So do we have enough data to start balancing gens now?

This happened even before the new MMR... I've seen a lot of threads about it. Nothing has really changed much in the games I play. Killers tunnel, camp and slug while survivors try to quickly do gens.

Yep, I've arrived at the same place. 😡

I hope they slow them down so much that they will be forced to change the regular animation to a slow motion animation.

Imagine perks like Surge while working on a slow motion gen… Dwight’s face while the gen (in slow motion) blows up in his face:

Gen speed can remain the same but imo they should give killer Ruin and BBQ as base kit to discourage camping. Ruin also give survivors another objective to do. In return, survivors should get DS and Kindred as base kit to discourage tunneling and for better coordination.

There are ways to do that without going into death garden stupid levels of gameplay. But in its current form 12 hooks and 24 (32 for nemesis) health states, including that end game buffer is a 5 minute match and sometimes shorter. Survivors have to purposefully throw the match in order for you to get all of those hooks, and all of those health states. And if they don't throw you have to proxy camp and tunnel to knock off time on gens and reduce the amount of people available by 1. And even then by the time you've tunneled that 1 person out of the game 3 gens have gone by, survivors don't even need a 4th man by that point, 1 guy can continue to lead chases while those last 2 gens get swept up.

Either way it goes, this game is inherently not balanced nor is it ready for some SBMM level of competitive play. If its busted out of the gate then there is no point in an SBMM. Its like watching Evolve 2 matches. It turned into a joke because the 4 hunters were buffed to the moon while the monster saw no real changes since the game started. But since those players only make up a small amount of the player base I guess theres no point to making sure that side of the game functions properly right?

"What exactly do you do with that many disgusting structures linked together exactly?"

Play spirit and nurse....pretty much those 2 are the only ones who can consistently hard counter them. With pinhead and Blight being a close second. I mean its not a solution because you have to pretty much ignore 80% of the rest of the killer roster but.....yeah....

No,BHVR always lgnore killers welfare and harmful to killers bugs.

Example: The game have unidirectional pullet,but BHVR only close saloon .

Killer such as tool to sevice survs.

That is not what I'm saying. What I am saying is that even if you are a good killer player, good survivors will still beat you more often than you will beat them because the game balance is focused on average skill level play. You have to rely on the survivor making mistakes you can capitalize on to do well as killer. Your skill alone cannot win you the game. I have no issue with people being good at survivor or good survivors winning. The issue I and many other people that care about this game at higher skill level is that a good killer player on the majority of the playable killers can't compete against 4 good survivors. Even when the killer player is good with a S tier killer, the survivors are still favored if they are good.

You cut the loop short as you would with clown, except pinhead can shoot his power through walls.

If they're gonna add boon totems then yes the gens should take longer. But gen times in general should be taking longer and maybe even reworking prove thy self.

Alrighty, im pretty sure i land a lot of front facing chains especially in jungle gyms and it makes no difference, but ill test this out more thoroughly over the next few days. Thanks =]

Meh, they won't do nothing for a while. Some killers are still broken like nurse for example, I still get this random bug where my blink cancels its self and then I am stuck in a blinking faze but I didn't go anywhere or when she is stunned by a pallet it makes an annoying noise and pinhead still has that lunge bug thing so oh and sometimes when survivors are on the ground, they have a sound bug so you can't hear where they've crawled off to if you leave them on the floor. They do things for killers very very slowly... slower than what you think

Survivors are balanced around Ds and Dh. I bet if devs turn off those perks for a week lot's of so called good survivors will fall off.

Those two perks guarantee result (escape, free vault etc) no matter are u actually good or potato with 1 hour experience.

Edit. While game should be skill vs skill not perk vs skill.

My pig isn't the problem. She doesn't have to run any of that stuff at all. But sure enough, getting comfortable with that amount of stall shows. In games where you're running around as nemesis, or trapper, or plague (even though her power can cut the average 24 health states needed in half) or Demogorgon, or most of the rest of the M1 only killer roster that can't insta across the map, your time per game goes down SIGNIFICANTLY! I've said for years now, that every killer in this game needs to perform to the level of pigs average game time, with the exception of the zoomy cast. Who for obvious reasons, don't need more

The thing is, with the existence of gen slow down perks in general, its an open letter stating "Yes...we know this is a feature of the game that you would probably want slowed down" Its the same logic they use behind some of these so called pink add ons like pinheads pink, or ruleset no 2. Stuff that ideally should be base kit, but for whatever reason its not base kit, and theres always some convoluted reason tossed up in the air about why it shouldn't be base kit.....when by default the fact that those things even exists prooves that the devs acknowledge that those things would make the killer better, they just choose NOT to have them there to hamstring players. Just like when we asked for a universal fix to totems and what we got was some perks instead. Matter fact that almost seems like their sole agenda when balancing the game.

