Killer camping
There are too many killers holding the game hostage by camping hook.. this could be solved if hook progression would pause after the killer has been in close proximity for too long. That way survivors could have a fair chance.
Comments
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There are too many killers holding the game hostage by camping hookCamping is not holding the game hostage.
this could be solved if hook progression would pause after the killer has been in close proximity for too longSurvivors would force the Killer into a loop and force the timer to pause or for the Killer to leave & allow unsafe unhooks.
Source: They tried this. Survivors abused it.
I will say it again: Camping is not holding the game hostage. The hooked Survivor can still die. Other Survivors can still do gens. NOTHING about camping is holding the game hostage.
I swear; 'Holding the game hostage' has become some sort of buzzword warcry for Survivors. Anything they don't like becomes either 'Unfun', or 'Holds the game hostage', so they can insist on horrible, easily abused changes.
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Many people have suggested this, and it doesnt change the fact that is a horribly abusable concept.
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They finally got it into their heads that whatever their opinion of camping and tunneling is, it's not reportable. So now "holding the game hostage"(which is reportable) is the new fallback complaint when they want something changed.
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You forgot the "There is no counter play to it" to complete the saint trinity of the survivor main mindset.
Everything a killer does needs to have some kind of clear and easy counter, being fun for the survivor or simply allow them to play/win however they want or it should be nerfed or banned, as it's written in their holy book "The Survivor Morals Rulebook".
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No, this could be solved giving a killer a reward for not camping.
What if, if i move away at least 24 mt all gens slow down by 5% ? Or if i move away 24 mt one gen is blocked by the entity for the time you are on the hook ?
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We both forgot the fourth comment: "It gives free kills."
Survivors will claim ANY Killer tactic/perk/power does any (or all) of these four things:
- It gives free kills!
- There's no counter play!
- It holds the game hostage!
- It's unfun!
And promptly say whatever 'it' is should either be removed, Killers should be banned for doing it, or suggest some easy to abuse counter mechanic for Survivors to enjoy. 😂
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this is a good idea and you need to make it so that the killer cannot use the ability at the hook, the same nurse is a fan of teleporting, or even worse if it's a bubba with a chainsaw
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While we are at it let’s remove the killers legs if they are next to the hook for more than 0.2 seconds and also give survivors 3 health states
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Its a game element. Just go there with 2-3 people and free him.
The killer cannot camp the hook and win the game since you can do all the other gens in that time. And besides Bubba and hilbilly nobody can do something against it. But the strongest you can do against "killer camping" is just doing gens and win the game. But ofc, if im close to a hook and i see 2 suv. approching, why should i leave the area of the hook?
And its not "holding the game hostage" you can still make gens and finish the game. There are also talents for suvivor to pause the hook progression. If you think thats a problem just pick it.
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Camping is not "holding the game hostage", its holding YOU hostage
Holding the game hostage is making it so the other side cannot progress their objective. You can be camped from first hook until death, and gens will pop, therefore progressing the game, therefore its not being held hostage
When you are camped, the killer is adding extra pressure to survivors by offering a choice-attempt the unhook, risking your safety and potentially getting you camped in exchange for keeping your teammate alive, or continue to do generators, letting your teammate die and making the game progress slower for survivors.
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goofy survivors think the killer is camping them
smart surv understand that it is they who camp the killer without letting go of the hook
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I've said it a million times----a hook-camping killer who sees Survivors start three gens and be headed for the exits by the time the Survivor he's camping is fully sacked, and then sees his de-pip and lousy BP score afterward, generally won't be a hook-camping Killer for much longer.
It sucks right out loud for the person being camped, but this is the kind of game where, every now and again, somebody has to take one for the team. It happens to me, too......today, in fact. :)
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good idea how to motivate the killer. After the killer hangs a survivor, a bonus is imposed on him for 20 seconds - he needs to kick the generator and he regresses by 10%, but if the time runs out, then 25% of the progress will be applied to all generators.
This again affects toxic campers at hooks that ruin the game, but normal and good killers will have an additional bonus / mechanic.
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-"Camping is not "holding the game hostage", its holding YOU hostage"
-"Holding the game hostage is making it so the other side cannot progress their objective. You can be camped from first hook until death, and gens will pop, therefore progressing the game, therefore its not being held hostage"
We could literally end the thread right here.
"There are too many killers ... camping hook"
I'm going to pretend this is what you said. Technically you did say this but this quote is out of context. As a killer I camp the hook as a reaction to gen rushing.
