This is a pretty hefty nerf tbh. The perk can't be used in the first chase, it can't be used until you've earned it - that's pretty big. Really surprised that you think this is a small adjustment.
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I can’t believe Dead Hard got such a tiny nerf
Coffeecrashing
Member Posts: 4,519
I can’t believe Dead Hard got such a tiny nerf.
Dead Hard has been the #1 complained about survivor perk for months, and the new nerf still allows survivors to easily get multiple uses per game.
How is this fair at all? All the good gen kicking regression perks got massive nerfs, but dead hard gets such a small nerf that I might still need to suffer through it every game?
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Comments
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There are exactly 2 uses. Dont be overdramatic.
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A tiny nerf? NAH it was a pretty big one.
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This is a pretty hefty nerf tbh. The perk can't be used in the first chase, it can't be used until you've earned it - that's pretty big. Really surprised that you think this is a small adjustment.
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I don't think it's a tiny nerf, it's definitely impactful.
It can no longer be used in a first chase which is where it's most effective, killer needs a hook asap to start getting pressure.
And now the maximum amount of times it can be used is 2. Also executioner can just cage everyone and then it will never activate.
I still feel like it will be used and will be frustrating at times but it's definitely weaker, i would not completely disregard it. Maybe it needs more but we can wait and see.
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When playing killer, we'll now know that at least the first two chases you have will not have a Dead Hard in them (assuming you don't choose to go back to the hook and tunnel).
You'll also know, if you keep track, which survivors could potentially have it or not. This is a good nerf for now - we'll see how it goes, but knowing that your first couple of chases do not have a Dead Hard in them is good for killer - as that first chase is good for creating pressure.
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It is a decent sized nerf, but don't expect the complaints to stop unless literally nobody runs it anymore.
This change doesn't address the issues with the perk. Namely it's wild inconsistency and complete lack of telegraphing in spite of its potental raw power.
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It’s a relatively tiny nerf to the single strongest perk in the game, every survivor is still going to run it, and its effects are going to be the same after the first couple chases.
bhvr try playing killer, I’m begging you
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I think I definitely have to still worry about it being in every single match still.
Eruption, Call of Brine, Overcharge, and Pain Res all got massive nerfs that are so bad that I’ll never use them again. That is what I call a huge nerf.
And how is getting unhooked “earning” a dead hard? The survivor didn’t actively do anything. This nerf just means that instead of worrying about dead hard 3 times per survivor, I have to worry about it 2 times per survivor.
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Considering that a successful Dead Hard isn't even guaranteed, this perk definitely got nerfed hard. I mean, before you could sometimes use it more than once before getting downed (if the killer left you for someone else), or you could have it in first chase, allowing 3 gens to pop sometimes.
Besides that, you shouldn't get dead-harded consistently, if so it's a you-problem if you can't wait for it. The only time it can be guaranteed is on pallets, but even on vaults you can just wait for the animation to start and then hit them. It's not even a crazy good perk right now, after the nerf it will be worse than Sprintburst and Lithe. I mean, i could just take Off The Record instead, sure it does deactivate after touching gens/ healing but at least it saves me in deadzones, unlike dead hard. Also, making it kinda an anti-tunnel perk is great considering that this is one of the things most survivors complain about.
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This is strictly fewer uses than on the PTB, what on earth are you talking about?
It's a maximum of two uses per survivor, and never in the first chase. If anything this might be too big of a nerf, but we'll see how it goes.
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The perk itself isn’t weaker, it’s just the number of activations would be less. When a survivor has dead hard available, all the situations where the current dead hard is frustrating, will still be just as frustrating.
And it’s not like it’s going from infinite uses to 2 uses. It’s really just going from an average of 3 uses to 2 uses, since I’m still going to continue chasing someone after they use dead hard.
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It completely changes the early game for the killers, they can get downs and hooks with 0 worry that the survivor will have DH.
And as long as you continue switching targets, you wont be seeing DH until later in the game when you've established dominance.
Literally cannot see at all how this is a tiny nerf.
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Tiny... You literally don't have it for your first chase, hope the killer just doesn't smack you off unhooking and you still have to hit the timing. And it's usable only twice, provided you do get unhooked.
What were you expecting, that pressing E made the survivor explode in a burst of confetti and be removed from the trial?
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I was expecting an actual heavy nerf, like the gen kicking regression perks got. I expected nerfs so big that the perk would be garbage…. Just like how the gen kicking regression perks are now garbage.
And yes, it means I’m still encouraged to proxy camp and immediately hit people off the hook, because that will still be the only real counterplay for most killers.
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Guess what, you were granted your wish. No reason to complain about it.
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First chase is where Dead Hard was at its strongest - as extending that chase was one of the most important and impactful in the game.
You're not likely to see it in the 2nd chase either. So we're talking quite a few chases where you're not going to be seeing Dead Hard.
