@The_Crusader said:
Blueberry said:

@Aven_Fallen said:

 @Blueberry said:

Even if slugging is an issue to any survivor there are multiple anti slugging perks available, they just simply refuse to use them.

What are those Perks?

Unbreakable for sure, but please dont tell me you mean No Mither with this "Please pick me up, I will recover from dying state"-Sign.

Unbreakable, Tenacity and to an extent Adrenaline. This is on top of the fact that slugging was nerfed recently to where you can recover to only needing a second tap from another survivor to get you up or that with the recently added ranking system killers are punished for slugging as it doesn't get you any emblem points.

Lol what?

If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon.

Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed.

That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason.

" If there are 2 survivors left and 1 is slugged I can guarentee you Adrenaline isn't going to activate anytime soon."

This is entirely subjective. Many times you only need 1 or 2 gens and if the killer is really watching that closely over them then that shouldn't be a problem. If they aren't then that's an easy save. If you really do need 3+ gens then the slugging isn't really the issue as this means the entire team is just playing very badly and that's simply a skill issue.

"Tenacity can't get you off the ground. You could crawl to the other person but chances are the killer will be keeping a watchful eye over you anyway so you'd just get the other person killed."

The whole point is not that it gets you off the ground, it's that you are able to lose the killer and get off the ground quicker from a save. If he''s watching you so closely that he still doesn't lose you then that other survivor is getting to work on gens for free now isn't he. Also, only a stupid survivor is gonna be just crawling directly in the direction of the other survivor and that's just simply a miss play on his part.

"That leaves Unbreakable, a perk that will see use in 1 in every 500 games. Killers don't take Hangmans trick, mad grit, or iron maiden for the same reason."
So if it's that rarely used then slugging really isn't happening that often, so which is it? Is it happening enough to make this perk good or is it not and this entire forum post is now mute. You're contradicting yourself.

PiiFree said:

@Aven_Fallen said:

@PiiFree said:

@Eveline said:
But it takes forever sometimes...

It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.

Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved.

That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.

You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.

Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!

@Nickenzie said:
PiiFree said:

@Aven_Fallen said:

@PiiFree said:

@Eveline said:

But it takes forever sometimes...

It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.

Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved.

That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.

You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.

Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!

Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.

The solution on the survivor side is to do gens while the killer is on the hatch. And then to go to the hatch when the killer checks on the gens

@Eveline said:
Swiftblade131 said:

Why do survivors wait at the gates when no one is hooked?

That's totally the topic here. 

Eye for an Eye

@Eveline said:
Don't get me wrong I don't even want the hatch I just want to move to the next game. It's so boring.

It's the most killers can do if they want a 4k. Otherwise, they'll either need to find the survivor before they find the hatch or have a stand-off.

NuclearBurrito2 said:

@Nickenzie said:
PiiFree said:

@Aven_Fallen said:

@PiiFree said:

@Eveline said:

But it takes forever sometimes...

It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.

Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved.

That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.

You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.

Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!

Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.

The solution on the survivor side is to do gens while the killer is on the hatch. And then to go to the hatch when the killer checks on the gens

Exactly, but others think wasting 30+ minutes is a even better option. Personally, if reach the hatch, I'll either kill myself or attack the survivor just so I can move on to the next game. It sucks that losing is the only option but hey, at least I get to keep 30 minutes of my life and spend them on those delicious bloodpoints!

@Nickenzie said:
NuclearBurrito2 said:

@Nickenzie said:

PiiFree said:

@Aven_Fallen said:

@PiiFree said:

@Eveline said:

But it takes forever sometimes...



It's still way faster than the average time required for a hatch standoff.



Just dont do Hatch Stand-Offs. Problem solved.



That's what I'm doing by slugging. Problem solved.



You can just slap the survivor on the butt and take your 3k. Same thing for the survivor side, let the killer sacrifice you by jumping in and move on.

Problem solved and you save 20 minutes of your time. Yeah, you're so welcome!

Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.

