Killers should be punished for tunnelling and not rewarded
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I don't know about giving a penalty for tunneling, but I can say this. I tried to get a ton of my friends into this game and when they got tunneled out a bunch of times they all quit.
Said they barely got to play, got such little points and the killer got plenty for doing that. Just an observation.
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So yeah we agree it's possible for Killers to "Win" without tunneling, they don't have to Tunnel they want to, it's 100% reasonable to observe other strategies the fact that you don't is a mindset you put yourself in because you don't want the possibility that you might not "Win" and you don't want to be okay with "Losing" even though you're telling survivors they should be okay with "Losing"
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I'm not sure what you mean by saying survivors should be ok with losing. Even with tunneling you're going to lose as you could with gen focus.
But like I said, is it possible sure the same way its possible for survivors to win while doing all totems and chest and spreading their gen progress. They don't "need" to focus gens they want to.
I wouldn't say its reasonable to ask people to play sub optimally on purpose while trying to win, especially whole they don't do the same on their side. If its the most efficient strategy then it is what it is. We should buff other strats up to that level before dragging this one down.
You seem to be making it about ego when generally that's not really the case. People just want their best shot at winning, which yeah that makes complete sense. You don't have an ego just because you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot every match.
Now if both sides agree to play sub optimally than sure that's different since it'll equalize the playing field, but that's not really what I see being expressed.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
I meant it sounds like you're telling survivors they should be okay with being tunneled out of the game because that's the only play style some Killers choose.
Gens are the main objective for survivors that's how they escape, unless there's only one Survivor in the game in which they can try to find hatch before the killer does. Tunneling is an optional play style it's one way killers are able to do their objective But not the only way.
Survivors need Gens to get as many as possible out of the exit gates unless the devs decide to add a third way for more then one survivor to escape. (Not sure what that could be)
Considering Gens are already 90 seconds long and Killers have Gen regression perks, and their goal is to get Hooks/Kills (As in occupying a survivor's time and taking them away from a Gen) and once a Survivor has been hooked three times they're out of the game while the killer gets to go all the way until the end, I don't see why survivors should have to slow down because of a Killers inability to keep up with regressing the Gens, that's a part of the challenge Killers face in this game if you don't have that then and the only thing you have to worry about is whether or not the Survivor you're chasing is good at looping which for me would take away from playing Killer and make it boring and almost predictable, as in if I knew I had a whole chunk of time to stay in a chase for far too long or to get the amount of kills I want to be happy.
I never said Killers should stop getting hooks or kills or not try to win I'm saying they should use different play styles, when every killer you go against tunnels you out of the game as soon as possible it makes it very unappealing to play Survivor.
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You are asking the killer to slow down their main objective. If killers have to be fine with survivors slamming gens survivors have to be fine with killers slamming kills.
So the survivors who want to keep slamming gens should not be complaining about tunneling. That's hypocrisy otherwise.
The killers main objective is kills, you are asking them to get a kill partway then go work on another one or do something else. The survivor equivalent would be to do a gen partway, then go work on another one or do something else.
Just because the killer has different ways to delay themselves doesn't change that they're doing it. Survivors have their own ways to delay themselves.
Survivors need gens and killers need kills. To use your phrase, I don't see why killers should have to slow down just because of survivors inability to keep up with kill speeds.
Killers have regression, survivors have gen speed perks and toolboxes. Survivors have looping to delay downs and by extension kills.
Any other strat is delaying yourself significantly since currently nothing compares to getting a player out the game ASAP. Not tunneling is not fully trying to win. You're handicapping yourself. Same as not focusing gens.
Everything you're saying about killers can be reflected to survivors in their own version, so both either slow down or shouldn't expect the other to do so while they don't.
Killer is also miserable when gens fly.
Post edited by MrPenguin on3 -
Agreed. I'm glad camping is getting addressed but tunneling must be next on the list. HOWEVER...In order to do so, survivor side must be nerfed/adjusted accordingly. Either we keep both tunneling and gen rushing or we get rid of both. There''s no other way.
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Killers SHOULD be allowed to do these thing IF they want to.
If killer mains showed up and said that "survivors shouldn't be allowed to stun with pallets" or "bring flashlights" or "perform team heals, so tawxic!" They would get laughed out of the room
"Survivors can just do gens! Everything else is just optionnal."
Is a bad argument the same way yours is.
Stop trying to dictate how others should have THEIR fun.
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Survivors should be punished for genrushing and not rewarded.
And banned because of flashlight save y'know.
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Is it perhaps the time to bring back old Ruin, and old DS again? I mean, the way the game is played these days is just a toxic sweatfest, on both sides. No one, besides a few people are playing for fun and chilling out it seems like.
