NOED is really bad game design

@Slayer said:
thebluesusui said:

@PiiFree said:

The Killer is playing with 3 perks thoughout the whole match until all gens are powered and you fail to cleanse 5 totems in the meantime? Mhm.

this.

how much more you need vs one single perk ? how much counter play adrenaline got?

like none? and 4 can have it in 1 game, you hook one with it ? still get it after save.

16 perks vs 4 is bullshit argument and i wont even explain why. If 4 survivors took adrenaline only one is going to get good use of it and in 99% times hes going to get downed before he will be able to escape.

Yeah that doesn't matter. That one person mid chase is the only relevant person at that point and they get a free out. I don't have an issue with Adrenaline as it's just another perk and having good perks is good for the game. Having a library of impotent perks is tedium. That said it gets tiring listening to survivors harp on about ANY good perk a killer has that is anything more than useless fodder that won't stop them from walking out the gate. BBQC as example.

@JanTheMan said:
Tucking_Friggered said:

Tell ya what, you can remove NOED if you remove SWF. Fair trade? No? Then go cry in a corner and git gud. Not a soul hear wants to listen to you whinge. It's not like we get to watch you stamp your feet and scream all we have are words to read.

Noed doesn't counter Swf as we established (actually the opposite), so your argument makes no sense, all Noed does is hurt solos...

No, SWF hurts solos. Until it is removed from ranked strong perks that own them must exist to give killers a chance at dealing with a group. No perk is a hard counter to SWF but certain perks make dealing with SWF possible and certainly more than impossible. NOED can down one of the SWF at the right time causing a butterfly effect that would not be possible otherwise.

@HavelmomDaS1 said:
Boss said:

I actually liked facing NOED as Survivor and never liked running it as Killer. (Though the reason for that isn't exclusive to NOED.)

Too bad you feel like it's unfair, but one aspect i liked about DbD is that the match gets more dangerous as time goes on. (C'mon Fire Up, do something pls.)

Lmao sure you like to go down at the end because of NOED, no matter how good you played and how undeserved it was for the killer
Everyone who played a single competitive pvp game before which was pretty good balanced will see the flaws of designing noed 

Deserved, lol. You deserve nothing until you make it out of the exit gate. Sweet, sweet, entitlement. Frankly, you don't deserve two hits to go down. Play stealthy or die. You don't deserve three hooks, play stealthy, wiggle free, or die. You don't deserve a heartbeat. Stay aware or die. Etc, etc. You have some nerve telling killers what they deserve.

@The_Crusader said:
MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:

Man this all makes no sense, this all just seems like because you got killed by a user killer noed and wanted it to be change in a way so that it is in your favor not ours, and actually, most things you wanted are in your favor, no body else.

