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NOED is really bad game design
Comments
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And that video just proves that anyone can get up there, especially if they have the right perksFireHazard said:@The_Crusader said:
michaelmyers87 said:@FireHazard said:
@michaelmyers87 said:
Only players who have ever been rank one are capable of giving valid opinions on this game
I hope that's satire.
nope. if you dont have what it takes to be a rank one killer, then you dont know much about this game
That's a rank 2 killer btw
He imply's that because you're a rank one means your opinions valid... Yet I and many others have been rank 1 pretty much every season we've played and it takes little to no skill to get there.
Is that all new killers think ranks are... a status symbol? I thought that was like a meme.
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@The_Crusader said:
FireHazard said:@The_Crusader said:
michaelmyers87 said:
@FireHazard said:
@michaelmyers87 said:
Only players who have ever been rank one are capable of giving valid opinions on this game I hope that's satire. nope. if you dont have what it takes to be a rank one killer, then you dont know much about this game
That's a rank 2 killer btw
He imply's that because you're a rank one means your opinions valid... Yet I and many others have been rank 1 pretty much every season we've played and it takes little to no skill to get there.
Is that all new killers think ranks are... a status symbol? I thought that was like a meme.
And that video just proves that anyone can get up there, especially if they have the right perks
I guess it goes to show that some new killers think Ranks = Skill... in reality most skilled killers/survivors don't want to even be in rank 1 lmao... for some of us its unpreventable and for others its preferred.
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@Vietfox said:
The_Crusader said:@Vietfox said:
Bad game design for bad survivors.
yawn
How much does Behaviour pay you to defend all of their decisions?
Bad game design is not giving surviors any clue as to how is cleansing totems are how many are cleansed. Lets just have all 4 survivors running around looking for 5 totems, I'm sure we'll manage to get the gens done too.
How many training wheels do you need to accept the game as it is right now?
Noed can be negated before it triggers, if survivors refuse to counter it then it's on them.
Yeah, sometimes the killer is good at keeping the map pressure and you are forced to do gens instead of totems, so what?Survivors don't need to worry much longer.
They are already notified about any hex/affect that they are under so that takes all the guessing out of it (in the event a survivor cant tell what's going on or how the killer downed in one hit).
Soon they will add a 'totems left' counter on the survivor HUD making any chance of NOED going off near impossible ROFL.
Just wait. It will happen.
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@TrAiNwReCk said:
@Vietfox said:
The_Crusader said:@Vietfox said:
Bad game design for bad survivors.
yawn
How much does Behaviour pay you to defend all of their decisions?
Bad game design is not giving surviors any clue as to how is cleansing totems are how many are cleansed. Lets just have all 4 survivors running around looking for 5 totems, I'm sure we'll manage to get the gens done too.
How many training wheels do you need to accept the game as it is right now?
Noed can be negated before it triggers, if survivors refuse to counter it then it's on them.
Yeah, sometimes the killer is good at keeping the map pressure and you are forced to do gens instead of totems, so what?Survivors don't need to worry much longer.
They are already notified about any hex/affect that they are under so that takes all the guessing out of it (in the event a survivor cant tell what's going on or how the killer downed in one hit).
Soon they will add a 'totems left' counter on the survivor HUD making any chance of NOED going off near impossible ROFL.
Just wait. It will happen.
That or they'll buff small game to give a visual aura to anything they see withing the 45 degree cone lmao.
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Lmao at these last 2 comments.
"Just cleans totems guys"
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Oh well back to asking for 7 gens I guess?0 -
Or... we can change the perk to where it has an equal impact to both sides. For example, Shadowborn has an equal impact on both sides, Brutal Strength, Predator, Enduring, and etc... etc... etc...Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Exactly it’s like people don’t understand how balance works. How exactly do you balance a perk to be viable versus SWF endgame yet still make it not OP against single players? You can’t, because that doesn’t make any sense. SWF is too strong in this game.Tucking_Friggered said:@Nickenzie said:
That's right, the perk is strong against solo survivors and weak against SWF. The perk needs to be strong for both survivor groups, namely, solo survivors and SWF. You see my argument?
I understand the argument you are making but I disagree with it entirely. NOED works quite well versus SWF. Nothing is 100% but without it you have no threat at all end game versus a coordinated team. At this junction, solo survivor is screwed. There is no perk design that can be created that will be strong enough for a group yet harmless versus a solo survivor. Instead of tippy toeing around that issue the community needs to come to grips with how broken SWF is. But since people are not brokers of truth or fair play and do not care SWF remains and so does the perk strength.
@Vietfox I know something we can agree on, SWF takes the perk down instantly, yes? Why not change it to where it won't get destroyed by SWF but at the same time, still keeping most of its strength.
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors.No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
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@The_Crusader said:
Lmao at these last 2 comments."Just cleans totems guys"
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Oh well back to asking for 7 gens I guess?
Nah, gotta make it an even number...we need 8!
