This is how tunnelling should be nerfed
Its clear that tunnelling will always be an issue, yes its a "strategy" but it becomes obnoxious when 9/10 games that's all you ever see.
I propose a cap on tunnelling. How it would work would be by the following;
- If killer tunnels to win in a game
- The next 2 games the killer will be unable to hit the same player twice
- If the killer rage quits/dc's in any of these two games, it will add +1 to the tunnelling cooldown timer
This would not only make the game fun again, it would make the game fluid again too!
Comments
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Tunneling is usually defined as a toxic trait rather than the killer "just playing the game" and so this solution in this context just doesn't make sense.
Even if it's just the context is the killer just playing the game, there are so many different situations that you cannot just say "this" and make it work like that in terms of who the killer goes after.
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I am certain that tunneling should get addressed. This is not the way to go.
As of now I think the best way would be to revert DS nerf, but that might be lack of my imagination. Anyway OP's suggestion is not the way to go. Previous games should not limit you in what you can and can't do IMO
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Ok. Fine. Its fair if survivor is doing only gens and will not doing totems and heals as well then next 2 games he should not repair the gens or do anything what he did not in the last match. So if you´re gen rushing you will be in next match able to just heal, do totems, unhook teammates. If you were not doing gens and you were healing or farming unhook points then next time you should not be allowed to do it but the rest of it you would be allowed. Fair, huh?
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i do think they should give survivors being tunneled more, like base kit boil over and a faster wiggle, just so they cannot be tunnel out but don't hold your breath for them to do anything about it this decade
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what should the killer do if the survivor will just run and bb the killer?
even now many survivors abuse free time and body block, imagine if they could do this indefinitely it would be absolutely stupid
and hey, have you ever wondered why killers tunnel? maybe if we start treating the disease and not the symptom it will make the game better for everyone side
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More punitive action for someone doing something you don't like in a game. Why are people like this?
Also: what is tunneling? Define it.
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first days after 6.1 killers were winning left and right. There was hardly ANY game survivors have won. And yet I have never seen so much camping and tunneling ever before or since then. This should be your cue about how people will behave if "underlying issue why killers tunnel is solved".
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At one point in time tunnelling was a toxic trait yes, but when it's in 9/10 of my games every day this clearly shows that its evolved into more than just a trait. This is why I would like it addressed.
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I disagree, especially if it's so common now that you just expect it in almost every single game you play. It has taken out killer playstyle variety.
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I kind of see what you're trying to say but the way you kill a survivor isn't the objective. So what you're implying doesn't make sense.
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I thought about that too but then it would make survivors want to be tunnelled, it would be better to just put a cap on tunnelling for killers so they're forced to play differently for 2/3 games.
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I don't understand how your first two sentences have any relevance to tunnelling. Elaborate?
I am trying to suggest a potential fix for tunnelling without having it removed from the game completely, this is the most logical suggestion and it would be for the overall benefit of the game.
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- The next 2 games the killer will be unable to hit the same player twice
the survivor will get hit and bodyblock the killer
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That's a simple fix, all the coders have to do is set a parameter where if the survivor is X amount of distance in front of you and there is another survivor X amount of distance in front of them it cancels out the change.
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Why do we need to change tunneling again?
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The killer should never be forced to go after another survivor. There's nothing wrong with tunneling and the killer should be able to focus a survivor out of the game since that is their only objective.
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I have one question for you. Do you think that its normal to have 3 gens done in two minutes? And its not something heroic. Its possible with good coordination and now with all that info uts possible even more. I have as a survivor gen done in One minute. With toolbox. Beng... gen is done and few seconds after BANG... another gen is done. Then two minutes after BANG another gen is done. So its 4 minutes and 3 gens. And mostly only with one hook. You can see as a killer if they are organized or not. So if they are organized you must choose the weakest part of their team and eliminate it. Then its 3 people but even then. With good coordination if you don´t have Bubba or Infinite Myers its very difficult to defend hook against players what now what to do. Even as a solo I saw incredible combacks where killer ended with two hooks only no matter how much tunneling or camping he was. Thats reason why tunneling and camping is a thing. Its not for no reason, but beccause survivors forced him to do it. For example in the last game I made a chase where I was chased for 4 gens. Then killer got me and then it was obvious enough that if I will be unhooked and gens will not be completed then that killer will tunnel me as hell. But when my teammates were good. More than good, then we ended match and I escaped. I´m planning to start with survivors videos where I will show people how it looks like when you know how to loop and super powerful tool is Windows of oportunity. which is perfect tool for avoiding tunneling. If you are able to be chased for long enough time, then you will be rewarded with pip even if you don´t escape. But most of the time I have that experience that we are winning against tunnelers.
