Boon totems aren’t OP
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Again, if the only way you track survivors is by scratchmarks, it is on you. If you can't pressure gens and get rid of boons with the natural flow of the match, it is on you. I don't know how else to really say this lol. This same thing happens in like every game. New thing gets added, people don't know how to face it, call it op, they get better and learn how to deal with it, it isn't op, new thing gets added etc. Like do you not ever see losses as possibly your fault? Sometimes it is healthy to see that it wasn't dirty SWF or genrushers and that you just didn't play the best and can improve because again, it is a pvp game.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on3 -
It is the fact the survivors DIDN'T get a huge advantage? Did you not play around the time of Sprint Burst that recovered while running? Or MoM on release? Old DS? Did you not play when infinites were a near constant in maps? A good team based new effect that requires you to leave your objective to activate it and that the killer can deal with fairly easily is not nearly as OP and broken as things used to be. Playing the killer means you are playing the harder role, it is that way in basically every asymmetrical game. Survivors have had loads of huge advantages in the past. Killers have had just as much. Moris on 1st hook. OmegaBlink Nurse. Spirit being broken for her entire release. Hell even the Huntress and huge hitboxes for a long time. Boons are an amazing healthy change compared to things they have done in the past, and they even made boons take longer to place on hexes. If you don't capitalize on all the time wasted by boons, that is quite literally on you. The saying of "Get Good" exists for a reason
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Something being broken in the past is not and never will be a defense for something being overpowered or unhealthy now. And it's quite telling that your only defense of boon totems as is boils down to whataboutism and 'git gud' (ad-hominum).
As they stand, they simply do not work within the DbD paradigm, as the time of one survivor and the time of the killer are not analogous.
They offer a significant reward for no risk and only the most minor of opportunity costs. And worse, unless survivors make a mistake and overcommit, the intended counterplay frequently turns out worse than simply leaving the thing up (the time spent locating the thing, trying to position yourself correctly to snuff it or discovering that this one can't actually be snuffed).
Mark my words though - if survivors don't get behind fixing this thing in a sane manner, it's going to get the MoM treatment and be nerfed to the point where you barely see it.
As myself and others have suggested:
- Fix the unsnuffable and janky totem spots (I'm seeing far too many survivors defend this with 'totems had uncleansable spots 2 years ago).
- Make it easier for killers to locate them (aura visibility within a small radius).
- Don't let the effect project through floors.
- Add a cooldown to them once snuffed.
As they stand, they allow coordinated groups to set up a 'safe zone' on demand that presents the killer with a lose/lose situation.
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Post edited by DangerScouse on2
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I don't think Boons are OP but they are strong... It's a team perk which I'm happy about
I think that a cooldown after the Boon gets snuffed is fair enough
I don't think the killer should see an aura of where the Boon totem is
But let's give Boons the benefit of the doubt and give them time to be used
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Survivors have always been able to "super" heal. Be it medkit, self-care, Better Together, etc etc. Heck, another survivor can heal you off hook for 16 seconds without using a single perk slot. You're acting like healing is a whole new thing that never happened before.
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Self care is not a "super heal". The fact is they can now do it without a med kit, without a teammate, and quicker then they ever could with self care
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If you look at it's usage, it really isn't being used that much for it just being the 2nd week of release and the usage is becoming less and less. If survivors aren't using it that much, it isn't OP.
I mean think about it, why waste a perk slot for something that any teammate can do for you in 16 seconds off hook.
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I am looking at it's usage. I'm seeing it in every game I play. Normally with at least 2 survivors running it.
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That statement is not entirely correct.
In your first chase your time is worth 3 times the survivors cause one isn't doing gens cause they are being chased.
After that it should be worth around twice on avarage cause survivors have to be in a cycle of being hooked, having to unhook and being chased.
If your time as killer is ever worth 4 times as much as a survivors outside of the first 10 seconds of a match you are doing something terribly wrong.
I only go for boons when i hear them. If i'm in a chase i remember where they were. And when a totem is reblessed 9/10 it's in the same spot and the survivor bassicly told me their location.
I have had zero issues with boons. Sure i have lost some matches cause of them. I have won matches i should have lost cause survivors dropped everything to relight them
They are strong. But nothing nearly as overwhelming as people here make them out to be. I would take boons over the meta before anyday.
