Buff decisive strike
Please
Comments
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No. If the killer tunnels you DS already does it's job. And enough seconds, third and forth chances already.
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Yeah, I am fine with this. Right now, when I am getting hit by DS I kinda thing "lol, this dude just wasted a perk slot".
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"does it's job" lol, everytime I see someone use it they die 5 seconds later it's incredibly weak, i don't think you can argue with that, tunneling is so free atm
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I saw a DS like three-four months ago most recently against a Nurse. They downed them again in one blink...
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I saw this user yesterday ask for a DS buff, but the buff was to disable Killer powers for X time.
I like that idea as a buff for DS because it helps vs the strongest Killers without making it unfair for the weakest.
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At the very least make the stun, as in the actual time that can be used to make distance from the killer, 3 seconds. Which would actually mean that the description should say "4.3 second stun" as ~1.3 seconds are lost to the animation of getting off their shoulder and landing on your feet.
This was the case when the stun was 5 seconds too, of course. But then the wasted time was 26% of the advertised stun time. With 3 seconds it's a whopping 43%.
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It could and should be 5 secs again like before.
If somebody stuns you, you usually catch them again. It is only a timewaste not a real chance to escape.
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You have a free Endurance from the unhooking + free haste + DS + three other slots to fill with more haste and endurance. So if you still die again at that point, it's on you.
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Agreed! At least revert the 7-second stun.
I can understand deactivating at end-game but why short stun that does little against regular killers and NOTHING against the top killers.
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Buffing DS would be a huge mistake, because it would make the rather weaker killers even weaker while the strong killers in Nurse and Blight don't mind it. In my opinion, dbd has enough good antitunnle Perks in OTR, DS, DH, and the Rebecca Perk. There would be also the issue that everyone would run DS and killers slugging more which would make the metagame very boring.
I can't speak for other killers but i want to explain why killers - myself included- sometimes (must)tunnle:
1) strong maps like Garden Of Joy and Badham are so painful and terrible for killers. The mindest is kinda "Ok hard match".
2) Genrushing: a Team with three/four toolboxes (toolboxes are still way too strong and need a nerd) that want a quickgame, so I give them a quickgame.
3) Distorion: I love to run Info-Perks like BBQ, LP, and Darkness Revealed. However, if like two/three survivors have Distorion, you are forced to tunnle because you can't find another survivor. It is also the issue that most of my games with Distortion-players are just boring because they like to hide forever.
4) Missing reasons to hook each survivor. In the past we had Bonus BP from BBQ which was a great reason/reward for many killers to hook each survivor and not to tunnle someone out of the game. Now, I don't see the point in hooking each survivor. Of cause, there is the fun part of the Match and I am aware that it is more than frustrating and annoying when you get tunnled out of the game in 2min - I am a Killermain but sometimes I play survivor and know the feeling when I get tunnled even though I have chill teammates.
5) Strong tunnling Killers: Blight and Nurse are already very strong and oppresive. They can easily tunnle one survivor out of the game. As a result, I think these two need a nerf so they are less strong and not that good at tunnling. Pinhead has also a strong Add-On that enables him easy tunnling - I forgot the name but it must be a purple one and this one should get a rework. But don't get me wrong: It's about the Power of these things and not about due to mistakes from survivors like Pyramid head is good at tunnling but only if the survivor gets torment, which is a mistake by the survivor and not an issue that should be addressed. Or if OTR/Basekit endurance-survivors try to take a hit for no reasons -> you give me the chance to tunnle you out of the game. Same goes if the doh-player is sitting in the on the edge of the map or in a deadzone.
Now, I think tunnling could be less of an issue if the maps are more balanced, toolboxes as well as Distortiom get a nerf, when the developers give the killers a reason/reward to hook each survivor once, and if Nurse and Blight get a nerf.
Of cause there are still some unhealthy reasons why killers tunnle like a) Winstreaks (it is so easy to get a +100 Winstreak when you tunnle one survivor out of the match in the first 2 min), b) some players are just sh*t af - I'm so sorry but there are some survivors that want to give the killer a bad feeling but there are also some killers that want to give the survivors a bad feeling. And maybe some more things but it is impossible to remove tunnling completly from the game.
These are my 2 Cent because tunnling is an issue in the metagame.
