The devs need to address swf
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Seems like prime Legion gameplay
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i personally disagree, i had much more fun and less stress in soloQ even when i get killed, than playing killer, and one fo the reasons i'm a main killer, is because i find survivor to be extremely boring.
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In the game designed around solo players. Disgusting
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Yeah, the devs also need to address how disgusting face camping is and yet here we are.
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Oh no, someone complains about SWF.
Anyway.
Maybe you should stop blaming your losses on SWFs and actually improve at the game. So many Killer players are not good at the game but just blame their losses on basically EVERYTHING instead of just trying to get better.
SWF does not make regular Survivors to tournament squads. But obviously you will state that you are playing at high MMR and face tournament squads on a regular basis. It is impressive how many Killers seem to be gods at the game, but still struggle...
Threads like this are digusting and tiresome.
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people play with friends cause they can not take the uneficciency and extremely poor decision making from solo q players. is understandable.
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The SWF system is not the problem, 3rd party communication software like Discord is
solution? Buff solo survivor to a level similar to SWF that have communication software and then buff killers from there
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They won't do anything. The money they make from people playing with friends far exceeds the money they lose by killers not wanting to play against them.
If you want my advice, learn the high B, A and S tier killers. Everything below that is pointless to play, because they rely too much on lack of coordination and survivors being potatoes. So basically stay with Nurse, Blight, Spirit, Plague, Oni, Hag, Twins, Huntress, Slinger, Pyramid, Bubba, Artist. Legion is like bottom 3 atm so the fact you got three hooks against a good survivor is something to celebrate.
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I completely agree on the 2nd objective thing, at some point we all reach the point where we really don't want to sit on generators game after game if the killer wont chase us.
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I agree with you at least in spirit.
On one hand, it gives just too many advantages and has created an impossible balance situation.
On the other hand, I'm completely sympathetic to people preferring to play with their pals.
The big problem is that there's a really easy fix, which I and others have suggested on occasion.
When people queue up as an SWF, assign them a temporary artificial MMR inflation. Say, 1.1x for a 2man, 1.3x for a 3man and 1.6x for a 4man. This means that they'll be put against a more skilled opponent to compensate, which removes that problem of stompcomps in less skilled MMRs.
That said, here's a trick I've discovered to deal with toxic SWFs.
Turn your killer to face a wall, then go and get a coffee. Enjoy your coffee. Watch an episode of Futurama. Then come back to the game.
You're wasting more time of theirs than they are of yours.
Must...not...make...obvious...dirty...joke...
The issue isn't 'playing with friends'. That's totally understandable.
The problem is just how much of an advantage SWF confers and how that makes it impossible to balance a game in a manner that's fun for both solos, SWFs and killers. One always loses out and it sucks.
See my first post. It's what a lot of other games do, and it tends to work decently well.
Having 1 toxic survivor in your match and having 4 toxic survivors coordinating to make your life miserable are very different things.
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shoot, I didn't see that at all. oops.
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Every suggestion I ever see for this amounts to "basically give survivors perfect wallhacks". And then what? Wallhacks for killers?
Turn the game into absolutely nothing but Scooby Doo simulator so everyone who gets off on running in circles is satisfied but nobody else is?
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Haha no worries mate, I'm just 50 going on 8 sometimes.
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No one is asking for wallhacks when they say to buff solo q..........................
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"When people queue up as an SWF, assign them a temporary artificial MMR inflation. Say, 1.1x for a 2man, 1.3x for a 3man and 1.6x for a 4man. This means that they'll be put against a more skilled opponent to compensate, which removes that problem of stompcomps in less skilled MMRs"
This actually doesn't not solve the problem.
If hypothetically the game was balanced from the top down like most other games do, then yes, this would work. The problem is it's not. You can inflate their mmr as much as you want and it's completely irrelevant. The best killers against the best survivors and the killers are getting dumpstered almost every time.
This would make the game slightly more enjoyable in low-mid mmr range I would agree but it does nothing for high mmr matches which is where the real issue of swf is, not at low-mid mmr.
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Given how many suggestions are such things as "make kindred basekit", "if one player can see a killer, give them an aura", or similar? People definitely are.
The alternative suggestion always appears to be "######### everyone who can't or won't use voice comms".
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Kindred is not wallhacks.
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It's not quite that extreme. I've seen Otz and Tofu go up against some very strong SWFs and win.
The major issue, to my mind, is people with lower MMRs queueing up and stomping with coordinated offerings and perks. That, and TTV types who get people to smurf down their MMRs to bring down the group rating, to allow them to crush and be nasty to people easier. But that's really hard to fix. Maybe some sort of detection for people who suicide/AFK/DC in extreme amounts.
By tweaking the matchmaker to accomodate SWFs, it would at least resolve a lot of the issues.
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"It's not quite that extreme. I've seen Otz and Tofu go up against some very strong SWFs and win."
Survivors can make mistakes enough for you to win some games, you are still reliant on their mistakes to win though. That doesn't mean the main point is incorrect. Otz and Tofu would both agree with the statements I've made about balance and I believe they've both stated it multiple times on their streams as well.