If you want to talk about no counterplay the old meta was a lot worse. Some strategy's are working a lot better again now that some survivors have to drop some perks for the boons
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Its OP, tell me why that perk works again and again, and hexes no. Then as survivor you can see the aura (dont wasting time, just going to heal yourself)
Its unfair, the healing speed is ridiculuos, braindead as fk. If you play vs swf, basically you cant do anything as killer.
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😂 my my my
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what you are suggesting are flat things that killers can literally not do anything, and are nothing like boons lmao. You are acting like boons are a permanent base kit boost to all survivors that make them impossible to down and you can't do anything about when in reality they are a time sink for survivors that require them to leave their objective to do, and that killers can deal with relatively easily. This isn't the cry of an elitist, it is me telling you that the game was much worse, and that boons are a pretty healthy change compared to the past, hell compared to the past killer has never felt better to play. Again it really seems like you are the type to never blame a loss on yourself, and that you have to have an excuse for every loss that comes your way. The game was sure as hell not balanced before this patch, I mean as killer I have never played more stress-free because large key escapes are literally not a possibility anymore. BTW, CoH without medkits is still 16 seconds to heal, not a super fast heal, and again, if you can't track and chase without scratch marks that is literally a problem on your skill. That is ok, it is all about improving, but that is hard if you are so stubborn to change and improvement that at the sight of it you act like killer is impossible to play. It has never been better.
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It’s really not brain dead because a survivor has to go out of their way to find the totem and then bless it. It requires set up preparation, it’s not just “bless a random boon totem and profit” like you say it is.
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Please learn to use paragraphs.
Also, you don't know me so please don't profess to know "my type". I'm sorry to say that you make your whole point irrelevant with comments such as "there has never been a better time to play killer". That alone means I can't take you seriously. Sorry.
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If you think isnt op, one perk who provide self care with steroids FOR EVERYONE wasting 18sec, having 5 totems, you dont play as killer.
I play both sides, more survivor but 60% 40%. It's insanly strong, and when you play vs swf (as always), you are screwed
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well i dont really have an issue with circle of healing, its quite powerful but not op, my problem is actually shadowstep, they place it in the fun house or spots where it is difficult to chase...its a nightmare, and they just place it back if get rid of it
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You basically just told me you don't actually have an argument against me.
I gave you loads of evidence and you result to "I cant take that seriously".
Then don't take it seriously, get good or leave the game because the devs made it clear they are happy with boons.
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You provided zero evidence. Whereas I, on the other hand, am telling the evidence I have from the actual experience of playing the game as killer recently.
If you are finished with your superiority complex of insulting me and telling me to get good or quit the game, let's agree to disagree. If you don't wish to debate as an adult, best leave it as that.
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I can't say I a fan of them either. I don't play killer much but just doing it a little bit the other day showed me how boons make the game quite frustrating.
If you've got 3 people using the boons (which I have run into) it makes keeping them in check impossible. if all 4 players are using boons forget it.
Sure the boons don't stack, apparently but with 3 or 4 players able to set up 4 separate boons in different spots on the map. good luck.
Yes Killers cam rum a build entirely made out of hexes if they want where survivors only have the 2 boons it's still more powerful on the survivor side.
- killers get one totem per hex that set at random throughout the map. once they're destroyed they're gone for good.
- survivors can place a boon on any totem they find and can do it over and over again if they need too.
- hexes do one thing per hex.
- as others have said, the 2 boons do 4 things total and are active at the same time in up to 4 places if all players are using them.
- for cleansing and or blessing a totem survivors get points for doing so.
- for snuffing out boon totems killers get nothing but wasted time and a stomp animation.
So yes they are very powerful I wouldn't say OP. but I feel that there should be a consequence for killers finding and snuffing a boon totem that isn't just "Oh just set it up again." Killers can't reset hex totems. Undying is a hex in itself and it got nerfed to only work once.
This is coming from someone who plays far more survivor then killer
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As a killer main who believes they are OP, I enjoyed reading your post, and found your arguments considered and respectful. Unlike others on here. It has given me food for thought, so I appreciate your well written argument.
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I pretty much main survivor nowadays because playing killer sucks. I main Mikaela and run a healing/shadow step build and I think the combo is crazy powerful. 14 seconds to bless a dull totem isn't much at all and the fact that my scratch marks are hidden in the boon area is crazy powerful. I don't even know how you'd balance that. The healing helps a lot too, especially if you get someone else to heal you, but the lack of auras and scratch marks? I can't count the amount of chases I've won because of it.
