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Sprint Burst is fine, Lithe and Overcome are the issue.
wanted to quickly talk about exhaustion perks and how Lithe and Overcome need nerfs/reworks.
I think it should be clear as day as to why Sprint Burst is fair but Lithe and Overcome aren’t:
SB can partially handicap you due to your higher amounts of walking around to save it. Ntm, the 99-ing SB tactic still requires you to recover from exhausted and then keep at that without interrupting it (making you possibly indirectly do gens less). Sprint Burst has actual skill and balance attached because it isn’t like old DH which was on command ready when necessary.
Lithe on the other hand, is BS. There’s very little skill attached to it due to it barely handicapping you (if it all). One vault and boom, you get a 50% speed boost. Always during chase which means that a killer has already spent time chasing you and then you cuck them over and punish them by vaulting once, unlike SB which usually starts before/early (unless you 99, but as mentioned, that requires more effort).
Overcome just needs a complete overhaul because it encourages hit and run gameplay with less commitment to chases (which people find boring as 90% of the community has told me). Also, zero disadvantages. Z E R O. Unless you count the exhausted effect, it has zero downsides as as soon as you get injured, you get a speed boost, making it effective in coordinated play if the killer leaves since they can just get to an ally quicker.
the other exhaustion perks currently are fine, Smash hit and Head on have fair conditions. Balanced landing is a bit on the rocky side because it so extremely map dependent, but it’s passable.
TL;DR:
SB is fair and Skillful, Lithe is more problematic, Overcome encourages boring play and should be changed. Other exhaustion perks are fine.
Comments
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This can't be serious.
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I think all three are fine as they are.
Lithe requires you to find a vault.
Overcome requires you to get hit.
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Finding a vault isn’t really that hard 90% of the time though, especially with WoW being very popular currently.
not saying Overcome is broken, but I think it encourages boring gameplay.
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Holding SB isn't that hard, considering how popular the new heartbeat UI is.
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I can understand your argument behind Lithe, but Overcome does have a huge downside - if you're already injured, it doesn't do anything, meaning it doesn't help you at all if you're being tunneled.
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I suppose that is true, tunneling should really be addressed though because that counters like, everything.
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No disrespect, but all of this is nonsense, and I knew this would eventually come up once DH was nerfed into oblivion.
I'm tired of both sides trying to take everything even remotely fun out of this game.
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idk what the Heartbeat UI has to do with 99-ing sprint burst though, I use it as I am hard of hearing but I don’t see how it can help at 99-ing more effectively.
i respectfully ask if you could enlighten me.
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The heartbeat UI can be used to determine the closeness of the Killer without paying attention, for some.
You don't even need to hear to be able to 99 SB and yet, you think that's fine but needing to find a vault location isn't?
Either SB is also an issue or Lithe isn't an issue. It's activation and usage condition is more difficult than SB's.
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I don’t want these perks to be perks to be mega nerfed or anything.
Lithe I just want slightly less effective (maybe 5-10% less speed) because I feel the activation is too easy for it’s effect.
overcome should be overhauled because I think it encourages boring gameplay from killer side.
I play both sides, I want this game to be a healthy as it can be on both sides.
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But Lithe is much better usually unless it’s a stealth killer because effective teams can get better use of Lithe as opposed to SB because the 99-ing may indirectly cause to less gens being done.
now if we’re only talking about high level play then I suppose SB is also an issue. But usually it isn’t as most people use SB right as chase starts and then you can just not commit. (Although I do still think perks should be judged with higher skill levels unless the perk is a meme).
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Welp I was wondering what the next "The reason I didn't get a 4k was " perk was after DH
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@Akumakaji I love you and respect you bro but I'm sorry. It's already starting just like I said
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I'm not gonna sugarcoat it these are hardly prerequisites
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Neither is SB yet that's apparently a fair perk with a trade off that was always better than DH
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That...was my entire point.
They all have the same tier of pre-requisite as SB.
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Not imo :P
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Here we go.. who didn't see this coming after the DH nerf. Are survivors meant to adapt or just give in? It's getting pathetic now.
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So how would you change Overcome to make it more engaging while not making it weaker?
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Thanks for clarifying
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Wish overcome still worked with endurance, big sad Jonah Main death
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I don't see how anybody can see Overcome as an issue. Imo close to the worst exhaustion perk in the game.
Smash hit and it are in a neck on neck race to be the worst now that selfhealing is harder.
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overcome has drawback, you need to be healed to use it and instant down killer counter it. you can counter Lithe by cutting off the survivor and you can hit survivor during a vault which shrinks their sprint burst as they are locked in animation. Sprint burst is similar. you can cut survivor off in many situations if they're in the corner of the map and ignore people that follow you around with 99% SB since they're just free generator defence. Just be careful that a lot of people do that are usually running flashlights and can be really annoying with flashlight saves.
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We all knew that as soon as DH got buried the other exhaustion perks were next.
