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Vaulting Speed

Why are vaulting speed nerfed? Fast vaulting is not a thing anymore.

Comments

  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279

    Welcome to era of medium vaults

  • Nirgendwohin
    Nirgendwohin Member Posts: 1,251

    (killer was from denmark, usually they have pings below 80. i'm from germany with a 40 ping)

  • Brimp
    Brimp Member Posts: 2,983

    Its not nerfed. Its bugged to go slower somehow when they reverted the changes to fast vaults to prevent the same situation from happening vice versa if they only reverted male vaults. Funny how in the end males still end up vaulting further.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,111

    You do realize that the fast vaults we had prior to the ones where male survivors went further were also bugged, right?

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,836

    In what way? Because they were working in the exact same way they had been working for more than 4 years (last changes were in patch 2.3.0).

    It was never stated to be a bug by the devs. It was labelled as an issue, which can also mean an oversight in coding (like Spirit's and Bubba's addons). Or killers not looking down after a successful hit. However that would also imply, that we never actually had the "right" fast vaults before. Meaning you wouldn't even make this argument, if they had never tempered with fast vaults to begin with.

  • Nirgendwohin
    Nirgendwohin Member Posts: 1,251

    Good point, maybe they could show us an animation how the hit box while vaulting looks like. Also how the m1 hitbox looks like at windows.

    Survivors complain they get hit after vaults and killers complain there are I-frame's with vaults.

    A small animation could clear these things up.

  • ReikoMori
    ReikoMori Member Posts: 3,333

    I honestly don't think there are any i-frames on vaults at least not intentionally.

    To me it has always seemed like when I miss a window hit that it's due to latency not being on my side at the moment or I wasn't close enough to get the hit.

    If there is i-frames I would suspect they're a consequence of the spaghetti code. Sometimes it is honestly had to tell and for as in depth as wiki is it this one area where they just don't mention it.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611

    Thanks for the info! Do we know if the "fixed" fast vaults will come back after the bugs get fixed or is there no such plan at the moment ?

  • xerox8521
    xerox8521 Member Posts: 116

    Would it possible to get a more updated version of these screenshots? Ideally for all Killers and their abilities?

  • NerfDHalready
    NerfDHalready Member Posts: 1,749

    idk how "fall down" vaults work, but that vault is pretty late and a free hit at a normal window. so it looks weird but i'm not that surprised honestly.

  • EvilTwin
    EvilTwin Member Posts: 51

    The latest fast vaults seem alot slower than the OG (pre buff) ones, even for male survivors. There seem to be barely any speed difference between medium and fast vaults. When comparing clips between the OG and new vaults there’s definitely a noticeable difference

  • Rickprado
    Rickprado Member Posts: 564

    I think it was a very lame move from the devs to "fix" vaults almost after 5 years of they work the way they worked. The could call it a balance change, as its was never adressed as a known issue in any patch note i've seen prior to the change.

    Anyway, for me, the vaults before Nick Cage were fine, i don't think they need to change anything, as most of hits comes more from latency than any other thing; also, some killer as Deathslinger or Huntress were missing their powers in midvaults as it were giving survivors iframes during the animation.

  • rafajsp
    rafajsp Member Posts: 475
    edited September 2023

    I agree with Peanits that latency take a role but other games do better of course because the servers on DBD are very bad even vs same country players.

    Take CS for example (i know it's fps and servers tickrate are better but still)

    Another example TCM that you can actually play with cross continental players.

    And those are just 2 examples ... so yeah in the end Latency play a role but this argument seems invalid for me.

    What needs to be changed is DBD code and servers be more capable.

    Lastly i have a teory:

    "Devs wanted to nerf the vault and baited it on PTB" to lure it's a bug or something reverted because only a MAGIC can not bring the PTB changes and still mess with before PTB vaults ... seems like some genius coding.