Honestly, if your gonna complain about any hex totems, expect people to say "just find it and get rid of it" It really doesn't matter if you tell people not to say that they will stay say it, besides, any killer perks that give favor to the killer mid game or end games were made to be hex perks because they are powerful but have a big weakness to them, which is getting cleansed.     And if you find the totem and you are down by the killer, the killer is gonna remember that you know where it is, and they will make sure you don't try to get rid of it, that is their job, the worst thing you can do is trying and trying to get back on it right after you are unhook because then then the killer will think you went right back on it, of course they are not gonna like it if they see you on their totem.     And really if you are just cleansing totems to get rid of a possible noed then expect to be found and chase cause not only the killer most likely found you first, but it is natural for us killer to go after anyone that we see first and if you are the first to be seen by the killer, then expect to be chase not "oh hey killer im just cleansing a non hex totem so don't chase me plz"     And I will always say this to anyone who complains about solo being harder, well, that's kinda the point of the game and what the game SHOULD have been, swf should have never been made, at the most just have it to where they don't rank up or get anything special out of it, I don't mind playing against swf lobby's, its just only when I do give a care is when they can speck to each other and have all the information they need. The main point of this game was to give players who play survivors a feel of not being able to speck cause in the realm of the entity, make any sounds and killers will find you, you have to rely on hand gestures and knowing what the other survivors want you to do and all in all, it comes down to survival of the fittest, especially when it comes to end games, but that is on your choice to make it be like that or not, even if their is noed, you have to make the choice whether you will leave everyone to die and complain about how you couldn't save anyone and the killer got "free kills" NOT because there was noed, not because the killer used a noob perk, not because noed is a bad perk in general, but because you decide not to deal with it and give a bad excuse later on or make it not the survival of the fittest and be a player and go find the totem and get rid of it and then after that, go save them.    And you should really know how many totems are there in total for every game, which is five of course, so if you have cleansed 4 totems, then you should know by that, that there is one more left, not "UGH is there one more or not?"    Complaining that noed does not activate till the end, will of course not because it's an END game perk, and answer me this, if allowing the hex perk noed to lit up before hand, before the end game comes, then what's the point of bringing that perk if probably 90% of the time, a survivor will find it and cleanse it? it won't even have a chance for the perk to activate, and then it becomes a wasted perk.    SWF is SWF and SOLO is SOLO, we don't need a "feature" from swf (It is not a feature because if it was, then it should be something within the game, not outside of it)               And here is something to think about, when survivor mains or just survivors in general play a lot of swf and not solo, but the moment they do play solo, they go from being good to trash (Or slightly bad), why? well that's exactly why, they went from something they are used to, to something they are not.         So, answer me this as well, if you do play a ton of swf and then switch to solo, why should you or someone complain about having less benefits when you don't have the higher ground? But you know that you are playing a mode where you can't rely on your friends? And you or someone (most likey) haven't build up skills to play solo? Because you been mostly relying only on your friends?       And this is a fact, you have said it and other people have said it before "When playing solo finding all totems is hard, but not for 3 or 4 mans swf" If dead by daylight had it to where it is only play with your friends and their is no solo, then there would be little to no complaints about noed, but since that's not the case, there is, but only because survivor mains or survivors who rely on friends but then play solo and have a hard time going solo because they are use to relying on their friends is where most of their problems come from, they want a swf "element" implanted into solo, the rest, is because they get killed via killer using noed and they just hate it of how it works.  

but really.....you could have said one simple fix to noed instead of complaining about it, and it is really one easy simple fix, and all you have to do is just be skilled and wait.

And you want the game in your favour. Everybody knows NOED is OP, you want that endgame crutch. That big safety net so you don't walk away empty handed.

I mean look how much you complain about SWF. Well suck it up because THAT is how the game was meant to be - fun, and there's nothing fun than playing with people you know.

Seeing how many totems have been done is a quality of life upgrade. It's ridiculous that you expect peiple to play without it. Solo should be harder? Well fine by your logic solo players should lose all aura reading too because hey, its harder and more immersive!

