A slight change that would balance the Dead Hard and still make it viable
I'm sure many of you are tired of hearing complaints about the new dead hard nerf, however I just wonder why BHVR didn't keep dead hard the way it was in the PTB that it disabled if it successfully protected you from damage (if it took you into deep wound).
Now even if you just missclick it or use it and get exhausted without it successfully protecting you, it disables.
Now I understand what people mean with it being truly dead. BHVR could keep it as it is, but I would love if they could add that it disables only if it puts you into deep wound, meaning you could use it several times per hook state until you've hit it. What do you think about this suggestion? That would be more balanced.
Comments
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Sure, never said otherwise, but what I suggested would be more balanced, since that's what they aim for.
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Making it only disable on successful use punishes the killer for correctly outplaying it.
Also, it wasn't like that on the PTB either, it was just poor wording in the dev update.
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Not really, since they can follow up an attack and down you. But let's say in the rare case they you dead hard, manage to break chase and lose the killer, then recover your exhaust. It would be awesome to be able to use it next time in chase, this is rewarding for the survivor. You get the scenario?
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So DH a shred window should be rewarded even more? You get outplayed and get your E key to counter a shred window which then you should be rewarded even more if I don't attack into it and have to drop chase?
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If the killer misses a shred on a DH use, the survivor got outplayed, what? I don't understand your comment, can you clarify?
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Depends what you compare it to. An ant isn't weak, but compared to us it is.
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Survivors would just E key tight shred windows when I would pull my shred up. Zero skill and if I fake it the survivor basically got old DH(6.0) as a reward for me outplaying them.
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I understand what you're saying, but no. DH has been obnoxious for years, let's not buff it.
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This makes no sense, it's a perk, if they use it like that it's skillfull and reactive, just as you using your shred on higher elevation to get somewhere.
In that scenario, you'll most likely catch up in no time and just down that survivor since they are exhausted. But I'm talking in that rare case, that the survivor manages to loop you long enough after that and you just have to drop chase, that said survivor should be able to walk around, recover from that exhaust, and next chase it's still available. If this is the case, that means you got outplayed and that should reward the survivor, not you.
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I don't agree. The game is not competitive, nerfing it to the grave like this simply makes the game more boring. Same with the CoH nerf. In retrospect, it was too OP for a single perk, but it didn't affect the outcome of the matches that much since it takes time to traverse to the boon, heal (mostly through mangled as most killers brought sloppy), then traverse back to a gen, at this point killers got alot done.
Have to look at the bigger picture, not at players blaming perks cause they get flustered and can't keep calm, which leads to nerfs after nerfs.
I am speaking from a soloQ POV, just wanted to add that to my CoH opinion.
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So making a mistake and pressing the E key is skillful in your eyes? But not only that, you think you should be rewarded heavily for such skill by being able to use it later on?
In that scenario, you'll most likely catch up in no time and just down that survivor since they are exhausted.
They get to the pallet and continue the chase.
If this is the case, that means you got outplayed and that should reward the survivor, not you.
Yea I guess pressing the E key when I bait your DH is you outplaying. Guess I need to get better and chase in stronger parts of the map after spending time in a chase that will now be extended even longer. Good thing the devs agree with me though, so it really doesn't matter at the end of the day.
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What are you talking about? Behave, discuss properly & stop replying with nonsense 👍️
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DH hasn’t been nerfed to the grave.
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Firstly, you weren't talking about a mistake, you were talking about a conscious use of dead hard to avoid a shred, that's skillfull and reactive, you can't twist your argument that way.
Secondly, you can't call if a "bait" if it doesn't benefit you, then it's not a very successful "bait"...
The devs agree with you, cause you don't want to improve, you only whine.
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Who should I listen to: you, or professional players & content creators which all say the perk is dead? 😅
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Someone getting caught out of position isn't skillful for them. Me baiting the DH and acting like I am going to shred and punish their mistake is skillful.
It is a bait when I pull my shred up and flick my camera up to simulate letting it go which the survivor get baited into using their DH.
Ah yes the player that wins basically every game at soft cap while going for 12 hook games with the only game delay being PR simply doesn't want to get better. Good talk bud
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it is now
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It is a bait when I pull my shred up and flick my camera up to simulate letting it go which the survivor get baited into using their DH.
You're saying it yourself, you are baiting the DH, they use it unsuccessfully, then since you have shred off CD, you down them with it. But this is besides my point, perhaps re-read my suggestion.