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Amen
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To 'normalize' the strength of DS, it should do 2 things. 1 (and more importantly), disable power for 5s/gen remaining. No Nurse Blinks for 25s if you tunnel at 5 gens. 2, disable haste effects for the same duration (less important, but still good to do). Clown and Skull Merchant shouldn't get an advantage in tunneling if they get access to their haste effects, nor should any get PWYF benefits or any other haste boosts.
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Wrong. Yesterday I watched a streamer play Huntress. The survivor DS-ed them, and started running away. The Huntress recovered fast and was able to down them with a hatchet within 4 seconds. DS is a joke right now.
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But their Excell spreadsheet says no! /s
Seriously though, they made some huge mistakes last year with the changes they made but are to cowardly to admit.
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But you see, it's a very powerful anti-tunneling perk and it "does it's job" by heavily punishing and disincentivizing the Killer from tunneling. Killers are so afraid of 3 seconds of stun, they don't even tunnel. Also if it doesn't work for you it's a skill issue.🤠/s
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You shouldn't view tunnelling as good and wanted, certainly, but you really shouldn't view tunnelling as targeted harassment, oh my god.
Tunnelling is a tactic often used because it can be the easiest shortcut to value. That is the lens that it should be viewed through, and that lens lends itself well to understanding what should be done about it; it should be weakened and it should have fair counterplay, but it shouldn't be removed outright, both because it can be a valid tactic and because any attempt at removing it would lead to some nasty unintended consequences for killers playing fairly.
To the topic: Buff the DS stun timer back up to five seconds and then survivors will have a pretty reasonable spread of tools to use against tunnelling. I don't think it'd fix the problem outright but it'd definitely be a good next step.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
imo they need to make hard tunneling more punishing and soft tunneling the preferred strat ( spreading hooks between 2 players), it's a good middle ground it's already far less obnoxious, that's what I do when I try hard and survivors rarely complain
I've played against a few blights using same strat recently, hard tunneling someone at 4-5 gens then slugging the last 3, it's the quickest way to win and it might become the new meta when people figure it out, it wouldn't be possible if hard tunneling was harder
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I want to see that, because even the average survivor can dodge a hatchet at medium distance. Have he just started running in a straight line...
... like the Ada in this gif? Because this is the perfect example. The Ada had plenty of options on what to do there. Move behind the wall before running, go to the right and enter the loop in the tile, go behind him... what did she do? Run in a straight line without losing line of sight against a ranged killer.
The only reason you want to buff a perk that does its job and grants you yet another second chance is so it covers for your mistakes even more, so you have to think about what you do even less.
Post edited by EQWashu on1 -
Yes yes... Again it's the survivor's fault and a skill issue and not because DS is total garbage. Ofcourse.🤠
Because if that was a Nurse, Blight, Huntress etc. the same wouldn't happen... Right... Yup.
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Running in a straight line without even trying to dodge or look back? Of course it would happen. Hell, she would have being downed again soon after no matter the killer with that pathing.
But again, she had plenty of options there more fitting for the situation that just making it easy for the Deathslinger to down her again. So yes, survivor's fault, and I won't say skill issue but more like lack of game sense.
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It should be buffed to 4 or even its original 5 seconds stun. However, everything else (disables after 1st successful stun, conspicuous actions like doing gens etc... and in endgame) should stay.
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Considering that Decisive Strike only activates in a scenario that we want to be weaker for the killer, wouldn't it make sense to allow it to be strong enough that it'll cover for some degree of poor play on the survivor side?
Otherwise we're basically just saying "git gud" as the solution for tunnelling, and I don't want to assume that's your actual position.
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Yeah. What they say only translates to "Get better" meanwhile DS's only premise is to discourage tunneling which it clearly fails to do so. There shouldn't be a "if" for you to get value from it when it's targeted to do one specific thing only.
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Make it 5 seconds and disable on protection hit. Only problem with pre-nerf DS is bodyblocking with it. Same with OTR.
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To cover for more poor play, you mean? Because I remember you that for you to even have the chance to use DS, I should have down you two times already.
So, again, you can have more speed and more health states on top of the 10 seconds of both things for free you have on unhook, I down you two times even with all that... and you want for the game to keep covering your bad plays?
When will be the time to say "No, if you still going down is on you, get better" then? When survivors get a 300% speed bonus and two extra Endurances when the killer M1 them? When will be the time for survivors to suffer the consequences of their decisions and actions without the game or their perks covering every single mistake they made for them?