The solution on the survivor side is to do gens while the killer is on the hatch. And then to go to the hatch when the killer checks on the gens

Exactly, but others think wasting 30+ minutes is a even better option. Personally, if reach the hatch, I'll either kill myself or attack the survivor just so I can move on to the next game. It sucks that losing is the only option but hey, at least I get to keep 30 minutes of my life and spend them on those delicious bloodpoints!

The point is that you balance and make plans with the assumption that winning is your #1 priority. Because when it isn't you aren't trying to play optimally in the first place.

thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.

Except the killer has already won because they pipped, likely even double pipped. A 4k is not what defines a win in this game, it's only a win based on your arbitrary rules. Survivor on the other hand does risk "losing" by jumping into the hatch to get grabbed because they can lose their pip for that. This is almost NEVER the situation for the killer, unless it's something like 3 survivors escaped already and the last one is just greedy for hatch.

I freely give hatch in a ton of my games (and some games people get it legit) I still "won" because I got a 3k and pipped/double pipped.

Like I said in the other thread, if you gave up this idea that "4k = only win condition" then you would probably get a lot more enjoyment and a lot less frustration out of playing killer.

We have been over this.

Also even if I agreed with you (I don't) then I would still want to 4k because I don't see if I have pipped or not until after the game ends. So I can't make ingame decisions based on it

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito2 said:
Any solution that invovles willingly losing isn't one.

Except the killer has already won because they pipped, likely even double pipped. A 4k is not what defines a win in this game, it's only a win based on your arbitrary rules. Survivor on the other hand does risk "losing" by jumping into the hatch to get grabbed because they can lose their pip for that. This is almost NEVER the situation for the killer, unless it's something like 3 survivors escaped already and the last one is just greedy for hatch.

I freely give hatch in a ton of my games (and some games people get it legit) I still "won" because I got a 3k and pipped/double pipped.

Like I said in the other thread, if you gave up this idea that "4k = only win condition" then you would probably get a lot more enjoyment and a lot less frustration out of playing killer.

Pips in this game do not decide if you won or not. If we were going by pips then on most matches everyone would be a winner as it's extremely hard not to pip. Basing your wins on pips is you thinking you won when you're given a participation trophy.

Good grief the hatch isn't a free escape get over yourselves because the survivors had to do their objective enough for it to even spawn and then actually make it out alive.

I don't do hatch standoffs, I go look for them and if it was a good match and I find it 1st i let them know where it is then roam off.

My ego isn't that large that I've got to get my 4k and if someone gets out come to the forums and whine about it being a free escape.

Watching all the whining on here about it is no different than watching a bunch of 6 year olds whine over someone winning a board game because gasp they did what they were supposed to.

@powerbats said:
Good grief the hatch isn't a free escape get over yourselves because the survivors had to do their objective enough for it to even spawn and then actually make it out alive.

I don't do hatch standoffs, I go look for them and if it was a good match and I find it 1st i let them know where it is then roam off.

My ego isn't that large that I've got to get my 4k and if someone gets out come to the forums and whine about it being a free escape.

Watching all the whining on here about it is no different than watching a bunch of 6 year olds whine over someone winning a board game because gasp they did what they were supposed to.

You realize that this is a thread of a Survivor whining about Killers preventing a hatch standoff from happening by slugging the 3rd?

Has nothing to do with ego either but w/e.

@PiiFree said:

@powerbats said:
Good grief the hatch isn't a free escape get over yourselves because the survivors had to do their objective enough for it to even spawn and then actually make it out alive.

I don't do hatch standoffs, I go look for them and if it was a good match and I find it 1st i let them know where it is then roam off.

My ego isn't that large that I've got to get my 4k and if someone gets out come to the forums and whine about it being a free escape.

Watching all the whining on here about it is no different than watching a bunch of 6 year olds whine over someone winning a board game because gasp they did what they were supposed to.

You realize that this is a thread of a Survivor whining about Killers preventing a hatch standoff from happening by slugging the 3rd?

Has nothing to do with ego either but w/e.

My comment was directed at all the whiny people who when confronted with facts about it go make a new thread or post the exact same disproven comments.

@thesuicidefox said:

Because both killer and survivors in your rank are playing for kills/escapes and not the pip. PIP IS THE WIN CONDITION AS DEFINIED BY THE GAME. Any other "win condition" is purely imaginary and of your own accord.

