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Boon totems aren’t OP
I will admit that they are strong but I just don’t think they’re OP. I actually really like the gameplay around boons as it requires setup preparation and the survivor has to go out of their way to activate the perk. It’s also a new gameplay element which spices it up. Killers can also hear boons and it takes them just a second to break it. You will probably say that the survivor can put it back easily but they still have to spend time doing it.
I’ve felt like at least COH has a chance to be meta because of its nature in helping the whole team out which I’m honestly very glad to see because we need more variety in the meta. Maybe COH can be toned down a little where it decreases self healing speed but I think it’s honestly fine.
Comments
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Yes and no.
They aren't quite as broken as people say.
However, they do have a few problems.
- As it stands, it's not worth trying to snuff. Unless you know exactly where it is, and that position can actually be snuffed, you'll waste more time snuffing it than survivors will need to set up a new one.
- It's much harder to find totems as a killer than as a survivor. Either the visual needs to be more distinct, or we should see an aura if we are close.
- The 'snuff' box needs to be bigger. There are still too many spots where you can't access them, or have to position yourself weirdly to snuff.
- A snuffed totem should absolutely not be able to be reblessed.
- They probably should have a duration attached to them - say 120 seconds. Either that, or snuffing one should prevent another being summoned for a similar timeframe. The problem isn't their power - it's that snuffing is potentially a big time loss for the killer, while cleansing a totem is a much smaller loss, on top of being permanent.
- The effect should not project through floors in indoor maps. This makes it impossible to find and cleanse in a timely way.
Post edited by StarLost on41 -
Boons needs to be one time use only. That's only change i want.
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The boon snuffing is a problem but I don’t think it’s a design issue, it seems to be more of a hitbox issue. Hopefully they fix that because it can be annoying.
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I dont know i never gone out of my way to bless a totem. I spawn i have a totem 5 meter away of me with a gen its easy setup for me and my team. My teamate get 6 perk each that huge for them all that for a 14 second action that cant be remove from the game unless i die yeah this seems fair
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Honestly, the problem isn't that they are OP. The problem is that the intended counterplay to the perks just doesn't exist in a meaningful way since the totem you just snuffed out can be reblessed.
All I want is for boons to be risker than they currently are by making it so that a snuffed out a totem can't be reblessed for the rest of the trial.
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That might make them significantly worse tbh. Maybe one time uses on that specific totem could be alright.
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Med kits are arguably the best item in game. A heal can relieve massive amounts of a killers pressure. But thats just one item. If a lot of survivors want to heal they need to use up perks and items. Very powerful tactic to start with. Then there comes in CoH. 14 seconds and the team gets free medkits until the surv who placed it dies. The amount of traction a killer can lose with that is game-changing.
"But it takes time to do" 14 seconds is more than enough compensation for: Speedy af heals, infinite heals, not needing to find a surv to heal, medkit speed self care. The pressue you gain back is proportionately larger than the time you lose unless you play like a cinderblock with cataracts.
Shadowstep is also extremely annoying but somewhat tolerable, except in in door maps where consistent line of sight breaking can end a chase immediately with little to no tracking. Going out of your way to break a totem is time consuming in: Not using that time to chase/pressure a gen, finding the totem and breaking it. Killer time is 4X more valuable then Surv time.
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It will make them balanced. Currently u can abuse it and farm Altruism. With my change u need to think twice before setting up boons.
Game should be skill vs skill, not perk vs killer.
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Boons are broken. It requiring time to set up on a team consisting of four players is honestly very moot. What a tragedy! Oh no the efficiency! on a game notorious have no early game what will we ever do!???
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Not going to stop me from tunneling every boon user viciously.
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Infinitely reusable, team-wide buffs that also destroy hexes? The math doesn't check out.
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I'm definitely in favor of survivors' boons going on cooldown after they get snuffed. I wouldn't make it 120 seconds though; more like 60, because time spent blessing isn't time spent on gens. Snuffling a boon totem should definitely be more rewarding for the killer, but I wouldn't want to make the cooldown so long that survivors are encouraged to gen rush instead.
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My biggest problem with boons is Circle of Healing, and how it gives a Self-Care that's twice as fast as Self-Care to your entire team. I mean, giving everyone in the area "We'll Make It" is strong too, but I don't mind that effect myself.