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If killer chase me of a gen I'm tunneling that gen going back to it instead of starting another one. How will you punish survivor for gen tunneling? Both sides tunnel and both strategies makes the other side lose. It is what it is.
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It's more of a problem of Gen progression VS. Gen regression
Gen progression is 1.0 for soloing a Gen and 2.2 for all 4 were on a Gen
And Gen regression is .25... and a 2.5% loss of progress
And %'s don't matter in the grand scheme of things
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So first 3 gens are as important as last 2 or end game? I had games where killer had 1 hook after 4 gens completed (even without so called "gen rush"), but it ended in 4k regardless.
Actually it's not even rare. It might do something with the fact that the longer the game plays, the more killer sides it becomes.
First 3 gens popping in 1st chase means almost nothing. Just a bit worse first chase or maybe some nasty toolboxes. The game is usually decided at 2-0 gens and the result is clear from dev stats - ~60% kill rare.
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I don't think that's good idea solution should be to nerf tunneling maybe with ds basekit which would disable killer power for 10s and probably rework eruption as now it only supports tunneling. Also probably survivor should receive longer speed buff and be 110% speed for 30s after unhook. But then killers will need buffs to compensate as kill rates would drop as that strat carries most killers and at higher level is not just possible to win without it unless you play nurse and blight well and even they still tunnel as it's most effient thing to do even if they don't need to. So give killers basekit pop, speed boost after hook and corrupt invertion at least to bit slow down games. Also every killers should be buffed accordingly. Myers need his stalk mechanic updated and tier 3 to be more threatening. Oni needs bigger lunge and should have dash ability without power etc...
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Let me put a killer spin on that:
"Its clear that finishing gens will always be an issue, yes its a "strategy" but it becomes obnoxious when 9/10 games that's all you ever see."
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Because its not a strategy at this point, you may as well call it base-game kit you see it so many times.
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The issue here isn't tunnelling itself, it's the fact that tunnelling is ALL I SEE. It needs changing because of that. No other strategy exists at this point.
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3 gens done in under 2 minutes means your first chase is taking way too long to do, skill issue. You need to be faster. Read other posts of mine for an answer to the rest.
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There's no such thing as gen tunnelling, please have a look what tunnelling means.
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Your reply makes 0 sense. Doing gens is the objective, not selectively picking one survivor because you don't like the fact that he has TTV in his name or you decided that because it took you more than 2 minutes to get the knock its time to tunnel just him and completely blank everyone else, that's a killer issue and not a survivor issue.
The only way to fix tunnelling would be to put a cap on it, it would force killers to actually learn how to play the game. It would also hit the root cause of tunnelling, which is the fact that it is way too common for a game that's supposed to have multiple strats when you only see 1 of the so called "strats" in 90% of your games. LIKE WHAT??
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I also already proposed that more gens should be added, along with a complete overhaul of a lot of things, I don't believe it got any traction on the forums and just got ignored by everyone anyway. If anyone is interested, here is the link.
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It was a joke to illustrate that the post is just as "out there". They're both pertaining to completing objectives. The circumstance you use doesn't happen every time, and doesn't happen to every survivor, nor every game. That circumstance could be given a killer spin too, "Killing the survivors is the objective, not selectively picking one generator because you don't like the speed or working alone, or you decided that because it took you more than 2 minutes to finish the first gen it's time to tunnel just that one gen and completely forget about the other gens."
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This is how gen rushing should be nerfed.
You can have only one person on a generator and after every 15 seconds of repairing they need to do a 5 second dance from Fortnite. Then they need to howl at the moon. If no dogs start barking then the generator explodes. Then they can continue repairing the generator.
If a second person does join in repairing the generator, then all survivors are inflicted by Deep Wound, Hemorrhaging, Mangled and lose a health state.
If you brought an iri cog into the match then you should be banned from matchmaking for 2 minutes after the match.
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Gens done too fast = puts killer in dire straights
Killer in dire straights = employment of desperate measures
Desperate measures = camping, tunneling, slugging
Over time the killer player is conditioned to expect fast generators and therefore will start to camp, tunnel or slug in anticipation of how the flow of matches typically goes.
