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Why do people genuinely want nurse nerfed?
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Valid points. Thanks.
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Except she doesn't?
She just requires a different approach that exploits her weaknesses - bad awareness, which means your goal is to constantly break LoS with her and have her miss her blinks, thus winning you and your team more time. If you constantly make her lose you, she's either forced to go after someone else, meaning you can do gens now or look for you, wasting more and more time, until an average nurse chase evens with the average chase of most other killers.
If anything, Nurse is one of those killers who don't get much stronger with the flow of the game as pallets - the finite resource, isn't her cryptonite. You always have the main counters of the nurse at your disposal, meaning you can more or less effectively run her both in early and in endgame, which is also something to keep in mind.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalposts
Stop talking. If you actually read the post, you'd realize the following:
Nurse hook stage average: 8.28
Blight hook state average: 9.55
Go learn what you're talking about before you post more blatant misinformation. It's a waste of everyone's time to have to sort through wrong drivel.
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Could you please let me know what is wrong with Nurse, given the outcome of this recent match? Even if I told you the last guy died messing around end game?
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I always love reading this kind of threads and seeing the same people who complained about survivor perks say "because they dont want to adapt/get better/whatever". Ironic.
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Hypocrisy is the lesser bad between that and blatantly objectively wrong claims at least.
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Doing the math on it now and cant tell if they are using the k as a hook state or not but the fact that nurse gets used more than the blight already shows that the nurse is better. so you stop talking since you dont know how to do simple brain calculations. never met a nurse main throw out so much "information" they didnt even understand its really bad to just throw up posts you dont understand. The best part is when he said they had no restrictions and were the best players in the world and they still were getting curb stomped in points to the nurse. The restricted ones are much worse since nurse doesn't even need perks to be good.
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Again, just a difference in experience and opinion. I never found her too difficult to play.
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Which is why the Nurse did worse in both hook states and overall kill rates than the Blight. You actively detract from the conversation by spewing blatant lies, just stop.
Also, you would realize every single 4K is a 12 hook stage kill if you bothered reading at all whatsoever, because you'd see there are 8 total 4Ks across all killers, and 8 total 12 hook stage matches (which can literally only be a 4K). And every single non-4K has the number of hook stages written.
Just stop. You are an active detriment to factual discussion.
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well, good for you, but it doesn't mean that she is not easy to pick up or master as some people claim.
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She can ignore everything survivors can do. Her power literally goes through walls and closes distance, especially with the range addons. And am I wrong for perks being held back because of nurse? Why shouldn't a perk such as lethal pursuer last up to 30 seconds if nurse holding it back isn't the case?
Breaking LOS does not work nearly as good against a good nurse player than the average one. And if she is using range, or recharge addons then your efforts are even less effective.
I am not saying any survivor should be able to run a killer for 5 gens at all. I just hate playing against nurse players who are good because it feels like playing against something that I can do very little about. And if they use addons it makes me feel like my efforts are almost meaningless. In a good nurse game there is no fun, it is just you running around corners hoping the nurse messes up.
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I dont have a problem with nurse, but then again, I also did not have a problem with old dead hard and I mostly play pig and freddy.
Just find it odd that when survivors on here complain about something they need to adapt, but when killers complain they don't have to adapt, whatever they're complaining about it's the problem.
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Seemingly overnight the whataboutism surrounding Nurse discussions has changed from whatabout Dead Hard to whatabout SWF lol. No one tries to discuss Nurse anymore. It's just a whataboutism about how she needs to be absolutely busted for X reasons and Y being a problem...
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Then why do I, a hopelessly average survivor, constantly face these good nurses?
Perhaps what makes a ‘good’ nurse is a far lower bar to reach than what makes a survivor ‘good’.
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if thats the case im going to do the math now. Also if you knew how to get an average you would know that the less a killer is used it helps increase their average if they have good games. You still are proving my point that nurse got used more so you have no idea what your talking about. The blight was used around 33% less than the nurse shows right there why top tier players choose her. Also they way they set up the table is very sloppy 10 hooks with 2k and saying its 10 hooks total then going and saying 4k and assuming itrs 12 hooks is stupid you can get a 4k with just 4 hooks. If thats the case then 2k is 6 hooks plus the 7 hooks they say equals 13 which is more than 12 see how that can get a bit muddled did you even watch the tournament and write down the same numbers or are you just going by what someone said? If so I have an ocean front property in Colorado you might want to buy. this also dosent show how much each hook or kill was worth also like you said this is one tournament now go pull up some more or is this the only data you go by one example lol. blight has 1 more hook state and got played 33% less so if they you cant even tell what the outcome would be if you used the same games played what if he got 3 hooks what if he got 4 what if he got more 4k's you cant use evidence that isnt evidence its like giving someone 100 times to run a fast lap time then giving someone else 33. Nurse main + soon to be nerfed = Sad SUZUKR the game is in such a bad state they will 100% nerf her just to get people to come back.
