Skull Merchant needs more bandages, BHVR...

Options
mikewelk
mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
edited November 2023 in Feedback and Suggestions

I just wanted to start this off by asking the people reading to not assume anything about who I main or my skill, they have little to no influence on this.

Skull Merchant is a 4.6 m/s killer. This makes her among the fastest killers in the game. What makes her even faster is the passive haste effect:

  • 1 trackable Survivor equals +3 %
  • 2 trackable Survivors equal +5 %
  • 3 trackable Survivors equal +6 %
  • 4 trackable Survivors equal +7 %

Although it's difficult to get 3-4 trackable survivors even in solo queue, it is important to note that even 3% makes a huge difference, exactly like what MfT did. Let's not forget how annoying that perk was to face. This effect is easily achieveable, you just have to force a survivor to get scanned multiple times at a loop with the threat of an M1 attack. The laser cone covers a 10m distance, basically engulfing most loops and making survivors face a tough decision to either continue on with the loop, or run to the next one.


Here's the problem with being able to shut down most loops. She is a 4.6 m/s killer that has probably already developed some haste, before she begins to shut down the loop. This makes it almost impossible to evade a hit in order to run to the next loop unless there's a loop close by or you manage to make them miss badly which is very difficult. This cycle just repeats because there is nothing you can do.


Let's say you wanted to stay at a strong loop as you are in a dead-zone or you're confident. You might get some looping in but it would probably end up being a better option to just W key. Here's why:

SPECIAL EFFECT: LOCK ON

The Lock On Meter receives +1 Stack whenever a Survivor is scanned by a Drone scan line or fails to Hack it.

After 3 Stacks, the Survivor is fully Locked On and experiences the following effects:

  • Receives a Claw Trap.
  • Changes their Health State:

Enters the Injured State when previously Healthy.

SPECIAL TRAP: CLAW TRAP

The Claw Trap continuously broadcasts its Survivor's position to the Radar.

The Claw Trap has a Battery Life of 45 seconds, after which it is automatically destroyed.

Whenever a Survivor wearing a Claw Trap is scanned by a Drone, the following effects apply:

The broken effect doesn't really do much since you'll most likely get downed in chase anyway. The deep wound is very irritating on console to experience. I remember having to close my blinds whenever I played the game because some maps were always dark and the deep wound was always a pain, it severely impacted my looping half the time. Now that I'm on PC and invested in a brighter monitor, it doesn't cause too much trouble. It's not a problem for her ability, but I'm just asking for quality of life changes for consoles. Killer instinct only really helps to find people in general, not in chase, so I won't focus on it. The radar ability also isn't a problem, it only makes sense since there are trackers involved.


The most significant impact is that you can get a health state taken off for participating in a core mechanic of the game - looping. Sure, the killer needs a strong ability but this doesn't take any thought to achieve. There's no skill to it. Just deploy drones until they scan a survivor enough times to injure them and then follow up with bloodlust/haste. If I'm wrong, please argue with me about it respectfully.


The last effect mentioned here is hindered. 10% hindered is obscene. If you didn't know, Wesker can only hinder you by 8% when you are critically infected. In order to even get hindered by Wesker, he needs to land a viruelent bound which can be undeniably difficult with experienced survivors. Then, you need to wait a while (I don't know the exact timings) to even get the survivor critically infected. It just doesn't make sense for a killer to have such a effect that gets activated because you're stuck at a loop due to a simple key press to activate M2. 10% hindered is a death sentence, you might as well just stand still and save yourself the effort.


SPECIAL ABILITY: DEPLOYING DRONES

Press the Power button to deploy a Drone in Stealth Mode, which conducts an invisible, continuous sweeping scan of its surrounding area.

This isn't anything too crazy but you have to understand how all these effects combined are making this killer unbearable to face. Let's say you're injured and stuck at a loop with a high wall. The killer has 5% haste from your tracker and some random survivor's tracker. Suddenly the red cone of vision dissapears and silence ensues. Welcome to the hook. The killer surprise attacks you at a generator with undetectable, haste, and STBFL. Welcome to the hook. You get the idea.


In case people have forgotten, this is what bloodlust does.

  • In Tier 1 – Gain a +0.2 m/s speed bonus after a chase of 15 seconds.
  • With Tier 2 – Gain a +0.4 m/s speed bonus after a chase of 30 seconds.
  • For Tier 3 – Gain a +0.6 m/s speed bonus after a chase of 45 seconds

In this case, a tier one Skull Merchant is 4.8 m/s (120%), a tier two is 5.0 m/s (125 %), and a tier three is 5.2 m/s (130%). W keying is not an effective counter and yet it's the only one.


