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Otzdarva: On Tunneling Being 'Worse'.

StarLost
StarLost Member Posts: 8,077

TL/DR:

  • Gens can go way faster than they did pre 6.1.0, due to a lot of regression perks getting nerfed and some 'faster gen' perks being insane especially in SWFs.
  • 'Nice guy' killer builds are less viable/useful, due to the nerf to BBQ, Pop etc.
  • Camping is less effective as a 'hail Mary' strategy.

It's an interesting take. Not quite sure where I come down on this or if there's a solution.

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Comments

  • Phasmamain
    Phasmamain Member Posts: 11,534

    A lot of this does come down to perks because they do influence how people play in major ways. The current meta for killer is perks that all basically work the same or better when tunnelling one survivor which encourages the strategy even more

    If more “Nice guy” perks were introduced or buffed (Like pop or grim embrace for example) while it would fully stop tunnelling it would definitely reduce it

  • Piruluk
    Piruluk Member Posts: 995

    I mean he played Demo of all things, one of the worst killer in the game, so of course he lost very badly.

    Demo is so weak, I really hate that killer so much, so boring, so weak. Of course even OTZ will lose with demo playing nicely

  • Marik1987
    Marik1987 Member Posts: 1,700

    Actually current Grim Embrace is a fine design. Its just not worth atm. They should split it into 2 survs = 20sec, another 2 survs = new 30 sec.

    Get rewards for playing the nice way.

  • Marik1987
    Marik1987 Member Posts: 1,700

    Good part: The Killer-Passes should follow next midchapter. At least I hope so.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,203

    If BT or OTR are active and you take a hit, then another hit and go down so you can use your DS, you’re still exhausted unless you run the killer and they slug till your exhaustion wears out. So you can’t really string BT/OTR into DS into DH without the killer basically allowing it. It’s a play that could theoretically work but because DS was weakened it doesn’t really. You don’t have enough time to get away & killers aren’t afraid of DS. FWIW, Otz doesn’t even use it in his own survivor games anymore.

  • RaSavage42
    RaSavage42 Member Posts: 5,566

    It's the fact that base Gen regression doesn't even compare to base progression

    Then add in Gen perks... there's more Killer then Survivor

    The highest regression rate is 400% (which is the same as base progression) which is 2 perks combined (Call Of Brine and Overcharge) and it only lasts for 30 seconds

    The highest 22.5% (Pop and base)

    Corrupt blocks the 3 farthest Gen (from the Killer's spawn) for 120 seconds and Deadlock blocks the Gen with the most progression for 30 seconds

    Prove Thyself removes 15% of Gen slowdown when multiple Survivors are on the Gen

    Toolboxes save about 20 or so seconds

    BNP's auto complete 25% of a Gen in about 5 seconds give or take

  • Mistseer
    Mistseer Member Posts: 21
    edited February 2023

    OTz in all honesty is trying his best to bring to light the reason why killers have to be more savage and tunnel. a lot of matches ive been in where the killer spread out the hooks gave them no kills, and right now kills are the "Condition" for Merciless Killer, honestly the double pip should have stayed the req

  • Mistseer
    Mistseer Member Posts: 21

    isnt the only Exhasustion perk in the combo Dead Hard? so it is perfectly viable to string those together?

  • SpaghettiVase
    SpaghettiVase Member Posts: 341

    Exactly, that's why I was confused by their point. It's perfectly possible (if not extremely viable) to string all those perks together as Exhaustion goes away on hook and Deep wound goes away on down.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,203

    you’re right, that was my mistake. Thank you for correcting me.

  • GrimReaperJr1232
    GrimReaperJr1232 Member Posts: 1,713

    Oh, I'm aware. It's just that the common (incorrect) consensus is that DS sucks and shouldn't be used anymore.

  • Emeal
    Emeal Member Posts: 5,294

    Tunneling is part of the game, I dont see why It would be 'fixed'

  • usesPython
    usesPython Member Posts: 121
    edited February 2023

    If you're below the MMR softcap without tunneling or camping (Which lets be real, everyone here supporting the necessity of tunneling would be below it if they didn't, and might be below it even while tunneling) then it's absolutely not necessary. The reason why? Matchmaking is terrible.

    It's wide enough that I can get anything from 12 hooks at 5 gens without tunneling or camping with chill builds to 0 hook games while playing as sweaty as possible, a single game from Otz doesn't really prove anything. Of course not tunneling will lower your kill rate compared to tunneling, the important question that wasn't answered however is "Does avoiding tunneling lower the kill rate to an unacceptable level if you're at the correct non-tunneling MMR?".

    For Otz? Maybe, the guys a killer main with thousands of hours whos job it is to play this game.

    For regular players? Probably not, they'd eventually start getting faced with survivors they can deal with without tunneling at which point tunneling wouldn't be necessary.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,671

    It is objectively not easier to tunnel now, it’s harder, that’s just fact. Built in BT, OTR being a better DS and while weaker DS still existing and even Reassurance to top it all off. We can argue more people tunnel now than before but to say it’s easier is just false.

    Unless you are playing one of the higher tier killers or the survivors are making a ton of mistakes you are required to tunnel at higher mmr against equally very good survivors.

    Most matches in the game you do not need to tunnel, but against equally skilled very good and higher mmr players you do.

  • Murgleïs
    Murgleïs Member Posts: 1,105
    edited February 2023

    Because it felt more rewarding to play for hooks before the meta change, even myself on nurse was mostly going for BBQ stacks during this era before trying to murder everyone. Addons were more expensive so I had to make enough BP to refund them.

    Victory should feel more satisfying for killer. If the game said gg when you got a lot of hooks but no kills, instead of the entity being displeased, it would feel way better and killers would play fun / meme builds instead. Back the day it was "disgraceful defeat" for 0k. What is considered a win has to change. It's OK if both sides wins. It is a casual game after all.


    It's the same for survivor also, you should get BP for struggling on phase 2, and be considered a hero for the team if your sacrifice helped the 3 other survivors escape instead of being considered a loser.