Realistically, do we need 10 Macmillan maps?
As per the new Dev Update, Macmillan is receiving a change so that all current maps are getting a second version.
To me, this reads as similar to Badham (I-V) and RPD (East and West). My question- did we really need 2 versions of every Macmillan map, for a total of 10? Unless I'm reading this wrong, it means that we'll have double chances for Coal Tower, Suffocation Pit, Storehouse, Shelter Woods (oh god), and Ironwords, for a grand total of 10.
Seems just a bit extra to me.
Comments
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I like it, why not?
but: I would love to see more variants of INDOOR-Maps.
We only have 3 Indoor-Maps (well, 4 maps including RPDx2). Why do we have 3 indoor-, but 20 outdoor-maps.
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I don't think they're going to make them separate maps. They're just going to move some things around sometimes.
Also, Map selection is done by realm first, so even if they did double the number of maps in the Macmillan realm, the chance of going to a Macmillan map would still be the same.
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Need? Probably not. But I welcome a bit of variety.
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I assumed it means we get as much chance of getting McMillan but everytime we do we have 1/2 chance of having each version, but if you're right and it means we have double the chance of getting McMillan I agree it's way overkill.
In that same vein of ideas I think map randomness & anti-repeat system should be for realms and not individual maps (if that's not already the case, but it doesn't feel like it is).
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Yes we do.
I love MacMillan with both sides. They are simple and good maps.
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Did we need them? No. Did we need Alien? No. It's still nice to have them.
As long as these variations aren't completely broken, which they very well could be, let's be honest, I'm fine with it.
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Guessing it’s more like how Sanctum works. For now, it’s the only map that has two shack spawns.
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MacMillan is my favourite realm, I'm down for more of it.
Besides it being my favourite realm, it's also generally liked by most players as it's quite balanced.
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Idk. As long as the alternate versions are balanced I don’t really mind.
I still say Suffo Pit needs a rework though (along with Azarov’s Resting Place), it’s not a good map since it heavily encourages 3 gens with having the map naturally split in half and having a bunch of connected tiles in the center.
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Looking at the recently released maps and reworks my hopes aren't high, they'll probably have accidentally recreated the 2017 Ironworks and Storehouse infinite 💀
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I don't know if this means there's going to be Iron Works 1 and Iron Works 2 (for example) - or if they mean WHEN Iron Works is chosen, it just chooses a variant.
I really enjoy the Map Repeat Prevention - but I've experienced frustration with Badham the other day when I loaded into it THREE times in a row. I got Badham 4, Badham 3 and then Badham 1 (without any map offerings) - statistically mega unlikely, I'm sure, but it wasn't great.
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On the chances of the maps appearing more often: This isn't actually the case. We can control how often certain maps appear. In cases like this, maps with multiple variations have lowered chances.
For example, Suffocation Pit I or Suffocation Pit II have half the chance to appear as any other map on their own, but you're just as likely to be sent to one of the Suffocation Pit maps as any other map.
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That part, at least, is reassuring, though I can't help but feel like resources could've been better spent on some other maps (ie Garden of Joy). Ik Borgo got a touch up but it just feels like sort of doing things that don't need to be done, particularly in a realm that already is tied for highest maps. If it were, say, Yamaoka or Boneyard or Red Forest (one that doesn't have 5) I'd understand it more, but I just don't really see the point of this, yk?
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Is that also confirming they’re gonna be called [name] I & [name] II, like Badham Preschool?
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The world of maps is surprisingly complicated, but I can safely say that those are two completely different kinds of work that don't necessarily interfere with each other.
For something like this, a level designer can take existing tiles and adjust the layout fairly easily.
Meanwhile for something like Garden of Joy, say if they wanted to adjust the main house layout, they would need to work with a level artist to change the model for the building itself. Even things like changing a loop can require new art assets.
The former are fairly quick - comparatively speaking - things which level designers to do on their own, but the latter requires support from other teams which might be busy working on other things (e.g. art for new maps). It's not that it's a higher priority or delaying bigger & more important updates, but rather something they can do to add more variety to the game in the meantime.
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The only 2 versions I care about are night and day map variants. Will we be seeing nighttime return to DBD realms?
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Final question- and I promise this isn't directed to you specifically but moreso is just general feedback- why Macmillan? Why double existing Macmillan maps instead of creating some more variations for, say, Yamaoka Estate, Forsaken Boneyard (realistically that's Eyrie of Crows), Red Forest, Lèrys (I appreciate that one would probably be very difficult), etc. That's what I'm struggling to get my head around - if the goal was to increase variety, surely it'd be better to increase variety in the realms which don't have as many maps (Shattered Square would've been perfect considering the rework it's getting, and it could've been like another Badham situation) and make it so bringing a Map Offering doesn't guarantee one specific map, as opposed to doubling Macmillan.
I just don't really see the point, unfortunately. If adding variety is what they were going for, why not add some more variety where it's direly needed instead of to the Realm least in need of diversification.
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Adding new variety to maps is a healthy decision and I really like it. 👍🏻
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Would be cool to get day time and weather variants on the future of older realms. Also really want variations of single map realms - especially Dead Dawg Saloon.
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Same they are my favorite for horror themed games, win or lose.
I would love that to spice up the outdoor maps. Some maps could have thunderstorm and rains while a blizzard in the other. Night and day cycle also sounds good.
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For me nothing too crazy but admittedly I'd love to see a snow version of some of the older maps like Suffocation Pit.
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Sorry but I think this is a massive waste of development time.
I don't understand why time is constantly being spent on things noone asked for, when there's a whole host of issues and features that the community has been begging to be addressed for years...
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Except groaning storehouse.
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I thought this.