The worst problem here is how easy the lock on meter is to get filled. Sure there's counterplay I guess. Just be stationary or crouch mid-chase! Why did I not think of that when writing this! Well, I hope people understand why without having to explain. It's a great feature for people not getting chased, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't compensate the survivor that's getting chased. Everyone has probably noticed how fast survivors go down against a experienced Skull Merchant.


This is literally how all the games go: survivor runs to loop, killer presses M2, survivor runs to next loop and gets injured in the process (M1), killer presses M2, welcome to the hook. Or it goes like this: survivor runs to loop, killer presses M2, survivor gets injured by the drone and hindered, welcome to the hook. It was frighteningly similar before the rework, but instead of getting injured from the drones, you actually got exposed.


Skull Merchant is just a mess. Her drones make the map look like a mess, she has a mess of status effects to aid her, and her whole ability is just a mess.


In all of my games versing her, there is at least one DC. People can whine it's a skill issue all day long, but this doesn't happen against any other killer. Nurse and Blight might get their fair share but this is next level. It only proves that most people hate facing her, even with the three-gen Chess Merchant situation over. She is a flawed killer in every aspect and I myself would like her deleted out of the game. I have said that her ability cannot be balanced in a game like DBD and I stand correct. I would be fine with any other adjustments as well (such as the lock on needing one more token) but it is getting to the point where it just looks silly asking for another rework.


I only decided to write this now because I thought I was just unlucky enough to go against really good Skull Merchant mains, but soon realized this status was easy to achieve. This discussion isn't as a result of a couple bad games against her. It would be hard to do since I face her almost 1 in 4 games due to the seemingly random uprising of people playing her. I don't blame them, it's easy 4Ks at the end of the day.

Post edited by mikewelk on
«13

Comments

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    edited November 2023
    Options

    I'm only being honest about how I see things. Am I calling for her to be deleted? Not at all. An opinion doesn't invalidate an argument, you tend to put forth your opinion often. Just because she is weaker doesn't mean the problems dissapear. Call this whatever you want but its all factual. You can argue about it or you can simply rely on the whole idea of her being weaker as your argument eventhough it doesn't address any issues listed.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Also why are we comparing the old and the new. They are quiite different in some cases. Sure, they did get weaker in some areas, but they got buffed in different areas. New issues came about due to the camping being solved. If they made Skull Merchant games cause all survivors to spawn on hook, would you argue that solving camping justifies it?

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Am I calling for her to be deleted? Not at all. 

    She is a flawed killer in every aspect and I myself would like her deleted out of the game.

    Oh, right...

    Just because she is weaker doesn't mean the problems dissapear.

    What specific problems? You have to leave loop when she uses her power? That's what you don't like?

    • Trapper
    • Artist
    • Dredge
    • Singularity
    • Knight

    I could probably claim same thing about even more killers, but good enough.

    Only fact is you don't enjoy playing against her. That doesn't mean she has problems.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    they got buffed in different areas

    What other than stealth got better?

     New issues came about due to the camping being solved.

    What issues?

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Literally read my discussion before commenting. The problem is that there's no counterplay, unless you can name any. All the killers you listed have counterplay which is the funniest part.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Again, read the discussion instead of seeing the words 'Skull Merchant' and replying with questions I've already answered.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    So crouching to ignore her drones completely is not good enough counterplay.

    So disarming her drone without any downside is not good enoughc counterplay.

     All the killers you listed have counterplay which is the funniest part.

    So above is not counterplay, then tell me. What counterplay does Knight, or Artist have?



    Let's get more quotes from your post, sounds fun.

     you can get a health state taken off for participating in a core mechanic of the game - looping. Sure, the killer needs a strong ability but this doesn't take any thought to achieve. There's no skill to it.

    So wanna talk about Trapper? When you get downed...


    Btw all the time you talk about deploying drones in chase, which means she doesn't have bloodlust, so kinda doesn't make sense that whole table of stacking her power with bloodlust...


    10% hindered is obscene. 

    Can we remove that and give her pallet breaking again? Wouldn't mind...


    The killer has bloodlust and 3% haste from your tracker.

    Unless she deployed drone before chase and you run into it, she doesn't...


    So again what other than stealth got better? Shouldn't be hard to make a list, like I did for you...