It is not to discourage tunneling, as the killer can't know that you have it. It is to give you a chance to avoid get hooked again in the case the killer tunnels you. What you do with that chance, again, is on you.
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I'm not sure I'm following. I have to assume you aren't implying that a survivor being hooked at all means they must necessarily be playing badly, right?
Could you clarify before I answer? I don't want to misinterpret your position.
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I don't know how long you've been playing but Killers used to respect DS. Its existence alone was enough to discourage tunneling. They would rather slug you and go after someone else, leaving room for another survivor to come pick you up instead of getting stunned for 5 seconds.
Tunneling is very meta right now and Killers couldn't care less you have nerfed DS. Just like back when having no obsession meant nobody brought DS and Killers would deliberately tunnel you out ASAP. It's that meaningless.
DS is garbage, situational at best, period.
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It was you who said "poor play". Good survivors with good game sense doesn't makes poor plays, and if they do at least they would have the enough experience to know they made the wrong call in what they have done.
Who would you referring when arguing that DS should "cover for your poor plays", then? The looping gods that can loop the killer without any problem and are not affected by any mindgame you can pull off?
Besides, again, there is enough perks and mechanics covering for "poor plays" already in the game. No need for any more.
Post edited by Batusalen on0 -
Buff the and deadhard. They do suck you get nowhere.
I play alot of killer and I do notice if it used they get no distance
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Because everybody was using it, the same as how we "respected" DH when it was the most used perk, as you would assume everybody in the match has it. That doesn't means that the perk was designed so the killer "respect" it.
It was designed to give you another chance if the killer tunneled you. And it does its job. If you go down again 5 seconds later because you have so little game sense that you don't realize that if you run in a straight line without losing LOS against a ranged killer he would get you, again, it's on you.
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I can't wait for you to go against Nurse and not get downed a few seconds later after DS. I'm sure you're incredibly skillful and rest of us just suck which is the only reason why we have this opinion and nothing more.
Also nobody is talking about old dead hard right now, off topic. It doesn't relate to DS or tunneling whatsoever. They're not the same thing just because it has the word respect in it.
Anyways. I don't see this leading anywhere since I don't care enough to have an argument against "DS is good" in 2023. Thanks for the discussion.
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Nope, that was you- maybe not in those exact words, but that's exactly what you were referring to in that Ada clip. Poor pathing, poor decisions, poor play.
You're also the only one in this conversation who's been referring to being hooked at all as poor play, which seems suspect to me. Obviously players who are playing well and not making huge mistakes are still going to get hooked eventually, so that very clearly doesn't count as poor play, therefore DS won't be covering for "more" poor play as you put it- just the poor play immediately after it triggers.
You ask who I'm referring to when I say poor play, and I'll again point you to that Ada clip. Is it the end of the world if an anti-tunnel perk means that this specific player, the one you could otherwise count on being easy to down, is a less desirable target immediately after they're unhooked?
I'd argue that if anti-tunnel worked, that's exactly what it should mean. You avoid chasing people immediately after they're unhooked even if they make poor decisions and would otherwise be easy to down. Would you have an issue with that outcome?
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Funny, because I have to yet see a survivor that at least knows how to loop Nurse and not predrop pallets against a killer that can literally phase through walls.
It was on topic, as like I explained the reason killers "respected" it was because they needed to assume everybody has it, just like we did when DH was in it's prime.
And I'm not saying DS is good, I'm saying it does it's job as an anti tunneling perk as it is and the reasons you all are giving are not valid points to buff it. If you ask me, I would change it so unless used it won't deactivate permanently until the end of the trial, so if the killer doesn't tunnel you in your first hook you should not stay without doing nothing during 80 seconds just to not waste a perk slot. But you guys are not asking for that, what you are asking is to buff in a way that it will cover you for not making the right calls at the right time. Because the Entity know there is not enough of that in the game already.
Have a nice a day.
Post edited by Batusalen on2 -
Did the ada get a second chance at life thanks to DS? Yup.
Did she make the biggest mistake in DBD by W keying without looking back or even attempt to run into the tile 2 meters to the side against a ranged killer? Yup.
DS isn't meant to cover ada's/anyones lack of skill in chase / game awareness.
I can guarantee you nobody in the room is surprised that W key vs Deathslinger didn't work.
If you're going to go down soon Learn to go down near a tile/pallet so you can extend chase for another minute after DSing instead of trying to W key to comp corner just to get smacked down again after 5 seconds because you put yourself in a deadzone.