If they reduced self-heal times from Circle of Healing to 32 seconds when it's granting you the ability, I'd be fine with the perk. You can give survivors the 16 second heal if they run Self-Care in conjunction with this perk by doubling the 0.5 efficiency of Self-Care though.
Until then, I don't think this perk can ever be considered fair.
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I mean look at it this way:
CoH takes 16 seconds to self heal, and Self-Care takes 32 seconds.
That's a 16 second difference between them, meaning as long as you're within 16 seconds of travel time from the boon, your entire team is getting a faster version of Self-Care regardless of where they are in the map.
However in 16 seconds you can run 64m (4m/s * 16s). Add on another 24m to account for the effective radius of the totem and that means that using CoH for self-healing instead of Self-Care is more efficient as long as you're, at most, 88m away from it.
Now, for reference, Empathy is a 64m and covers the entire map basically. 88m means that as long as the totem is up, it will almost assuredly ALWAYS be more time efficient to run and use it than Self-Care in whatever spot you're at.
Now imagine being a hit and run killer specifically who has to face everyone with super Self-Cares from a single persons perk.
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In addition to the above, killer time is much more valuable than survivor time. Expecting them to hunt down and break these potentially infinitely respawning totems that grant super versions of Self-Care to literally everyone is unrealistic and arguably impossible.
In that way, I think boons (or CoH in particular) are too oppressive right now.
Reduce the self-heal time so it's not just so blatantly overwhelmingly good to the point it overshadows dedicated self-healing perks by miles and distributes it to everyone for free and I think it'll be in a good spot.
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I dislike them simply for the style of gameplay they create. It's the, 'Take a hit and zoom to my safe space.' it's boring to constantly either have to drop chase to go cleanse their boon, or give up chase completely. I've had multiple matches where the match went on for 30 minutes because survivors would gen rush the first 4 gens, and then 3 gen themselves in an area with no totems. So they'd all try to come touch a gen, I'd smack them, they'd immediately run to their safe zone, heal real quick, then come back just to rinse and repeat. It's very boring.
Boons also are an indirect nerf to killers. Most people don't look at the indirect affects that buffs to the other side can make.
Most killers rely on snowballing and controlling the game through pressure once they've started snowballing. It's usually their only win condition. Boons break that snowball in the way mentioned above. I either have to drop pressure and not chase this person into their zone, or drop chase to break their boon, allowing the survivors to reset and go back to smashing gens. The only other option is continuing chase in that area, and having a very high chance of losing that survivor due to buggy sounds or no sounds at all if they're running iron will. At that point they still have their boon, the killer has lost any momentum they had, and the time it took to chase, and this was all down with very little skill involved.
It takes any control of pace that a killer might have had during the match, and gives it back to the survivors.
Because before, survivors were in control of the pace of the match, how fast gens got done, how long chases could last, things like that. But once a survivor made a mistake, the killer could punish that mistake and take control. Once you hooked that first survivor you could intercept the one coming for the save, start a chase with them and then a different survivor would have to stop doing gens to go get the save. And that's how you would start controlling the pace of the game by continuing to apply that pressure. And if you failed to keep the pressure up, and the survivors could reset, you've pretty much lost the game because now you have to start over.
With boons, they can interrupt that initial snowball and any chance you had at controlling the pace of the match. That's why it's unfun for killers right now, why so many complain and so many stopped playing. All almost all control has been given to survivors unless you run specific perks to deal with them. So they're either forced to run the same perks every match, or get steamrolled by the survivors. Shits boring af.
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Yes, CoH gives 4 survivors "Self-care" and "We'll make it". A single perk has 8 perks effect.
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so boons replace hex totems, you dont get it back when you snuff a boon... you cant break boons or totems in general and they have unlimited uses... seems balanced to me. ######### it.
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And survivors are suprised they see more tunneling...
That what happens when they use perk that is hard counter to hit&run and force commit on every chase.
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What? BHVR made survivor perks that are actually useful? No no no no, it's not how it works, it's OP and must be nerfed! NOED is fine, because survivors can just do bones, but boons must be gone, because, you know, it's different!
