Let's talk about Unsportsmanlike conduct and how it treats players for "killing themselves on hook".

Options
Grigerbest
Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
edited October 2023 in General Discussions

Hi.

As you guys all know about the game rules of DBD (Tho you should check all game rules before playing any game), there is nothing in the game rules about "Survivors DC penalty avoiding" (purposely killing themselves on hook).

You can check here - https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/139-game-rules

It simply states this:

ABOUT DISCONNECTS BANS - DO NOT REPORT

Disconnections are penalized automatically by the disconnection penalty system. Please do not report people for disconnecting; no further action will be taken on these reports.

It's clear that "Killing yourself on hook to prevent the penalty and move on to the next match" should be a part of a Unsportsmanlike conduct, should be reportable, and should end up in a temporary ban if it's done on a regular basis, in terms of "Rage quitting".

Now let's move to the (imo) basic question - why? Or why it should be considered as unsportsmanlike conduct?

If some of you ever played ANY MOBA games like Dota 2, League, Smite, Overwatch 2, etc... You will find the same caterogy, but it might use a different words. Basically - Regular DC's from a match (or rage quitting), Griefing (standing afk, feeding your opponents, Interfering with your teammates game) will result in a temporary ban, which can go longer and longer after relapse.

Why DBD falls in the same category:

Aside from a killer gameplay. Survivor's gameplay unites a Team play or Working as a team. This makes the simple statement about this: By leaving a match (or feeding your opponents and etc), you as a player make the overall expirience from a match worse for other players, that you're playing with. And it should be cought by reporting this player's behaviour.

After recieving enough reports, a player who constantly violating the TOS, should end up in a punishment.

The problem I'm having with all this:

Somehow, "Killing yourself on a hook" is not considered as a reason to report. Imo it should be considered as "Rage quit". It's clear to me that this kind of behaviour is ruining the overall Impression about the game. Especially for newer players.

"I brought this game so If I don't wanna play against a legion, I can freely leave a match" - This is imo, the most ridiculous, selfish and unaware excuse that I sometimes see people bringing in this types of topics, I suppose that never played any MOBA games before, or have no morals and sympathy for any game's matches.

"We have bots now taking over a player, so it should be ok to DC from a match" - As ridiculous as previous one, the game like HotS (Heroes of the Storm), there were the same "bot replacement" but the players were still getting banned for leaving the games. Personally I think the bots are not treating the problem, even for killers. (At least right now)

This behaviour is unacceptable. You can not defend it by any means.

In my opinion, a player can freely leave (DC) from a match only with a few basic reasons:

  1. (Obviously) Playing against or with a cheater, that prevents players from completing a match.
  2. Killer (somehow) blocking in the obstacles 2 last survivors with gates are closed. Holding them hostage.
  3. Bugs and other circumstances that player can not control. (Getting stuck, killer's ability broke or gone and etc...)
  4. Server issues. That makes the match irritating to play without any control of a player. (Everyone in a match having high ping, server disconnects)

In any way, Mod's opinions are more relevant. Since they more educated in a game's TOS. But I still want to read about your opinions on that topic guys, feel free to write from your hearts!❤️

«134

Comments

  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,457
    Options

    I've always been confused by BHVR's stance on this. We have one method of getting out of a match with a built in penalty system, and another method of getting out of the match that is perfectly fine. What's weird is that with the bot replacements the latter "approved" method of leaving a match actually hurts the "team" more.

    Like, I think, most players I'd really like this to be looked at. I don't want players penalized if seven minutes into a match they want to get out (at that point its usually because the game is decided or you actually have something to do away from the computer), but I do if they leave within the first few minutes. I'd like either of the following

    A) Make hook escapes impossible early in the match (the first few minutes or first few hook states) barring perks/anti-camp mechanic.

    B) If BHVR really wants to give option people to leave, give them a free DC button while on the hook so at least a bot stays in the game. Not my preferred choice, but I'd take it.

  • caipt
    caipt Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 401
    edited October 2023
    Options

    Yes you can. Bleeding out all 4 survivors after downing them is just using a game mechanic. No hacks or exploits whatsoever. However the devs have confirmed this is a bannable offense. This doesnt even really effect the outcome of a match, the survivors had already lost. But for some reason hook suicides, which can completely lose a game for the survivors because one wanted out, is not bannable. Either 4 man bleedouts are allowed too, or hook suicides are bannable. it can't be both.