If you go for the earliest possible save instead of trying to finish your generator then your survivor friend gets off the hook. If a gen pops then he won't be coming off without a trade or your friend going to stage two. And since they are in stage two I will immediately tunnel them out.
Survivors finishing their objective as fast as possible makes killers camp and tunnel. When will survivors learn?
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stupid logic for this reason, the dbd community is toxic.
what do you think about this idea? there are rewards for the killer but also punishment if he decides to toxic camp at the hook
good idea how to motivate the killer. After the killer hangs a survivor, a bonus is imposed on him for 20 seconds - he needs to kick the generator and he regresses by 10%, but if the time runs out, then 25% of the progress will be applied to all generators.
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You're holding the game hostage by doing gens too fast. Basekit Deadlock when?
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Hooking a fresh survivor needs to have a reward base kit. Why go for someone who needs two hits? Why not go for the same person again? Why would you ever do anything besides hook the first person three times in a row?
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This is the problem why players leave the game.
The developers do nothing about it.
Let the developers make it so that if the killer decides to hook a survivor who was just unhooked within 2 minutes, then all generators will instantly increase the progress of 25% as a punishment.
I just don’t understand why it’s so dirty and toxic to play spoiling the game for everyone.
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The devs allow for the killer to lose 2-3 gens in the first chase. The only way he catches up is to then eliminate one player from the game. And you want to punish the killer for trying to play efficiently? Meanwhile the survivors are playing efficiently and that should just be allowed?
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I'm over it. I'm at the point where I want to be face camped. Tunnel me. Chase me, whatever. And I bring toxic perks and T bag at pallets and windows. Come at me emotes, clicky click. All good. Some DS, DH, OTR and deliverance.
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Then you need to give another task to the survivors and make sure that the survivor on the hook is not attractive to the killer.
There is a crazy idea with ghosts, but it will definitely reduce toxicity (if anyone has played "Phasmophobia", then it is there, God, even in "Among Us")
When a survivor dies, he turns into a spirit and can repair generators, respectively, the killer cannot do anything to him, or after the blow, the ghost disappears and appears in another place. What is the point? The fact is that normal survivors repair generators more slowly, but as a ghost they repair generators 2-3 times faster. It is not profitable for the killer to kill immediately, but to make all the survivors hang on the hook 1-2 times before dying.
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Then you need to give another task to the survivors and make sure that the survivor on the hook is not attractive to the killer.
There is a crazy idea with ghosts, but it will definitely reduce toxicity (if anyone has played "Phasmophobia", then it is there, God, even in "Among Us")
When a survivor dies, he turns into a spirit and can repair generators, respectively, the killer cannot do anything to him, or after the blow, the ghost disappears and appears in another place. What is the point? The fact is that normal survivors repair generators more slowly, but as a ghost they repair generators 2-3 times faster. It is not profitable for the killer to kill immediately, but to make all the survivors hang on the hook 1-2 times before dying.
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Honestly I encounter face camping nearly every game. I know BHVR likes to pretend this isn't an issue and "oH bUt iF tHe kIlLeR iS cAmPiNg rUsH gEnS."
Spare me that insipid rhetoric. Getting face camped by a Shape and being unable to leave the game because I get put in the uwu time out box is ridiculous.
Just tonight I was camped for over half of the games that I played: tunneling is just because of awful map/level design (and game design,) but that is a whole separate issue.
You always see milquetoast replies from sweaty pseudo captains but we're talking about the individual experience of a player whose game has been completely stalled (and routinely.) It's evident across the forums, people do not like it, and to argue otherwise is an intellectual farce to sound like they have an elevated opinion on the matter.
This doesn't mean Killers should be completely disadvantaged from keeping a survivor on the hook. But jeez, you mean to tell me you can't play the game ANY other way other than just standing with our nip-nops touching? BHVR needs to actually address it and stop posting nonsense on their twitter, and investigate quality of life stuff in the game, instead.
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- You don´t want to hear it, but rush gens. You can be mad about that advice as much as you want, but thats it. Its relevant tactic waht is happening all the time. And do you know how many times after reset of grades I saw players rushing camping Bubba? Is it killer´s fault that they are simpleminded enough to hook rush camping Bubba? Or do you think when killer see that 2 or 3 people are around the hook, which means colosal stupidity, he has some reasons to leave the hook? He know that they are not doing gens. He know that they are here, around the hooked survivor, and thats all he need to know.
- Camping is caused by so many reasons, but most of the time its caused by gens being rushed so hard, where 30 seconds for first gen is not so,mething impossible in my games, because in my games, my teammates, have BnP almost as a common thing if I overexeggerate it. But THE MOST COMMON CAUSE of camping is hook rush when its not neccesarry. I saw so many times like people rush hooks when they see with Kindred that killer is near by the hook and 5 gens are still a thing they stop everything and start to hook rush.
