Merry Christmas! DBD is pay 2 win, and should be f2p.

Someone should introduce these people to Fighting Game monetization.

I'd certainly take a timestamp if there is a direct comparison as it's just one of many genres of paid games with worse monetization schemes.

I wouldn't really enjoy DBD if it's F2P I already have big issues with the game as it is. Almost every session I play I run into blatant cheaters and it feels like there's no checks in sight to stop it. Ran into a crew speedhacking this morning but somehow I killed them because they got cocky and didn't know how to deal with Blood Warden and than Galaxy Brained and tried to accuse me of camping.

I genuinely can't imagine DBD going F2P and the damage that would do to this game. It's already painful enough questioning the legitimacy of players as it is with how common cheating and even subtle cheating is. I don't wanna deal with that in F2P droves.

I don't agree that this game is Pay To Win - The thing is this game originally didn't even have the option to unlock the stuff for free - You had to pay for everything even original content. The honest answer is pay up it's not that much money in comparison to what you get. You want stuff for free that normally cost money that everyone pays for? Grind for it - It's honestly pretty fair compared to a lot of other games.

Realistically as much as I give BHVR flak I get why they have their monetization methods. You gotta pay people to keep working on the game, to keep the dedicated servers up and running and to pay for licenses. If you want to get anything free at all it should come at a compromise to keep the playercount up and keep you in game.

Regarding actually unlocking perks and needing to grind for those once you unlock or buy a killer. I'll just say it - People who pay should instantly unlock all the tier 1 perks on all characters. We all keep the game running and we're going to experiment with builds the most - if we pay we should be able to play right away. Call that pay2win if you want I call it investing in a game I spend hours on and plan to play long term. I'm not ignorant that if I don't pay money the updates slow down - I just won't support certain things but DLC specifically is not one I won't support.

So I skipped around the video, but his big error is comparing it to Call of Duty. He says you can get all of Call of Duty for $70, while DBD would cost $200.

The problem is that Call of Duty and a lot of other games have relatively short life cycles. They push you to buy the 'new' game that is constantly coming out. Since DbD came out there have been 10 Call of Duty games. So if you were playing the latest Call of Duty game you would have spent two to four times what you would have on DBD.

BHVR has remained committed to the base game. They've continued to update it and they need a revenue stream. The "DLC" gives new content and options, sometimes a balance issue they are more powerful, but there are plenty of builds available to relatively new players.

I do agree the monetisation is bad but if making this game free to play means we won't get outits like the dredge and david ones in the tome then i don't want it to.

Eruption, Call of Brine, Deadlock

all locked behind a pay wall.

Why don't people understand that F2P means a game is P2W?

How do F2P games make their money? Gatcha systems and predatory business models. They get you hooked then force you to keep buying things to get better.

DBD may have a unique business model that's borderline P2W (it kinda blurs the lines between expansion packs and P2W) but you can absolutely bet that going F2P would force them to cross that line.

I don't use any of those perks and I win just fine.

And also because they improved their anti cheat. You think they just ran out of accounts all of a sudden?

So do I, but were talking about Pay 2 Win here. Everyone knows that in any game that is Pay 2 Win you can still win without doing so. But if you want the best chance at doing so by having the best tools available, its without a doubt you need to pay. Especially if youre up against people who are willing to pay to have an advantage.

Ill take another game that I used to play as an example, Clash Royale. I used to be in the highest arena (Being Legendary Arena) at Challengers 2. I would win most of my games but I only spent about 10$ on the game. My cards did not reflect my player level at all. I was Level 13 with mostly Level 11 and 12 cards. The moment I went against some one who paid, I was done for. I used 1 deck for the majority of my time in the higher ranks because its all I could compete with since I had a severe lack of options.

Thats exactly the problem with DbD. Not paying anything SEVERLY limits your options, and the moment you go up against some one who is willing to pay, youre at a disadvantage. The newer you are, the worst this is as well since you wont even have other characters leveled up/prestiged to unlock their teachables on other characters.

I wrote some thoughts under the vid, so here's them again:

DbD needs an essential and elementary overhaul in terms of what we pay for.

No one is really averse against cosmetics, but as mintskull and others said and agree, as it is atm, the pricing is absolutely absurd, especially when it's only 1 single version of something.

So, here's some stuff that could be done:

Cosmetics:

1. Reduce the prices of the ingamestore cosmetics, drastically (and give everyone who bought outfits before unique stuff)
2. Release recolour packs in the stores (steam, ps etc). Meaning that whenever a new cosmetic (meaning new mesh) drops, one specific version is only available ingame, the rest is available in a pack. This goes for collection and rift cosmetics.
3. Have there be questlines to unlock unique cosmetics.
4. Once someone spends a certain amount of cells they unlock unique cosmetics (can go hand in hand with #1 in the sense that everyone who ever bought stuff for cells gets some free tokens to exchange in the unique-outfit store)
5. Add customizable themes. People already use mods to change their icons and portraits' looks, so why not have this build in?

This way cosmetics would be cheaper but there's more of an incentive to buy cells.