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Maybe because that Ada was making a poor play and someone used it as an argument to buff DS because it is not effective, when you can clearly see that DS give her another chance and she made the worst decision she could make in that situation and wasted it?
But as you was referring to that clip, let's points some things: First, in that exact situation the killer would follow her still, because two survivors were down and one hooked. Second, with the path she took, again, it would not matter what killer it was, she would go down again soon after. And we also have to take in count that it protects you for 80 seconds after you get unhooked, so you can technically loop the killer for almost an entire gen and still get away from it.
Now, you say that DS should have covered for her poor decision there. So the question is: Why? What is your justification, even when the game already give you 10 seconds of haste and one free hit, when you can have DS + three other perks that can cover your "poor plays" already during the match, including adding more haste and more hits on top of the free ones you have and still going down two times in a row, for DS to keep covering your "poor plays" after all of that.
Because that's my real point, that the game already have enough safe nets for survivors to be asking for another one in the form of a perk buff. So, again, explain why it should be even more another chance than it is when there is plenty of seconds chances already.
And yes, I would have an issue if yet another perk or mechanic cover even more for survivors poor decisions. The basekit BT not only already discourage tunneling by making chasing the unhooked survivors most costly than chasing the unhooker, it is a fair mechanic precisely because is not a guaranteed save for the survivors, it's just give you the chance to get to safety after being unhooked and you still have to make the right calls to get use of it (and even devs said it is how it should be). And spoilers: Using it to make a protection hit is not one of them.
In conclusion: No, the game should not cover for survivors making poor plays and not having the minimum game sense to be good at the game. At least, no more that already does.
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...So you agree it was you who brought up the notion of poor play? I'm not fighting that concept here, I'm perfectly content to debate with that in play, but it was kinda weird for you to turn it back around on me like it was my framing to begin with.
Here's the snag with your arguments here, though: All of that is in play and tunnelling is still a problem. It's still possible for a killer to gain undue amounts of value considering how much effort they put in versus how much effort the survivor has to put in to counter it. Tunnelling has not yet been fixed, and it still a problem in the game.
DS being stronger would be a healthy change, because it doesn't do anything unless the killer chooses to tunnel - or unless the survivor tries to weaponise it, but considering that's a massive win for the killer, I think we can safely discard it as a possibility for now. It's not super relevant here, I'm sure you'll agree.
There's another thing I kind of want to draw attention to here, which is your last statement. Nobody is suggesting that the game should cover for survivors making poor plays in general. When I brought that up, I was referring specifically and solely to Decisive Strike, so the actual thing being discussed is: Should killers only be punished for tunnelling if the survivor they try to tunnel is more skilled than they are?
I would argue that's already the case, personally. If the survivor is noticeably skilled at looping, they're already not the ones tunnelled off hook that frequently. DS as it is now only punishes killers for trying to tunnel very skilled survivors, and that's redundant. DS, specifically, probably should punish you for trying to tunnel the weak link, because that's where tunnelling is at its most problematic right now.
It's all well and good to say survivors should improve, but that only comes with practice, and the killer being free to tunnel them out because the current anti-tunnel implementation is flawed and only works for the already-skilled severely cuts down how much they can attempt that practice.
Let's say that DS was improved to be a 5-second stun again. Does this affect skilled killers who are facing skilled survivors? No, because in that situation we're self-selecting for killers that are skilled, they're probably not tunnelling anyway and they definitely wouldn't tunnel players who they know are skilled. It'll only affect killers who choose to tunnel players they perceive as weaker, which... is what anti-tunnel should do, surely? It should be a deterrent from chasing someone as soon as they're unhooked, and considering we're specifically talking about DS, there's not even any concern about weaponising it for bodyblocking like there is with Endurance.
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Nobody is asking for DS to fix anyone's lack of knowledge. Idk where y'all get that from. I didn't even make any buff suggestions.
I simply showed an example that 3 seconds doesn't even give you enough distance against certain killers that can either range-hit or teleport deeming the perk useless. That's it.
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I said what I said and I keep saying it. It was you who said that I meant that every single hooked survivor was because poor play when I said that, tho. So stop the mental gymnastics.
