Will DC penalty be removed now that bots are joining?
If not, then why?
Answers
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No because people would shop for games
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Because I paid for a game to play against other people, I didn't buy DbD just to face bots.
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They honestly should, or else people will just suixide on hook and still leave a 3v1 situation...
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Think a little, no consequences to anything would be terrible, always there will be people trying to bend mechanics to unhealthy ways.
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If there weren't any DC penalties, people wouldn't have any reason not to DC. Even with the bots implemented, DCing is still poor behaviour that should be penalised- the bots are intended to make things less miserable for the players that stick around, not to encourage people to just ragequit out of matches that don't go their way.
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I know I'm in the minority, and perhaps it's for the best, but with the bots I don't see a need for massive DC penalties anymore.
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Just wait till one or even two gens pop for a killer during their first chase or if they get a bad map. You will never be able to play a full game again.
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I personally don't care too much but I'd rather they lower the penalties of D/Cs to a hard cap so people aren't locked out for an entire night from playing the game. I do want some penalty for leaving though. Seen numerous times how bad its gotten when the D/C penalty was turned off so I'd def steer away from that.
Always been a supporter of letting people leave a match if they aren't having fun. No one should be forced to stick around for others.
But it has to be reasonable.
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That's how DBD was when I started playing.
Perhaps I just got too used to it.
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The bot isn't there so you can DC, they're there so they can pick up the slack you refused to deal with.
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Because you chose to disconnect. That's why.
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You do know only survivors get bots right?
What are you going to do? Only remove DC penalties for survivors? The community will love that.
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Its a really tough choice. Without penalty, people would constantly DC. But with penalty, people would suicide on hook and left 1v3 instead of a bot helping you.
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Before the DC penalty was implemented and the multiple times it has been disabled, player's just disconnected immediatly over anything they didn't like, alot of players in this game sadly have poor game etiquette. Players that dislike the time-out because it prevents them from constantly leaving match's they disagree with, shouldn't be playing a multiplayer game in the first place, there's a general understanding that all players in a multiplayer game have a chance to lose. The bot's are not a reason for those players to leave the match and immediately cue up for another just to do the exact same thing, the bots are to make up for essentially a players temper tantrum.
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DbD was like that before and it was not problem. It helped matchmaking as well. Whenever you see you are losing, you were going to next game.
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BOTS don't mean its ok to be a quitter.
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Pretty much. I don't really see the DC bots as having a big impact on the game overall. Yeah, they'll help for someone who DCs/gets DC'd early on, but they're not going to do anything for someone taking a hook out or AFKing because it's Wesker #27 in a row or the server ping is more ridiculous than usual.
It'd be a much better alternative to give players the option of leaving and having a bot swap in for them. Even if it causes a five minute re-queue penalty.
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Just because you got used to eating dirt in the past doesn't mean eating rotten food "ain't that bad" nowadays
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Just because behavior went out and bought Band-Aids that isn't an excuse to keep creating injuries.
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Meh.
If people aren't having fun they aren't going to play.
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Thought I understand why there are ppl who want dc penalties gone and part of me wants that too but I feel removing them could lead to hurting the game more than helping. I can't help to feel that if there was no punishment for DCing at all, it would just lead both killers and survivors to dc the moment they feel like they are losing. This could lead to killers having to play against more bots than people. Turning a pvp game into more of a pve game which a lot of ppl don't want. Including myself since I find going up against bot super boring and if most of my matches were bot matches I would stop playing dbd altogether. Also, SWF would have a harder time finding full matches since most killers would dc the sec they believe they going against one
That said the devs could remove the penalties and see what happens. If what I said comes true tho I think they need to act fast and reenable dc penalties as fast as they can.
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I heard civilization is a fun game.
but despite having no fun in dbd, what do people do, once their penalty is over? They queue up for the next match… and the next…
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Fun in DBD is uniquely subjective on how nice your opponents are feeling.
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It was a problem, I used to play and survivor queues were quick but noody could play a full game unless it was a SWF. Then the killers in those games would just leave when the game looked bad.
Killers Queues were also quick but that was when killers could switch their killer in lobby and had 1 hook Mori, anytime a killer started losing too bad they also just DCed.