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most logical thing anyone can say about the issue.
here my problem which goes along with that, if you aren't playing someone with good map pressure you kind of have to camp someone. you aren't applying any pressure by injuring. which means you see nothing but the same 3-4 killers or you camp the last person/lose in general.
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Yeah, I kinda like Trickster, he is really good at camping.
I don't like Bubba, because survivors often don't even try to save...
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I kinda agree but mostly don't. I do think people are HEAVILY exaggerating when they say it's op, but I do think it's strong. Not to the point where I think it should be reworked but definitely nerfed. How It should be nerfed I don't know. Maybe they can make it so killer's can't snuff but rather destroy totems.
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I mean.. it is different. Before you call me a killer main, I am one but I do think that NOED is not a very fair perk, but you can't really bring the do bones argument for boons cause they can come back a literal infinite amount of times. Of course unrealistic but It is possible, Even old undying couldn't do that.
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Dropping a chase to snuff a boon = 1 minute lost. It's not because you need 3 seconds to snuff it that you have only lost 3 seconds. You have lost a chase, if it was a 50 seconds chase you basically lost 50 seconds...
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Let's add to this :
The totem is then more effective than self care at a radius of 88m, for the whole team.
Let's do the maths : area effectiveness = 24000 m2
Twice the size of the biggest maps...
I see boons like a different version of what devour hope could be : every 3 hooks (tokens), a dull totem becomes an hex; all survivors are exposed till the totem is cleansed. If 3 tokens are eraned before the hex totem is cleansed, once cleansed a new dull totem, if available, will become an hex, using the 3 stocked tokens.
I guess survivors would cry a lot with such an infinite Devour Hope perk. So why should there be an infinite fountain of youth on the map ? Sometimes there are even two boons...
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Oh come on, not this again. Killers tunnel regardless. Everytime when something on the Killers side is nerfed or when Survivors get something good (which happened exactly once since David King was released before Boons and was MoM) Killers go "Thats why we tunnel" or "Killers will have to tunnel more".
If you want to tunnel, do so, but dont claim you do it because of Boon-Perks. Killers always tunnel, but stretch themselves a lot to find a justification for it.
This would make them super-weak. You would have to buff their effects to insane levels to justify it. Or, make it that the Killer needs more times to snuff it and can be interrupted. Both does not sound good to me.
@Topic:
I totally agree. Shadowstep is also not used anymore from what I have seen, it was only a thing while Circle of Healing was disabled (probably to test out the new mechanic or for the achievement where you have to bless Hexes). Boons are strong, and I have to admit, strong enough to let Survivors change their builds.
But this is good and I would also not say that they are OP. I dont see them often, but when I see them, I always think that if they are nerfed, this person will just replace it with another Meta-Perk and it would be the same build as always. I also did not have any problem to play against them, the only thing what happened was that I had to cleanse 1 Shadow-Step mid-chase, because it was messing me up. A better Killer probably would not have needed that, but this is the only time where I thought it was a bit annoying.
The only change somewhat needed is that Boons only affect the Trial on a horizontal basis, not vertically. E.g. if you have a Boon on the upper floor of The Game that only the upper floor benefits from it and not the lower floor. Because their range is technically doubled on multi-floor Maps or it makes it uncomfortable to snuff out for the Killer on Maps like Asylum if you bless a Totem in the Main Building.
But this is the only thing I would change.
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They currently give u infinite medkits and 4 much stronger self cares in one slot. Only 1 slot per team and so big value.
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Every boon is 17,5% of a generator not being done. At the bare minimun.
That's the cost of the relighting. People need to stop pretending it is free.
If a boon gets snuffed and reblessed 5+ times and the survivors were still able to escaped even with all that extra time spend then you most likely would have lost if survivors used other meta perks too. Just faster.
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blame your fellow bubba killers, its pretty much assumed that every bubba will camp, so bubbas can expect to be gen rushed. unless of course they don't care and just want to ruin a player's game lmao
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Hopefully you return to Planet Earth sometime soon.
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1 perk slot that gives a strength level equivalent to selfcare + botany to 4 players, so 1 perk slot with the power of 8 perk slots is not OP. Oh damn, i guess the bar for "OP" has gone very up these days for survivor perks.