The original three realms already have five maps each. Which is more than any other realms (besides Badham for some reason).
If any realms need more maps or variations added, it's the later ones. Glendale, Withered Isle, Eyrie, Borgo, Toba Landing, etc.
This is the biggest problem with map offerings, that certain offerings give you a 100% chance of going to a given map, while the MacMillan's Phalanx will now give you a 10% chance of going to a given map.
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It really is a revolving door when you think about it. Finding the middle ground solution on maps has been one of their toughest challenges that they've sunk a lot of time and assumingly manpower into with mixed results.
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Yes, but the problem with that is that when it comes to map repeat prevention, THAT is done by ,,map, not realm. You could in theory get Badham Preschool many times in a row as first you get III, then you IV, then you II, then you I, then you III again, then you V, its very unlikely, but I've had it happen to a lesser degree. Gotten 3 different maps, no offerings, in row, all a variant of Badham. SO I really hope they are just making these variant ways the maps can spawn (like the hatch location and jungle gym configurations) but still only the single map.
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Macmillan are pretty balanced maps (so far) so it's a good choice for variety.
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That's precisely why it's not necessary. It's not like this will make Macmillan maps any more likely to spawn, just that there will be more differences between them each time. If anything, this introduces the possibility of unbalanced variations of these already balanced maps. We won't know until we see them.
It's the currently unbalanced maps that need more variations, so that the variety makes up for any strengths/weaknesses one might have.
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Why are you complaining about getting more good maps?
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As the saying goes, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"
How do you know the new variations will be good maps? They're going to be new maps, that simply reuse the assets of existing Macmillan maps.
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There's no guarantee yet that they will be good. We haven't even seen them yet.
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The unbalanced maps I'd rather see balanced or deleted.
I don't want a variation of Garden of Pain or of whatever Singularity's map is called.
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I want variations of Garden of Joy that have weaker loops/main building or a smaller footprint, so that there is a version of the map that doesn't favour survivors more than killers. This way, playing the offering for Garden of Joy won't be a tactical move used by SWF to secure a win, because it could just as easily backfire and spawn the 'killer sided' variation.
Do this to all unbalanced single-map realms and then map offerings are no longer a tool to troll with, they can be used genuinely to go to a realm of choice for the enjoyment of playing on that realm's aesthetic.
I don't want any realms deleted because that's just miserable, anti-fun rhetoric. Go play Golf or something.
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Good point.
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I just want MacMillan to have solid tree collision again.
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MacMillan maps are cool
yes from me
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I'm glad you've seen the maps already and can vouch for their balance because if it's anything like RPD East/West they'll be massively different in map balance lol
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Honestly I'm happy to see this since the original DBD maps are undoubtedly some of the best
I just wish we had the swamp rework first, that realm is such a stain on the game right now
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i wish they focused on making more maps on realms that have low amount of maps such as more variation of Ormond or more Variations of Eyrie of crows. the older realms have enough map variations. it is new variations that need more spice.
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Despite how much I play this game there are still things I have yet to catch on to, such as what maps are good or bad for different situations be it all killers, certain killers, survivors, etc.
Whenever I use map offerings as Killer I use them based off of aesthetic/where I feel like going for theming purposes. I must have confused so many Survivor teams when as Killer I use the Garden of Joy offering or some other stage offering that doesn’t make sense for the Killer I am using 😂
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I used to do this for Hawkins. Might do again for Nostromo.
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10 might be a bit extreme, but do keep in mind that most people generally consider all of the Macmillian maps (Barring Suffocation Pit being a 3-gen Hell) to be pretty balanced on average
Artificially increasing the number of balanced maps in DBD is still increasing the number of balanced maps in DBD
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I honestly suspect that this is a trial run on adding more variations of other maps in the future; MacMillan was just the easiest to try this strategy with.
People have been asking for more maps and/or variations of maps in older realms for a while, (even if it wasn't necessarily MacMillan they were asking for) but by trying to tinker with new versions of maps that people generally perceive positively, this allows them to: try out the feature without sinking too many resources into it in case players aren't happy; and train inexperienced devs on how to edit and potentially create new maps, experience which they would need to create remixes of some of the maps with more complex tiles, layouts, and assets.
I'd personally love to see a second Saloon or Chapel or Ormond with the layout of the map remixed. Heck, maybe even another Shattered Square if this upcoming rework fixes its problems.
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Mac Millan is already the best realm yet with 5 variations that Shelter wood has the main building. While Wrecked yard and Cold Wind dont have one.
The other realms need more variations, Mac Millan needs that the least.
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What a waste of time for doing that.
Seriously most maps have balance issues and making more variations won’t help fixing at all.
Also Abattoir change was unneeded.
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Uh, still. I hate that there are like FIVE freaking Preschool maps, and are they different? You claim they are by their names, but honestly I can't tell the difference between them. Why can't it just be "Badham Preschool" and then a more varied tileset that includes other things? Why does it have to be FIVE MAPS THAT ARE BASICALLY THE SAME? Please, explain to us what the difference is between variants of the majority of maps and variants like the Badham Preschool maps that you can't just... make them a single map?
As much as I hate that it was split into two, at least the Raccooon City East and West maps I can tell the difference between the two.
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Waittt maybe you could have something Suffocation Pit - Day and Suffocation Pit - Night I feel like that could be kinda cool
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Probably we do. But they should have just used the same resources to overhaul the Knights Map. Its still the most ugly map that could be.
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they have different footprints (the shape of the outer wall is different) and the layout of all the buildings in relation to each other and the road is different. 1-3 are square, but 5 is two overlapping rectangles and 4 is like 5 but with a corner cut out - it's kind of hard to explain
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its the same chance bc it doubles all the maps not just those ones
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