    Post edited by rafajsp on
  • hatchetChugger
    hatchetChugger Member Posts: 442

    No the male vaults before this patch were definitely bugged. They were never like that before

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,836

    They are aware of it. Peanits said it himself. There are "some inconsistencies with vaulting between male and female Survivors". What you showed us is exactly that. Play a male survivor and compare their fast vaults. Male survivors still get the normal distance and do not get hit right after a fast vault.

  • WitchWalpurga
    WitchWalpurga Member Posts: 126
    edited September 2023

    Can someone explain to me how we ended up here in the first place?


    So what was the intended change when the got whole "males vault fast than females"-thing happened? Did the devs try to make fast vaults more safe or what was the reason why they touched it at all?

  • MB666
    MB666 Member Posts: 968
    edited September 2023

    so far they dont , as killer I still can hit them after they fully finished the animation it looks like they vault further than females because their model is bigger visually in reality they dont vault any further it just visual , their hitbox is still at hit range after fully fast vaulting their capsule hitbox is still ends closer to the windows but their visual model is slightly further compared to females

    I ALREADY DID A TEST WITH FRIENDS AND YEP IS JUST THE SAME AS BS AS FEMALES NO DIFFERENCE

    both male and female are vaulting the same distance but the thing is that males do look like they vault further because they have bigger models and they look like they land forward but thats a lie , trust me , just play test this , they both can be hit in the window in the exact same way.

  • Quizzy
    Quizzy Member Posts: 862

    I just think its better to just adapt and get used to fast vaults, as always, not being completely safe and basically being equivalent to medium vaults. Even when it seems you completely finished the vaulting animation and still get hit. It wont ever get better anyways.

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,323
    edited September 2023

    Even after a dev confirmed that your first gif was not how vaults should work, it seems like you still have the misconception that the vaults "aren't working as intended" because the killer can hit you during or after it.

    As far as official information goes, fast vaults allows you to vault in 0.5 seconds in comparation with 0.9 for medium and 1.5 for slow and allows you to maintain your momentum after vaulting. They were never intended to make you immune to damage during the vault or make you gain so much distance that you are out of the attack range automatically when the animation finish.

    The only sources that says the contrary (at least the ones I found) are other survivors claiming it. Not even the wiki mention anything about fast vaulting making you gain any distance in comparation with the other vault types.

    Post edited by Batusalen on
  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,323
    edited September 2023

    First of all, "0 ping" don't exist in a multiplayer game unless it is peer 2 peer and you are the host of the game, or you are running the server in your computer. Even in a LAN, with two computers one besides the other, you don't have "0 ping".

    Second, fast internet speed has little to do with your ping. There is a lot of factors that can affect the latency you have (stability of the connection, distance to the server, being connected with cable or WiFi, and even the RJ45 cable you are using).

    So, what that video shows is a lot of missed hits, that has nothing to do with how much latency the killer had, unlike the first gif you posted where it is obviously a hit that didn't happen because the lag of the survivor and / or how hitboxes worked in the day.

    And yes, you have evidence of how they used to work. Now, show me your official source that says that's how they should work. Because again, not even in the official wiki there is any mention of fast vaulting giving you any more distance than the other vaults, much less it being more than enough for you to be out of reach, and even less that you can't be hit during or after it. They allow you to vault faster, maintain your momentum, and probably it would also give you some advantage by changing the hitbox so it is harder to hit you while doing the vault.

    The funny thing is that I'm not even against the fast vault giving you more distance or saying that is not how it should be, but again, it is an open and unobstructed space and if you are inside my attack reach, whatever is during the vault or after it, you should be hit. Simple as that.

    Post edited by Batusalen on
  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,503

    Notice the part where the tail literally collides with the survivor?

  • MB666
    MB666 Member Posts: 968
    edited September 2023

    whatever ,not going even gonna try , you just gonna excuse everything by the sake of keeping things unfair just because you dont know how the game used to work at lower latencies or maybe you are a player that always plays on higher latencies , maybe that why you think vaults should be this generous for killer, which i understand survivor is busted right now with the MFT meta still , but keeping vaults in a terrible and really weaker spot shouldnt be a thing to balance things around + it makes killer really easier reducing the skill cap of looping , soo yeah , WHATEVER moving on.

    high ping killers be like:

    I got you barely by touching 1 pixel of your hitbox so it must connect. *hits the air*

    (Ihey literally got the hit from miles away after the survivor finished the vault)

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,323
    edited September 2023

    Wanting to be able to hit the survivor as long as it is in my range attack through an open space = Not wanting things fair, as survivors should become immune because they don't like getting hits that they don't want. Got it, makes sense.