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They aren't OP at all. I'm even seeing a lot of survivors switching back to their old meta perks. Killers really have no reason to complain.
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Ok let me summarize all the issues and counter arguments I have seen in this post and others similar to this one.......AHEM....
"Boons are OP They need to be nerfed."
I personally don't think that Boons on their own but when used with other perks or items they become OP. For example Shadow Step combined with Iron Will makes it very difficult to find anyone if you lose line of sight for too long. CoH is just OP with any Medkit or perk that also increases healing speed.
So Boons don't need to be nerfed just adjusted to make them more balanced, one thing that could easily fix it is....
A. Making Boon perks have a set amount of tokens for example CoH will have 3 tokens at the start of the match and Shadow Step have 3 tokens at the start of the Map.
B. Boons can have a time limit that they can stay active on any single Totem.....for example Boons stay active on totems for 120s before going out.
C. Only one Boon can be active on a single Totem at a time.
Just these three simple ideas could help balance Boons that are out now and the 16 or so new ones that are supposed to come out.
"Boons are weaker than Hexs so their not OP"
This statement is wrong on so many levels....
1. If Boons are weaker than Hexs, then why do they snuff out Hexs by just blessing them and if they can snuff them out why don't Hexs come back after the blessing is gone since Hexs are so much more powerful than Boons.
2. Once Hexs are gone they cant be relit, unlike Booms which can be relit or moved to another totem when ever the survivor wants to move it.
"Oh Killers just need to do bones because Boons are easy to see and hear."
Killers cant "Do Bones" because Killers cant destroy totems like survivors can....all they can do is snuff them out and hope the survivors don't want to re bless it. Also as It has been said above Killers don't have time on their side, from the start of the match they have to find survivors try to knock them down and hook them.....from my experience with the current state of the game 1-2 gens will be completed before your first hook. So Killers don't have time to waste searching around for Blue Totems to Snuff out.
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when killers snuff the totem than that totem should be destroyed.
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I feel like this could make them bad. They'd need some other buffs.
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no it would make them high risk/reward like hexes.
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I don't care about what others do and why.
I can talk only for myself and it was rare for me to tunnel before, but I do it against CoH, because I don't see any other way. I have tried, didn't work.
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Not really... The killer can snuff the totem in like 1 or 2 seconds and it's pretty loud as well (not to mention it takes a lot of time to set it up as survivor). It would definitely need some other buffs somewhere.
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thats where we disagree. They’re already too strong.
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Finally someone who agrees with me. I strongly believe that boons are not overpowered and are really fun to play with/against. The time wasted by survivors putting them into the game reduces generator progress, plus they are really easy to find and remove as killer. So I'd say they're pretty strong but fair.
As for the meta comment, I also agree. I like that there may be some variety in the meta now. It'll make matches more varied and interesting.
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I'm fine with boons but totems need to break if they have been snuffed. Boon totem reach overpowered status when they are placed in spots that well hidden and strong looping spots, basically in zones with multiple floors or indoor maps (have fun dealing with that one totem that is hidden in a box)
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this is a satire survivor main post for sure
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Gann mains spirit....
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okay then switch it to delusional
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I completely disagree. It's almost not even worth the time it takes setting these things up because of fast they are to destroy and super easy to hear. You're usually better off spending that time on a gen.
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The problem is they are not worth wasting the time JUST to "temporarily delay" the Boon. Let Killers DESTROY the damn Totems.
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If you want to shake up the meta, you need perks stronger than everything else. A healing meta would be nice for a change
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unless you're on in indoor map where it's super difficult for killers to find the totem. Like it's such a waste of time so I don't even bother so I just tunnel out that survivor.
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They need to be 1 time use. And not be spammed. That or bring back old undying it would only be fair.
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Damn I guess it’s wrong of me to have an opinion. I’m sorry for not pleasing you by being completely bias towards killer.
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I think everyone is beginning to realize boon totems aren't game breaking. Especially now that boon totems are getting seen less and less and meta perks are popping back up in survivor builds.
It was basically "Lucky Break" all over again. Luckily Killers have cried wolf one to many times and the Developers actually kept an eye on them instead of insta-nerfing them like they did "Lucky Break".
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