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I despise NOED and DS. DS just cheats a killer out of a hook, and NOED is a break in the knees for solos if the killer can apply decent pressure. Some of the most frustrating games I've played are the ones where I'd take out three or four totems and NOED still activates because the others can't be bothered to take out a totem. The game would be leagues better if these two perks were either reworked or tossed.
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@Nickenzie said:
Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@Nickenzie said:
That's right, the perk is strong against solo survivors and weak against SWF. The perk needs to be strong for both survivor groups, namely, solo survivors and SWF. You see my argument?
I understand the argument you are making but I disagree with it entirely. NOED works quite well versus SWF. Nothing is 100% but without it you have no threat at all end game versus a coordinated team. At this junction, solo survivor is screwed. There is no perk design that can be created that will be strong enough for a group yet harmless versus a solo survivor. Instead of tippy toeing around that issue the community needs to come to grips with how broken SWF is. But since people are not brokers of truth or fair play and do not care SWF remains and so does the perk strength.
Exactly it’s like people don’t understand how balance works. How exactly do you balance a perk to be viable versus SWF endgame yet still make it not OP against single players? You can’t, because that doesn’t make any sense. SWF is too strong in this game.
Or... we can change the perk to where it has an equal impact to both sides. For example, Shadowborn has an equal impact on both sides, Brutal Strength, Predator, Enduring, and etc... etc... etc...
@Vietfox I know something we can agree on, SWF takes the perk down instantly, yes? Why not change it to where it won't get destroyed by SWF but at the same time, still keeping most of its strength.
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
No, that's not strong enough. You do not have an end game threat with 2 hit requirements versus SWF. They must go down in one or the healing, borrowed time, body blocking wins out. Further, it's rehashing Save the Best for Last. There are already plenty of mid game perks that can do equivalent but the end game is where it is needed and it needs to be decisive. Freddy just about requires it to do anything but watch everyone walk right out.
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Don't let 3-4 survivors make it to the end gane then. Problem solved.Tucking_Friggered said:@Nickenzie said:
Well_Placed_HexTotem said:
Tucking_Friggered said:@Nickenzie said:
That's right, the perk is strong against solo survivors and weak against SWF. The perk needs to be strong for both survivor groups, namely, solo survivors and SWF. You see my argument?
I understand the argument you are making but I disagree with it entirely. NOED works quite well versus SWF. Nothing is 100% but without it you have no threat at all end game versus a coordinated team. At this junction, solo survivor is screwed. There is no perk design that can be created that will be strong enough for a group yet harmless versus a solo survivor. Instead of tippy toeing around that issue the community needs to come to grips with how broken SWF is. But since people are not brokers of truth or fair play and do not care SWF remains and so does the perk strength.
Exactly it’s like people don’t understand how balance works. How exactly do you balance a perk to be viable versus SWF endgame yet still make it not OP against single players? You can’t, because that doesn’t make any sense. SWF is too strong in this game.
Or... we can change the perk to where it has an equal impact to both sides. For example, Shadowborn has an equal impact on both sides, Brutal Strength, Predator, Enduring, and etc... etc... etc...
@Vietfox I know something we can agree on, SWF takes the perk down instantly, yes? Why not change it to where it won't get destroyed by SWF but at the same time, still keeping most of its strength.
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
No, that's not strong enough. You do not have an end game threat with 2 hit requirements versus SWF. They must go down in one or the healing, borrowed time, body blocking wins out.
Or are you admitting that you need NOED to mop up what you couldn't acconplish during the rest of the game?1 -
No the problem is already solved as you are not going to get NOED nerfed no matter how much you complain about it. So cleanse the totems or have your ass delicately carved and handed to you gourmet.
What I will admit is that nothing is more amusing than watching arrogant people make a futile attempt to have the one perk that stops them from teabagging at the end game endlessly, adjusted, and having precisely zero chance of having it happen.
Your angst is arousing to say the least.
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I just want the devs to implement a messaging system....... unlimited uses-->> paper notes and spray paint for graffiti.... this would grant the solo survivors the communication they need to be compete more towards the SWF level which is what the game needs to move forward...0
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Well then if survivors have to do 5 totems that's basically an extra gen. 6 gens is all you need. If tou can't win after that you need to get good. Hopefully now all the crying for increased gen times and extra objectives will stop.0
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@The_Crusader said:
Well then if survivors have to do 5 totems that's basically an extra gen. 6 gens is all you need. If tou can't win after that you need to get good. Hopefully now all the crying for increased gen times and extra objectives will stop.Nah. We'll just keep right on demanding things go our way because it worked for survivors for ages and there isn't anything you can do about it. Self Care, check. Exhaustion, check. Pallet count, check. Cheers!
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Exactly, but the people alligned with one side won't have it so those of us in the middle get stuck with 2 OP crutch perks that ruin the game.ShrimpTwiggs said:I despise NOED and DS. DS just cheats a killer out of a hook, and NOED is a break in the knees for solos if the killer can apply decent pressure. Some of the most frustrating games I've played are the ones where I'd take out three or four totems and NOED still activates because the others can't be bothered to take out a totem. The game would be leagues better if these two perks were either reworked or tossed.