    Nice talking with you.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 3,111
    edited September 2023

    They didn’t give additional speed or distance or even allow you to maintain your current speed. They did the exact same thing as medium vaults. And they were acknowledged by the devs as being bugged—which was why they were altered/fixed/changed into the mega fast vaults that were dialed back. Peanits just mentioned it above. It’s the whole reason why fast vaults were recently changed at all: they were bugged. Lol

  • Nirgendwohin
    Nirgendwohin Member Posts: 1,251

    because of the bugged vaulting speed which is the topic of this thread

  • ShinobuSK
    ShinobuSK Member Posts: 5,279

    Looks like we will be enjoying medium vaults for at least a month

  • Kedasa
    Kedasa Member Posts: 42

    I am kinda confused tbh. Peanits says they are trying to fix the worse female vaults, but whats about the vault speed? Even though the survivors get the intended distance, the fast vaults still gonna be as fast as the medium?

  • egg_
    egg_ Member Posts: 1,933

    I'm not sure if you're purposedly circling around the problem to avoid discussing it directly, but whilst "0 ping" doesn't exist in a multiplayer game, it is a fact that hit validation in DBD only occurs when a killer is getting stunned by a pallet. There is no hit validation when vaulting windows or pallets, or when predropping a pallet, which is why killers with higher ping get an advantage (hit validation on every case other than pallet stuns happens on the killer's end), as the survivors hitboxes on their screen don't match where the survivors actually are.

    This is why people advocate for a functioning hit validation system, because this will bring killers with a better connection on par with killers with a worse connection. The video posted showcases killers (and survivors) with good connection where the survivor hitbox matches almost perfectly the pov of the survivor themselves

    So again, it boils down to: "the server should decide, so the player with the best connection gets the advantage" because as of now, it is not fair


    For reference, when I mentioned predropping pallets, I meant that situations like this can happen and they aren't even fairly uncommon:

    In this case there is no validation involved because there was no stun involved since the killer was too far, but on the killer's screen the pallet hadn't even been dropped

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,323
    edited September 2023

    "the server should decide, so the player with the best connection gets the advantage"

    And here is where all your other points fall down. The server not just "decide" anything based on "the player with the best connection". I already did multiple post of how lag compensation on a dedicated server infrastructure works in more or less detail, so if you are interested, look through the forum or look it in google.

    What I see there is an spike of lag or packets getting lost for any of those players. Again, lag compensation isn't perfect, it can only work effectively between a threshold of latency between players, but as long as the connections are stable and someone is not lagging like hell it compensates for the difference. Of course, what those lag compensation techniques do and how exactly work are on BHVR, but even if they implemented the best lag compensation in the market today, it would still do nothing on some situations. It's just how latency in gaming is, we can mitigate it's effects, but until we have some way of having "0 ping" (in other words, instant transmission of data) in every client it is how it is: Sometimes you would get hits that you shouldn't, other times you would get a free pass on hits that should have hit you.

    Also, if I'm correct in assuming that they implemented the industry standard of "favoring the shooter" like in any action game, everytime you drop a pallet and stunt the killer you have the advantage on that hit (that's why sometimes, even if the killer have obviously hit you, you are able to drop the pallet anyway and viceversa, even when the killer clearly see that he has hit you it is stunned and you don't get hit).

    In other words: You guys are talking either without understanding the base concepts of gaming networking or based on how the game worked when it was peer to peer when the game works now through dedicated servers.

  • RpTheHotrod
    RpTheHotrod Member Posts: 1,921

    They were definitely given iframes - I doubt intentionally.