    Everything except her stealth is worse. Whatever you try to bring, there is bigger nerf next to it.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,037
    Options

    There's a couple things wrong with this post, that I noticed. I've not got much experience with new Skull Merchant, but there's some critical flaws in your reasoning here.

    First, there are a few instances of trying to claim that a survivor has to deal with Bloodlust, the Haste from her power, and her Undetectable, but those things don't stack. If she's using her power, she doesn't have Bloodlust, and if the power's already set down it still takes fifteen seconds to reach even tier one of Bloodlust. For the kind of argument you're making, Bloodlust should be somewhat irrelevant; if the SM is using her power mid-loop, she cannot have Bloodlust.

    Second, you make the claim that 10% Hindered is an obscene thing for someone who also gains Haste to have access to, but Clown has a much more easily applied 15% Hindered with much easier to apply Haste to boot, and it's clearly not a problem on him. You talk about Wesker, but his 8% Hindered is both not the strongest part of his kit, and a penalty for not taking care of his status effect, it's not something that's actually meant to help in the average chase with him- that's what Virulent Bound is for. Skull Merchant and Clown, though, primarily use that Hindered, as far as I can tell for SM anyway.

    Third, I'm not sure why you're claiming a survivor leaving the loop is necessarily going to lose a health state every time they try to. That isn't the case for the other killers that force survivors to leave the loop, and I don't see why it would be for SM.

    Fourth and finally, when you say that Skull Merchant gets tons of DCs and that's a clear indicator something's wrong, you have to understand that people are not approaching Skull Merchant neutrally. They are approaching Skull Merchant as a killer that has been widely hated for both legitimate and illegitimate reasons since she came out- in some people's cases, since her trailer dropped. She is a loathed killer for reasons that often border on irrational, and that is why she gets DCs at such a higher rate than other killers.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    If she's using her power, she doesn't have Bloodlust

    While author is mostly wrong about this just from way how it is described, it can happen.

    Basically when other survivors trigger your already deployed drones (that should never happen, but it does), or when you run into while in chase (it can happen), then she would get both effects.

    But that means Skull merchant did her setup before chasing and survivors didn't disarm any of her drones.

    I have quite a lot of games on her and it's not regular situation.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,037
    Options

    Yeah, I think I didn't convey that well enough- I was attempting to call attention to how that can happen, but not when the Skull Merchant is applying her drone mid-chase the way OP describes.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options
  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    See this is what I wanted, an actual argument. Thank you.

    Does bloodlust replace the haste or does haste replace bloodlust?


    For Clown, his ability is just potions that hinder 15%. The range is smaller than the drone and he only has four bottles. This is why pre-dropping is such a good counter for him. The potions don't injure survivors or force them to get hit a lot unless he accompanies those potions with mind-games, made far more effective due to the blurry screen. That takes certain skills to get higher MMR survivors in a bad place. If he even wants haste from the bottles, he has to swap them and that takes a while. He cannot just press m2 at a loop and have the entire thing covered with his potion. Also, his gen pressure is pretty bad. Skull Merchant's drones just being there provide a lot as survivors need to crouch over there or disable them. I understand Skull Merchant needing the hindered but I was thinking more alongside the lines of 7% maximum. When it comes to Wesker, you cannot take care of his status effect when you're in chase, hence why I mentioned it.


    Survivors can very rarely be forced to leave a loop. It might be ideal, but they aren't at risk of going down at the same loop so they just stay and get hit because they can juice it out. If you stay at a loop with Skull Merchant, it is a death sentence. What killers are you trying to mention here?


    I don't really believe the last point is true. Most people DC'd to Nurse and Blight for several reasons, among them being the add-ons and how good some people were with Nurse. I understand its not always that, but it is a main reason.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    This entire discussion has a focus on a survivor being CHASED by the Skull Merchant. Not in general, just chase. Please just read.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    You are good at avoiding answers, mainly because you don't have them...


    I have listed two counter plays, tell me why they are not a counterplay.

    You said all killers I listed has counterplay, tell me what counterplay Artist and Knight have.

    I have listed 5 aspects that got worse, it's actually 6 (slowdown), you said other aspects got buffed, tell me what improved for her.


    I like we established you are completely wrong about bloodlust. It's simple, when killer use power, they lose bloodlust. That's it.


    You said those things, so back it up. Not really difficult if you are not wrong.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    edited November 2023
    Options

    I wanted counterplays you can use whilst in chase. Couldn't have made it any clearer with the context of the discussion. Until you provide those, I won't waste my time.