    Edit: Disregard this comment, I could not find a source of the devs saying that and Mandy herself has confirmed it is not a bannable offense.

    Post edited by caipt on
  • caipt
    caipt Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 401
    Options

    They should just remove kobe's and 2nd stage skill checks all together. They dont really add much. Kobe's are inconsistent, relatively rare, frustrating to go against, and only really serve to prolong a match or grant an unearned opportunity to clutch. And struggle skill checks only exist to make an actual difference between 1st and second stage. None of these things are worth the nonsense of hook suicides.

  • caipt
    caipt Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 401
    Options

    After searching, I apologize as I couldnt find the source. So by that logic its probably not bannable but it definitely should be.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
    Options

    While I'm very much in support of better accessibility functions for killers like plague/doctor/dredge/clown etc, the same could be said for things like flashlight blinding and motion sickness (until we get that fov slider) as well. In an ideal world, all of them would be fixed, but the killer specific ones are so intentional they'd require full reworks (or my idea which is to have replacement assets as an option for each killer that causes issues, like muting puke sounds/animations from survivors, make puke rainbow colored like a paintball mode, etc)

    BHVR have been fairly receptive to accessibility concerns, even if it takes them a long time to implement them, and some they just can't really do much about. For what its worth I completely agree with you that there should be a way to not have them hinder your ability to participate, but "going next" kinda screws the other 4 people out of a game. Killers like dredge are always going to have the darkness mechanic, as its part of the killer's core dynamic, but I cant really think of any way of changing it without severely nerfing it.

  • CatnipLove
    CatnipLove Member Posts: 1,006
    Options

    This is why going for the 4% isn't reportable and isn't going anywhere. BHVR isn't going to devote a bunch of resources and money to policing 4% attempts or completely rework hooks and all the perks that interact with them. It's too big of an ask.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,403
    Options

    I mean if i play a game like r6s, cod, and overwatch. Or really any team based game. And feed like my life depends on it. Afk. Or do anything that hampers my team and benefits the other team besides just gettint diffed i guess. I will probably get banned for it. Whether thats appropriate to say me getting hooked once and just deciding to go next and leave my team in a 3v1 at like 4 gens left. Id say it is pretty comparable. But depends on what the devs think i guess.

  • Annso_x
    Annso_x Member Posts: 1,611
    Options

    haha I feel that, I used to die a lot prior to the second phase rework because i apparently seriously lack rythm and couldn't hit space consistently enough

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,157
    edited October 2023
    Options

    The difference is, even the system itself can tell the difference between a missed skill check and an ignored skill check. If i miss a skillcheck, i lose some of my timer, if i completely ignore it twice, i just instantly die regardless of the time left. So the system itself knows if you missed the skillcheck or intentionally did it or not.


    Personally i think the 4% mechanic should go away entirely, and the struggle phase be reworked into something else because both lead to this problem.


    Easier still though, why not just make so if you let yourself die on hook in an obvious intentional way, that you get the same penalty as if you DCed. This would make people stop doing it and screw over their teammates, because they still get the penalty, so if they want out they might as well just DC because they still get the penalty, and they get out sooner and then the team at least gets a bot to replace them.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,403
    Options

    Fair. My thing is dying on hook shouldn't be a mechanic that works like that anyway. Other team games don't give you the option to end your game early because it makes it a wash for the rest of the people. If a survivor can't do these other means like dcing or spamming unhook till their death. They have to do other stuff that actually does break the rules. (Running to the killer. Afking. Purposefully blowing up gens or the like) the self unhook system just lets them screw their team over in a game where a 3v1 just instantly unbalances the match. Sure they are still making the match unbalanced in the other cases. But there you can actually punish them for it. Instead of it being "oh its a blight? Well force myself into second stage and let go. Gl team"

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    Dear Mandy, it's basically means that everyone can freely kill themselves on a first hook, and say: "Oh I just tried to 4% at first, then I kept missing skillchecks, oh sorry guys".

    I mean, this is ridiculous. Is it not? =)

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    I'm guessing that after it will be acknowledged as unbannable offence, you will have 3 out of 4 games with a 1-2 DC's.