Perks & Character:

This is the bigger issue, as the vid points out rightfully. But one decently simple-ish to solve I'd say:

1. Keep the chapters and their prices as they are, but rework the SoS to feature more perks and have a better rotation. Also make the SoS cheaper or revert the mechanic back to the old version that unlocks a perk that can then be leveled up in the bloodweb.
2. Character Questlines: The dailies are fine-ish, but not much of a useful thing. So instead move dailies into questlines that challenge players to learn a new character. I'll take Slinger as example: The quests could be starting out like plain shooting and reeling, to learning to do trickshots. Meaning that you'd start out in a tutorial version of Dead Dawg and get tasked to find the spots where you can land some surprising shots (e.g. through the gallows' trapdoor, across the street from the saloon balcony, through the carriage windows, etc) to landing those shots against stationary dummies, to moving bots to landing these shots in a live match (not in one match, cause that is impossible). Through these quests you'd learn the characters, and bit by bit unlock their teachables, ultimately unlocking a set of exclusive cosmetics, charms and lobby/UI themes. Aka, you'd earn massive bragging rights (and some shards and cells I'd say)

True it would take some massive ovehaul on how the game works, but I reckon it's worth it (especially because of bragging rights)

You don't need those to win. They make it easier but pay to win specifically is that you can't win without paying

A good nurse or blight can easilly win the mayority of their pub matches without perks, even more if they add the free perks

Their are 2 mayor oversights you "DbD is paytowin" people make

First you only look at the game from a competitive standpoint. But that's not what happens if you play DbD. The skill of what you face varries. In actual pay to win games you come across a roadblock where everything you face is too hard unless you have the paid for winstrat. That's not the case in dbd

And you also state it from the viewpoint of m1 killers that they can't win. But that's not a pay to win issue that's a balance issue. If there is a free or unlockable thing available that's stronger you can't complain about pay to win

Nurse and blight, conciddert the top dogs are free. Just because wesker can get simular results means nothing.

You can win the vast mayority of the time without paying for more then the base game. Therefore not pay to win.

It's really not that hard

No... free means you don't need to pay monetary vallue for it

You people just keep changing the definition to suit your needs

By that definition every single perk in the game is pay to win cause you need to get enough bloodpoints to unlock them

Also if the argument is about pay to win you don't need to unlock everything. I'm pretty sure you can make a nurse build capable of winning the mayority of the time with one or 2 character unlocks.

Pretty sure you could do it without any unlocks either too

Yes against the $1000 guy in diablo you don't stand a chance

That never happens in dbd. Be a good nurse or blight with their best addons you never don't stand a chance. Regardless of perks you unlocked by paying money

Alright then,

DbD is pay to win but the advantage is so miniscule it isn't actually a problem

I mean, I've spent maybe $50 on this game over 5 years....$10 of which I've been recycling theough the passes when there's cosmetics I like. I don't have any trouble winning and the only meta perk I don't have is CoB. So yeah, you can spend a bunch of money in this game, but you don't need to. Compared to other games they're pretty good about offering ways to buy characters/perks with in-game currency and frequently have chapter sales. I've never paid more than $5 for a chapter. If you're patient there are options. I've probably got around 1500 hours playtime out of my $50 so far. That's pretty good value.

You don't need them to win, you're right. But when looking at it from a competitive standpoint (because why wouldn't you?) you are without a doubt at a disadvantage.

Also about it being more of a "balance issue", nah. Take 2 new players, one who's willing to spend 100$+ on DLC and another who doesn't spend a dime. Who do you think is going to do better overall? The guy with SEVERLY limited options who has to grind thousands of hours only to still be missing 1/3 of the cast? (Idk if you play console, but on PC you only start with 5 killers) Or the guy who spends the dough to have the entire cast despite just starting, making him have MANY MANY more options to chose from compared to the other. You have to grind SIGNIFICANTLY less if you want to pay money.

Mobile games like Clash of Clans or Clash Royale are seen as P2W, some people don't even have a doubt in their mind once you ask them to question. They are also 2 games that you need to spend actual years to grind to achieve the highest point and the entirety of the games content if you don't want to pay. (I would know, I'm one of them. Been playing for about 6-7 years on both and still didn't reach the highest point on either) DbD is the EXACT same way, unless you're willing to spend more money ON TOP of the money you already spent on the base game, you aren't getting all the content the game has to offer.

The newer you are the worst it is, since you don't even know how to deal with anything. Watching videos or some one telling you will only get you so far since you need actual experience to fully understand what's going on. And as a new player I could see how demotivating it could be to see everyone with paid content while you're over here with the base game. That'll either lead them to 2 paths. They spend money themselves, or quit the game.

Last time DBD when F2P was on the Epic store and we still are suffering the consequences. I get it though, the grind is still pretty insane for new players and it takes a long time to get all the perks on every character (let alone every character).

But I do not at all support F2P after the cheater apocalypse that resulted from the Epic free giveaway

DBD is not pay 2 win at all whatsoever in the slightest and in case you've been completely unaware of the games hacking problem, should never go Free to Play.

In fact, i'd rather they increase the base price and unlock some of the older Non-licensed chapters with the game (Feng, Ace)