Eventually, people did not DC for a while but surprisingly very few matches actually went to the end. There was almost always a DC<For the Hatch, or Killer got a bad map, or Killer downed you first, or you hit second hook etc.>. It got so bad that even when they announced DC penalties, you could literally not play the game. It was awful 2 to 5 minute queues for killer, over ten minute queues for survivor but people would DC in the first minute of the game so often no match was played.
TLDR DC penalties are a neccesary evil because you really cannot play a game without them.
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It didn't help matchmaking, it got to a point where it actively messed up queue times substantially. Because turns out if a ton of people load into games then just quit to requeue the game doesn't handle it well. In the small scale it is fine, but on a large scale it made queue times balloon. What actually helped matchmaking back then was the game being p2p because while you were a slave to the killer's client and even more susceptible to ping issues you weren't trapped playing with people across merged server regions.
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I think they should change the dc penalty to be just a flat 5. That makes it so if you want out of a game you can just take the 5 and it makes it so players are much less likely to lobby shop or dc when they see Wesker.
If they fully remove it I think it would be really bad for the game with how players have acted with old Spirit and the times where they removed the penalty because of crashing. A flat 5 still discourages players from wanting to dc on a whim but would also makes the issue with gg go next not as big of a problem since you at least get a bot to replace that player, and to be honest that bot will be putting in more work anyway.
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I just liked this era more than now.
DC penalties killed queues and for fix this, we got this terrible mmr system. And then mmr system made games even more unbalanced and this ended with nerfing meta perks.
Old DbD was better, nothing can change my mind. I enjoyed more.
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I don't think it was only MMR, but more game balance choices. IMO the game took a sharp turn away from 'chase survivors for pressure' to 'camp literally everything' mostly after 6.1. Camp hooks, camp slugs, camp 3 gens, do anything other than prioritize chases, in fact, drop chase to prioritize kicking gens.
Before that patch, the killer mantra was 'gens aren't worth kicking' because it was a more valuable use of time to always be in chase. Contrast that with the CoBruption meta that 6.1 gave us, where the game largely turned into gen kick simulator.
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Ah this is a good point. I never thought of it like this and this is exactly what people will do now.
To avoid bringing a bot in for the killer they'll just die on hook to be spiteful. Lol oh boy can't wait to see this, here we go again.
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I can confirm that they are not being removed. The DC bots are there as a backup plan: They're better than not having a teammate at all, but they aren't expected to be as good as a real player.
Beyond that, this is a multiplayer game first and foremost. Abandoning the match affects other people. The DC penalties exist to discourage people from leaving an excessive number of matches over the slightest inconveniences. Removing them would only make it more acceptable to quit and leave your teammates to play with a (possibly) less capable bot. If someone cannot be bothered to commit to a match, or has such an unstable connection that they regularly lose connection, they need to reconsider whether or not they should be playing an online game. It is not fair to expect the other people in the match to deal with the consequences because of them.
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Why not scrap the Bots?
The Bots will only provide more points for the Killer in a game the Killer is already winning. It does not matter if it is a 3v1 without Bots or a 3+Botv1. The Bots dont provide any Support to the Survivors, they only provide more points to the Killer.
You wont have this discussion if DC-Penalty can be removed if you would not go for the failed attempt to add Bots in regular games. Like, play a few custom games against Bots and you should notice that they wont be of any help for the remaining Survivors.
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Still better than nothing. Bots at least do gens, unlike the guy who rage quit.
Of course it’s still not going to be as great as having 4 actual players, but having a gen jockey who can occasionally stall is better than nothing.
And survivors can get more points as well, not just the killer.
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We would rather see how they play out in real matches before jumping to any conclusions, but if the worst case scenario is that the Killer isn't denied points that they would have gotten had the Survivor not disconnected, that's still a pretty good worst case scenario. That is a positive change for the Killer, at least.
That said, even a bot can repair a generator or take some time- even if it's only 30 seconds- to catch and hook. This would be beneficial compared to not having a teammate at all.
I am not a fan of using a defeatist attitude as a reason to not try to make improvements. Yes, we recognize that bots are not and will never be a true replacement for real players. Yes, we realize that in most cases, you would rather have a real teammate than a bot. But just because this isn't a magical perfect solution doesn't mean that it's better to sit here and do nothing. Doing something to help address and reduce the scale of a problem is better than doing absolutely nothing and letting the problem remain.