    I'd love to see how you gonna have fun in this game after a hard day at work or etc... xD

  • bm33
    bm33 Member Posts: 8,098
    Options

    I have always and will always miss skill checks thanks to my pets. If they want attention they're not taking no for an answer and I can't say no to them anyway. 😂

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,403
    edited October 2023
    Options

    I mean i wish most team games had the same approach as dbd (not really) i wish after dying or getting stomped on point one on like overwatch i can just decide "you know what i don't wanna play" but if i farm i get banned. If i dc i get a penalty. And theres no in game option for me to end my suffering early. So most games just say "suck it up, you qued" if you want a asym example. Theres no way to just sacrifice yourself on there either without feeding the enemy.

  • Alice_pbg
    Alice_pbg Member Posts: 6,556
    Options

    it would be.


    but suiciding on hook should just not be a thing. you leave the game by quitting. life happened? there you go.


    that was the point op made. or the point made slightly below op... not sure..


    and honestly... I don't see the point of suiciding on hook. it might help in those few cases where you want to let you last teammate have a chance at hatch, but probably won't.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,419
    Options

    We can't literally force people to play a game. But we can have harsher punishments for people that frequently ragequit.

    I still think the best solution is to match the frequent ragequitters with each other. This would allow these people to continue playing the game, but they would be matched with like-minded individuals, that also think it's completely fine to ragequit whenever they want.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    Oh come on, I'm sure you will find a difference between purposely killing yourself on a hook from just being bad.

    Yes, I can't force people to play or try, but you know what I can do? Report their bad behaviour and get them banned as it should be, for ruining my games by rage quitting.

    As I was doing in ANY MOBA games, that I suppose you haven't played ever, if you keep conducting such behaviour, and make it look "Ok".

    No offence, just my personal opinion.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,130
    Options

    If you are getting yourself a week on DC penalties then you have issues to sort out on your end. Server issues are not that common and in the past when there was a widespread constant server issue going on, the penalties got disabled.

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
    edited October 2023
    Options

    Semantics. The point they were trying to convey is that punishing quitters is a common practice in online pvp games. You can add other genres to that as well, DBD is an outlier specifically because it doesn't prevent ways of going next and ruining the game in the process (bypassing their own disconnect penalty.) Also note how there is no killer equivalent, barring opening an exit gate once they're powered. Part of why the comparisons make sense is because they affect the team side more than the individual in the asym formula.

  • Foempticol
    Foempticol Member Posts: 232
    edited November 2023
    Options

    I don't have any issues, stop assuming things you don't know

    Post edited by Foempticol on
  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    edited October 2023
    Options

    If a player reach max penalty from DCs, that means only 3 things:

    1. Player have constant server issues.
    2. Constant individual internet issues.
    3. Constant DCs from a matches that they didn't like.

    With server or provider, there is no way you or devs will not fix the issue until you reach that max penalty.

  • Foempticol
    Foempticol Member Posts: 232
    Options

    That's why me and a couple of other people are suggesting they reduce the maximum ban time to 30 minutes

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,130
    Options

    Then there's no reason to want to reduce the max penalty. Anyone getting over an hour penalty has an issue they need to resolved before they commit to playing a multiplayer game.

  • Grigerbest
    Grigerbest Member Posts: 1,334
    Options

    What genre you consider DBD as a whole? Just Asym?

    First of all it's a PVP game simply because one side compete with other on the "Arena".

    It doesn't matter if there is differences in teams or differences in goals.

    In any MOBA PVP games, you will eventually get banned for DCing from your games.

    Doesn't matter what side you playing Killer or Survivor - it's not ok to feel free to leave (rage quitt or DC) from a match whenever you please.

  • Crowman
    Crowman Member Posts: 9,130
    Options

    I see no reason why it can't. If you are having constant issues, figure them out. Don't ruin games for other people, because you don't want to fix your own issues.

    No reasonable person is hitting over an hour with the current system since the first few disconnects are all under 15 minutes.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,685
    Options

    I wouldn't be against giving Killers a way out. Killer bot system would be preferred, but that's probably too much work.

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
    Options

    It’s not an argument of semantics as none of those games are even in the same category (assymetrical) as DBD. Is there another game where one player (killer) can unilaterally decide if another player (survivor) gets to play the game at all?

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,157
    Options

    All of those games LITERALLY punish people for throwing all the time in ranked modes.