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@The_Crusader said:
Don't let 3-4 survivors make it to the end gane then. Problem solved.
Or are you admitting that you need NOED to mop up what you couldn't acconplish during the rest of the game?
Don't let five totems make it to the end game then. Problem solved.
Or are you admitting that you need NOED nerfed to mop up what you couldn't accomplish during the rest of the game?
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And killers are stuck with SWF in ranked play so build a bridge and get over your issue.
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5 totems (less if the killer already has hexes) doesn't take long. And worst case Ontario you can just bust it afterwards. If you're that scared of it bring a map or Small Game.The_Crusader said:Well then if survivors have to do 5 totems that's basically an extra gen. 6 gens is all you need. If tou can't win after that you need to get good. Hopefully now all the crying for increased gen times and extra objectives will stop.
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@ClogWench said:
The_Crusader said:Well then if survivors have to do 5 totems that's basically an extra gen. 6 gens is all you need. If tou can't win after that you need to get good. Hopefully now all the crying for increased gen times and extra objectives will stop.
5 totems (less if the killer already has hexes) doesn't take long. And worst case Ontario you can just bust it afterwards. If you're that scared of it bring a map or Small Game.
You using your phone m8? Lol.
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@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
No the problem is already solved as you are not going to get NOED nerfed no matter how much you complain about it. So cleanse the totems or have your ass delicately carved and handed to you gourmet.What I will admit is that nothing is more amusing than watching arrogant people make a futile attempt to have the one perk that stops them from teabagging at the end game endlessly, adjusted, and having precisely zero chance of having it happen.
Your angst is arousing to say the least.
The way you word your reply is pretty funny, as if NOED stops teabagging. It doesn't. Once they're at the edge of the gate, they're in the clear regardless of whether you have NOED or not. I think the perk that actually stops that is Blood Warden. And you grouping everyone who doesn't like NOED as 'arrogant' is ridiculous. People have different opinions. What makes it arrogant is usually how it's presented.
At the end of the day, NOED only furthers the gap between solo and SWF. And if the killer applies good map pressure, one person can't take out all the totems by themself. Pair that with a powerful killer like the Nurse, who can wreak pure havoc without it already, and your chances of actually having the time to find the totems and destroy them is slim. It's bad game design. Delfador pretty much summed it up already, so I won't bother repeating anything.
And you saying that my angst is arousing is kinda creepy.
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@FireHazard said:
@The_Crusader said:
Lmao at these last 2 comments."Just cleans totems guys"
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Oh well back to asking for 7 gens I guess?
Nah, gotta make it an even number...we need 8!
@The_Crusader Clearly you can't see we want to 'help survivors' within our comments.
"Lmao at these last 2 comments."
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Can you read?
I mentioned the devs will be adding a totem counter to the survivor HUD making it EASIER
FireHazard mentioned BUFFING small game
You would probably think someone talking about survivors only having 1 gen to do "LMAO this person just wants to make it harder on survivors" This is why killers can't reason with survivors about balance. They couldn't tell balance if it wasn't called balanced landing. "balanced landing didn't go off" other survivor "are you sure your landing was balanced? It needs to be a balanced landing for it to work!"
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A simple buff to small game which indicates how many totems are left would solve the problem.
At least the survivor would have to sacrifice a perk slot to counter noed.
Ds is a whole different discussion I'm afraid.0 -
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@FireHazard said:
@The_Crusader said:
Lmao at these last 2 comments."Just cleans totems guys"
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Oh well back to asking for 7 gens I guess?
Nah, gotta make it an even number...we need 8!
@The_Crusader Clearly you can't see we want to 'help survivors' within our comments.
"Lmao at these last 2 comments."
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Can you read?
I mentioned the devs will be adding a totem counter to the survivor HUD making it EASIER
FireHazard mentioned BUFFING small game
You would probably think someone talking about survivors only having 1 gen to do "LMAO this person just wants to make it harder on survivors" This is why killers can't reason with survivors about balance. They couldn't tell balance if it wasn't called balanced landing. "balanced landing didn't go off" other survivor "are you sure your landing was balanced? It needs to be a balanced landing for it to work!"
Neither side can reason with each other in-general on anything.
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@FireHazard said:
@TrAiNwReCk said:
@FireHazard said:
@The_Crusader said:
Lmao at these last 2 comments."Just cleans totems guys"
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Oh well back to asking for 7 gens I guess?
Nah, gotta make it an even number...we need 8!
@The_Crusader Clearly you can't see we want to 'help survivors' within our comments.
"Lmao at these last 2 comments."
"Hey devs make it harder for survivors to cleanse totems"
Can you read?