  When did I ever say I want it in my *favor? All I have been saying is how everything you want is just not right at all and it give in more favor into the survivors more then anything, cause here is the thing, if one side of the party get some sort of buff, then the other side needs a small buff as well, even though this game sometimes does not do that, it should be like that. More then anything, its already in my favor, not asking for more favor (don't twist that around)
  And I didn't complain about SWF in general, I complained about implementing a certain "element" into the solo gameplay, and there is a difference between a game being fun and a game being fun for all *people, and on your point of view, it is only fun because you are winning without trying, you go into solo and your not having fun because your are losing and having to try. And the "There's nothing more fun then playing with people" is debatable, if that was the case, then everyone should be having fun playing swf right? No, there are some players out there that don't have fun playing with swf because they don't like how it give them an advantage without even trying, there are even streamers who have fun playing solo because they have skills and it gives them the thrill to survive and seek out information by your own eyes, it gives them that feel. And saying that, that hows the game was meant to be, tells a lot about you, you can go talk to Mathieu and it would be a different answer, the only reason why swf is even a thing is not because the game "was meant to be like that" It was more of what the people wanted and an option.
   btw if everybody knows that noed is op, then you should have everyone agreeing with you right? No, and that is almost every mistake I see from people that try to argue with that "Oh everyone knows that (insert something "everyone knows")" And when someone points out clearly that they are wrong and here whys, the next thing they say is "Because this and that and people don't want to this and that" It just shows the maturity of that person and the amount of excuses that can come out of their mouth. This is like saying Iridescent Head is op, but hey, just be able to dodge and outsmart the huntress and you will be fine, and she is limited to 1 or 3 hatches, this is like saying Judith's Tombstone and Fragrant Tuft Of Hair is op, but hey, just don't feed him and rush those gens.
    Also why do you assume I used noed? And yes you did assume "you want that endgame crutch. That big safety net so you don't walk away empty handed." I could be someone who does not use noed but knows that it is not op because of how it is a hex perk and it can be destroyed easily, and why also do you assume that I never get kills until noed comes in? I could have 1 or 2 kills already and the last two or one kills could be if they manage to get the gates powered with very few survivors left.
    And when did I ever, ever, ever ever say that solo should be harder? Please show me where I said that solo should be harder, I would loved to see where you got that, and don't quote "And I will always say this to anyone who complains about solo being harder" If you don't read and understand what I meant when I said that, you will look more stupid, and just to save my brain from having to explain later on, what I mean by that is that, swf is easier for people because they can get so much information in a quick second and by days later on, they will get used to it, but the moment they go from that to playing solo, it feels harder because they are used to playing with someone and getting information every second. So please, show me where I said I wanted solo to be harder then it already is.
    Here's the thing, being able to know how many totems are left is really not an upgrade, more of something so that you can be more lazy at, if you already know that there are exactly 5 totems (because that's how many their are, it never changes) Then theirs your upgrade, and if your gonna ask "Well if several totems are already broken, how am I suppose to know how many are left?" If you know how many totems their are and if your going around and you see broken totems, count down from that number and there you go....really not that hard. Having that upgrade will make no difference at all cause, if it tells you how many their are left, good for you.....but it doesn't tell you where the rest are at right? And it won't tell where the ones are broken right? So by then, when your looking around, you will most likely be passing by totems that are already broken, but you already know that some have been broken, so by that, you just wasted your time finding an already cleansed totem, so then by that, what's the point of having a counter if it doesn't tell you where the rest are at and where the ones have been broken?
    And it's funny how you didn't answer the questions I ask, so I assuming you dodge them, more or so didn't put effort into your counter argument because all in all, its just looked like and sounded like you just complained about what I said and completely stereotype me and use that, and it feels like you didn't even read half of what I said or understood half of what I said.   

@Nickenzie said:

@Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:

Also, that's another thing, for something to be fun, it needs to be balanced, you simply said just to have fun, nothing about balance.

i.e when you brought up the swf being fun and the game ONLY being fun when playing with friends.

SWF aren't always a commando unit. @Vietfox plays with his friends drunk just so he can chill out, ya know?

Tbh i'm usually drunk when playing solo as well, and still NOED is not an issue to me. Those who claim that X perk is broken it's because they want ez wins instead of looking for a way to deal with it.
Everyone knows i play more as a survivor than as a killer, and yet i think NOED is fine.

@Vietfox
I'm starting to think NOED is fine, but I really don't like how the perk destroys solo survivors while SWF can take it down in a breeze. This needs to be changed, make NOED equally as strong for both groups of survivors.

@The_Crusader said:
The thing is, everybody knows that if a killer seems really bad, they're definitely going to have NOED.

Likewise if you go against a killer that'd playing well, theres a chance they won't have it.

The fact that this stays true to high rank proves that it's carrying some killers. Its there to make sure every killer can climb the ranks and feel good. You can use skill or the devs can hold your hand.