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Lithe and overcome had 0 complains for a long time, just because their good perks doesnt mean they deserve a nerf. Dead hard already got nerfed no need to nerf everything else.
Also overcome is useless vs plague.
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Give the killer a hook in order to activate lmao
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whats a jonah main?
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Addressing tunneling will always be hard, because it can't be done in a way that survivors can manipulate to their own advantage. Because that happened every single time the Devs tried to address tunneling without perks
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The thing with all this perks, though is, that you usually can't use them ON COMMAND on the very spot you need them, something that separated DH from every other exhaustion perk. No matter how much out of position you were or how much you walked yourself into a sticky situation, DH gave you a shot ON THE SPOT, right then and there. And the better players got on using the perk, the more obnoxious and oppressive it got.
A vault for Lithe might not be hard to find, but you can't just Lithe every time you need it, AND you usually can't save it for later in the chase, as slow vaulting will usually get you hit. SB is the only perk that can sometimes, somewhat be used on command, ie by 99% it, but thats hardly a regular occurence and such a high skill thing to do, that I am still alwas impressed when it happens. Thats why the front loaded nature if this perks feels much less obnoxious and enervating then DH did.
As I said, some peeps might ask for nerfs, but this is just a vocal minority, just count the number of daily threads you get.
Dang, my dear. That was fast and rought. But I still have hope that we can all weather the storm >_<
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I want to have hope but this caught me off guard completely
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Lithe is worser than dh it has no counter play it allows survivors to make mistakes in many loops when they would otherwise go down. I have always hated lithe the most it just was rare before. Dh just was more annoying because everyone used it and you had to bait it out even if no-one had it...
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Good lord, is this topic even serious?
I have played a lot of killer and have never once gotten mad over a Lithe, BL, or Overcome usage. These are gonna be the new issue now?
DH stood alone on its BS tier for years, but the rest of the exhaustion perks are fine. Come on.
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The thing is, though: if you use sprint burst and the killer doesnt commit, you lost nothing but an exhaustion you regain while working on a gen. If he commits, you will get a second speedboost the moment the killer hits you, extending the chase further.
with lithe, you have to reach the vault before the killer. Often, you will still get hit, and while you get your speed boost, you also lost your hit-speedboost and even if the killer doesnt commit further, you have to go heal somewhere.
And with overcome, you get to keep your hit bonus, but you will always get hit to use it, needing time to heal.
And thus, its a little strange, because in all those scenarios, sb has the best outcome.
It also has an easier prequisit than lithe, because while you can always decide to just walk, you cannot always choose to be near a vault.
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I don't think I have ever seen anyone use Overcome, ever. Honestly I wish they did, it'd be interesting to figure out how to play against it.
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There's no way Lithe and Overcome are in need of the nurf hammer. Especially Overcome with its requirements and drawbacks. But Lithe can be cucked by the map even with Windows guiding you.
Neither are more consistent over time as Sprint Burst.
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It was my exhaustion of choice from the moment Jonah was released. I've dropped it now because of the healing nerfs.
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Which...also lead to Lucky break nerf because of 8sec less of the remaining charges.
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Didn't it get worse because of the adjustments to on hit sprint lasting shorter? I don't remember Overcome getting buffed to compensate for the nerf.
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I mostly agree.
Though, how exactly is Overcome 'fun' to use? It's the most boring exhaustion perk in my opinion. You don't really do anything for it other than equipping the perk and getting hit.
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Sure is fun when I have to take ages longer to catch up to a mediocre survivor
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If it wasn't such a huge effect it wouldn't matter but it is. Either make the perks take more skill or nerf their effect
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No no, I pretend I didn't read this.
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Also useless if the Killer tunnels, and very bad against instadowns
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Exhaustion perks already have a downside which is the exhaustion effect itself. They are not some sort of unbalanced perk-set and, if anything, one of the exhaustion perks needs a minor boost - Balanced Landing. This perk is so situational, I reckon the stumble exhaustiin needs to be removed and have exhaustion solely effect the Sprint Burst.
I've even seen Lithe as a hinderance on a couple of occasions. One survivor I chased used Lithe in Gideon Meat Plant and I'm guessing they either didn't think it was active or underestimated the tile, but they went sprinting into a corner and appeared stuck momentarily.
Exhaustion perks are fine and this is speaking from someone who plays both sides equally.
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Get better or get over it.
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could say the same to u if u complained about the perks getting nerfed lol
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So Lithe is an exhaustion perk, but your issue with it is that it too easy to use, but you said that you chased a survivor for a while then boom, Lithe. That doesn't add up because if the chase lasted a minute, no doubt they had to use at least one vault or pallet vault, which Lithe wouldn't be relevant because the survivor is exhausted, or did they use nothing for the entire time then decided to Lithe outta there? Just doesn't make any sense.
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How? I never get the methods of letting survivors live longer is "boring" to them, do they just want to get steamrolled by a nurse because that is "fun"?
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Didn't we say they were going to go after other exhaustion next?
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