I mentioned the devs will be adding a totem counter to the survivor HUD making it EASIER
FireHazard mentioned BUFFING small game
You would probably think someone talking about survivors only having 1 gen to do "LMAO this person just wants to make it harder on survivors" This is why killers can't reason with survivors about balance. They couldn't tell balance if it wasn't called balanced landing. "balanced landing didn't go off" other survivor "are you sure your landing was balanced? It needs to be a balanced landing for it to work!"
Neither side can reason with each other in-general on anything.
Probably true. These forums are a testament to that 1,000 x over!
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As a killer main I am 100% ok with giving a dull totem cleansed notification for survivors (no real need for a counter they can just count the notifications. I guess it could be there anyways but it doesn't have to be) and other survivor QoL
Hell I would even be ok with having survivors who work on a totem revealing the totems aura to other survivors as a passive
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@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
No the problem is already solved as you are not going to get NOED nerfed no matter how much you complain about it. So cleanse the totems or have your ass delicately carved and handed to you gourmet.What I will admit is that nothing is more amusing than watching arrogant people make a futile attempt to have the one perk that stops them from teabagging at the end game endlessly, adjusted, and having precisely zero chance of having it happen.
Your angst is arousing to say the least.
The way you word your reply is pretty funny, as if NOED stops teabagging. It doesn't. Once they're at the edge of the gate, they're in the clear regardless of whether you have NOED or not. I think the perk that actually stops that is Blood Warden. And you grouping everyone who doesn't like NOED as 'arrogant' is ridiculous. People have different opinions. What makes it arrogant is usually how it's presented.
At the end of the day, NOED only furthers the gap between solo and SWF. And if the killer applies good map pressure, one person can't take out all the totems by themself. Pair that with a powerful killer like the Nurse, who can wreak pure havoc without it already, and your chances of actually having the time to find the totems and destroy them is slim. It's bad game design. Delfador pretty much summed it up already, so I won't bother repeating anything.
And you saying that my angst is arousing is kinda creepy.
I don't group anyone who dislikes NOED as arrogant. I don't personally care if someone likes it or doesn't. I group people that are arrogant enough to tell killers they "need a crutch" for using NOED when SWF is a crutch for the survivor community to rank up. I stand by my statement 99% wouldn't ever get past rank 5 without it. That's before we even go down the list of other crutch perks such as DS that punishes the killer for winning the chase with no interaction from the killer at all.
Not having the time to find the totems is part of the game, much as killers don't have time to down survivors 12 times before the gens pop. I can't be assed to care.
If me delighting in the schadenfreude of survivor mains is creepy, then consider me the creepiest. I LOVE it. If I can make them punch a hole in the tv screen I'd dance a jig and it could only be topped if it happened on stream.
That said I am an honest person. I have spent much time in the past protecting survivor perks in discussion on the steam forums to a far greater degree then ANY other person on those forums and the hatch as well. I was successful with the hatch and self care unfortunately the devs decided to change the exhaustion perks.0 -
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
As a killer main I am 100% ok with giving a dull totem cleansed notification for survivors (no real need for a counter they can just count the notifications. I guess it could be there anyways but it doesn't have to be) and other survivor QoLHell I would even be ok with having survivors who work on a totem revealing the totems aura to other survivors as a passive
I think giving survivors a notification for a dull totem being cleansed could be a good middle ground, if letting Small Game keep count is too big of a buff to that perk. Then, if the survivors pay attention and keep count, they'll know how many dull totems are left and the areas in which any were cleansed. But the game isn't doing the work for them.
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@TragicSolitude said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
As a killer main I am 100% ok with giving a dull totem cleansed notification for survivors (no real need for a counter they can just count the notifications. I guess it could be there anyways but it doesn't have to be) and other survivor QoLHell I would even be ok with having survivors who work on a totem revealing the totems aura to other survivors as a passive
I think giving survivors a notification for a dull totem being cleansed could be a good middle ground, if letting Small Game keep count is too big of a buff to that perk. Then, if the survivors pay attention and keep count, they'll know how many dull totems are left and the areas in which any were cleansed. But the game isn't doing the work for them.
Attaching the dull totem count to Small Game is fine. Not just free though and no free notification for what is being cleansed. That's too much of a safety net to not be attached to a perk. Imagine if Discordance was free to killers. Thrill of the Hunt is also a perk killers have to take for totem cleansing notification.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@TragicSolitude said:
@NuclearBurrito2 said:
As a killer main I am 100% ok with giving a dull totem cleansed notification for survivors (no real need for a counter they can just count the notifications. I guess it could be there anyways but it doesn't have to be) and other survivor QoLHell I would even be ok with having survivors who work on a totem revealing the totems aura to other survivors as a passive
I think giving survivors a notification for a dull totem being cleansed could be a good middle ground, if letting Small Game keep count is too big of a buff to that perk. Then, if the survivors pay attention and keep count, they'll know how many dull totems are left and the areas in which any were cleansed. But the game isn't doing the work for them.
