I have roughly 4500 hours in Hillbilly. Over half a year of my waking life on this killer.
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You claimed they would have a good reason for every change they make without providing evidence...
No im pretty sure that is a clear as an assumption, if you were unsure about that you can just ask. I don't assume bHVR is malicious.
So they probably have a good reason, seems weirdly strange to roll out the whole company arm for nothing. You tell me.
You claimed they would have a good reason for every change they make without providing evidence... Therefore that statement can be dismissed, same goes for things overperforming and therefore getting nerfed... That is also just an assumption, unless they stated that as the reason for toning down the addons...
Seems kind of weird do me that in a world of Video games and Video Game companies, they cant do changes to their videogames without me having to prove they are not malicious. I think that is rather bad standard, but the problem is you are only here to give me crap over me pointing out what was wrong with the other guys statements first. It IS trying to shift the burden of proof and its not on the topic either.
Like if you were really invested in finding out the truth, you would not waste time with me. I don't hold the stats either.
when you just claim stuff without providing evidence or at least a somewhat logical explanation for stuff then either the other team or the juror will just dismiss your argument that easily...
Yeah that might fly in debate club or British parliament, but to me who are invested in the topic it matters not. Its just shifting the burden of proof, which is a fallacy. To me you are clearly #5 in the following list and its a waste of my time on this topic.
- bHVR is doing a mistake by nerfing the engravings.
- What is the mistake?
- The mistake is the engravings are fine, they don't need a nerf.
- How do you know engravings are fine?
- WHERE ARE YOUR EVIDENCE TO PROVE ENGRAVINGS ARE NOT FINE, MISTER-
You you want to goat at me, then goat.
You are replying to a covo I had with Xernoton's long post about addon, but mainly the last point he made that
Something performing the best does not mean it's overperforming. Billy isn't overperforming. Period. If he was we'd have seen that with the last kill rates or the ones before. Because since he has not received a single buff. Quite the opposite in fact. It's been nerfs and shadow nerfs as well as reworked maps, which are all horrible for him, no exceptions.
The point is, Statistics are worth looking at and that isn't just kill rates. But also downrates and many other rates, like I have even watched your streams during all this. Seeing how people self sacrifice vs you its pretty clear why they are nerfed. You move way to fast to give an avg. survivor a chance imo. Now if you want to convince me I am wrong about that assessment we can continue here. But I think we all rather want answers at this point and that means asking bHVR.
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As pointed out by others making licensed killers more attratictive than those you already have by getting the base game, by either buffing those or nerfing the others seems like a fine reason from a financial standpoint, I would however call it malicious from gameplay point of view. Also many changes they made just don't make any sense, no matter from what perspective... Which was evident for basically everyone reading the changes for the first time. (e.g. nerfing marvins blood on nemesis, or giving many killers a load of completely useless addons that nobody will ever use because they don't matter...)
Claiming that I am anything in the sense of the topic is absurd since I did not make a single statement about the state of balance of the engravings... You are not making any sense here...
Dude if you call out other people on not providing evidence for statements they make but don't do that yourself you might be a hypocrite... And it does not really add something to the debate at all...
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People self sacrifice because the game is fundamentally flawed and has had a skill drain issue due to the balance surrounding it. Generally, there aren't good billy players at this point. Nobody knows how to play around him, and generally, ANY oppressive killer tends to get people going next. Ralph, another streamer, gets it MUCH more often than I do when he's playing huntress. I play any killer besides basic m1 killers, and I still get it somewhat often.
That's why so many people give up. I ask all the time, and it's mostly because they got a bad match prior and didn't want to have to be so focused on the next match.
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As pointed out by others making licensed killers more attractive than those you already have by getting the base game, by either buffing those or nerfing the others seems like a fine reason from a financial standpoint,
dude, are you for real rn? Billy was nerfed to sell Weskers. lol Do you know what a Conspiracy Theory is?
I would however call it malicious from gameplay point of view.
Also many changes they made just don't make any sense, no matter from what perspective... Which was evident for basically everyone reading the changes for the first time. (e.g. nerfing marvins blood on nemesis, or giving many killers a load of completely useless addons that nobody will ever use because they don't matter...)
idk, I have seen gtVel absolutely nuke survivors with that speed. I think they are breathing of relief rn.
Marvins blood nerf does not seem strange to me, it was pretty good to speedrun nemesis stages for really good players.
Claiming that I am anything in the sense of the topic is absurd since I did not make a single statement about the state of balance of the engravings... You are not making any sense here...
You did make a statement, you are commenting on a thread. Replying to a tangent, a far out branch of the conversation.
Dude if you call out other people on not providing evidence for statements they make but don't do that yourself you might be a hypocrite... And it does not really add something to the debate at all...
Yes that is only true if we keep on topic. But its not staying on topic asking me to prove a negative because I asked first.
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That seems like a convenient excuse to me. But even so if you are THAT oppressive with Billy surely we would want to nerf that?
When is the reason to nerf engravings then I wonder?
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Maybe not Wesker but Bubba, both chainsaw killers, both have an insta down. Bubba got buffed a lot and Billy got almost every good addon taken away from him, leavinig him at average strenght but waaaay harder than Bubba. You could think of it that way.
Marvins blood is useless right now since it does not enable you to get T2 with fewers hits, or I think it used to be from one survivor only, or something like that. But now it really does not serve apurpose.