I'm starting to notice that most people want things like tunneling, camping and slugging straightout punished instead of addressing the root cause, but then I understand that too, because if the root cause of tunneling, camping and slugging were actually looked into, it would ultimately mean making it so that gens couldn't be completed at the lightning speeds we see now.
Evidently, survivors scoring 60% total completion before the killer even gets to 8.3% on average is seen as "fun." Since survivors are the majority and money generally makes everything suck, BHVR is reluctant to make anything but slight, meaningless adjustments for killers. If it's easy to put the killer into dire straights, then you obviously can't start taking away the only options they have in response, unless you simultaneously address what's putting killers into dire straights so fast in the first place.
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See that's where you're wrong, today I've had about 10 or so games where the killer has tunnelled just me but it's not been too bad, but every single other time I've played since the DH, BO, and DS nerf, either myself or someone else has been tunnelled. It's happening a lot more than you're making it out to be. If need be I will screen shot and post EVERY single game I play from this point onwards to prove it.
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ah. 60% nonsense again. Sure it's 60%. Because after each gen a new one will spawn. Because after each chase a destroyed pallet is spawn again. First 3 gens have absolutely the same value as killer's 1st hook. Sure. Oh. Or maybe the game was designed so that survivors are the strongest at the beginning and weakest towards the end of the game and calling 60% of objectives done when first 3 gens pop is utter nonsense (not to mention endgame - a strongest part of game for killer). I have seen a lot of games end up in 4K that had 0-1hook when last gen poped (yes even killers that are so bad that they can't catch 2 survivors during 5 gens time can still win in this game).
Which is strange considering that by your definition survivors were 100% done with everything.
And as for your Since survivors are the majority and money generally makes everything suck - there's one very easy way to invalidate this statement. ~60% kill rate. Even for best 5% of players. Official stats. If devs were unbiased, then the number would be 50%. If devs held survivor's side it would be 40%. But it's 60%. Go and figure out what's happening
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So ?
As long as tunneling is the best tactic in play to be able to win, it is obvious that it will happen more and more often.
You don't need any nerfs, you need to give the killers something that has a higher value than tunneling.
For example a version of dyling light or tanatophobia as a basekit, the more hooks the killer makes the more malus the survivors have to repair the generators, in this way a killer want to do less tunnel and more hooks.
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You can make it so that the killer cannot pick up the survivor if he was only unhooked within 3 minutes
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extremely doubtful, killer mains would have a meltdown if bhvr tried to fix tunneling, tunneling is the easiest and most effective way to win, the community has been begging for mercy from camping and tunelling for years so......
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So there is nothing to fix with tunnelling/camping/slugging because there is nothing wrong with those tactics.
You just said yourself, those are the most effective way to win, why as Killer i should not use them ?
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No. When I play killer, the only time I tunnel is when I encounter a teabagging tryhard who thinks they are a clever "runner/looper" for their team. Teabag me after a failed pallet stun or a clean vault? Tunnel until death. Taunt me with the flashlight? Tunnel until death. I no longer care about the other 3 survivors until that first lucky winner of stupid prizes for playing stupid games is dead. No, don't take away my toxic revenge for toxic behaviour. You're basically asking for Behavior to ban the ability to be toxic on one side... nope... sorry kiddo.
Also, if you're getting tunnelled 9 out of 10 games, you really need to start evaluating your game play. If you were good at the game, you'd know that being tunnelled isn't necessarily a bad thing as you could keep the killer busy while your team pops gens and you all escape happy. So, it sounds like you aren't good at running. Also, if it's occurring 9 out of 10 times, this also means that you're terrible at stealth as you seem to be getting caught... a lot. Basically, people who post stuff like this need to look in the mirror and come to grips with the fact that they need to get better at the game instead of looking for participation awards.
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1st, they need to solve ability of survivors to do gens under 5 minutes. Then we can talk.
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Being able to loop killer for eternity is great way how to win the game. I have two builds what are absolutely perfect for looping and being a support. I´m looking for them most of the time. Its amazing practicing to find the killer. Give him straght and norrow sight at you and then start with chase. Lithe, Windows of Oportunity, Inner Healing and Small game/Counterforce. And second buld is We´ll make it, Botany Knowledge and 150% healing speed is atrociously hilarious, Prove Thyself, Bond/Empathy. Thats how I climbed to the high level. With these builds its very easy to practice game from both sides of objectives. Especially that heal build. Imagine speed of healing while We´ll make it, Prove Thyself and Botany Knowledge are in game at one time. Its really. REALLY hilarious how fast you can heal as survivor.