Instead of taking the time to actually sit down and go over the fundamentals of the game even if it means full on reworks, they skip that, and just throw a bandaid fix on it via a perk. And now we have situations where those same perks are seen as mandatory on Killer AAAND SURVIVOR....

Like its not just killer with the slow down perks, Survivors are running just as many meta/mandatory nonsense as the killers are. DS, mandatory, BT, mandatory. All because the devs refuse to address 2 simple concepts within the games overall view that lead to the behaviors that cause you to even need BT or DS to begin with, which are camping and tunneling. Its inherently flawed. So much so that even little kids who make roblox games and clones of some of their favorite games have systems in place to prevent these things because they are aware that that will happen.

So if little 14 year olds can address camping, tunneling, and whatever else can be found in an asymmetric game, what excuse do studios full of grown adults have?

If the devs turned off DH survivors would just use Sprint Burst instead. And if DS was turned off most matches would just be the killer tunnelling one person to death ASAP, which frankly sounds as fun as taking sandpaper to the groin.

But sure, I’d be down for that experiment if they also turned off Ruin and Pop to test the skill of killers as well.

The problem is that all 4 survivors just being good has way too much of an impact. Good teamwork should be rewarded but it shouldn't put all the killers besides 3-4 in an unwinnable situation as often as it does, especially if the killer player is also just as skilled.

Its not that good survivor teamwork should mean little, is that right now it swings things way too much to the point the killer's skill doesn't matter much.

Survivors have their win condition and killers have theirs, they should even out. Right now the only thing that really matters is how good the survivors are, the killers don't really have too much agency and that's a problem.

If you have a good killer you should need better than good teamwork on the survivors side to beat them, so great teamwork. If its just good it should be a even split.

Good vs good should be a 2k, but right now its a 0-1k. Not asking for a 4k, just balanced. Survivor skill should not matter more than killer skill, they should be equal. Teamwork is part of that skillset. So if 1 of your teammates is a 2 and the killer is a 4, then yeah the killer should win.

If the 4 survivors don't equal the killer than the survivors shouldn't win.

Teamwork is part the win condition, yes poor teamwork should mean they lose because they failed the win condition. That's the nature of any team based game. But the question now is what's the killers win condition if the survivors are good? Because as it stands its: Hope the survivors are bad.

We shouldn't balance around bad teams, then its just unfair playing killer because even if you're at the same level as your opponents you'll still lose way more often.

If you don't like chancing on your teammates, then a team based game with random people isn't what you should be doing, you should get a group or play the solo role (killer). Also SBMM should be fixing that issue. We shouldn't throw balance concerns out the window because a teammate might be bad.

Balance wise, 4 survivors = 1 killer is how it should be since that's 1 team = 1 team, that's balanced. Not 1 team > 1 team, that unbalanced.

Asking for your teammates to not weigh you down in a team based game is asking for imbalance. You are not equal to the killer, you are 1/4 of the killer and so are your teammates. That's how it should be at least. I don't think we should be aiming for imbalance.

You would think that it's simple for BHVR to make these changes

Killer skill does matter, but it doesn't matter anywhere near as much as the survivors. As I already said, it doesn't matter much. I didn't say it doesn't matter at all.

You're changing it from equal experience to Good vs Great/skilled and Middling vs Experienced. I never said a significantly better killer will get a 0k, so there's no reason for you to think that. I specifically said "good vs good" when I brought up the 0-1k point. Equal skill levels.

An equally skilled killer to the survivors is at a very big disadvantage in the vast majority of cases, that's a problem. Not a better killer. If both sides are equal than the match should be equal, but its not, its survivor favored as we know.

In terms of changes, buff killers and/or nerf other aspects like objective time (such as introducing a second objective or something as simple as gen time increase ect.), not outright nerfing "teamwork". You can give the survivors baseline communication via call out wheel or w.e. as a QOL buffs for solo, but the power when survivors do have a clue of what to do is too high. That's now without changes to help them out even more.

If equal vs equal means the survivors win a lot more often, then there's a balance problem that needs to be addressed. Killers need to be buffed or survivors need to be nerfed.

Survivors need to be generally balanced out in some way because right now they're too strong. If you fundamentally disagree then you're disagreeing that the game should be balanced, and then yeah there's no point discussing it because you want unbalanced survivor favored games and I want balanced ones.