Either that or there has to be a penalty system in place to prevent tunneling/camping and genrushing, so that we get rid of this current meta. - I also believe the SBMM change is somewhat to blame for the rise of scummy tactics.
What I would propose at least is something like this:
- Survivors are fully invulnerable after getting unhooked, until they perform a conspicous action, or someone else is put on a hook.
- Killers who stay within the proximity of a hook for a prolonged while, while also not being in a chase will get a negative debuff to all Bloodpoint gains (subtracted after the match), that progressively gets stronger the more they camp the proximity of the hook (shown as a debuff icon with a counter that goes from 0-100). If said counter reaches 100%, the killer will not gain any bloodpoints after the match.
- Killers with traps are prevented from placing these within a 12 meter radius of the hooked survivor. Previously placed traps within the radius gets deactivated (Similar to how Skull Merchant drones work)
- Survivors that rush generators will suffer a speed penalty to all repairing if they complete generators too fast.
- If two generators gets done within 60 seconds of eachother, a 10% reduction of repair speed will take place on the 3rd generator. (takes 99 seconds to complete).
- If two generators are done within 30 seconds of eachother, a 25% repair debuff gets applied to the 3rd generator. (takes 112.5 seconds to complete).
- If two generators are done within 15 seconds of eachother, a 40% repair debuff gets applied to the 3rd generator. (takes 126 seconds to complete).
- If three generators are completed within 90 seconds of eachother, a 20% repair debuff gets applied to the 4th generator (takes 108 seconds to complete)
- If three generators are completed within 50 seconds of eachother, a 40% repair debuff gets applied to the 4th generator (takes 126 seconds to complete)
- If three generators are completed within 25 seconds of eachother, a 60% repair debuff gets applied to the 4th generator (takes 144 seconds to complete)
- If four generators gets repaired within 120 seconds of eachother, a 100% repair debuff gets applied to the last generator (takes a full 3 minutes to complete),
- If a survivor is killed or sacrificed during the debuff duration, all debuffs are reduced by 50% of their initial strength.
- If two survivors are killed during the debuff duration, all debuffs are deactivated.
This would likely eliminate the current meta, and force players into a more fun and interactive way of playing. It would also reduce the power of SWF groups, as they won't be able to genrush as easily, while the last member of the team is occupying the killer
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Tunneling is an optional play style, when I played Survivor I went against plenty of killers who didn't need to tunnel to get a 4K I watch plenty of streamers who play killer and they don't need to tunnel to get a 4K, it's not handcuffing yourself to try other play styles that you may or may not be good at. Some Killers just don't want to try other ways of getting kills because they're possibly afraid of losing.
I'm not deciding anything for anybody these are just my opinions this whole thread is about opinions.
Post edited by Mane on0 -
When a killer ignores 3 other objectives to target 1 objective only, each and every single game while the survivors have no choice BUT to do their one and only objective, yes, it really is unsportsmanlike.
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A strategy is not a strategy when it becomes oppressive. When this happens it stops being a strategy and is called a Meta. There's nothing wrong with that happening every so often until it becomes completely unbearable and ruins the point of the game, which is fun for BOTH sides not just one.
A developer can be wrong about how their game functions over time from from time to time. An example of this can be see with Fortnite in the past many times. It is up to the playerbase to help correct what is wrong with the game and fix it for the better.
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Killers have been able to tunnel rampantly for over 4-5 seasons now and you think survivors need to be nerfed on top of that as well?
That just doesn't make sense, if a killer can't put enough pressure on gens then they don't deserve to win. Just like if survivors don't put enough time into gens they don't deserve to win (minus hatch ofc).
What needs to happen from my understanding is the following:
- ALL gens should be increased to 140s upon spawning into a game until one gen has been complete, then the other gens should reset down to the 90s we have currently, retaining their gen progression.
- Killers need more objectives, killing survivors is not enough, maybe the ability to turn some loops off for a while (they have to look for the switch), or anything else of the sort
- Tunnelling needs overhauling because it is too oppressive and as the current Meta it proves that the other strategies are not a viable option anymore or as strong as they sound.
- EVERYTHING OTHER KILLER STRATEGY EXCEPT TUNNELING IS FINE (if you're going to mention survivors doing gens.. the first Bullet point)
- Survivors need more to do than just gens to keep games interesting over time and to keep every game fresh.
Also, playing as killer is not as bad as people make it out to seem, every time I log in I have no problem finding lobbies quickly so clearly killer queue times aren't as affected as people are making it out to be.
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