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She isn't easy to just pick up and roll with. But people do indeed overestimate her floor. When you get stomped day-in day-out by Nurses, you learn her vicariously, meaning you learn her by playing against her or seeing others play her. You learn killers by getting outplayed by them. What works against you as a competent survivor will more often than not work against others. You can learn a killer by playing against them often. It's why Huntress' floor is a lot higher than people realize. She's the most played killer. If you play Huntress, you have to perform well because the survivors you are facing have faced countless other Huntress's just like you. Nurse is similar. She's the fifth most-played killer from recent stats. In MMR, she's the most attractive killer at higher levels. When you're constantly facing good Nurses, you're learning her kit, what works and what doesn't, what pain points are the best to pressure. For that reason, it's a lot easier for an experienced player to pick up Nurse and perform than it was three years ago.
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Okay let me get this clear immediately. The notion she holds back anything is an unverified rumor and myth that has no basis in any actual developer statement. With that out of the way:
- If Nurse was a problem for literally holding back killers/perks as a whole, BHVR would change her (eg, nerf/rework/making basic M2/etc)
- If Nurse's synergy was such a problem, they would not release nor buff perks that have by far the best synergy on her even more than any other killer
- Buffs: Hex: Retribution (aura duration), No Way Out (blocked duration), Lethal Pursuer (PTB aura duration, mid-chapter bonus effect of +2s to all auras including itself), Dead Man's Switch (not needing obsession), Gift of Pain/Thanatophobia/Coulrophobia/Call of Brine/Eruption/Jolt/Knock Out (slowdowns buffed in midchapter), Monstrous Shrine, Pentimento (PTB used to have gen slowdown on second effect instead of first), etc.
- Releases: No Way Out, Lethal Pursuer, Starstruck, Scourge Hook: Pain Resonance, Scourge Hook: Floods of Rage, Deadlock, Call of Brine, Darkness Revealed, Hex: Pentimento, Grim Embrace, Hex: Plaything, Hex: Undying, etc.
First of all, confirmation bias. Even evolutionarily, humans will remember negative experiences better than positive experiences. And average/neutral experiences even less so. Because if you don't remember real bad things, you might literally die. It is a given your worst matches will be the most memorable.
Second of all, Nurse is a fairly common pick (4th highest at one of the most recent checks). So you will be facing her decently commonly. Factor that in with said confirmation bias of meh matches having nothing to remember and even good matches being less memorable than the really bad ones.
Third of all, the unavoidable problem of matchmaking in ANY game, is that the number of good and extremely good players is fairly small, compared to the rest. Now, what happens when they look for a queue? Ideally, they'd get an even-skill match. Except... there's not enough players of said skill level actually on in the first place at the same time on the same region in the same ratio (1:4). So, what option does the game have? (A) Make queues take literal hours while it waits for people of even skill to eventually show up. Or, (B) match them with worse players they will undoubtedly beat, but make queues quicker.
Fourth of all, people tend to overrate how good their opponents are when they lose. Most people frankly, do not know how to play versus Nurse. The difference between someone who does and doesn't is very distinctly noticeable because of how they will play and respond and mindgame (or the lack thereof). What you might think is a "good" Nurse might just be an average or okay Nurse that you or your team doesn't actually know how to play against properly. Imagine matching a lobby of survivors against a Hag, but they've almost never ever faced her so they won't know what to do properly against her (dismantling her web from the start so she never ever gets the web set up in the first place). So, inevitably, the Hag will make her death web trap, and probably slaughter the survivors. The Hag wasn't amazing. It's just the survivors didn't play it correctly at all. It is the same for Nurse.
Which is why Blight stomped almost every game he did appear. L + doesn't read + spreads misinformation. Playing less games doesn’t guarantee they do well. They could just do bad those few games. There were still enough games to get a meaningful sample. Please just stop. You are actively detracting from the conversation.
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there are many reasons, maybe the MMR system isn't working right, maybe you and your team don't try to win enough and fool around, maybe you simply make a common mistake the turns the game over, maybe that better player is just climbing up the mmr ladder and you got in his way or maybe you are just not as good as you think
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Here I think this person summed it up best
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Are you acting like this on purpose or do you not realize the irony of replying with that to a thread about ONE OF THOSE THREE KILLERS? This is unironically embarrassing.
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Some people might want to try to play Nurse on PS4 or console. Let me know how it goes.
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Okay and what's this gotta do with anything? Lol.
"Actually I got a 4-man escape against Nurse, so she's actually fine." -the person with a nurse pfp. Who I totally do not think is biased at all. *wink*
To repeat what I said: That doesn't magically change what's wrong with nurse.