Here's the snag with your arguments here, though: All of that is in play and tunnelling is still a problem. [...] DS being stronger would be a healthy change, because it doesn't do anything unless the killer chooses to tunnel
Here's the snag with your arguments here, though: Survivors use DS as a tool to block the killer and protect other survivors. Make it stronger, and they would use it as a bully tool even more. So, it won't be a healthy change, but the reverse. Also, adding more safe nets to the game would only make play survivor feel more dull, as the game is doing all the heavy lifting for you without the need of developing any game sense, and would make play killer more frustrating as you are going against that survivor's perks and the game mechanics, not their skill. I won't call that precisely "healthy" for anybody.
Also, your "effort put in it" argument is bogus. As I said, with 10 seconds of free haste + endurance + survivors own perks, the effort the killer needs to put to tunnel that survivors is exactly the how difficult that survivor makes for the killer to down him again. The unhooked survivor can get to a pallet or a TL to make another full chase again, other survivor can help him by body blocking the killer and force him to break chase, etc. And if you play killer, you should know that.
Nobody is suggesting that the game should cover for survivors making poor plays in general. [...] Should killers only be punished for tunnelling if the survivor they try to tunnel is more skilled than they are?
Yes you are, when again, there is plenty of second chances and safe nets for survivors and you want yet another one when he goes down after using all the others.
And at this point, with all the second chances you have even before getting to the point of getting tunneled being a possibility, yes. Not that they aren't already punished in all cases by, again, making it more costly chasing the unhooked survivor than the unhooker, but if the unhooked survivors is not skilled enough to get use of their free gifts or make the dumb decision of staying 4 seconds blocking the killer to use them as a protection hit tool, it is the survivor's fault and can't blame anyone but himself for it. Get unhooked, get the hell out of there as fast as you can to the closest loop, and if the killer has followed you start looping him again. Not have the enough game sense to do that? Get punished for it.
Again, you have failed to justify in any moment why the game should cover for your mistakes. You just keep saying that it should, supporting it with fallacious arguments and trying to shift the argument to another path (the main point of the argument never was if "killers should only be punished against skilled survivors"), but never explained why.
[...] and the killer being free to tunnel them out because the current anti-tunnel implementation is flawed and only works for the already-skilled severely cuts down how much they can attempt that practice
Again, why? How if even tunneling is being done in so much games (I play 50/50 right now, and I can count with one hand the times I had being tunneled out of a game) it affects negatively the gain of game sense or skill? Wouldn't be the other way, as survivors being tunneled every game would have more chances to practice against it and get better and better at countering it?
No, because in that situation we're self-selecting for killers that are skilled, they're probably not tunnelling anyway and they definitely wouldn't tunnel players who they know are skilled.
First, you are assuming that every killer that tunnels is not a good killer after accusing me of saying that every survivor that goes down is because they are bad. Funny.
Second, again, DS is not an "anti-tunnel" mechanic, starting with the killer inability to even know a suvivor have the perk. It is a second (third? Maybe forth depending on the build) chance perk in the case the killer tunnel you. So, even if it is stronger, it won't stop people from tunneling. So, by your own logic, there is nothing to change here.
The only reason that it worked as a "deterrent" for tunneling was the same one as DH was a "deterrent" for not hitting a survivor the moment you had the chance: Because it was the most used perk present in almost every game, so you would assume that everybody has it.
Third, like I said earlier, there is survivors that weaponize DS by body blocking the killer and forcing him to break chase or lose more time already, knowing that even if the killer tries to grab them they can get away. In fact, you can argue that most of the people that use the perk this days is for the sole reason of weaponizing it.
So, again, funny that you said that and even funnier that it never happened to you taking in count you claim to be a killer main.
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Be realistic, what do you expect the perk to do?
Killer wasted time chasing you, you ds'ed , and forced a second chase (essentially 2nd healthstate). You run 12 meters in 3 seconds, thats enough to reach a tile and begin looping again.
Do you expect ds to make you immune to be hooked unless the killer hooks someone else or lets you reset?
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Well, the stun can be 5 seconds like how it was back in the day? Some time is spent falling off Killer's shoulder anyway so 3 seconds is really pathetic. The conspicuous action and end-game rules should stay just like how it is right now.
Post edited by EQWashu on3 -
I'll try and condense my responses here and number them for clarity.
1: First, you say that people will use DS as a tool to bully the killer. How? Either they're trying to bodyblock with their basekit BT, in which case they get downed and you move on to their unhooker, or they aren't doing that specifically and they're chasing you down without performing any Conspicuous Actions. Both of those are a net positive for the killer, not a negative, so I'm not understanding this argument.