- Many games till I got to high level was like that. Now when I have camping killer in my game for me and for rest of us its easy escape. When I´m camped I´m giving as many time as possible to my teammates to repair gens and escape with me, because unlike you have Bubba, Billy or Infinite Myers you can be asured that survivors what know what to do will mob the floor with killer. With base kitt BT its even easier than before. Distraction after distraction and theere is a little what killer can do. When I saw today how perfectly I was saved by teammates at end game where I was heavily camped it was very impressive to watch. And it was nothing heroical. They just made perfectly timed blocks even without coms. You don´t need it. When I see that they are rushing hook its easy to made distraction. Killer need time to recover from weapon swing and thats a window for other survivor. There is so many tools how to deal with camping yet people are still refusing to do it. Its not rocket science. Just use simple math. You have as a team 120 seconds to unhook him. Do you know how much time it is? 120 seconds in DbD is crucial for most of the actions.
- And tons and tons of things. I can elaborate anything you want how to easily outsmart camping killer. But it require atleast basic knowledge about the game mechanic. Most of the people complaining about camping are begginers. And anytime I want to see how they are playing they refuse, because they are afraid of being debunked. But that doesn´t matter. Their lack of knowledge about the game is displayed by their description of certain situations.
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Why don't killers do that? I mean, we're part of the community, too. Yes, a small part, but necessary. Why don't we demand better conditions for ourselves? WE have to be the voice, because our vote alone is worth 4 votes of the survivors.
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Camping should be penalized only if early on in the game, if you camp at 5 gens surely that' just sadism.
If instead, someone camps at 2 gens left 1st hook because he spawned on garden's of soy with 3bnp what the hell he is supposed to do? Spread pressure through 40 safe pallets?
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I think they should make that hook teleports to another location like pyramid cages if killer stays close proximity but this would disable in endgame and would not work for basement. Also hook grabs should be make more difficult and survivor sided so killer with mc donald's internet can't abuse them to their advantage.
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See if they 3 genned themself and go defend them. Well if not yeah not much else to do than camp and take the L.
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On some maps 3 gen doesn't exist and 3gen with m1 killer is a myth
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Camping a hook is a lazy, sucky tactic. But it isn't holding the game hostage. Killers can't really do that unless they hold down a 3 gen, focus only on regression and don't try to down any survs.
I agree though that face camping hooks needs to be discouraged more than it currently is. BT doesn't help much. And the emblem point loss for hook camping isn't much of a deterrent either.
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Great way to inspire spite camping and push players out of the game maybe.
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-"and make sure that the survivor on the hook is not attractive to the killer."
Hooking someone for the first time needs to be more attractive than hooking the same survivor a second time. You are coming around to the conclusion I've been saying for some time now.
The killer needs to be rewarded for every hook. In order for the reward to be relevant it needs to slow down the survivor objective all on its own. As an example : it should either halt the generator with the most progress for 15 seconds OR regress that generator by 15% base kit.
That's right - I'm suggesting every hook should reduce one generator by at least 15% progress.
That type of radical idea will just make people play two killers and practically nothing else.
The idea of punishing the killer for doing something survivors don't like will not work. The killer needs to be rewarded for doing something that helps keep the game healthy.
Also you CANNOT punish killers who tunnel without addressing survivors who rush gens before making a rescue. Most of the time when I hard camp someone the only time they could be easily rescued is about 5 seconds after the hook when I usually break a nearby pallet or kick a generator. But everyone is too busy thinking about generators before friends.
The only way to punish gens before friends is by hook camping+tunneling.
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I sure do love ideas that punish killers for doing their jobs!
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Do you want survivors to unhook right after hooking while killer turns his back? Weird that is my usual reason to tunnel because that immediatelly reset the pressure I caused by that hook.
Ofcourse teleportation would not happen immediatelly if survivors leave other survivor too long in hook. So last second saves you could still prevent. Anyway I have suggested gens should be increased to 100-110s if camping and tunneling gets nerfed bit.
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-"Anyway I have suggested gens should be increased to 100-110s if camping and tunneling gets nerfed bit."
That's not enough. You cannot touch killer tunneling unless you also curb survivor generator tunneling. Deadlock should become base kit with rollback prevention so that if two gens finish at the exact same time then one is rolled back incomplete and deadlocked. We have hit rollbacks at pallets so this should get the same treatment.