I could just as easily go into a game against a Pig, throw it, show she 4k'd and say "So, as you can see here this Pig just got a 4k. Clearly she needs nerfed." But knowing BHVR they'd actually nerf pig.
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No I'm saying its not enough info to make a valid argument like I said he has 33% less usage so how do you even get a valid comparison lol man your slow. You have no leg to stand on here since your a nurse main and you have bias.
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You never answered what is wrong with Nurse; instead, you judge me simply based on my forum avatar, rather than factual evidence? Not that I expect anything less from someone who complains about one of the most balanced killers in the game.
Ok. Conversation over.
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match starts. Nurse has Lethal Pursuer and double range. She hits a survivor within 5 seconds of the match starting. Survivor has absolutely nothing to work with as they just spawned in the map. They go down, infectious fright reveals another survivor. Game is basically over 10 seconds into the match. No other killer, not even Blight with double speed, can do this. Honestly its mostly range addons at this point. They are so absurdly busted and the fact that a moderator said its intentional to working like that blows my mind
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Yeah, exactly, range addons.
That's probably the only thing about Nurse that needs to be nerfed, because they make her counterplay irrelevant, as the delay between choosing the "end location" of a blink and actually getting there decreases drastically, which greatly reduces the window in which survivor can react and adjust their movement pattern.
Although even in your scenario this is idealistic situation for Nurse. Survivor who is revealed might be able to pull off something to delay being hit&downed, they might have spawned separated, etc. Although it would indeed be much harder against range addons, but not utterly impossible.
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of course its an idealistic scenario, the point is that even with ideal conditions that should never ever be possible
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In this 4v1 game, survivors want to be able to 1v1 every single killer. The dream being that a single survivor evades a killer for the entire length of the match and is never downed or hooked even once just by doing the same exact thing, no matter who the killer is. Any killer who defeats this dream is clearly unbalanced and unfair for Johnny Tryhard.
And considering how the balance team consistently nerfs killer powers, it seems like they want that too.
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I don't think you should use that as an argument, because you can make up a lot of idealistic scenarios, but none of which would be close to the reality or would consider different variables that affect them and you can twist it in your favour as much as you want. That's the same kind of argument as "good nurse" or "4 man deathsquad". It is an abstract concept that pretty much never collides with reality and can be interchangeable depending on the interpretation.
I could say thing like
Doing a single gen takes 80(90) seconds. A full chase against a good survivor can easily last up to 70-80 seconds if they don't make mistakes, predrop, blah-blah... By the time you get your first hook (1/12 of the objective), survivors get 3/5 of theirs.
And then twist it to push whatever killerbiased point I want, starting from saying that "tunneling/camping/slugging shouldn't be nerfed or patched because this" to "gentimes need to be increased to 2 minutes".
I would purposely ignore time it takes for survivors to reach the gen, that they can do other things, the killer might win the chase faster or switch targets or that the game doesn't end after 3 gens being done and so on, but even if you bring those up, I can just discard them by saying that I'm only describing a situation with ideal conditions and it shouldn't be possible regardless.
The ideal conditions are called ideal because they are ideal and beyond the reach of a player in field conditions, thus shouldn't be a valid argument, at least not as a standalone one.
I don't say this invalidates your point about range addons specifically, I agree with it, but I want to make that part clear.
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Eh the problem is the scenario I described is not even close to the same level of unrealistic as "4 man comp squad" in a match. Its extremely common for a Nurse with double range to get a hit within 5-10 seconds of the match starting with Lethal Pursuer.
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The thing about Nurse is the matches are rarely enjoyable. You either get the baby Nurse who you absolutely stomp, or the God tier one that slugs the entire team in two minutes. She can be alot of fun to face when you get that rare intermediate Nurse. The match where it's a good back and forth. Unfortunately those games are exceedingly rare.
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Idk, to me it sounds identical.
It's not that uncommon for survivors to spread and pop at least a few gens before the first chase ends, you know that better than me. If anything, my scenario occurs even more often that Lethal Pursuer double range Nurse, because it affects pretty much all killers that are not minmaxed to be strong in 1v1
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Her potential is way too high in my opinion. Just tweak her range addons and make blink attack into special attack and don't let her gain huge value from perks like Flood of Rage, Starstruck. I have no words to say if someone insists "Nurse requires skill" "She has counterplays" "Nurse is a hard killer" or else. Just tune her maximum potential, that's all I ask.
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Her maximum potential is the same one as of survivors though that can be unbeatable potentially. Look at those SWF 4 man winstreaks that are playing as optimised as possible.
Making her blink attack a special attack wouldn't really be fair, considering that is the only kind of attack she has, meaning she won't be able to benefit from perks like that at all, that is a bad design.
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Nobody wants nurse to be nerfed, she needs to be deleted at all
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- I don't know why you think this is relevant. Difficulty doesn't justify being overpowered, but she isn't overpowered in the first place. Also just because a content creator said something doesn't mean they're right lol.