2: There's a couple of things to say about the other tools you're referring to at multiple points here, but the ones that survivors currently have access to largely all revolve around Endurance, which means you can't use them all to try and make sure you're at a tile. If you're not directly adjacent to something to use, and the killer hits you immediately, you often don't have that much to work with- let alone if it's one of the killers that can completely bypass the Endurance effect to begin with. It's a lot better than it used to be, but if it's meant to be a reason not to buff DS that heavily implies it should be enough as it is, and it's not. Tunnelling is still too easy, because all a killer really has to do is either count to ten, or hit a survivor if they don't hear injured sounds, and they're effectively back to square one with no protection.
I would support changing this as well/instead, of course. The post-unhook protection not being Endurance and not putting you in Deep Wounds would be a pretty huge step forward, not least because it could be coded to be more punishing on killer powers that typically bypass the Endurance. It would be one thing if survivors actually had multiple tools they could use, but they don't, they have to choose which ones because they often invalidate each other.
3: I'd thought I had supported my claim that it should help even when survivors make mistakes, but I'll go into more depth here to make sure we're on the same page for what I'm talking about: If a survivor brings an anti-tunnel perk, one of only four slots they can use period, that perk should be stronger than the basekit mechanics- which are largely based around skill expression. If anti-tunnel perks were strong enough to be used (or were harder to immediately invalidate, as OTR currently needs to be), that would deter killers from feeling completely safe to tunnel someone out who isn't super skilled in chase. That would mean less tunnelling, which would be healthier for everyone.
4: To be clear, I never suggested that all killers who tunnel are bad, I said very skilled killers know tunnelling is a niche tool against actually good survivors. It's often not worth it, and will almost always pale in comparison to spreading your pressure instead-- again, assuming a very good killer going against a team of all four very good survivors. You could argue that level of skill isn't fairly representative of the full game, but that's kinda my point: Tunnelling is so impactful and problematic beneath that level, which is a far larger sample size.
5: For your very last comment, of course I've had DS weaponised against me, I've been playing for a while at this point. What I can confidently say, though, is that I never had DS weaponised against me (in a way that wasn't my fault for not paying attention, anyway) since they added the Conspicuous Actions deactivation requirement. There was a period of time where it disabled on those actions but had a 5 second timer, and it was very hard to weaponise in that period. The only reason people run it now is to try (and fail! because it's bad and designed such that it's hard to do that with!) to weaponise it, but that's because it isn't useful for actually being an anti-tunnel deterrent unless you're already in a strong tile when you go down.
TL;DR: DS only does something if you tunnel or if the survivor is throwing, it should be stronger and more forgiving than basekit mechanics because it's a perk, anti-tunnel tools are weak and have anti-synergy with one another, anti-tunnel tools being stronger would deter killers from chasing any survivor immediately post-unhook which gives lesser skilled players more breathing room to improve. It's a net improvement for everyone, save for players who want tunnelling to be an easy shortcut to value.
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3 seconds let's you run 12 meters, thats more than enough to run to a tile and waste the killers time again.
The conspicuous actions are severely lacking in what counts as a conspicuous action.
Bodyblocking/prot hits + flashlight use + pallet needs to count as a conspicuous action. Survivors shouldn't be able to weaponize anti-tunnel features to punish the killer for *not tunneling*.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Should buff its anti tunnel aspects, I personally don’t think buffing its stun duration would help it does need a SLIGHT buff to its stun duration but I think it needs something else, I’m slightly hesitant to buffing the perk cause the unbreakable/DS meta would come back immediately so we need to make the killer not afraid to pick up, so my suggestion
Decisive strike: stun duration 3.5 from 3, after stunning the killer you’re scratch marks and pools of blood are hidden for 10 seconds
this will make the killer have a extremely difficult time to track you since he can’t tunnel you if he doesn’t know where you are or where you’re going and would potentially help get away from the killer
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The whole purpose of a conspicuous action was to ensure that you’re no longer getting tunneled/not in chase with the killer after being unhooked and I don’t see how is dropping pallets and using a flashlight should be considered one? You’re evading the killer when dropping pallets and using flashlights and I don’t rlly think body blocking should also be considered a CA I mean yeah it’s pretty much a survivor consenting to being tunneled but from my pov just hard tunnel them I mean didn’t they ask for it by bodyblocking? And on top of that wouldn’t this technically be abused by some killers? I mean don’t wanna deal with decisive? Just instantly hit the unhooked survivor and the game just rendered it as a protection hit and their DS deactivated
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Original post already explained the point.