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Camping hook is unfair, doing gens too fast is unfair, tunneling is unfair, using styptic/ insta heal is unfair, slugging is unfair, flashlight saves are unfair... Rename the game into Dead by Unfair.
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Killers where winning before even when gens were 80s and tunneling/camping were less viable. Those 110s gens would be too slow for nurse/blight probably already. Notice my word nerf them "bit". For example making ds back to 5s.
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Blight and Nurse might be "winning" but the other killers are not. It's not fun to play the majority of the killer cast in DBD.
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This is an unbelievable waste of time: nothing you're saying isn't all ready known, and the reply is full of generalizations about individual survivor skills that you're generalizing (which, whatever on that I guess): face camping occurs regardless of survivor skill (just take a look at Demi videos on youtube, he is face-camped incessantly.)
You have a tendency to post very length passages which can be surmised in one sentence or two. Maybe work on that.
So, to your point about rushing gens: yeah, go for it. If you're on the hook at least 2 survivors should be on gens. This is basic and not some hidden advice you get from a level 50 survivor. No duh, lol.
Camping is caused by enumerable reasons from flawed game design, to a perk system which can be abused by survivor bully squads, to killers who know they cannot be punished for doing it. THAT is the discussion here: its the act of holding someone's game hostage, and there being no intelligent or at least thoughtful solution to it.
This doesn't mean it should unbalanced one way or the other: its a risk/reward system, and the reward is largely situational.
Oh I KNOW you can elaborate (and the surface of your keyboard is smooth by now haha.) Nothing you've said hasn't been spoken or understood by others, but the conversation still needs to occur to find a balance between a Killer being able to guard their hooks while keeping the risk/reward factor at the forefront of survivor playing.
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Exactly. All camping does is make average that loves to be or care so much about being Aultristic and needing to be the hero to saved a teammate life from a step closer to death; it holds them hostage and makes them not want to do the objective at all.... of course, saving survivors was never the main objective all along; it is about fixing the gens as possible and getting out through the main exit gates, even at the cost of sacrifice your teammates lives or not. The reason why many survivors want to saved their teammates lives and unhook them as soon and safe as possible, because it helps increase their chances of survival and productivity in completing the one and only objective which is to Repair the Gens and open the exit gates. Killer's objective have always been solely focused in winning in form of eliminating any Survivor as fast and efficiently as possible, there is no reward in "switching Survivors and going for hooks" as you are letting 4 survivors take advantage of their 3 hooks system and getting away with "hook trading" and sacrifice their hooks state over letting one teammate die. Camping and tunnelling is and always will be the most efficient and fastest way to kill a Survivor, that is not bannable offense by any means, especially without perks to assist them. It is a distasteful, "boring" yet smart and malicious strategy to win. The devs have never implemented any form of basekit changes to killers for hooking any Survivor and offer some some sort powerful regression/slowdown without a specific perks or killer power in play; so more often then not; killers that want to win will Camp and tunnel when the situation/opportunities calls for it; whatever survivors dislikes it or not. You cannot dedicate how the killer plays, in which they find it fun, effectively, and most beneficial way to win. (It not like hook Survivor paused/Massive slow down generator speed currently, so why bother leaving the hook with they are literally a minute or two away from death; that is how the average and new killer players will think smartly and they would used that opportunity to possibly stand a chance in wining a 3v1 or less game)
If you really care about the health of the game and hates Camping and Tunnelling so much; firstly... Stop screaming killer nerfs; they will still do it and you make no killer player want to ever play, therefore longer que times... Secondly, how about some decent killers buffs that focused more of benefit the killer massively when it comes "leaving the hook, finding a different survivor to hook, as well as slowdown the generator efficiently when you hook a different survivor instead of the same survivor again." Only then, you can see survivor giving a second chance. Yet needs to shut up about complaining all their problems to the killer. As most killers just simply want to have a decent fun game without being genrush and left with no hooks and kills at the end of the game. Heck, even adding as secondary main objective besides the generator repairs, would not major step in balancing the game right.
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I win still big part of my games without tunneling even with 90s gens. Im probably just average killer in skill level. But even some games I go for 6-8 hooks before finishing anyone off.
I do wonder do you want to win every game? I think that is unfair and 110s gens should almost do that already if you're good killer. What gen speed you would want 120s or 130s?
Tunneling would be even more viable actually that 5s ds for example in the end would be just small obstacle. So I think gens should go back to 80s once you finish one off. Makes keeping the game 4vs1 bit longer wort it.