Attaching it to Small Game is fine. Not just free though. That's too much of a safety net to not be attached to a perk. Imagine if Discordance was free to killers.
I would never think it should be free info. Personally, I think there are times when DbD already gives too much info away for free. Like telling survivors the Lullaby hex exists before it even has a chance to do anything.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
No the problem is already solved as you are not going to get NOED nerfed no matter how much you complain about it. So cleanse the totems or have your ass delicately carved and handed to you gourmet.What I will admit is that nothing is more amusing than watching arrogant people make a futile attempt to have the one perk that stops them from teabagging at the end game endlessly, adjusted, and having precisely zero chance of having it happen.
Your angst is arousing to say the least.
The way you word your reply is pretty funny, as if NOED stops teabagging. It doesn't. Once they're at the edge of the gate, they're in the clear regardless of whether you have NOED or not. I think the perk that actually stops that is Blood Warden. And you grouping everyone who doesn't like NOED as 'arrogant' is ridiculous. People have different opinions. What makes it arrogant is usually how it's presented.
At the end of the day, NOED only furthers the gap between solo and SWF. And if the killer applies good map pressure, one person can't take out all the totems by themself. Pair that with a powerful killer like the Nurse, who can wreak pure havoc without it already, and your chances of actually having the time to find the totems and destroy them is slim. It's bad game design. Delfador pretty much summed it up already, so I won't bother repeating anything.
And you saying that my angst is arousing is kinda creepy.
I don't group anyone who dislikes NOED as arrogant. I don't personally care if someone likes it or doesn't. I group people that are arrogant enough to tell killers they "need a crutch" for using NOED when SWF is a crutch for the survivor community to rank up. I stand by my statement 99% wouldn't ever get past rank 5 without it. That's before we even go down the list of other crutch perks such as DS that punishes the killer for winning the chase with no interaction from the killer at all.
Not having the time to find the totems is part of the game, much as killers don't have time to down survivors 12 times before the gens pop. I can't be assed to care.
If me delighting in the schadenfreude of survivor mains is creepy, then consider me the creepiest. I LOVE it. If I can make them punch a hole in the tv screen I'd dance a jig and it could only be topped if it happened on stream.
That said I am an honest person. I have spent much time in the past protecting survivor perks in discussion on the steam forums to a far greater degree then ANY other person on those forums and the hatch as well. I was successful with the hatch and self care unfortunately the devs decided to change the exhaustion perks.Well your statement didn't make that quite clear and came off as a broad claim, so sorry for the confusion. And all because something is part of the game, doesn't mean it has to stay that way or that it should come into play in such major ways. I think it's important that people in the community bring attention to stuff like this or the game will never improve.
As for the whole schadenfreude thing, I believe the term you used was 'aroused' which definitely isn't the same thing, at least, not in the way it's usually used.
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I wouldn't be bothered if DS is completely removed from the game, I don't use it, period. Same for NOED, I don't need it because I rarely see all 5 generators getting completed.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
About the rework, that's actually good because you're guaranteeing yourself a free hit. Now, stack this with STBL and you're talking about some good stuff if you ask me. Never judge a book by its cover, this is actually really strong in my opinion.0 -
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
@ShrimpTwiggs said:
@Tucking_Friggered said:
No the problem is already solved as you are not going to get NOED nerfed no matter how much you complain about it. So cleanse the totems or have your ass delicately carved and handed to you gourmet.What I will admit is that nothing is more amusing than watching arrogant people make a futile attempt to have the one perk that stops them from teabagging at the end game endlessly, adjusted, and having precisely zero chance of having it happen.
Your angst is arousing to say the least.
The way you word your reply is pretty funny, as if NOED stops teabagging. It doesn't. Once they're at the edge of the gate, they're in the clear regardless of whether you have NOED or not. I think the perk that actually stops that is Blood Warden. And you grouping everyone who doesn't like NOED as 'arrogant' is ridiculous. People have different opinions. What makes it arrogant is usually how it's presented.
At the end of the day, NOED only furthers the gap between solo and SWF. And if the killer applies good map pressure, one person can't take out all the totems by themself. Pair that with a powerful killer like the Nurse, who can wreak pure havoc without it already, and your chances of actually having the time to find the totems and destroy them is slim. It's bad game design. Delfador pretty much summed it up already, so I won't bother repeating anything.
And you saying that my angst is arousing is kinda creepy.
I don't group anyone who dislikes NOED as arrogant. I don't personally care if someone likes it or doesn't. I group people that are arrogant enough to tell killers they "need a crutch" for using NOED when SWF is a crutch for the survivor community to rank up. I stand by my statement 99% wouldn't ever get past rank 5 without it. That's before we even go down the list of other crutch perks such as DS that punishes the killer for winning the chase with no interaction from the killer at all.
Not having the time to find the totems is part of the game, much as killers don't have time to down survivors 12 times before the gens pop. I can't be assed to care.
