Enough is enough...

And how would a killer differentiate between a coordinated full SWF with voicechat from a SoloQ squad at the start of the game? Should I risk the possibility for survivors to be coordinated and let them do 3 gens in less than 2 minutes because the possibility of them not being Gen Rushing?

Having 4 survivors at 3 gens could mean a lost game, having 4 survivors at 2 gens is a lost game unless you stack up regression perks, have a good 3 gen situation and they start to pile up mistakes. As long as survivors can Gen Rush tunneling would not only be a necessity, it would be most effective to do at the start of the game to take out one survivor ASAP.

Not only that, but most of the time tunneling is only doable if the survivors allow you to do it. While you are tunneling that one survivor there is at least two of them totally free to do gens undisturbed, and with the basekit BT unless you can hit the unhooked survivor the moment he touch the ground the chase would be longer than usual. Stop doing unsafe unhooks in front of the killer, stop going "Hero mode x 3" and going all in to the rescue, and you would see how you would make less appealing for the killer to tunnel.

"How can this be a good experience for anyone?" The real question is "Why the killer has to sacrifice his chance of winning so it can be a good experience for you?". Stop pretending like you having fun in a competitive game is most important than people playing it optimally.

I wanna be able to end killer game play as fast as you can ours

Easy, get into a SWF with voicechat and coordinate well. By the time the killer is going to do his second hook you would have all gens done.

But remember me again why killers should worry about you having fun when obviously you, like all survivors, don't give a damn about theirs.

So, another survivor main that don't play the game optimally to win but still thinks he has the right to claim for others to not play competitively in a competitive game because he is entitled to have fun. What a surprise! I didn't hear this one before...

If you weren't playing as a "swat team", it is your fault. Gen rushing is a thing and DbD is a competitive game. You can't seriously ask for killers to play like it is not just because you don't want to play the game seriously.

Lol first off it's she and I'm offended that you would assume that I'm a male.

And secondly I'm sure that if there was a poll for the player base everyone would see that it's mostly casual people that play the game. To wind down after work and just have a chill time.

But keep assuming..

No I never once said that. But what is the POINT in SLUGGING all 4 survivors at 5 GENS? you're not being Gen rushed, you're not being anything. I'm speaking from games that I've been having. If people don't do it. Good for you, but to those who do then yes, it's sucking the fun out of the game for everyone "but it's fun to me and now you're saying I can't have fun" if you waited 5 mins just to slug everyone maybe take a break. Disney dreamlight is fun 😊

Accuse me of assuming for using correct generic grammar, proceeds to assume 100% of the player base are casuals in a ranked competitive game... k.

Nothing more to say.

And where do you get that 5% SWF? Just curious.

And the difference is I'm not ruining someone else day, I'm just playing optimally in a competitive game taking in count that I could encounter other people playing that way. Again, you can't expect other to not play to win just because you want to play chill and "have fun".

Also, I said that because was the OP who suggested that tunneling at the start of the game against SoloQ is a no-no. Even if it was a no-no, the killer don't have a way to tell they are a SWF until the late game.

Well... for starts, the main reward for Killers to not tunnel got deleted. That being BBQ stacks.

For seconds, MMR got put in place. As a system, MMR encourages the players to go hard and never let up. For the Killer side that means tunneling. For Survivors it means gen rushing. For a casual game, DBD's old match making was a lot better other than emblems being real mean to some killers.

i guess i misremembered, there was a dev stream where they said the percent of 4 person SWF was around 8.5% and I thought it was something different. same ballpark though

most people don't see dbd as a competetive game but rather a party game, and the reason they don't like people camping and tunneling is because they think someone optimizing a party game and treating public matches as if they were not only a competetive game but also a match being played for money is unfun.

as i said, if you want to avoid SWFs, simply dodge until you get people trickling into the lobby, but given that you like to play competetively maybe you should actively seek out SWFs since that's the environment you're looking for

I always find funny that people keep telling to players that get a SWF and then complain about SFW being too strong and should be removed lmao

I thought this too. I just keep laughing about it. "The only way to beat a tunneling camping slugging killer is to get yerself a nice sweaty team with comms" (proceeds to say that swf is broken and shouldnt be apart of the game)

I'm confused 😕

Do you realize that is the point of my comment, right? Because they are saying tunneling ends too fast a survivors and should be removed? Just saying.