- I already think range and three blink add-ons are busted. Basically no one is justifying omegablink either. Range needs a change.
- A player with literally thousands of hours and actually quite good at the game is far beyond what the average DBD player is already. There is a difference between someone like that and an actual beginner picking up the same killer. The former already knows enough of the game to work with fundamental knowledge. The latter does not.
- Nurse's skill ceiling is proportionate to the survivors' skill at facing Nurse, because as survivors get better at mindgaming Nurse, the Nurse also has to get better at mindgaming them back. And so on, into super high levels of play. Mindgaming is the ceiling, not the blinking itself. You could master blinking to a specific location accurately relatively fast. But making sure said specific location is the one to get the hit on the survivor is what's going to take time to get a grasp of, especially against survivors who are very good at facing a Nurse. You could practice nailing perfect aim Huntress shots at a window or pallet or across the map, but just because you know how to aim where to send it doesn't mean that's where the survivor will be. Where you'll have to blink changes throughout the match on the fly because of said mindgaming.
- A good player will win the majority of their games regardless of their picks because they will just outright be better than what MMR matches them against on average. This is why good players win almost every game regardless of survivor build or killer.
- Hillbilly is difficult because he is just straight up clunky and underwhelming, and doesn't give out the same effort you have to put in. Also the ability is auto-screwed on some tiles/maps regardless of skill just off of sheer tile/map RNG. As in, his ability is difficult because it demands way more effort than you're going to get rewarded for. That is not a good thing lmao.
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Actual gameplay disagrees. Extremely good Nurses against equally good survivors averages out to even results (uneven maps not withstanding). And if she had no counterplay, she would not get destroyed by survivors that are better than the killer player. MMR not being able to match an even-skill lobby together for the small percentage of the playerbase that is absurdly good is not a balance problem, nor is this even a DBD-specific thing. And people will overrate whatever they lose against as well as remember it more vividly (confirmation bias of negative versus positive/neutral).
She bypasses some standards and substitutes them with others.
Last point is subjective, so can't comment.
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in number 2 you just admitted she needs to be nerfed sooo i guess thanks for agreeing with what you have been disagreeing about.
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Dunno why you're consistently wasting your keystrokes on someone that is obviously posting in bad faith in literally every topic they post in.
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They can't handle the truth.
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Correct, range and three blinks add-ons should be reworked. Everything else is perfectly fine and balanced.
Boredom.
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Hey Scott! I appreciate a lot of your content and viewpoints. But I’m going to have to ask how Nurse with Lethal is any more.. well, lethal, than a handful of other killers. Blight and Hillbilly can also be on top of survivors fairly quickly. Someone else earlier in the thread brought up Sadako and her teleporting power. Huntress can land early hatchets this way as well. It seems you’re unfairly targeting Nurse‘s synergy with this perk. Let’s also not forget that not every Nurse runs Lethal, and survivors have their own perks to counter it. Object of Obsession can be used to see a killer with Lethal right back at the start of the trial - and throughout it as the obsession. Distortion completely negates Lethal’s primary effect, and is getting buffed to be usable an infinite number of times with the upcoming patch. You could go an entire match blocking every single aura reading perk in a killer’s build now. That is crazy to me, as a survivor main.
You additionally bring up Infectious Fright, which also has a complete counter - Calm Spirit. That’s as arguably as bad to some people as current Iron Will with Stridor and/or Spirit. And if you don’t have Calm Spirit, you can also play smart and split up, or stealth into a locker if you suspect a nearby teammate is about to go down.
And even if a Nurse were able to get a first hit in 5-10 seconds as you suggest, does not in anyway mean the chase or game are over. The survivor could still have an exhaustion perk, and/or other perks that assist in chase.
Thoughts?
Edit: typo.
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Don't tell me you think nurse is the most balanced killer.
You can say that she has counters and whatnot, that's cool, but she is NOT the most balanced killer.
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I said it (well, “one of the most balanced”), and I meant it. 😃
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Frustration via lack of understanding, mostly. I'm still waiting to run into a string of absolutely uncounterable god tier Nurses that are such a problem yet apparently don't exist on my continent or queue up for public matches. Any day now. I ran into 2 Nurses yesterday and ran one of them for 3 gens when they had double range.
Players get weird when they think of Nurse. They imagine a perfect Nurse player and completely average survivors who can't be expected to improve. But if you talk to them about an M1 killer, that M1 killer will be completely average and those survivors will be absolutely perfect. The goal posts are all over the place when Nurse is brought up.
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don`t break the narrative of nurse haters.
good points though, I agree with them
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Like were all saying she needs to be nerfed. lol.
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Stage 1. Denial
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Pro tip: Adding evidence to a supposed claim makes it meaningful.
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