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,037
    Options

    The two things are separate- it's using your power that deactivates Bloodlust, and you don't get the Haste from setting down a drone straight away. I'm reasonably certain the new drones still have a slight activation period, and then the survivor has to be scanned by the rotating beam, so there's definitely a fairly noticeable window where the Skull Merchant has no extra speed at all if she's playing this way. If she's using Bloodlust, she can't be using her power, that's how it works for pretty much every killer- I think there's some who can do the readying/aiming portion of their power without losing Bloodlust, but the specifics escape me at the moment.

    For Clown, sure, but that's not the argument that was being made initially. All you're really describing is why Skull Merchant would be better in chase than Clown, which isn't that unbelievable since he's on the weaker side. It doesn't demonstrate this being a problem at all, since setting the drone down at a loop only begins the dance around the beams, it doesn't automatically hinder the way it used to (with the purple hindering addon, that is). If counterplay is the concern, sure, Clown can't coat the entire loop in gas... because he just hits you with it. Dodging a Clown, especially at close range, is very difficult, so the counterplay lays elsewhere.

    For leaving the loop, I'm thinking specifically of Artist and Knight, the two other killers who survivors tend to dislike because the counterplay to them using this strat is to just run away. When you do that, the killer isn't going to hit you straight away unless you run past them, which you probably don't need to do. It'd be the same flow for Skull Merchant: She sets a drone down at a loop -> you run in the opposite direction towards another loop during the animation -> rinse and repeat. It's kinda boring, but it doesn't force you to get hit, so your rundown of the situation is missing a very crucial explanation: How does the survivor get hit when they run away after the Skull Merchant hits M2?

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Yeah, so you just can't back it up, I see...

    counterplays you can use whilst in chase

    I forgot it's not possible to crouch in a chase, right? Oh wait, it is.

    You can check how to play against her in this video. It's from PBT, but still works. I even put it with a timestamp for you...


    I like how before you said "pre-dropping is such a good counter", when it's true about skull merchant too.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    I've edited my post about the bloodlust, thanks for the insight. Genuinely didn't know and don't want to spread false news.


    The problem is that her ability can hinder and injure whilst also covering a larger range. Clown is deadly up close, you're definitely correct on that, especially with that iri add-on, but even that comes with -3 bottles. It's annoying when they have the aim of a God but just throwing bottles feels really stiff half the time.


    Knight is quite a pain, I have to admit. There's that glitch where if you pre-drop a pallet, the guards go towards it instead of you so it's the only counter currently I can think of. Artist's counter is like Dredges, you just bait running into the crow so that they release it or just run into it and hope for the best. Artists also prefer to hit you and then finish you off with the crow if they can because it's more efficient as they might halter at the sight of the crow and, therefore, lose that speed boost from getting hit. When it comes to Skull Merchant, they tend to go in the middle of the loop so both escape points are gone and then place the drone, which leaves you with only mind-games in order to escape the loop. You can always hold W but you'll always eventually end up at a loop as they've caught up with you, if you kow what I mean.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Yes, let me waste a perk slot on Nea's crouching perk and pray I have enough pallets to slow down the Skull Merchant and then get shouted at by my team as there are no pallets remaining.


    Pre-dropping is not a counter to SM. Believe it or not, Skull Merchant gets her ability from people staying at loops, if you pre-drop and run away, why would she bother wasting time and breaking the pallet if she can go around? Her ability doesn't dissapear like Clown's bottles.

  • adsads123123123123
    adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 870
    edited November 2023
    Options

    3-5% isn't much for killer. The main difference is that survivors are 1/4 of the team while killer is 100% of the team. Killers are meant to be about x4 stronger than survivors.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options
  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Her chase potential got buffed. The whole reason the three gen situation happened was mainly because people just had that gen pressure to rely on to win. Now that the gen pressure is gone, surely all the Skull Merchant players have left as well, right? No, because her chase got buffed thanks to the rework. How bizzare, right?

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    why would she bother wasting time and breaking the pallet if she can go around?

    Oh right, because every pallet in dbd is unsafe. Clown can do it in exactly same way, except he can catch up faster, his speed boost is not tied to survivor's actions.

    let me waste a perk slot on Nea's crouching perk

    I have never said you need it.

    Her ability doesn't dissapear like Clown's bottles.

    She doesn't have infinite of them, so she will most likely recall if she wants to use them in chase. You can also disarm them.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Her ability makes them unsafe. The drones cover almost the entire loop, safe or not. I'm not going to risk getting injured by the drone because the pallet WAS safe.


    The video did. If you don't have the perk, the crouching would never work. You'd lose a ton of distance.