Huh. You may want to let the DBD game director know that... since as of Nov 2018, he seems to not be aware of that.

Per Twitchcon 2018 interview:
Cote: "One of the difficulties is that the game does not have a clear-cut win/lose condition. It's more of a gradient of did I have a good game, do I feel like I’ve accomplished much, was it fun? We play in those waters and that doesn’t lend itself very well to tournaments with very strict rules sports thing. "

Because when killers complain about the hatch, survivors (and some killers) tell them “just slug for the 4K”, then get yelled at for slugging. It’s an endless loop. 

@thesuicidefox Yet again you miss the point.
I never told you, that I disagree with pipping is the games win condition.

Humans are different and when the majority is playing for other reasons the wincondition can be altered and changed.

Often games changes in ways the devs original never intended, players finding playstyles, exploits in the game mechanic that enhances the gameplay and are expression of skill. If such an exploit is too powerful or game breaking the devs usually interfere.

One of the recent example for this is the Moonwalking Legion. 360° from survivors or voice was also never a thing the devs had planned.

If you work with humans you need to be flexible and need to have the ability to compromise.
If no one is playing for the pip, because  pipping is not rewarding but punishing for most of the players then there need to be some adjustments.

If the majority of players play for the kills or for BP and this motivation is the major driving force for their in game decisions you need to alter the game around this.

Again you are so stuck with your thinking of what is the correct way, the correct terms that you miss OPs question.

Why killers slug for the 4k?

Because the majority of the killers have other values than solely pipping.
Because humans are no machines.
Emotions, personal pride and gain are deeply ingrained into the human psychology.

If you truly want to understand why people playing the way they do, you cannot hit everyone with the same hammer! 

If everyone is playing for the BP or 4k then the game has to evolve further.

Either by putting a higher emphasis on pips or a shift in winconditions.

I personally don't like slugging, it's unintuitive and boring for the slugged one, yet sometimes necessary.

I am all for it to explore new possibilities how to play the game and how to maximize the fun for everyone.

Change and adaptation is a good and healthy thing and I hope you will learn this one day and stop repeating yourself like a broken record and start to embrace the variety of mankind and new possibilities.

I wish you all the best.

Dude slugging has got so bad that they don’t even do it just Bc of hatch anymore it will be beginning or mid game and they’ll start slugging for the 4K and it’s so hard to combat if they’re any good at it. I’ve become so sick of sluggers Bc it’s not just end game anymore. 

@thesuicidefox said:

@NuclearBurrito said:
Overwatch and battleright are 2 examples off the top of my head that use performance rather than a binary win/lose to determine ranks

Which is exactly what a pip is, except due to the asymmetrical and random nature of the game it is also the win condition because escaping every game or 4k'ing every game is impossible even if you are really good. Sometimes things happen that are beyond your ability to overcome, eg. bad totem placement. That can cost you kills AND a pip if it's in a bad spot. But it can also almost carry you to get kills/pip if it's in a good spot. Due to this sort of stuff, you can not use purely kills/escapes as a measure of a win or loss.

And for every game you cite that has performance as the measure to rank up instead of a pure win/loss (which a game like Overwatch has clearly defined and you aren't screwed by RNG, both not like in DBD so it's not really comparable in the first place) there are 10 more that rank purely on win/loss.

I know that games that rank based off wins/losses more often than not. But since not all of them do that means ranking up based on something is not proof that it is winning. Especially since the thing that is ACTUALLY stated as winning in the tutorial for the game is something we both agree would be a bad sole measure to rank someone on (which according to you is there to help counterbalance RNG when it isn't based on wincon).

And since it DOES state in the tutorial that you are trying to escape/sacrifice that means I'm not just pulling it out of my ass and "making it up".

And you also said that the game tells you that pipping is your wincondition, so I will ask again. Where does the game say you are supposed to be pipping?

or in otherwords:

"Doesn't change that pip is a win condition as defined by the game." Where can I find the game stating this definition?

Screen shot it and assuming it isn't clearly something being misconstrued then I will admit you are right. In the meantime I'm going to see if the tutorial actually uses the word "win" at any point