Why bother putting in the effort to win the hard way when you can just throw on NOED, Remember Me and Bloodwarden and cheese the ending?

The more you talk the more amusing you become. Everyone knows there are only high ranked survivors because of SWF. Without that hard carry 99.9% of the people would never make it past 5.

@Tucking_Friggered said:

@The_Crusader said:
The thing is, everybody knows that if a killer seems really bad, they're definitely going to have NOED.

Likewise if you go against a killer that'd playing well, theres a chance they won't have it.

The fact that this stays true to high rank proves that it's carrying some killers. Its there to make sure every killer can climb the ranks and feel good. You can use skill or the devs can hold your hand.

Why bother putting in the effort to win the hard way when you can just throw on NOED, Remember Me and Bloodwarden and cheese the ending?

The more you talk the more amusing you become. Everyone knows there are only high ranked survivors because of SWF. Without that hard carry 99.9% of the people would never make it past 5.

@Nickenzie said:

That's right, the perk is strong against solo survivors and weak against SWF. The perk needs to be strong for both survivor groups, namely, solo survivors and SWF. You see my argument?

I understand the argument you are making but I disagree with it entirely. NOED works quite well versus SWF. Nothing is 100% but without it you have no threat at all end game versus a coordinated team. At this junction, solo survivor is screwed. There is no perk design that can be created that will be strong enough for a group yet harmless versus a solo survivor. Instead of tippy toeing around that issue the community needs to come to grips with how broken SWF is. But since people are not brokers of truth or fair play and do not care SWF remains and so does the perk strength.

@Nickenzie said:

@Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@Vietfox said:

@Nickenzie said:

@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:

Also, that's another thing, for something to be fun, it needs to be balanced, you simply said just to have fun, nothing about balance.

i.e when you brought up the swf being fun and the game ONLY being fun when playing with friends.

SWF aren't always a commando unit. @Vietfox plays with his friends drunk just so he can chill out, ya know?

Tbh i'm usually drunk when playing solo as well, and still NOED is not an issue to me. Those who claim that X perk is broken it's because they want ez wins instead of looking for a way to deal with it.
Everyone knows i play more as a survivor than as a killer, and yet i think NOED is fine.

@Vietfox
I'm starting to think NOED is fine, but I really don't like how the perk destroys solo survivors while SWF can take it down in a breeze. This needs to be changed, make NOED equally as strong for both groups of survivors.

Noed does NOT destroy solo survivors as long as they play smart. I spend half of my playtime as a solo survivor and i don't have any issue with noed because i know how to deal with that.

@Vietfox
Here are some scenarios on how NOED can destroy solo survivors:

Scenario A: You start cleansing totems but since you aren't participating in generator repairs, your team starts to struggle and eventually get sacrificed. You just helped the killer by directing your pressure to totems and not generators. This would be the 2 versus 3 scenario because you ACTUALLY helped the killer.

Scenario B: Same as before but this time, your survivor team is 3-man SWF and you're the solo in the team. They start pumping out generators like no tomorrow and now, you're on a timer to cleanse all 5 dull totems before they power the final generator. This would be scenario 1 versus 1 versus 3 because you aren't helping the killer and the SWF aren't helping you.

Scenario C: Let's assume you're using Small Game and you start hitting totems. You're doing so good until you struggle to find the last dull totem, but you won't give up. Eventually the exit gates were powered on and you're scared out of your mind. Suddenly in the HUD, you see a survivor get injured instead of being downed. Now, you understand everything... A random survivor cleansed a dull totem which caused you to waste your time finding the non-existent 5th totem. This would be a 1 versus 1 versus 3 scenario because the randoms screwed up your mental counter while the killer was abusing that.

@FireHazard said:

@michaelmyers87 said:
Only players who have ever been rank one are capable of giving valid opinions on this game 

I hope that's satire.

nope. if you dont have what it takes to be a rank one killer, then you dont know much about this game