And since you are so skilled, what's your issue with any version of DH, I play both sides equally and if you have an issue with it, it's skill diff bud. Laughable 😂
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They avoid the shred window. I bait the DH and they get old DH as a reward for being outplayed. Hence why it is removed when you FAIL it. You don't get rewarded for being outplayed and then should somehow be able to use it if the correct choice from the killer is to drop the chase.
It's unfair? Doesn't matter if I win my games when the perk was clearly unfair in these situations. Sorry you lost your crutch hard though.
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A full shred takes 1 second to charge, a bait shred ONLY has a cd of 0.45 seconds, an unsuccessful DH after a bait will result in you following up with another shred or simply a lunge to down anyway, the outcome in that scenario is always in your favour, since you're so skilled you seldom fail that. However, if they manage to CONSCIOUSLY dodge a shred with dh, that takes your shred to 2.25 seconds cd, in this case they outplayed you, end of story.
Sorry you lost your crutch hard though.
I am abusing sprint burst atm and winning more games. SB has always been more overpowered, It's simply neither fun nor interactive, which is what I want the game to be.
Why is every killer main assuming DH was good? Overused doesn't always equal overpowered. It was just chill to have. That's what I'm preaching for, but since you win your games with 12 hooks, you of all players should know how bad DH is and how unsuccessful it was. Let players use whatever perks they want, it's not anyones business, it was simply comfortable to use DH and that's it.
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The hiss starts when your shred is ready and that is at .65. A survivor is immune to damage for 2m of distance since it's .5 duration and they move at 4m/s.
Maybe I'm not describing this well enough. The tight shred windows are at corners. You can literally not hit the survivor with shred ever when they are at the corner because you can simply E the entire shred window. I fake attacking to bait the survivor into using the perk but can not hit them nor gain anything outside of not being punished by hitting them and giving them a speed boost. AKA 6.0 DH when they FAIL.
Why is every killer main assuming DH was good?
I literally play more survivor than killer. DH was literally buffed in 6.1 vs Demo. And I'll end it with this video of another Demo main and you can see how "bad" it is.
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I agree. It’s an exhaustion perk so it should be affected by .. well .. exhaustion.
It also has a window of 0.5secs use! People complaining about it don’t notice the majority of times it fails compared to when it gets value.
Just because it’s meta doesn’t mean it’s required to be nerfed so hard. It’s a fun perk that can also keep high skilled killers in check.
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Everyone should wonder why BHVR didn't keep the original PTB Dead Hard that required survivors to actually earn activations. Because current DH just encourages killers to hit survivors immediately after being unhooked, if they didn't see that survivor's exhaustion perk yet.
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DH is still viable. You just can't use it on your first chase. I don't understand why people are acting like this perk is dead. You can still use it and it's still the same obnoxious BS at pallets.
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Neither because those "professional" players and content creators are just people with a opinion and not facts.
If one of those "professional" players or content creators said the ocean is made of soda and you can drink it would you?
The perk is still very useful just now it punishes the Survivors for missing the DH as it should. If a Survivor misses the DH or gets outplayed by the Killer they SHOULDN'T be allowed to get a redo or reset.
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Current DH is still viable. Let's wait more than a day before we shoot out ideas. The usage rate now is 11%, let's see how it develops.
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Anyone willing to debate/discuss Dead Hard I would appreciate your input on my idea in the thread I'm linking below. That being said, having it only get used when it works would be okay in my book if you continued to only get 2 uses of it, but I still don't like that concept. I think it would be better if people could earn some extra "attempts" (that a killer could bait/wait out) of it in a match by progressing the match.
I do agree that getting to use a perk twice, when you can use all other exhaustion perks as much as you possibly can seems wrong to me. With my idea there's no endless meme'ing, no unearned DH's frustrating the crap out of the killer, you only get what you put into the game.
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The scenario is too esoteric to be realistically pulled off consistently to merit the change.
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Thank you, at least there is one sensible person who can look at the bigger picture and what's healthy for the game.
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My opinion before listening to them was already that the perk was dead, hearing their opinion afterwards just reinforced mine. My point was, why would he change my opinion with his narrowminded mindset when there are professionals with thousands of hours having the same opinion as me? I've played several hours a day and I've not encountered a single dead hard at end screen. Viable, no chance, you think you did something clever, get over yourself.
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The tight shred windows are at corners.