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Looping is great advantage against tunneling. Do you know how I learned how to loop properly? Run builds what literally force you to think twice in very fast intense way. Like No mitter, Resilience, Prove Thyself and Windows of Oportunity. This build will help you to improve looping as nothing else. Because you have only ONE chance. And thats thinking fast where and how to loop to not get hit. This build is "do it or die" build. Risky, but very effective after while.
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This is how genrushing should be nerfed
Its clear that genrushing will always be an issue, yes its a "strategy" but it becomes obnoxious when 9/10 games that's all you ever see.
I propose a cap on genrushing. How it would work would be by the following;
- If survivor is genrushing to win in a game
- The next 2 games the survivor will be unable to work on a gen
- If the survivor rage quits/dc's in any of these two games, it will add +1 to the genrushing cooldown timer
This would not only make the game fun again, it would make the game fluid again too!
See how ridiculous that sounds if you flip the coin? Getting a survivor out of the game quickly or being efficient on gens are valid strategys (yes it IS a strategy even though you don't like to admit that given that you put quotation marks on strategy) to win the game. It is in the best interest of both sides to beat the other that's how the game works. If you don't like getting tunelled maybe play another game because it makes no sense whatsoever to "balance" it. A 3v1 is much easier to deal with thatn a 4v1.
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What do you mean SO?
Its just like what's happening in call of duty right now, SO MANY WEAPONS and everyone in the BR is choosing LMG's, which is the next nerf that's about to be dished out for the next season.
Just because its a tactic doesn't mean it should be in 90 PERCENT + of games. That's abysmal stats for a game that boasts about having "multiple strategies" to win.
Everyone here complaining that tunnelling should not be nerfed are the main reason why it needs to be nerfed, so they're forced to learn how to play the game and not ruin the fun for 1 person. You want SWF bully squads addressed yes? Then I want Tunnelling addressed.
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Good idea but 3 minutes is too long, it would become an issue instantly. Especially since gens take 90s to do without any perks/toolboxes.
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Ah yes, the "you're being tunnelled almost every game so you must definitely be teabagging the killer, it must not have anything to do with the fact that you have TTV in your name" argument. I didn't know that your reasons of why you tunnel people accounts for the other 99% of killers.
I should not need to sweat hard enough that it'll fill up the entire ocean every single game, I should not be forced to run the same boring 4 perks when there's an entire catalogue of perks in the game, I should not need to be tunnelled every game AND left on the hook at the end of it while my teammates gen rush and leave me to die on the hook.
Maybe just stop and actually think about what you've wrote. I have over 7K hours in the game, I know how to take chase, that's not the point here, the point of this post isn't about my skill issue, it's about TUNNELLING, Stick to it or don't post please, thanks.
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You said it yourself buddy, tunnelling is easy mode for killers, it should be harder than that to win.
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You mean like survivors needed to learn extremly easy skillchecks and holdin M1 on gen? Yes. Killers are definitely the ones who has to learn something. :D
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Healing builds are ridiculously fun. My go to at one point was, Autodidact, WGLF, Stake out and Botany Knowledge, picked up someone at the gate in under 6s or something stupid after he got knocked lol.
I'm fine with chases but I'm just completely sick and tired of there being no other strategy that's dominant. If stats showed that it was split 33% each for tunnelling/camping/slugging I'd honestly be fine with it. Hook camping has kind of completely gone now though, I hardly see it except for the escape phase.
And as for your reply above, they need to add more objectives in general, it's too easy to reach end game phase with just 5 gens, we need another incentive, more gens, different types of objectives, and an abundance of ideas need to be added to the game to expand it's playerbase.
I feel like the amount of perks we're able to equip should increase too, we should be able to have 5 equip-able perks for survivors and 6 for killers, as well as more gens to do in general, or maybe the survivors have to find a pipe that's below the ground on the map to activate all the generators, which the killer is unable to see and the spawn point is random, that would instantly slow the game down. What do you think?
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Please can you not comment if you're going to propose something which makes 0 sense, you can only repair a gen, you can't repair a gen 3 different ways.
And by the way my issue isn't with tunnelling, its that tunnelling is too common for a game that is supposed to have multiple strategies to win.
And I did stop playing, I deleted the game for a while, but now that I'm back it's the same thing.
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That's another thing I noticed, it's waay too easy to get 4k as a killer. I believe that's another reason why there's bully SWF squads, also because of the huge influx of tunnelling from killers, and survivors naturally want their revenge.
I do think new objectives do need to be added to the game for both sides to make it more interesting.
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