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You didn't give evidence either, and you used awful examples to compare to boons, showing you really just don't understand how they work. You saying "Well me no like, me playing bad now 😡" was evidence that I not only consulted, but I gave a response and answer to.
It isn't a superiority complex. Just like me saying you probably make excuses for losses in-game, you are now making excuses for a discussion. I have only stated things that happen in-game and the solution of being able to pressure good and make use of the time wasted from boons as it is a great amount.
Since you count just saying how it has been going as "evidence" then fine.
Since the new patch has dropped, I decided to play mainly ghostface, a killer that besides the occasional instadown, is an m1 killer that relies on hit and run, a playstyle that said CoH should gut. It does really hurt the playstyle, but not horribly. My build consisted of Thrill, Lethal, Pop, and BBQ. Thrill is a great new perk for making blessing take longer.
I have yet to feel the need to think "wow, boons are op, im losing so much to it!" I have lost a handful of matches due to me playing fairly bad, but other than that, it hasnt super affected me. I saw Boon: shadowstep in about 3/4ths of my matches, and I only got confused by it twice on Coldwind, the same match. Circle of healing is really threatening and it was in about 90% of my matches, but everytime I heard the thunder, that meant one less survivor was working on a gen.
Overall, being able to track footstep sounds, blood that isn't hidden by shadowstep, and breathing if they didn't have iron will made shadowstep nearly a wasted perk slot. For circle of healing it was definitely effective, but I could keep track of gens better as kicking the boon took almost no time from me, and took survivors a good amount of time to keep resetting. It is a strong perk and it makes me happy to see something new in the game besides the same build every time, but there was never nothing I could do about it. Compared to my matches last patch, these new matches on average lasted about 2 minutes longer as well, really nice to see.
Good enough adult talk for you?
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We both have had different experiences clearly.
Like I said, since you wish to resort to insults and being rude, let's just agree to disagree ok.
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I agree, it's a boost to survivors that you can stop if you find it, but they can just set it up again. As I said in my other post Killers can't reset hex totems. it would feel better to me if the totem was destroyed if a killer found it just like survivors destroying a hex.
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Except it is? Dull totems are everywhere and survivors have perks to find every single one on the map via aura reading. You don't have to know what you're doing theres perks that do it for you....Theres no set up....you just do it, and 99% of the time the killer won't have enough time to react to it or bother dealing with the totems because they're too busy engaging in chases.
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They are op though. They were busted on PTB, and they're still busted now. Theres no need to inhale copium...take it at face value....its op as #########.
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I think this is a fair suggestion.
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Dude you're playing ghostface....of course boons are going to have a lesser effect on you you insta down people and are immune to half of their effects.....######### even...on top of that you don't even run hexes. You're not even playing the same game as most killers on the roster.
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Did you read my entire post? I explained a lot in there that even as a person who doesn't play killer as much I understand the frustration. I feel the term overpowered is thrown around too much on this forum that's why I'm reluctant to use it. If you read the entire thing you'd see I'm in favour of a change instead of focusing on one aspect.
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No I read the entire thing. I'm just saying in this case call it for what it is, its safe to say its OP. As the reasons you listed in a few of those examples was more than enough to call it out for being op. As you said, theres damn 2 perks per boon, killer hexes only have 1. You can reset them infinitely killer hexes can only exist once! ^ That right there is waaaaaaaaaay more than enough to call it what it is....OP...
It isn't like these things can just exist and you can use a better alternative....NO.....these things are THE alternative there are no better options.... Same way you could run an Eboni mori on a killer and just...flat out win....no question....theres no alternative old Eboni Moris were the NAIL in anyone facing thems coffin....PERIOD.