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Yeah, but the right approach would be to tackle the reasons WHY players DC. Which is not really done. E.g. tunneling got buffed with the nerf of DS. Camping got buffed with the increase of Gen-Time (even tho, something is done againt camping, at least facecamping, but it wont change much since the Killer can just proxy-camp).
I mean, sure, there will always be DCs by some salty players who DC at every reason. But other things which are reasons for DCs are not really solved. E.g. Skull Merchant, a Killer which should never made it through QA is probably the main reason why people DC or give up. And with Bots the only thing that will change is that Skull Merchant-players will play more PvE than PvP...
Bots are just a bandaid which help the wrong side.
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I think we will just see more killing themselves on first hook or killers slugging more when they know a survivor will just yeet out of there on first hook.
But the bots are surprisingly persistent with gens at least, so while they wont replace a skilled player they can still do at least something to help.
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We are actively looking into sources of frustration at the same time. As you've mentioned, we've already announced a system that will help combat facecamping, and we've also mentioned that we'll be looking into excessively long 3-gen situations as well.
That said, we cannot possibly solve every possible reason someone might have for disconnecting. Anyone who has been around for a while will know that sometimes people disconnect for the pettiest of things: They were the first to be chased, they got outplayed at a loop, or maybe they irrationally hate The Wraith for some reason. These are all things we cannot fix. We cannot make them invincible just because they might get upset if they are caught. Moreover, it's not possible for us to know what else is going on behind the screen. We can't tell if someone had a rough day at work, or maybe they've had a rough string of matches and they're carrying that negativity into their current one. To expect that every single disconnect is for a rational reason would be naïve of us.
And this also assumes that all disconnects are intentional. There are also legitimate connection losses that could cause someone to disappear. Much as I would love to have the power to make the world's internet perfectly stable, that is not something we can do.
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I hope the 3-gen problem is fixed for both sides. I’ve sometimes had long 3-gen games, where the generators were far apart, but the survivors would run away from the generators as soon has the heartbeat symbol showed up, which meant I would spend huge amounts of time patrolling generators and not actually finding anyone to chase.
Survivors that excessively hide from the killer are a major problem with some 3-gen situations, and if the 3-gen solution just involves nerfs for the killer, then it would just encourage survivors to really pre-leave generators as early as possible, so they can avoid the killer and be rewarded for it by BHVR’s 3-gen solution.
There’s also the major problem where some generators are so far apart, or exist in really survivor-safe areas, and it feels like they aren’t worth defending at all. And again, this is a problem because it’s not worth patrolling to these generators if the survivors are excessively hiding, because the killer won’t find anyone, especially on maps like the new map that have so more clutter that it’s unrealistic to expect the killer to search every object for a hidden survivor.
It really feels like BHVR wants to label problems as 100% the fault of the killer, and wants solutions that are just 100% nerfs for the killer, and it’s frustrating. For example, the anti-facecamping solution so far looks like it’s just 100% nerfs for the killer, and 0% of anything that might help the killer find someone else to chase so they could have a positive reason for leaving a hooked survivor. Removing hook grabs so far also looks like a 100% nerf for killers, with a 0% of anything to help killers.
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Ok, so… why are killers not punished for lobby dodging? Why can killers still force close task at loading screen to avoid a map offering they don’t like? Seems pretty one sided. And doesn’t having DC penalties just mean they’ll AFK or let go on hook?
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Survivors can leave lobby and quit on loading screen.
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These are completely unrelated things. A) The match has not started yet, so there is no penalty for leaving. Anyone who leaves will be backfilled by a new player OR the match will be cancelled and any offerings used will be returned. B) This is not one sided at all, everything you just listed goes for both sides.
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Leaving in lobby is the same thing as DC’ing against a killer you don’t like. Killers can choose to leave games they don’t think will be fun, whereas survivors can see nothing and get punished for doing so. If you think it’s fair, then don’t let the killer see survivor prestige and items and characters in lobby.
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Hey this is just a quick question on this subject. As i understand it bots will not fill in the case of killing on first hook. So im worried...most people when they do d/c is intentionally to make the match bad for the killer and survivors not as a time saver but out of spite. So when this goes into affect i feel like most people are going to just kill themselves on hook instead. Is there anyway to add bots to this situation as well?