"The major issue, to my mind, is people with lower MMRs queueing up and stomping with coordinated offerings and perks. That, and TTV types who get people to smurf down their MMRs to bring down the group rating, to allow them to crush and be nasty to people easier. But that's really hard to fix. Maybe some sort of detection for people who suicide/AFK/DC in extreme amounts."
Interesting. I don't actually think this is the main issue or even one of the top few issues. I'd be down for a detector as you are referencing though.
The games main balance issues and swf issues are at high mmr because afterall if you are at low mmr you could have played better to win. IE you have control over the matches outcome. At high mmr you can play perfectly as killer and still lose quite easily. That's a balance issue and out of your control.
"By tweaking the matchmaker to accomodate SWFs, it would at least resolve a lot of the issues."
I'm not against this change as I agree it would improve low-mid mmr. This change just does nothing to improve any of the issues of balance or swf at high mmr which is mainly what I'm talking about and generally what I think people are referring to when we talk about swf issues in the forums.
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This is pathetic. Find something else to play at this point.
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Shrug
I think that at the absolutely highest levels of skill, the game revolves more around which map you get and which killer you choose than anything else. There aren't all that many big mistakes being made.
For example, getting a strong SWF on DDS, Midwich, Wrecker's or Hawkins (RIP) is somewhat manageable. I've certainly trounced some pretty decent 4mans on these, even one or two obvious smurfcomps.
A strong SWF on Haddonfield, Mother's, Cowshed, RPD, Blood Lodge, Badham or GH can be almost unbeatable.
So, so many killer woes could be fixed by simply adjusting the 6-8 maps that are so absurdly survivor favored at high levels of play.
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I agree maps are the main issue as well as basically losing at killer selection with how weak many are. SWF just pushes it all even further over the top.
I can't see them ever fixing the maps if they had that exact opportunity when they were doing the reworks and did nothing.
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I think that my MMR suggestion is the most likely.
I agree that if BHVR wanted to fix the ridiculous maps (many of which have pseudo-infinites) they would have done that by now.
They are unlikely ever to do anything else to SWF, they've been quite adamant that they don't want people to 'feel like they are being punished for playing with friends'. All we can hope for is some system-end change to ensure better games.
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I guess I'm just still waiting for a good idea that fixes SWF at high mmr.
Basically all the ideas I've heard have their own issues. The least downsides I've heard was the split ranked/unranked queue. I think it's issues would be somewhat manageable.
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I think you'd have the Starcraft 2 problem.
A lot of folks don't really care about rank and score. They just want to win.
What happened in SC2 when they split the queues is that crazy good people would reach the rank they want in the ranked ladder, then let it freeze there while they went and wreaked havoc in Unranked. It also made smurfing ridiculously easy, as you could smurf your rank down in Unranked and roflstomp all the newbies you wanted while being top of the ladder in Ranked.
It...honestly sort of killed the game.
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I agree with this -- I think that, if queuing up with a group gave you higher MMR to compensate for the advantages you got from doing that, it would be a lot more fair.
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MMR + boons have made me not want to play killer anymore, especially against a swf
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Honestly the biggest issue is the game was never designed around swf. Originally swf wasnt even an option in the game. Due to that and there never being a balance made to account for swf, we are left with this as the state of the game.
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Well would that be fixed if your rank had a slow degrade so you couldn't just freeze it there and you had to actively keep it there for rewards?
We could also still have the mmr system in the unranked to prevent the smurfs from coming over and being destructive to casuals.
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High level Swfs are insane casual ones aren’t but I see what you mean they have communication over you so they know if they left that survivor. I’m just saying from my experience in high level play from killer and survivor point of view. Killer is more stressful🤷🏻♂️ Solo Qing as a survivor is a challenge too but not as bad as what killers get 🤷🏻♂️
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Because that works so good doesn't it? Daily complains about toxicity. People get triggered of this behaviour, you can't argue against it. It has to be done something about it.
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It's not our job to provide the answer to this. It's the devs job to fix it. We pay for the product, they get rich off it, they owe the dedicated players and spenders a good game. If mass quantities of killer mains are having the same problem over a course of years.... shame on them for not speaking speaking out on it.
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Okay, but why is what killer you choose even a problemwith performance? All killers should stand a reasonable chance at the game seeing they exist as an option to play as in the first place. Lol
Again, if you get punished bc you pick a killer that can't keep up as well as others who's fault is that?
Remember they offer buyable attire for Legion. You can spend your money on him just the same as others. So therefore I should have a equal opportunity at winning as all the others.
It's messed up to think that your gameplay depends on who you play as when you can buy attire for them all. Sheds a light on how messed up the game is.
Survivors are all just skins. They feel, and play the same. Killers tho? Nope.
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Imagine having friends to play together a game.
Unlike the killer mains.
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Yes they do wait longer. I've been there myself. That's why it baffles me to think they still behave the way they do in game after having to wait so long to find matches.
Bagging, taunts, chain blinding, hostage holding until forced out the gate, end game chat trash talking weither they win or lose the match the killers are still called horrible names.
