Alright, I'm On-Board With A NOED Change.

Noed alone is fine.

But if Killers use Noed with 3 slow down & tunnel/camp. Its likely 3-4k everymatch. Having Noed basekit just to remove "surprise", Killer would put 4th slow down.

There is no way to change Noed to prevent tunnel/camp into Noed for 2k. If still keep the perk has Exposed effect. Rancor is also a problem like Noed because of this way of playing.

I've always been ambivalent about NOED. It's a strong perk, but risky like all hexes. Can easily be handled with teamwork, decimates solo queue, moderately predictable based on killer performance (or frosty eyes, lol), and most controversial for its ability to allow a failing killer to grab several kills at the end of the game. Only gives value for a short period of the game, but has massive snowball potential and pairs devastatingly well with other endgame perks. Never used it myself and don't especially care what happens to it.

I think boons may have shaken things up, though. We've all heard "just do bones." Cleansing totems used to be a net win for the team (or at least a neutral, unless another player brought Inner Strength and couldn't get any), but now the counterplay to NOED prevents the team from using boons, which unlike Inner Strength incentivizes leaving as many up as possible. I think it's less clear for teams how to proceed, especially solos who don't know what their teammates brought and can't know whether they should be getting rid of bones for a perk that may not exist or preserving bones for perks that may not exist.

It would be nice if we had something to look up for this info.

The thing is, NOED alone isn't a broken perk, it's just unfair. But if you stack it with slowdown perks such as Corrupt, Ruin, and PGTW, it's sure as hell broken.

If I had to change it I'd probably make it so that the survivors are cursed by NOED at the start of the trial, and in order to deactivate it they must destroy every single dull totem on the map. After the 5th gen gets done, each time the killer downs a survivor destroys a dull totem. If at least one dull totem stays on the map, the killer has the opportunity to kill the survivor (which takes time to do). If the killer downs a survivor with only one dull totem on the map the killer no longer gains the ability to kill the survivors because NOED gets deactivated. Survivors have the ability to destroy the NOED totems to remove NOED after the 5th gen is done.

Oh yeah and the killer will have the ability to see how many totems are on the map at any time since it will have a token indicator.

This change would essentially turn the perk into a slowdown perk and a risk-reward (if they don't do bones and instead manage to escape) perk for the survivors. Now that they know that they should do the bones, it'd actually punish survivors for not doing all bones, and still help them if they cleanse a few. I'm not sure if this change would make NOED overpowered, but as a downside to it, the perk would be hindered by other hex perks since hex totems won't count as NOED tokens. Boon totems will also not count as NOED totems.

See, I disagree. The Core Issue seems to be that survivors want a chance to counter it (they've had all match to counter it but that's a different argument ;D). Finding out that the killer has NOED without having to get hit gives them exactly that. They have the opportunity now to determine what they should do about the NOED if they didn't spend the time during the game to clear out dem bones.

I for one am completely fine with noed. I feel that any change could make it worse.

There are many things to do with noed.

1) cleanse/bless the totems beforehand. There are already so many perks for this.

2) open the door(s) and escape.

3) find the totem and cleanse it.

These are all viable actions. There have been many games where my noed was hunted down and cleansed. And others that the survivors just left.

What Noed really needs is some indication it's in play. Even if it's in the killer's favour.

For example making it when a survivor cleanses a dull totem they scream and reveal their location. While technically a buff it will remove the surprise factor from the survivors.

That and something to prevent hard campers to get use out of it. Maybe making the expose effect not trigger on survivors who cleansed a dull totem or getting atleast 3 hooks or something

Um, yes. Yes I am saying you have time.

I'm getting the hint we play in completely different MMR.

Ignoring that, you know all that time survivors spend sitting in the exit gate after it's open? To either get hit out, or teabag and what-have-you? The time you spend doing that should be put into doing dulls. So once again, yes. You have time as a solo survivor to do totems or insure others are if it bothers them that much.

People don't NOT do dulls because "the game is so close" they don't do it because people would rather slam gens. Most good survivors either don't do ALL of them, or do none and just remember where they are in case NOED is in play at the end. In nearly all high MMR games the only way a killer gets away with a 3 or 4k is greed on the survivors side. That's the only way. You greed for altruistic plays, or slamming gens even near a killer.

I not trying to be rude but anecdotally yes, you may run into games where this is the case. It's DBD after all. But lets math this out. Lets say a match is like idk 10 minutes. For this example lets say everyone escaped. That 10 minutes is 40 minutes of collective time because multiple things can be done at once...there are multiple survivors remember. You meaning to tell me within this 40 minutes a collective time you cant use 1 minute and 10 seconds to do all the totems? Lets say 2 minutes for travel time too.

Now lets say everyone died right, and you did all the the dulls. Did you really hurt your team? Lets say it's 10 minutes again. One person dies at 5 minutes, another at 7, another at 9, and you last at the 10 minutes. Well total time is ~30 minutes. So again I ask you, does 2 minutes really take that much time of the allotted time for the team in that match?

I never said you nor I was the "high MMR". Nor did I insinuate it. You reading way to deep or looking for something to derail to.

So why are you resorting to accusing me of being "low MMR"?

"nobody can prove anything like that and insinuating I'm bad isn't helping your argument"

Like I said, regardless, the math just says your wrong.

The only change to Noed i'd agree with is making minimal requirement of 5 hook states. This will solve the problematic thing of facecamping + Noed, which has no counter.

But until survivor meta of preemptive running, holding W, predropping pallets, using overload of second chance perks, gen rushing, until it changes, i dont want to see Noed nerfed. Its the only saving grace on m1 killers right now.

Okay what part of it? Your not even attempting to engage in a discussion. Your practically plugging your ears and saying "Blah blah blah, your wrong".

Being quick to try and derail because your looking to deep into what I say, or not engaging, is a weird way of looking for a convincing argument"

I did not miss your point, it was just a bad point. It takes 12 seconds to cleanse a dull totem. If all 4 people make the attempt, it is hardly noticeable. What is funny, bringing it up now, is that people are managing to find the time to bless totems multiple times, yet cleansing them is a hardship. NOED does not need to be changed simply because people do not want to put in the time to cleanse totems. NOED makes a risk vs reward situation. Take the time to cleanse totems, or potentially face NOED. Yes, they may not have NOED, but you should be assuming that they do, every game. And, as you said, more and more killers are. Killers have a similar situation with Hex perks. Maybe they will be on a nicely hidden totem, or maybe they will be out in the open right next to the first gen the survivors work on.