If me delighting in the schadenfreude of survivor mains is creepy, then consider me the creepiest. I LOVE it. If I can make them punch a hole in the tv screen I'd dance a jig and it could only be topped if it happened on stream.
That said I am an honest person. I have spent much time in the past protecting survivor perks in discussion on the steam forums to a far greater degree then ANY other person on those forums and the hatch as well. I was successful with the hatch and self care unfortunately the devs decided to change the exhaustion perks.Well your statement didn't make that quite clear and came off as a broad claim, so sorry for the confusion. And all because something is part of the game, doesn't mean it has to stay that way or that it should come into play in such major ways. I think it's important that people in the community bring attention to stuff like this or the game will never improve.
As for the whole schadenfreude thing, I believe the term you used was 'aroused' which definitely isn't the same thing, at least, not in the way it's usually used.
It was me being smarmy. I didn't mean it literally. I get that sarcasm doesn't translate well online but ... never mind.
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you'll cowards don't even cleanse totems
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Uh Hmm , Let me help clarify the Probs here .
1% of Killers Lobby Dodge , I never lobby Dodge even if I'm playing a low rated Killer such as Freddy .
NOED is not really a bad game design ...it's only created when Decisive Strike was implemented .
Cleansing the totem ain't that hard it's mostly near a gen or in front of a rock facing a gen nearby.
If you don't want NOED to activate simple Genrush and Open the Gates fast . After opening just Leave ! Stop being a distraction or camp for the hatch .
Did you know , most of my Killers Except Freddy And Pig have NOED on like seriously ...I play Hag and hillbilly and I don't even need NOED cause I know how to think .
But if you want to be some T-bagging Exit Gate , then go on ...! I will kick you out whatever it takes.0 -
I'm a Killer Main That can use all Killers
Yet at the same time a Survivor main of Jake and Ace .
You know like all my games there will be NOED always yet somehow I always survive . you know why because I just do obj , do totems and leave . I don't care of flashlighting Killer , Farming Hooka or even do any BS BMing .1 -
@Nickenzie said:
I'm starting to think NOED is fine, but I really don't like how the perk destroys solo survivors while SWF can take it down in a breeze. This needs to be changed, make NOED equally as strong for both groups of survivors.How does this perk destroy solo Survivors? I don't get this conclusion. Are you talking about 4 solos in the same trial and no one but you bothers cleansing the dull totems?
How is that screwing over the solos? 3 are doing gens while you are doing totems. That's the best thing that can happen, as you perfectly well know where you've already been and therefore won't waste time looking for the totem in places someone already had looked before.
If you end up with 3 solos that also cleanse dull totems, it will take a minute or two and ALL totems will be gone while they do gens simmultaneously.
If you end up with a SWF, they will break those totems down in a breeze.
So really, in the end the only thing that might screw you are the 4x solo teams. How often do you get matched with 3 other solo players? One year ago, 70% of the queues included SWFs. It's probably a lot more by now.
In the end it's all about the incompetence of the other Survivors. You HAVE a perfectly fine and simple solution to NOED; cleanse the dull totems. If you or your teammates fail to do this, you'll get punished. Simple. NOED is a punishment for the lazy or the unaware Survivors, that's all.
Good players will expect it and avoid getting hit after gates are powered or they take care of it before it pops. Doesn't matter if it's in a SWF or with Solos.
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Punishing players for not using counters is not bad design. This is like saying that if a player refuses to use grabs/throws in a fighting game, then that makes blocking bad game design.
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Good thing you don’t design this video game, that’s all I’ll say.Nickenzie said:
I wouldn't be bothered if DS is completely removed from the game, I don't use it, period. Same for NOED, I don't need it because I rarely see all 5 generators getting completed.Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
About the rework, that's actually good because you're guaranteeing yourself a free hit. Now, stack this with STBL and you're talking about some good stuff if you ask me. Never judge a book by its cover, this is actually really strong in my opinion.0 -
"A great end game perk that can turn the tide of the match entirely"Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
Well that's kind of the entire complaint man. I had a Spirit the other day who didn't manage to put a single survivor into the dying state all game. I thinknthey injured 2 people and that was it. At the end of the game NOED kicks in and they must have had at least 5 hooks then and got a kill out of it.
What's the point? Why make the effort to win when you can just use perks to boost yourself anf get lucky?
It negates skill and it also boosts bad players up to a level where they can't compete. People would be better off getting better at the game to have more fun rather than having Noed do it for them.
Same applies to Decisive Strike.0 -
@Orion said:
Punishing players for not using counters is not bad design. This is like saying that if a player refuses to use grabs/throws in a fighting game, then that makes blocking bad game design.Cleansing totems isnt really a counter. Killer just trades insta down to secondary objectives in that case.
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Citation needed.Crackgear said:.