And I didn't see anyone (seriously) arguing SWF should be removed, but gen rushing with a coordinated SWF is the reason for a lot of things killers do in their game, starting with tunneling and ending with stacking gen regression perks with Eruption + CoB. So yeah, do something about the gen progression and then we can talk about tunneling and such.

"by nature and design" lol. lmao. the game was clearly designed and marketed as a fun party game, a lot of the early marketing in particular was centered around the idea of the KYF being a primary game mode

I'd also point out the two games you've mentioned are symmetrical games (not asymmetrical like dbd) and are not the most modern iteration of their franchise/style. most casual tetris players likely play on their phones, some facebook app, or maybe a website if they're feeling spicy. most casual smash players will be playing ultimate (not melee) on their switch. the reason those specific games are seen as competetive is because only the competetive players are left playing it. dbd, by comparison, is still very active among all sorts of players.

i'll also note that anecdotally, basically everyone i know who plays DBD shares my attitude that its casual, and this goes for both survivors and killers. most of the (small minority of) super sweaty players i know even recognize its a party game and that although they enjoy playing it competitively its not the only way, or even the primary way, to play

Not to mention, a 'omgwtf' level of terrible killer game is, what, 22k blood points? 16k if you don't get a single hook all game? Pretty sure you can clear 25k just by kicking gens and never injuring anyone.

Lethal pursuer, first chase, face camped to death as survivor can be as low as like 2k if you didn't even get to touch a gen once. Couple of those in a row and it's time to take a break.

Yes, by nature and design, as any zero-sum game. Being symmetrical or asymmetrical is not relevant (BTW, fighting games its what is called "Partial asymmetrical"), what is relevant is that again, someone wins, someone lose.

And I gave you that two examples because those was two competitive "party" games that their player base turned in a high skill competitive game. That doesn't means a party game is not competitive, only that now because how it is played someone requires top play for being good at the game. So in Smash Bros you either find people to play it at low skill level as a party fun game, or if you want to play the main ranked mode you either play to get good or you would lose. And if you don't find fun in getting good at it, again, is your problem.

And you are misunderstanding "cooperate with your friends" with "party game". One of the selling points of any team multiplayer game is cooperating with your friends, that doesn't means it is a low skill party game. Are games like Overwatch or CoD party games just because I can do a squad with friends? Your argument don't make any sense.

Again, a zero-sum game with a ranked system where people are rewarded or punished for winning or losing, where two teams compete against each other and where you need some degree of skill to be good at it, but is not a high skill competitive game... is that really so hard to understand?

Efficient survivor play revolves around the tunneling and removal of generators. Efficient killer play likewise is removing one player from the game as fast as possible. Things like Borrowed time base kit have only made me tunnel harder than ever. Why? Because SWF is completely broken and has been for 6 years with no limitation. Also we have videos were it is "routine" to make one generator take 35 seconds. That's completely absurd.

Actually their stats showed that something like 55% of players at that time played every game in a SWF.

The 8% figure was 4 man SWF teams. In my experience a lot more people play SWF all the time now.

This guy gets it.

My highlight of the day is coming on the forums and reading these posts and comments. I cannot take this stuff serious.

oh I see, you're using a different definition of "competetive" than i expected

you meant "you are playing against someone else and not just exclusively cooperatively," not "it is an esport" which is what I assumed

yeah the fact that you're going against other people is, imo, not reason enough to be disrespectful to someone else's experience by intentionally ending it early (for either side)

efficient survivor gameplay revolves around splitting pressure around the map as much as possible. i can't tell you how many killer games i've won off the back of finding all the survivors grouped up.

35 second generators are not "routine" and require ridiculous amounts of luck, setup and coordination. you see the 35 second generator but not the 5 minutes of setup to get to that point (although, that said, gen speedup perks could absolutely do with a nerf and when gens happen that fast it is a problem)

it was that 55% of games had a SWF, not that 55% of people played in a SWF all the time, those are two very different concepts. my experience disagrees with yours with regards the percent of SWFs in the game increasing. I played about a dozen killer games last night, I had one 4-person SWF, one group of 3 with a random, and a handful where I suspected there might be a pair and two randoms, but the majority seemed to be solo queue only. Even if that were the case, the SWFs I was playing against for the most part were easy to win against still and not like the stereotypical sweaty SEAL Team 6 everyone seems to worry about