Billy is an average killer... People just don't know what to do against him and therefore don't realize the options they have, there are like 15 killers that are stronger than him, and barely anybody plays Billy anyway but you think people are going to be happy to not go against a killer that offers meaningfull chase interaction unlike half of the medium range antiloop killers?
Vel started that whole post by elaborating why Billy needs his current speed? What further do you want to know? By lowering his speed some curves will no longer be possible ,esepcially against players that know what they are doing? Have you ever looked at some Billy compilations and seen how close some of those curves are? If he looses speed some of those curves will just not be possible anymore, which leaves him with less chase interaction and more tiles he cannot use his chainsaw properly... Which means more M1 killer gameplay, and that is just not why people play Billy...
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You do realize that it's still incredibly easy to win against me as a survivor, right? I do get a LOT of kills, but I easily can have a higher winrate on many other killers who take substantially less time than 4500 hours. You have to play perfectly AS IS, to not mess up with what double engravings provide. And predropping/breaking for distance still absolutely destroys me, if someone's aware enough of pallet locations.
It's not an issue of me being too oppressive, I just know how to play the game REALLY well compared to everyone else. I'd have a higher killrate on huntress, nurse, blight, oni, or any other killer. The difference between those killers and billy, is that billy not only requires me to play damn near perfect, it ALSO requires them to just be aware and react to my curve starting. Lots of people never even look behind themselves, and they are generally the ones who give up instantly. I also happen to play at night, when less swf's are online and a lower population count, making the MMR a lot less strict.
Billy isn't oppressive. He just doesn't have to hit you twice if you don't pay attention, and he has to be VERY on point mechanically to do so. Do you really think removing the channels for high dedication in skill expression is something that should be removed, especially when it's not hard to play against in the first place?
Edit - Like, the entire reason my gameplay looks as it does is because I play this game intentionally to challenge myself and have been doing so for the entirety of my 6000+ hours in game. I've been intentionally looking for the hardest, but most fair stuff I can use. Billy really is what that is. I quit nurse after 1k hours with her, due to how easy it is to win. Her and many other killers just don't give any level of meaningful chase interaction once you're good enough with them, but Billy with doubles still gives meaningful agency to the survivor in chase despite my massive hourcount. It's high risk, high reward for BOTH sides, and requires a disproportionate amount more effort from me. I can't imagine anything more fair than that.
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and When is the reason/time to nerf engravings hypothetically?
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Totally agree with ya.. Billy is indeed a challenging character who shouldn't be messed with. Nerfing engravings would just make him a nobody. The overheat stuff is whatever, it's not rocket science to manage. It's totally fine to have a high-skill character like Billy in the game, and I hope the devs show him some love. You're totally right to be passionate about the game, and I hope the devs hear you out. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
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There's no need for them to be nerfed? I've outlined why and how it's a bad thing from direct knowledge of how his power functions.
It's a set of challenge addons for the sake of a fun challenge. It makes him harder. He's not played by the casual community because the only alternative to curvebilly is only really double boots or lopro/doom. The speed and difficulty in chase is everything that makes him fun! High addon usage rate and the effectiveness is because he's currently designed to only be tolerable for the most dedicated of dedicated, and the solution is definitely not erasing the dedicated community. I can only imagine it's a situation of survivorship bais, and it's leading to the wrong changes happening.
This will mostly only kill billy for the dedicated remaining playerbase. He needs meaningful changes in so many other ways to make him enjoyable for the casual players, because these changes won't fix him being unfun for the average person.
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Yes, but hypothetically what would be a reason to nerf them in your mind?
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True,
I have spent roughly 500 hours on Billy and i still feel like an absolute noob against most survivors on difficult loops, however the satisfaction of a perfectly executed curve around a well trained loop is immense. There is not a single other Killer whch brings me this Kind of joy.
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Agreed. It's uniquely satisfying to hit a chainsaw. If it was just about speed and insta downs I'd have switched to Oni a long time ago but Billy feels like a killer that can, if played well enough, use his chainsaw anywhere while still providing sufficient counterplay. I have played countless games of chainsaw only Billy and I can say that this is not really viable. But it's so fun that I continue doing it. With roughly 600 hours on this killer I can see myself getting better playing around "easy" loops and dealing with survivors spinning but nothing about this killer comes easy (at least to me).
I still get destroyed by many survivors that I know I could catch, if I played a different killer. But because Billy is fun and allows me to go for a million different mindgames and plays I don't care about that.
I still remember when I started playing this killer and had to force myself to chase survivors around shack so I would get better at it. The countless times I bumped into the doorframes or barely missed a survivor that was running around it. But seeing how much better I've become at dealing with those makes me want to play Billy even more, get even better, learn more angles and mindgames.
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I haven't played billy since his original changes. It sucks and id love to go back to him instead of the big 3. Ya have my support. Bhvr cannot keep doing billy dirty when once upon a time they said "he's in a good spot" before they took a shotgun to him. A GOOD SPOT? So like huntress? Who got barely any changes? Revert this please. There's no reason and no one ive watched has defended this change.
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used correctly Engravings are good, and they lift up other addons (for example tuned carburator) which are useless without an engravin: to go along with them. In addition, most of his other addons are useless comparatively (survivorship bias).
Therefore, the usage rate must be high, and since good billies (who get a high killrate) know this and newer ones (who get a low killrate) don't, stats-wise it would be unsurprising if the killrate for these addons are high.
The approach of nerfing these addons is thereby dumb, since it doesnt tackle the problem at its roots, it only treats the symptoms.
In conclusion, this change is unnerving since it presents a disconnect between the dev-team and the community, making a protest justified.
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