Community's Thoughts on This Potential Change to Both Pain Resonance and Dead Hard?

I guess protection hits activating Dead Hard suits David just as fine as unhooks. It does mean every survivor you bop while carrying a survivor will have Dead Hard activated by it, so bodyblocking will be just as annoying as ever if not more so in the event of survivors descending on you like locusts to get hits for their DH. That sounds ridiculous, I know, but people can be ridiculous. Encouraging protection hits mid-chase is fine though.

However, the downside of switching from unhooks to protection hits is that unhooks have a hard cap, protection hits don't, and I prefer there being a hard limit to the number of Dead Hards in a match. It also means Adept David will be borderline impossible because you'll be taking protection hits with a single health state. That ain't gonna work.

As for Pain Res, I agree that the upcoming update will weaken it to the point it no longer warrants being a Scourge Hook perk. Either remove the Scourge Hook requirement, or revert its earlier nerfs and bring back its information function by revealing screaming survivors now that it can only happen 4 times a match. This will encourage leaving the hook to attack the generator with the most progress, but will be much less oppressive with a hard limit of 4.

We disagree on that then. I'll also mention that Mettle of Man is already a perk that negates hits in exchange for protection hits, having both perks working off protection hits would be highly redundant. Would synergize really well though.

DH needed a nerf or a rework. This nerf doesn't kill the perk. Instead it makes the perk unhealthy for the reasons you stated above. Not a great plan. I can only hope nobody will run it anymore so this becomes insignificant. A rework would have been the better option but here we are. Though, if it activated upon taking a protection hit wouldn't this incentivise tunneling as well? Protection hits only happen when a killer is already tunneling. If DH activated on a survivor that took a protection hit I would still go after the other (from a logical perspective).

Pain Res, CoB and Overcharge are all getting killed. Jolt will be the new king of regression perks. Wow. That hits hard. Though, as I understand it Pain Res will only work for each individual survivor's first hook stage. So it doens't really reward tunneling. Camping, yeah because an exchange will still trigger it but tunneling? No.

While I like the direction they went with Pain Res and encouraging healthy killer gameplay, it's definitely a pretty harsh nerf. I’d be interested to know how many times on average the perk activates per match in its current form, just to put it into perspective since now you'll never get more than 4 uses per match. I might keep some data on this in my own matches over the next few weeks prior to the nerf.

As for DH, there was no good fix imo. It should’ve just been reworked entirely.

Why would you do it now? Everything you're saying is applicable to right now. This is already a game where you can ignore the unhooker because "they might have 3 health states." It is the exact same thing. Nothing changes.

Is unhooking a survivor so rare and difficult that Dead Hard will never function again? Don't be melodramatic.

So... still the same as it is now?

Exactly the same as it is now.

Which is something you should be doing anyway, Dead Hard or not.

To quote my earlier post: "I prefer there being a hard limit to the number of Dead Hards in a match." Unhooks being the condition solves that because there can be, at most, 8 unhooks per match. That equals to 8 successful Dead Hards at peak survivor efficiency, which is plenty. No Dead Hards at the start of the match, but probably a lot of them at the end of the match. Fine. I don't like protection hits as an alternative because they are unlimited, and again, would make Adept David impossible. I know No Mither is a joke but we don't need to make David's perks completely invalidate each other and become even more self-sabotaging.

No other exhaustion perk is as frustrating to go against as Dead Hard is for the majority of people. I think the change is perfect honestly, especially since it ensures that killers won't have to deal with it before they get their first hook, which is when they are the weakest. It's a very clever nerf if you ask me.

I feel that would make it feel even worse to use than the planned update would. It either does too much or too little with only a rare in-between.

Dead Hard and Pain Res usage rates will drop.

People asked for this.

Pointing out a double standard is valid.

Dead Hard deserves a heavy nerf, and you're trying to completely undo it, by allowing survivors to easily force a dead hard activation. The whole purpose of this meta shift, is to encourage killers to chase more, and that requires dead hard to go away, because dead hard is a massive demotivator for chasing survivors.

This is so sad, that here I am hoping BHVR can reach their goal of making chases more valuable, and a bunch of other people want to completely sabotage that goal, because they don't want survivor to be nerfed. A chase motivated meta is healthy for the game, and people should want this to happen. Do people actually like it when killers just park themselves in an area, and refuse to move? Really, no one wants to see if this meta can work? You all just want to complain to BHVR that the entire burden of the meta shift should be on killers, and survivors should just get what they want with minimum inconvenience?

Your posts are very survivor sided. I don't care what side you actually main.

Pain Resonance getting the BBQ token treatment guts the perk. If devs wanted to limit it, they could have added a 6-7 token system with one token consumed for each survivor hooked.

While not having to deal with Dead Hard first chase is great, I think the only issue was Survivors using it at a pallet or window. Adding a buffer before dropping a pallet or vaulting after using Dead Hard would have been enough.

-"PR cannot have both a token-based pre-requisite and an RNG-based pre-requisite."

Nobody is going to use a perk that gives a 1 time event per enemy player that reduces one generator by 15% progress so it really doesn't matter.

Nobody is going to use Overcharge or CoB either. Those perks basically just got deleted. Sloppy Butcher however is now basically base kit. What killer would not bother bringing it?

-"I think adding an activation condition is fine, but having it be a Safe Unhook leaves a lot to be desired."

Let's talk about this a second.... how do you not get a safe unhook in the age of base kit BT?

Basically they are saying don't farm someone recklessly and you get one use of DH. Nobody is going to try and get a down in 12 seconds to prevent you from getting one use of DH.

No the activation needs to come after unhook, cause that's the time you can use it protect someone.

I dont really see how this massively encourages camping or tunneling, and I should know a bit about that. What's the reason?

You go in, take a hit, unhook, get Dead Hard Active, DH the swing and you both escape.

Unless the Killer grabs you.

I still don't see how that encourages camping or tunneling still, like how??

PR was completely gutted and will never be seen again after these changes. Which if they stick with the healing nerfs I’m okay with as we’re moving around where the gen slow down is coming from. I like the concept they’re going for in rewarding killers who play fair except the reward is supposed to match the extra difficulty of playing fair and this misses it by a mile.

DH won’t be ran nearly as much but will still be seen quite a bit, definitely not dead. A fair nerf.

For Pain ress I'd prefer more uses out of it or at least a way to get tokens back. Perhaps start with a token , then downing the obsession generates an additional token and another can't be gained until the current obsession is hooked, Upon hook rescue, unhooker becomes the new obsession when the killer is 32m from the hook and after 6-8 seconds have elapsed after the unhook animation, a bit how MYC or Devour works in theory but with ample time for the survivor to do something about it. This way also promotes more synergy with other perks.