I only watched about half of the video, and you are talking about corners, when the video demonstrates reacting the the shred, which is skillfull, and I agree you managing to bait that out, should reward you, but just as a m1 killer baiting out DH, if the survivor never falls for it and hits the DH timing, more often than not it's an experienced survivor with alot of hours played, and this should reward the survivor. Once again, you proved my point, stop being narrowminded.
Edit: We can talk about maths how much we want, but there are killers out there constantly playing with lag or abusing vpn switches which REWARDS THEM, seldom have I ever survived around a corner versus an attack from either demo or a projectile killer.
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Copium
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Agreed, thought about this the instant they changed it. Their argument was "it encourages tunneling". But this literally encourages tunneling more, since you can proc the endurance for deep wound, and their DH is useless, easy tunnel.
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Which the dev team should be, esoteric that is. But it shows they don't play their own game enough.
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The video is more of just how the perk was not fine and showing the certain shred windows where you baiting it would still let the survivor E for distance.
I don't see how I'm being narrowminded. You think they should let you still keep DH if you fat finger it and I'm showing how the perk can be used for distance and punishes the killer for outplaying the survivor. Like isn't that your entire point? You think that you should be allowed to keep it if you fat finger it and I explaining how the perk can be used for distance and letting players keep the perk would be too rewarding and shouldn't work like that.
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Absolutely not. If anything they should nerf it even further and bury it completely. That perk has been way too good for way too long and if its even viable enough to see 1% usage that's 1% too much for my liking.
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You think they should let you still keep DH if you fat finger it and I'm showing how the perk can be used for distance and punishes the killer for outplaying the survivor. Like isn't that your entire point?
No no my point is this, let's say you play vs a huntress, she is winding up an axe, you deadhard, she throws it into the object in front of her (mistake from the killer), then you create distance, manage to lose her, this is my point.
But what I mean by mistake is for example the DH button is the same as setting up a boon, it has happened that I've deadharded when trying to set up my boon, for some reason after releasing shift and being static, and the "set up boon" button being on my screen, not the dead hard button. I've played enough for strange occurences like these to happen, that is the mistake I'm talking about.
Anyway, thank you all for being willing to discuss. Whatever we talk about here will be ignored by the devs anyway. I will simply force myself to play DH cause after the update the other exhaustion perks have made the game really boring. I have to adapt, and get better at looping and mindgaming and less reliant on DH. Even before the nerf I got downed way to much while having DH equipped cause I relied on it. Sprint burst now has won me more games than ever before and my looping is better and longer with it since you're rarely taking that first hit thus keeping both health states for looping.
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I agree with it being good, but being good for long is not a good reason to nerf, it got nerfed cause it was overused, not overpowered, sprint burst is better, just not that fun. As I replied above to another comment, after the nerf I've been using SB, self-aware, vigil & windows. I win more games and my looping is longer (majority of the times 4+ gens), it's just not that chill and fun, can't really explain why. Before the nerf I died more often and got downed earlier cause I was too reliant on it and it didn't work majority of the times, but winning more doesn't always equal more fun I guess. If you don't understand where I'm coming from, that's fine, thanks for reading & thank you for your input.
Edit: What I mean with SB being less fun even though it's winning me more games is that, the dopamine from hitting an insane DH timing after several FOV techs and being called out for auto DH, was higher than looping longer and more successfully with SB. 😂
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It was both overused and overpowered. The original version was way more overpowered than the 2022 version but that doesn't make either of them fun or interactive. There's nothing exiting about catching up with a survivor then having to wait several seconds to see if they have a get out of jail free card.
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Still 10% pickrate, and this is gonna go up, not down. Just like 6.1.0. Only difference is it will be used together with another Exhaustion perk.
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It’s a breath of fresh air to not see 3 or 4 Dead Hards every match. Hopefully it stays that way
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You just provedy point sadly. You called it yourself OPINIONS. Making it not facts no matter how these "professionals" say it DH is still a good perk and I have seen it use since the patch.
People call it a dead or useless perk now because they can only use it twice and are punished for being misplayed or making a mistake. If you were making the DH plays pre patch youll still make the plays.
If they share your opinion that's perfectly fine but at the end they are just that opinions and not facts. If someone doesn't share your opinion that's perfectly fine but don't start toting around "professionals said this....." Trying to change someones opinion or trying to disregard thier opinion when it doesn't match your own.
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i get that you want the perk to be viable but it deserves to rot for the agony it has caused me
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I don't understand why people are trying so hard to save this perk. It never provided any value, didn't work due to ping, and it was extremely easy to bait out in all situations. Can't figure out why anybody even used it to begin with!!!
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