1% of Killers Lobby Dodge ,0 -
@The_Crusader said:
Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
"A great end game perk that can turn the tide of the match entirely"
Well that's kind of the entire complaint man. I had a Spirit the other day who didn't manage to put a single survivor into the dying state all game. I thinknthey injured 2 people and that was it. At the end of the game NOED kicks in and they must have had at least 5 hooks then and got a kill out of it.
What's the point? Why make the effort to win when you can just use perks to boost yourself anf get lucky?
It negates skill and it also boosts bad players up to a level where they can't compete. People would be better off getting better at the game to have more fun rather than having Noed do it for them.
Same applies to Decisive Strike.
Calm down noed isnt that strong as you think. If killer turned a loss into win its completely survivors fault. I may add that Noed may be really strong on some certain killers like hag for instance.
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End of the game...Slayer said:@The_Crusader said:
Well_Placed_HexTotem said:@Nickenzie said:
This rework would solve everything about NOED, it will make perk viable for both groups of survivors. No One Escapes Death:
Progress infuriates you beyond belief which causes you to release your true potential. Whenever a generator is completed, you'll receive a 5%/10%/15% haste effect and a 20% attack cool down decrease until you perform a successful offensive action. Haste effects and attack cool downs do not stack if multiple generators are completed.
So... instead of a great end game perk that can turn the tide of a match entirely, it's reworked into a poor man's STBFL.. where the killer gets a haste effect and an attack cool down decrease... until you hit someone?
Why would any killer run this? Personally I'd rather run Tinkerer and see when a gen is about to pop and get a silent terror radius. This rework is doodoo. When you said "viable for both groups" I think you forgot to add that it's viable for survivors because it would effectively remove NOED from the game.
Here, let me rework Decisive Strike:
Decisive Strike - You're ashamed that you got downed. When the killer picks you up, hit any button on the controller to immediately disconnect from the match. All normal disconnect penalties apply.
Yo breh that's totally viable for both groups.
"A great end game perk that can turn the tide of the match entirely"
Well that's kind of the entire complaint man. I had a Spirit the other day who didn't manage to put a single survivor into the dying state all game. I thinknthey injured 2 people and that was it. At the end of the game NOED kicks in and they must have had at least 5 hooks then and got a kill out of it.
What's the point? Why make the effort to win when you can just use perks to boost yourself anf get lucky?
It negates skill and it also boosts bad players up to a level where they can't compete. People would be better off getting better at the game to have more fun rather than having Noed do it for them.
Same applies to Decisive Strike.
Calm down noed isnt that strong as you think. If killer turned a loss into win its completely survivors fault. I may add that Noed may be really strong on some certain killers like hag for instance.
- No pallets left
- Killers balanced for 110ms become 114ms
- Killers balanced for 115ms become 119ms
- Unlimited instadowns on M1
Yeah it's not that strong. At that point any noob can take a 110ms killer and do pretty well.0 -
@The_Crusader said:
End of the game...- No pallets left
- Killers balanced for 110ms become 114ms
- Killers balanced for 115ms become 119ms
- Unlimited instadowns on M1
Yeah it's not that strong. At that point any noob can take a 110ms killer and do pretty well.
"Unlimited instadown on M1"
You realize that at that point the Killer has maybe 30 seconds until gates are open and Survivors escaped or are already on the totem. If the Killer manages to down more than one Survivor in that period of time, it's entirely the fault of Survivors. One might get unlucky and get caught while opening the Gate, that's the time frame you have available to open the other gate or cleanse the totem. If the Killers gets more than that, you failed.
E: And not to forget, that is the worst case scenario where you failed to cleanse all totems (5x14s). You can totally prevent that from happening and effectively take away one of the Killers perk (or nullify a whole build) by just getting the dull totems first.
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You act like there wasn't an entire game before that part?PiiFree said:@The_Crusader said:
End of the game...- No pallets left
- Killers balanced for 110ms become 114ms
- Killers balanced for 115ms become 119ms
- Unlimited instadowns on M1
Yeah it's not that strong. At that point any noob can take a 110ms killer and do pretty well.
"Unlimited instadown on M1"
You realize that at that point the Killer has maybe 30 seconds until gates are open and Survivors escaped or are already on the totem. If the Killer manages to down more than one Survivor in that period of time, it's entirely the fault of Survivors. One might get unlucky and get caught while opening the Gate, that's the time frame you have available to open the other gate or cleanse the totem. If the Killers gets more than that, you failed.
E: And not to forget, that is the worst case scenario where you failed to cleanse all totems (5x14s). You can totally prevent that from happening and effectively take away one of the Killers perk (or nullify a whole build) by just getting the dull totems first.
The killer had 5 gens in which to eliminate at least 1-2 survivors. If the survivors play well and all 4 make it to the end then why should the killer whonplayed inferior get a "catch-up" perk?
The game is balanced around a 2k so the killer should if both sides play equal be having 2 escape. If survivors escape what's wrong with that? They are allowed to win too.