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-"gens should go back to 80s once you finish one off"
Should gens go to 130 seconds on large maps (120 on medium maps and 110 on small maps) if the survivors break the only three gen on the map? You can't favor one side over the other with changes.
-"some games I go for 6-8 hooks before finishing anyone off."
So you're playing in middle MMR where everything is "fine". All of the most skilled content creators sopped going for hooks . Why? If the survivors rush their objective then the killer is forced to do the same. The devs added base kit survivor tunneling protection but refused to add base kit generator tunneling protection.
Killers turn to tunneling because they can lose 2-3 gens in the first chase. Since kills are the "metric that matter" you can camp one player to stage two and then tunnel them to death. You can just face camp the second unique player you down and minimum tie every game. This makes for a very unfun experience for everyone.
Prevent both sides from being able to hyperblast their objective and the game will be more fun for everyone.
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There does need to be something... but there needs to be a line
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Like I say It's only some games and solely debends on how good start I have to get those hooks before finishing anyone off. It's very hard but if you succeed is much more rewarding than hard tunneling right at the start. I can do mini tunnel in these games hooking same survivor twice in a row but nothing wrong in that. If survivors are not rushing gens why should I tunnel?
I don't really know if mmr works properly sometimes I get insane looper teams, gen jockey teams or newbies. Sometimes I do get balanced matches as well. My brother who rarely plays killer seem to get always some good looper/gen jockey teams it's just weird.
You say middle mmr is fine so If gens would really be increased to 130s would it still be fine? Blight and nurse even spirit will have to be qutted. As those killers can do 8 hooking without killing anyone off in high mmr as well with current gens.
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Someone said 'killers have to be rewarded for leaving a hook'. No, I think you understood wrong. I suggest making a killer vs 8 survivors, who have to repair 12 gens. Once a survivor has been hooked, you must stay guard till they die. Let's see if you enjoy sitting guard for 40 minutes doing nothing. That should be your reward.
Tbh I am tired of people whining and saying they camp/tunnel because they're basically bad at the game (if you cannot win without doing that, that must mean you're awfully terrible and thus unable to do anything without using those tactics). And yes, I do know gen rushing it's a thing and SWF are nasty most of the times.
So what I truly propose is the following:
·First time a survivor is hooked, gen repair speed goes down by 3% for that survivor. Whenever they get to struggling or are hooked for the second time, they go down by an extra 1%. So, if you hook all survivors once, you are effectively reducing their repair speed by 12%, which is quite a lot. That's as far as I can go to grant a 'reward' to killers. Survivors in a short radius around the hooked survivor will scream.
·To compensate, the killers aura will be revealed for 3 seconds when hooking someone. In addition to this, if the killer stays near the recently hooked survivor for 10 seconds without starting a chase or interacting in any other way with other survivors, the remaining unhooked survivors will receive a 15% boost to repairing speed until the camping is ended one way or another. If you don't want this, you better go find other survivors to stop their progress, which is basically what you should be doing anyway.
This is the most balanced way I can think of to address this situation, which is getting tiring. But know this, if you facecamp and tunnel blatanlty, there is something wrong with you. Destroying other people's fun for the sake of standing still doing nothing is quite sad, and speaks for itself of your skill and mental health.
The same goes for survivors who form a bully squad, or ragequit for nothing, or in other ways goes out of their way and the game's purpose to mess with the killer or other fellow survivors.
The problem with the game is not the game, it's some of the people who play it.
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"this could be solved if hook progression would pause after the killer has been in close proximity for too long."
Well now survivors are going to do everything they can to keep the killer in said proximity while the other two do generators.
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I think the camp itself is fine.
when the gate opens
If the killer didn't kill any players
Because everyone wants to kill even one person
i think it's because i go camping
What about having these additional features?
If you can't kill anyone and the gate opens, you can kill them on the spot.
or
such as gaining quickness for 5 seconds when hung on a hook
whichever it is
The killer also needs a shared attached effect.
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-"As those killers can do 8 hooking without killing anyone off in high mmr as well with current gens"
While that does happen it is a result of the survivors making multiple mistakes. Sometimes this happens because there are no voice coms. On average though you're not going to get that result with the current gen rush meta.
Truetalent had a game against a blight at high MMR the other day where the blight had like 3 hooks by the time the gens got done. Everyone knew what to do and the chases were too long b/c of DH and gen rushing.
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Thah blight was obviously bad. Lilith omen for example destroyed ayrun p100 squad even they all played well. Ayrun is one of the best survivors out there. Now imagine what would happen if gens were 130s.
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-"Thah blight was obviously bad"
No he was just outplayed by everyone using DH really well and blasting gens.
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