Survivors shouldn't be able to weaponize anti tunnel mechanics and perks to punish the killer for not tunneling.
If youre using basekit bt to bodyblock for the unhooker, youre weaponizing the anti tunnel mechanic, then if you get downed again, you pop DS and get outta jail for free.
Flashlight needs to follow the other item rules in that self healing/ repairing a gen counts as a conspicuous action therefore Flashlight use should also count especially considering you have a 60s window where you're able to attempt flashy saves with no real punishment.
Pallets follow the same logic, you're able to get a pallet save with no threat of punishment in a 60s window, at the *very minimum* pallet saves should count as conspicuous and disable anti tunnel perks.
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I think it'd be clearer what you mean if you were to say "getting a save" should be a conspicuous action, which I would actually agree with as a statement.
Clicking the flashlight would be flashlight use, and that should hardly disable your DS or anything. For the other items, it's their associated action - healing and repairing - that counts as a conspicuous action, they disable DS whether the item is in play or not. If you shine your flashlight into the sky, you aren't progressing the game, but if you get a save you definitely are.
Randomly clicking or just like, blinding at a pallet, those shouldn't be conspicuous actions, but saving someone else absolutely should be.
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Yeah, saves 100% should count, no doubt.
My issue is that pallet blinds / clicky flashlight is dictionary definition of "conspicuous" (attracting attention to oneself), even if we don't go by dictionary, we still have the component that you're taking an "offensive action" against the killer.
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I'm not sure I agree, actually. Conspicuous Actions in this context are typically defined as actions that progress the game without directly being in chase - the idea being, if you have the freedom to do these actions, either you aren't being tunnelled to begin with or the killer's nearby and you should be punishable if they notice you.
By that definition, clicking the flashlight and getting blinds at pallets are the opposite, they are actions you can only do in chase. Either you're doing them because the killer already decided to tunnel you, in which case everything's going as it should, or you're doing them because you want to bait the killer into chasing you, in which case the killer can just... ignore you.
Saves should count because you aren't being chased if you're in a position to do them, but if you're getting a blind at a pallet, it pretty heavily implies you're the one that dropped it and the killer is chasing you.
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1.- I already told you. Survivor get unhooked, has DS, he starts body blocking the killer to force him to break chase even when he is away chasing someone else. It's not an uncommon thing, specially when confronting a bully squad.
2.- What are you talking about? I'm not even understanding what you mean here. Eitherway, if you get hit with the free BT in place, you get an speed boost from the hit and from the haste it gives you. Enough to gain a lot of distance. The same with any other haste + endurance combo. And if the killer only have to count to 10 to get you, again, most than probably you did something to make it so easy for him. Also, and again, even the devs said that the anti-tunneling system never was intended to guarantee you to be safe.
3.- You still fail to explain why it should be as you are saying. Because again, they would not deter killers from stopping tunneling because that's not the main function of the perk either way. In any case, it would be back to slugging everybody because killers would assume everyone would be using DS. Super healthy for everyone. And again, you have just ignored everything else I said about the "healthiness" of your claims. Also, by your own logic, just use OTR instead, as you yourself said that is a better second chance perk in case of tunneling.
4.- So, what you are saying is that good survivors are tunneled less because they are good, have game sense, and enough experience and skill to not get downed again so easily? Uh...
5.- If you had DS weaponized against you, then why are you asking "how" survivors weaponize it? I'm confused. And again, it is not and never was intended as a deterrent for tunneling. It is a second chance perk that gives you the opportunity to not get hooked two times in a row, which it does pretty well, and what you do with that free escape chance is on you. So, and again, asking for it to be buffed so it is "the anti-tunneling it has to be" is just an excuse to have it cover your mistakes even more than it already does. People still miss the power trip it was playing survivor in the day and want it back, as the current power trip is not enough as some killers can still do something in the game. Simple as that.
6.- Again, in your TL;DR says that it should be "stronger and forgiving than a basekit perk", but you fail to yet again explain why. You also failed to explain why the game should "give lesser skilled players more breathing room", because as I said, making it even easier for them would means the reverse as there would be no need to develop any game sense at all.
In other words, you claim a lot of things, but fail to give a justification for those claims other than "Because it should be" while ignoring every fact against it.
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