You know if you've not hooked that person that they won't have Dead Hard, so that concern has gone also.
It's definitely a big change.
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Every single survivor never ran DH to begin with. This belief you guys have that every survivor has it in every match really needs to stop. That’s just not factual whatsoever.
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sometimes not even with exposed lol. But some people might stay injured so.
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Honestly, could not have said it better myself (since my response would just end up in a long-winded essay that no one will really read because it's too long).
✅ Dead Hard cant be used in the first chase.
✅ Very limited use compared to before (I think it should only apply on being unhooked, not when unhooking, but I digress).
✅ Now acts like an anti-tunnel perk, when before it promoted tunneling (since it was tied to unhooking).
I also at least thing SH: Pain Resonance should just have a Unique Survivor effect similar to old BBQ, where you hook a different Survivor to gain benefits, just to avoid only having 4 usages of it is severely limiting, and 25% regression just is not worth it when I can just run Pop Goes. Plus I think it would be healthier if regression itself rewarded not tunneling.
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What does "earned" mean to you? By making a mistake and earn a free second chance perk?
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earned was probably the wrong choice of words there, I was thinking more of it being there when you really need it later in a match
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For me it’s not a big change, because it means I’m still heavily encouraged to hit a survivor immediately after they are unhooked, to throw them in deep wounds, so I don’t have to deal with this awful perk.
The original PTB nerf was better, because it was so bad that I wouldn’t worry about every single survivor potentially having it, so I wouldn’t have to proxy camp every hook.
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The thing is the the perk shouldn't see much play compared to current. The fact every fresh chase can't have the perk takes a lot of the power out of the perk. If you fresh everyone first then the perk literally can't get into play until you are getting your 5th chase. That seems like a heavy nerf when SB and lithe are right there in power.
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Why is it fine for killer perks to absolutely get nerfed into the ground, but dead hard is ok with a smaller nerf because “it would be used less”?
With the killer perk nerfs, it wasn’t a “the perks are still good, but we’ll just see them less”. The killer perk nerfs were a “completely useless now and not worth using anymore”
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tiny nerf ?? xD OFR gaves you 80sec BT, no aura reading, old iron will... meanwhile DH dont working everytime, you need to time it, the only one way to use it its with DS
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If all survivors are running the perk you wouldn't see it until chase 3 unless you hardcore are tunneling. If you are ignoring 1 guy and chasing 3 you still wouldn't see the perk until your 4th chase. That is a lot of power loss for survivor in the early game. I really disagree with it being a smaller nerf. Unless you are straight up tunneling the first player this change looks better than the one in PTB imo.
Also the PR change makes it much better early game and does nothing late. Really feels more like a shift in power while the power level of the perk stays the same. Kick perks needed to die.
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I assumed this was satire... and my friend linked me the patch decisions.
DH needed more of a nerf. It's really that simple. It remains high risk high reward. It probably should only give 1.5 seconds of sprint burst or maybe just give endurance and no sprint burst.
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Tiny? Did you actually bother reading the patch notes or is English not your forte?
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Yes. The perk went from “worry that you see it 3 times on every survivor” to “worry that you’ll see it 2 times per survivor”
This would be a lot better if killers could get an indicator when a survivor has an active dead hard.
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BVHR is pretty survivor bias. so I was expecting DH to get a buff. It was just gut feeling.
generally speaking, BVHR tend to prioritize survivor fun above all else. The PTB was just really strange because its only time that I have ever witness changes that lower survivor's fun factor. the gen-kicking perks that encourage 3 gen gameplay is not fun for survivor. that is kinda why they are removing it.
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The problem with this strategy about keeping 4/5 players happy is that almost nobody wants to play killer. This has been the rule rather than the exception for ~6 years.
They had hoped the 6.1 update would change things and the truth is that it just didn't. Before 6.1 we had people pinging the DBD server and found 45 killers in queue with 4500 survivors. That's a lot of survivors to keep happy but not many killers left who even bother to keep playing.
At the very least they could have made the rule : no more than 1 player gets DH from an unhook. If two people could get it from an unhook give it to the player that just got unhooked.
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At the very least they could have made the rule : no more than 1 player gets DH from an unhook. If two people could get it from an unhook give it to the player that just got unhooked.
For the update’s release, we have changed Dead Hard to instead activate when you are unhooked or unhook yourself. This way, the unhooked Survivor becomes less of a clear target for the Killer.
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If both survivor has dead hard equipped, both dead hard are activated. honestly the idea that dead hard change encouraged tunneling was propaganda because a killer can hit a survivor to put them into deep wound which disables dead hard. The change does nothing prevent that, so expect people to keep doing that anyway. it was mostly propaganda to get dead hard buffed. It worked so I cannot argue with it.