Mettle of man had the same issues, old DS had the same issues, and old Eboni Mori's had the same issues, and the old keys where you could just jump the whole team out of the match by mid game was also OP. These things aren't powerful because they have to make players adjust and change strategies that can throw off your game...no...because if that was the case there'd be no issue, you'd just adjust and counter effectively. You got the new DS right, you got Borrowed time...these perks don't have issues. You run them, the killer has to then go...ok #########...that guy has BT, after this hook save, I gotta swap targets <---This doesn't hurt the killer it just forces them to be snappy and focus and swap targets....if they can't do that then they lose. Current BT and DS aren't the same as boons. When you could bring old DS, old mettle of man, old eboni moris you effectively brought in a trump card that says F all game mechanics I win by default....you can't adjust, and if you do adjust you lose... So if you actually do play and strat against old DS, old MM, old Eboni Moris you're ######### cause even after you adjust you still lose..imagine that for a second. After countering something....YOU STILL LOSE?!?! <--then ######### was the point of the counter what was the point of adjusting your playstyle? Oh killer has an eboni mori I've been hooked once, next time I go down I'm dead....well....I may as well play safe and stay out of chases, but you can't hide forever cause someone needs to save the next person off the hook, so if you do that you're either going to die or the next person is going to die, so no matter how you twisted it by playing effectively YOU STILL LOSE!!!
Now I know people throw around overpowered a lot on these forums but that shouldn't take away from what it actually means. A lot of stuff gets called op when it clearly isn't. This isn't one of those instances where people are overreacting. This is as legit as mettle of man, old DS, Eboni Moris, and keys.
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In solo queue it isn't that OP while still strong, in SWF teams it is totally different magnitude of crazy. Just snuffing it out won't work, because they set it up where it means you are going out of your way to go there.
Literally one of them brings it and eliminates the hit and run playstyle and forces killers to follow through and that usually plays straight into their hands. They can spare one perk slot out of 16 and still run full meta with it.
I thankfully only seen this twice, but both times the game ends up in a spot where you camp, tunnel or lose.
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But that cost is only paid by one survivor and the other three get, for zero investment in time or perk slots, at least 2 free infinite perks. If the Boon survivor has both perks then the other three get a free infinite Distortion, Lucky Break & boosted self-care - so up to 9 more perks for the Survivor's side for the time it takes for 17.5% of a gen? That's a massive bargain!
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A very tiny area? Nearly a quarter of the map on some maps, not to mention covering multiple stories in places like Midwich & House of Pain. Wow, that's borderline delusional!
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That's fine. Have you played survivor against a killer with Devour Hope on an indoor map? It's ridiculous.
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I never thought I would agree wih sluzzy on a balance issue.
This feels wrong.
Defend your point
Plague or legion?
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Well that's very interesting whataboutism, but it has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Are you still maintaining that boon totems cover a very tiny area or have you conceded that this is not the case?
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If they aren't then let's make an infinite, non counterable hex totems too...it's just not fair that a survivor can activate two perks very strong (or more in the future) at the same time they destroy a perk of the killer and the killer cant do anything bout it cause guess what, if you take the time to deactivate it the surv can just put it again XD so the boon totems put the killer in the situation that he can't do anything bout it and he can't even bring the only one perk which can actually do something against gen rush in the process... If you can't see how problematic the boon totems in good survivors plus is a surv sided game rather you don't play killer at high level, you don't play killer at all or u are just in mediocre mmr in both sides like the 80% of the players and the basically the base of every change the game has
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This sounds like a case of Just do bones lol
survivors cant destroy ruin in 2 seconds
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So, tunnel the survivors? Isn't that super bad and mean though?
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I dont care, tunnel anyone with a vowel in their name if it makes you happy, idrc im a killer main myself.
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It's still tiny. It giving a little more advantage on an indoor map is no different than a killer hex perk on it.
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again not the same
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Shadowstep is extremely strong against Nurse but other than that I think they're fine. HOWEVER, putting out a totem should remove the ability to bless that totem for 1-2 minutes.
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The time to bless should go up with each reblessing. First time, standard length. Second time maybe it goes up 4 to 8 seconds, and then another 4 to 8 and so on until the bless time is so long that a survivor would be blessing for a minute plus to activate it again. I don't see why this would be unfair for the perks user, and I don't even know if this would stop the perks from being OP. It would also make the boon user think more about their placement since reblessing isn't as easy.
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You are right. Poor killers! They have it sooo hard, don't they? Get real. Killers always want to exaggerate things on here.
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Boon totems are broken as ######### on maps with multiple floors. They need to go on a massive cooldown when broken by the killer because otherwise it's not worth going out of your way to break them even if you know where they're at.
I genuinely hate boon totems. Feels like quality of games are worse because of them.
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I'd agree if most maps were indoors. Most maps are outdoors, so I don't really see a problem here. You can still see blood if they are injured as well.
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on a scale from pretzel to ocean,how salty would you say you are.😂😂😂
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