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Thank you I know you often get heat from official answers like this but you also need appraised when you do good things
So thanks for bots and keeping the DC penalties
(Ps with bots is it possible to get a 3rd nemi zombie?)
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That's when you go to the Improved report feedback and get them for unsportsmanlike
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Is the team looking into the fact that killers are able to avoid any match where it might seem like their opponent isn't a good fit but survivors are completely blind to their fate?
Hiding prestige and showing killer ping/profiles should be priorities to improving the pre-game lobby.
Either everyone is blind or no one is.
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I support the implementation of bots, but having watched them play they seem to miss alot more skill checks than the average real player. While them being a benefit for the killer is great - more bp, getting adepts, etc - I'd really hate to have to do a gen with a bot or get healed by one that keeps missing skill checks. That'd be a real hindrance.
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I'm guessing you don't want DC penalties correct? Okay so let's say they do take away penalties. You do realize that means both sides, killer and survivor, will not have penalties. So what do you think is going to happen when a killer sees a map offering, lose multiple gens in one chase, get blinded while they pick up a survivor and ect? They will DC and guess what killers don't have bots so that means the match will just come to a end and the survivors won't be able to finish out the match. If you don't like killers lobby dodging I'm guessing you going to hate when you load into an match to have it admittedly end just bc someone brought a map offering or ect.
That said I do agree that they should hide player's prestige levels till the end of the match but I honestly don't think lobby dodging is all that bad since there is a backfill system in lobbies. Be honest, how long have you waited in lobby for a killer to accept to play against you? I know I never had to wait more than a minute personally. If the average wait is 5 to 10mins then yes that's a problem but I honestly don't think it's that. The backfill system acts pretty fast to fill the empty alot in the lobby.
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I think the biggest problem is how if there still is a DC penalty, and someone doesn't want to continue that specific match, they can still hook suicide/afk/refuse to participate in chase and only hold M1 on gens, thus negating most of the value provided by DC bots. Even then, if the banned reasons are expanded to using the unhook attempt, people will just equip Slippery Meat in soloq to justify their Kobes. Similarly a bad faith Survivor can say in post-game chat "I didn't notice the Killer" in reference to when downed or "I had to go to the bathroom". Both of which are actual events that would be difficult to prove malice in. At least with DC bots, the disinterested person can give the match a real chance of carrying on, whereas with a DC penalty remaining they are instead incentivized to end their Survivor's life ASAP to go onto the next match.
As far as the idea "people can DC for any reason", that is true. However, if you have 10+ times the DCs occuring with one Killer/map compared to the rest of the cast (Nurse and/or Skull Merchant and Springwood in particular), then the flaw is with the Killer/map, not the people DCing. The DC reveals the flaw that already exists when found in those theoretical statistical extremes.
There definitely needs to be a limit, as others have mentioned with a Killer DCing on any remotely bad map, or Survivors choosing which Killer/map combo to go against, but it should be adjusted to an extent.
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Of course the only exception for having an unstable connection is if you're playing as The Killer. In that case, the game rewards you heavily for having an unstable laggy connection. Hits are handled on The Killer's end, and survivors can't do anything about it. We have no idea how bad someone's connection is in the lobby, and even when we see the killer lag icon appear, it does nothing. It's nice to know the killer's lagging, but we don't need an icon to tell us. The game should punish those players, not reward them with hits.
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- Bots aren't a valid replacement for actual players. They are worse that real survivors in some ways (will hide forever and refuse to perform hook saves) while being better in other ways (constantly pinging killer location in real time and holding W). All they're supposed to do, is lessen the blow of losing a team mate early on in the game, and giving the killer a valid alternate target and a way to secure a kill.
- No survivors want to be sacrificed while their bot team mates get to escape.
- No killers want to go against teams full of bots.
- If you remove the DC penalty for Survivors, then you also remove it for Killers. No Killer DC penalty means you'll get a lot of DC's when too many gens pop too quickly. The number of games that simply won't be played out will skyrocket.
- You will destroy the MMR system. If survivors can DC the moment they start to lose and it looks like they're about to die (and they will) then they will avoid all negative MMR. Only accruing positive MMR when they escape, and every survivors MMR will only go up, and up, and up.
If you remove DC penalties, you will get bots in every game, this will quickly become 'that bot game' with no MMR where it's impossible to finish a game.
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