The extra totems and time spent running around for them more than makes a new entire generator. Against a good Billy with Ruin on top? Sometimes it's just overkill.0 -
@The_Crusader said:
You act like there wasn't an entire game before that part?The killer had 5 gens in which to eliminate at least 1-2 survivors. If the survivors play well and all 4 make it to the end then why should the killer whonplayed inferior get a "catch-up" perk?
The game is balanced around a 2k so the killer should if both sides play equal be having 2 escape. If survivors escape what's wrong with that? They are allowed to win too.
The extra totems and time spent running around for them more than makes a new entire generator. Against a good Billy with Ruin on top? Sometimes it's just overkill.
You mention "good Billy", implying that the Survivors are also good? Then how are they affected by Ruin? Good Survivors are not affected by Ruin. If it affects them, they are bad Survivors and therefore deserve to lose against a good Billy. That's how balance works.
According to your logic, Adrenaline shouldn't exist either? I'm not even going to mention DS here.
So yes, the Killer played the entire match before, but they sacrificed one out of four perks to get that advantage in the end of the match. They gave you an entire match of 3 perks only and you still failed to take care of the perk before it activated.
It's pure incompetence. Lack of skill / awareness and bad decision making, that's it. YOU decide when NOED activates (if at all) the Killer just hopes that you time it poorly so they can make use of it. The moment you pop the last gen is the moment you gotta be ready to deal with NOED. If not, don't pop the last gen.
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Ruin does slow the game down, otherwise you wouldn't have seemingly 99% of killers at red ranks running it. Even if they msnage to hit every single great skillcheck which isn't going to happen across 4 survivors they still don't get the bonus from it.PiiFree said:@The_Crusader said:
You act like there wasn't an entire game before that part?The killer had 5 gens in which to eliminate at least 1-2 survivors. If the survivors play well and all 4 make it to the end then why should the killer whonplayed inferior get a "catch-up" perk?
The game is balanced around a 2k so the killer should if both sides play equal be having 2 escape. If survivors escape what's wrong with that? They are allowed to win too.
The extra totems and time spent running around for them more than makes a new entire generator. Against a good Billy with Ruin on top? Sometimes it's just overkill.
You mention "good Billy", implying that the Survivors are also good? Then how are they affected by Ruin? Good Survivors are not affected by Ruin. If it affects them, they are bad Survivors and therefore deserve to lose against a good Billy. That's how balance works.
According to your logic, Adrenaline shouldn't exist either? I'm not even going to mention DS here.
So yes, the Killer played the entire match before, but they sacrificed one out of four perks to get that advantage in the end of the match. They gave you an entire match of 3 perks only and you still failed to take care of the perk before it activated.
It's pure incompetence. Lack of skill / awareness and bad decision making, that's it. YOU decide when NOED activates (if at all) the Killer just hopes that you time it poorly so they can make use of it. The moment you pop the last gen is the moment you gotta be ready to deal with NOED. If not, don't pop the last gen.
Why so defensive here? Of course DS and Adrenaline are just as big a problem as NOED. It's not one side vs the other here. It's 3 busted perks that ruin the fun for the other side.
I mean I guess by your logic Adrenaline is fine because survivors had 1 perk slot unused all game? Hell you coulf argue DS is fine because 3 of the survivors might never have a chance to use it.
5 totems for one perk. Sounds balanced. An entire extra gen bssically.
Just admit you love your crutch. You seem to be implying solo survivors need to play absolutely perfectly in order to be allowed to win but a killer is allowed to play poorly then cheese the ending with one perk.0 -
@The_Crusader said:
Ruin does slow the game down, otherwise you wouldn't have seemingly 99% of killers at red ranks running it. Even if they msnage to hit every single great skillcheck which isn't going to happen across 4 survivors they still don't get the bonus from it.Why so defensive here? Of course DS and Adrenaline are just as big a problem as NOED. It's not one side vs the other here. It's 3 busted perks that ruin the fun for the other side.
I mean I guess by your logic Adrenaline is fine because survivors had 1 perk slot unused all game? Hell you coulf argue DS is fine because 3 of the survivors might never have a chance to use it.
5 totems for one perk. Sounds balanced. An entire extra gen bssically.
Just admit you love your crutch. You seem to be implying solo survivors need to play absolutely perfectly in order to be allowed to win but a killer is allowed to play poorly then cheese the ending with one perk.
For the record: I never use NOED. NEVER. (just fyi before you continue to make up blatant lies).
Adrenaline would be fine if it just triggered when the last gen popped. What makes it broken is that it pops upon unhooking. That's the only problem I have with Adrenaline. That would be an equivalent to NOED; it heals you for one state and gives you a speed boost the moment the last gen pops. NOED removes an additional health state and gives the Killer a speed boost the moment the last gen pops.
It's not 5 totems for one perk, it's 5 totems for 2 perks: Ruin and NOED. That's the unbalanced scenario you just made up, but according to your logic that actually makes it an unbalanced thing for the Killers.
If 5 totems for 1 perk is balanced then 5 totems for 2 perks is certainly not.
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