Why does chat exist? Ever think about it? What is there to gain having the opportunity to talk to each other at the end anyway? I don't care to speak to you guys most of the time. It's hardly friendly. It exists to add insult to injury for sadistic sore winners or sore losers.
Not everyone does that, but from my experience I get way more hate than GG statically speaking to the point I ignore the chat most of the time unless someone goes out their way to be nice.
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I'm a ttv but in my games theres a simple rule. No toxicity. If i see any from any of my friends they are banned from my games.
I play a killer as well and i will never allow anyone i play with to be toxic towards the killer EVEN if the killer is toxic. We say GG and we move along.
I do agree going against SWFS is painful and usually ends up having few to no hooks. I think this needs to be addressed there is a big problem.
When i play killer i dodge lobbies where everyone loads in at the same time or has 4 flashlights. Still i get BMers and loopers and trashtalkers.
SoloQ doesnt mean bad players you find them from there too. This game is just broken right now and i do hope they fix it. Being killer is not fun and im playing less and less killer nowdays because i burn out after few matches.
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Or fix the game I spent and continue to spend my money on. I think the devs wouldn't like your comment. They don't want us playing something else now do they? Nor do we or we would.
We love this game, we want longevity. I just wanna be able to not feel so weak in matches winning or losing. It's not unreasonable to want to feel like a power role as the killer.
As of now, you can physically feel how weak you are. That needs to change.
I think alot of killers would agree we dont care about 4k games as much as hooks, and feeling like we were a chore to go against. Games are so much more fun when you feel like you are making them work for that escape.
Alot of times, I feel like I'm struggling to keep up, and am hopeless to put up a real fight in these swf groups.
If swf wasn't common. I wouldn't care. But like I stated in my original post, I'm dealing with this at least 1 out of 3 games these days. Ttv doesn't help either. These guys wanna put on a show, so what better way than to bully the killer? Mob rule. I see it all the time. It's gross.
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Then you are a decent person. I've seen many streamers that do that as well. Spooksnjukes, rapidmain, hybridpanda, do that. That behavior should be the standard. It's just a game, move on.
Unfortunately, more people don't than do. We appreciate when survivors tip their hats to the killers after a stomping, and it's players like you that keep killers chins up after awful games.
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“Lmao just take it man it’s just a game” you clearly didn’t understand his entire point. Playing with friends is more than fine, he’s not saying people shouldn’t be able to. The problem is the game isn’t balanced around 4 people being able to communicate. You must be brain dead to take what you just said seriously.
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Are you one of the strange people who has ttv in their username?
I always bolt at the sight of that. Advertising public humiliation to me in a SWF lobby? I'll just go take more time waiting for a game, thanks...
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Sometimes. Sometimes not. Depends on my mood.
I dont humiliate anyone. I'm the person that will tell survivor who is being an ass towards a killer to shut up. I'm sorry if you have dodged my lobby i try to be a decent human being and my friends are awesome people too. Also we are crappy survivors so you'd kill us very easily :D
Edit: I suck at typing it seems..
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The last time I stuck around a lobby with TTV in the name, they accused me of cheating because they didn't understand how Plaything worked, and later on I got curious and they didn't even have a twitch channel.
People confuse me.
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You'll meet a lot of ttvs who also blame killers for streamsniping. Thats something that really annoyes me because most of the times killers dont have the luxury to watch your gameplay + do their own work. Sure i've had few killers that really did streamsnipe but hell if thats how they want to win more power to them.
People take this game too seriously and sadly they dont care how badly they might hurt others with their words
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Just need to remove the possibility to repeat perks, then the game is fair.
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It's a problem because killer balance is what it is. Many killers are objectively much weaker than others and will struggle against 4 good survivors regardless of solo or SWF. I think people should play whoever they want, but they should adjust expectations accordingly.
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Here is the rundown on objective facts.
- Yes, SWF is overpowered.
- Yes, solo queue is easy as well (to get a good amount of BP and not derank)
- Yes, killers are in no way challenging to play against aside from certain builds (which still isn't that hard)
- No, there is NO EASY FIX to ANY of these points.
The problem is trying to balance SWF. And the fact of the matter is you can't without affecting Solo and Killers. No one will play the game if they can't play with their friends, but no one will play the game if killers steamroll everything too. The core concept of the game did NOT take into account communication with SWF. And let's say the player base is equally distributed between survivors and killers, that means 80% of the playerbase is survivor.
Regardless of how good a game is, making a multiplayer asymmetrical VS. game will only ever lead to an imbalance of power.
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Dead by Daylight ISN'T balanced for SWF, so this post isn't a strawman. Think about what you're saying.
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If SWF is nerfed, then killers have got to be nerfed all across the board. You have Blight that is an auto-win against anything less than a 4 man sweat team. Spirit, Nurse, and don't forget Huntress with 5 quick uncounterable hatchets.
Bird Lady that is coming that will totally annihilate all solos at every loop with birds. The devs have already addressed SWF by tremendously buffing killers all across the board. And nerfing survivors constantly and making maps killer sided.
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nice to see there are apparently only four killers and that counts as "nerfs across the board"
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I’ll agree with one thing you said.
Reddit and killer players on the forums have one thing in common. They complain ALOT.
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