Before 6.1 we had people pinging the DBD server and found 45 killers in queue with 4500 survivors. That's a lot of survivors to keep happy but not many killers left who even bother to keep playing.
I have heard about that. I am not entirely sure if that is true or not, but that is a problem. Killer not having fun playing dbd makes killers not want to play killer because the experience is unfun. As I said, Killer fun is generally almost completely ignored in dbd, I think that is mostly problem for high-end killer. Most of killer are balanced around low to mid-level meaning that their abilities are not particularly effective against very strong survivors. that makes killer not fun to play at high-level despite kill-statistics showing otherwise.
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I thought only the person being unhooked gets Dead Hard, it’s just an awkward wording, where “unhooking yourself” really just means “self unhook”?
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Exactly, does not even work with exposed. And some people might not get unhooked in first stage.
Even then, the Survivor cannot have DH in their first chase, which is already huge for the Killer. Because this means, before the Survivor can use DH, the Killer already had pressure because they got a Hook and forced Survivors into altruistic actions instead of sticking to Gens.
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It’s “better” but not “huge”.
Huge is having to rework all my killer perk loadouts, because all those nerfed killer perks are now complete trash and need to be removed.
Meanwhile, it’s completely fine for survivors to still use dead hard, because it’s functionally just a -1 use per match, most of the time.
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You know, playing Survivor sometimes would help you a lot.
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How would that help me? I literally don’t have to change any of my survivor perk loadouts, because none of them got nerfs that are bad enough for me to care.
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Edit: Your right. its only if you get unhooked.
Post edited by Devil_hit11 on0 -
-"honestly the idea that dead hard change encouraged tunneling was propaganda because a killer can hit a survivor to put them into deep wound which disables dead hard."
It's not propaganda at all. I hard tunnel at 5 gens and I will always attempt to hit the unhooker and then re-chase the person that just got off the hook. The game is in a state that vs efficient players you have to "skip" the way the devs want you to play as killer to make your objective timer line up with the survivor objective.
-"I am not entirely sure if that is true or not, but that is a problem. Killer not having fun playing dbd makes killers not want to play"
Every day follows a very similar pattern with the BP bonuses. Survivor has a bonus around 6am when all the SWF are sleeping and survivor mains dip their toe into the killing pool.
Around 1-2pm the bonus usually flips to killer and stays that way until 10pm. Around 10pm a few survivors sometimes play killer and the bonus occasionally flips for like an hour and then it's a constant 100% until morning.
When I play killer I can't ever spend more than 1 web before I find a game. When I don't like a lobby I get a new one in seconds. As survivor you wait 2-3 minutes for a game and you take whatever the game gives you or you wait a long time.
The "third health state" problem would be easily fixed if they added one small tweak to DH.
"After you use it once you remain broken for the rest of the game."
That would make it actually be high risk/high reward. Or they could make the perk not give movement speed but still give endurance. Either would be "fine" and an equal treatment to what they did with eruption.
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Now instead of earning Dead Hard through helping your teammates, you earn it passively by losing.
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"tiny nerf"
I had no idea letting the killer get closer to winning as a base requirement for the perk was so minor.
What are you talking about?
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When eruption, calm of brine, and overcharge got a huge nerf, they got buried into the ground, are terrible at regression now, and I won’t ever use any of them anymore.
When dead hard gets a huge nerf, it’s still a useful perk that killers need to worry about every single game they play.
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There's no way it's going to show up literally every single game.
You hit someone twice at most to trigger it.
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Currently it’s usually only 3 times at most per survivor. This is getting changed to only 2 times at most per survivor.
That’s it. It’s so rare that I ever see someone use dead hard on me more than 3 times a match, because I’ll continue chasing someone that uses dead hard, so they usually only get one dead hard per health state.
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I'm sorry that it's really easy to get you to swing at Dead Hard every single time and that you don't know when to abandon chase.
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Hmm, deadhard will never be killed at all. No matter how much he gets nerfed, he will still stay in the meta.
I thought it would all end like this. It turns out the old tactic remains in place, stand near the hook and hit the survivor under the hook so that he does not receive DH and runs with a deep wound. We do not encourage tunneling.
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Yeah that is huge nerf as dh is at it most powerful in first chase. So with the change killers can get first downs potentially faster which are the most critical. Still one nerf for dh would be nice make survivors not be able to immediatelly drop pallets when activating it. Now the window is very small to get hit in between and if you're bit too far they can drop it before you can get the hit when you succesfully baited it out...
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>you fresh everyone first then the perk literally can't get into play until you are getting your 5th chase.
By that time you have already lost.
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I wouldn't say that's true in pubs.
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I don't really see "I got unhooked" as me earning it. However, at least it's limited to two times per survivor. Still, killers will have the same issue - being discouraged from freely attacking a survivor. It's a bit silly killers should be afraid of taking a swing at a survivor.
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