    You can't disarm them during chase, aka what this discussion is about. She has enough to last the chase. If she needs to recall some, she can.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Her chase is not better. You didn't list any changes why it should be the case.

    So what changes about her chase:

    • she has less movement speed overall -> easier to trigger 1 stack in chase, but harder to get on 2/3 stacks -> 4 stacks near impossible
    • pallet breaking is gone, that was basically her main chase ending thing
    • exposed status effect is gone, got replace with broken status effect, which gives movement speed -> worse
    • there is hindered, which requires total of 4 scans, when there is immunity  for 3 second after each scan -> it's quite rare to happen and is equivalent of bloodlust 3 -> end chase, but not worth the time
  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Are you trying to balance her for 1v1? That simply doesn't make any sense.

    Those lasers can't go through walls, so predropped pallet often shuts down whole loop (except some open loops on autohaven etc) and you can easily stand in check spot.

    You can't disarm them, you team can when they are not in chase. She needs to use her drones on whole map, not just on chase. You seem to forgot this is team game. Killers are balanced around that, not just 1v1.

    If you want to talk about just 1v1 and ignore anything else, how the hell you want to even compare her with Knight, or Deathslinger? She is way worse, it's not even close.

    Just how is she a problem, when there are other killers who habe aspects you hate and they are even better at it?

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    just run into it and hope for the best

    Skull merchant has exactly same counterplay :D

    btw that glitch with knight works only if knight doesn't know about it.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Her drones can injure AND hinder survivors for a easy follow-up hit that you can predict very easily by the beam's placement and the HUD (for tracker progress), she gets undetectable which allows stealthy maneuvers out of seemingly no where, the undetectable helps with mind-games, etc. I'm too tired right now to provide an entire list but these are ones you cannot even deny are buffs.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    I'm not. I really don't know what you're getting at. Loops on DBD do not involve much high walls in certain maps and those are usually the ones that Skull Merchants give as offerings.


    Most of the playerbase are solo queue. You cannot expect them to do much, let alone that.


    Sure she needs drones elsewhere, that's why they place drones beforehand and leave two spare for chases. Believe it or not, taking chase is like a 1v1 for a brief moment. That's why Skull Merchants don't place drones in the randomest locations. They need you on the hook fast so they can deal with the other three.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Her drones can injure you, if you let them. It's nothing she can really force. It give you speed boost, unlike Plague.

    It's way worse than exposed she used to have. You could not afford to stay there, not even on different floor. You simply had to leave, otherwise you are dead. It's not the case with current drone, you can play around it.

    So it is still worse than used to be...

    As I said only thing that improved is her stealth, which is map dependant thing.


    Most of the playerbase are solo queue. You cannot expect them to do much, let alone that.

    So what? No killer should be balanced around soloQ. You think Skull merchant is bad for soloQ? Pinhead might want to talk about that. That topic would be how to improve soloQ, not nerf the killer you don't like...


    I'm not. I really don't know what you're getting at.

    You can't disarm them during chase, aka what this discussion is about.

    You keep talking while your post is about chase and how it is not fun for you. Well, dbd is not 1v1. It's not just chase. It also doesn't have to be enjoyable for you.

    Fact is she is not able to down you under 30 seconds like some other killers with better 1v1, unless you screwed it. You just don't like to leave the loop. That's your only argument, which is not really valid when I can say exactly same thing about many other killers.

    You just don't like skull merchant. That's it.

  • UndeddJester
    UndeddJester Member Posts: 2,251
    Options

    I want to preface by saying I actually do like Skull Merchant personally.

    I do however feel the combined effect of Hindered and Haste is a bit too much, and makes SMs kit feel cluttered, as if effects were stapled on until she finally became strong... and unfortunately haste is an easy way to make something powerful.

    Being scanned by a drone while claw trapped needs something for it to be meaningful, but 10% Hindered is a pretty gross feeling to be hit by, an when it hits in conjunction with a minimum of a 3% haste boost to Skull Merchant, its a near guaranteed 13% swing, and that is pretty awful to be hit by, whether it was genuinely earned or not.

    Not sure what could be done instead really that would be a worthwhile punishment for running into drone though that doesn't feel incredibly cheap. Maybe just SM gets an additonal 5% boost, so at least it is SM catching the survivor instead it breaking their ankles?

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Because Clown doesn't have that many potions and the broken potions dissapear after a couple of seconds unlike Skull Merchant's ability where the drones stay there until diabled/recalled. They also cover a way smaller range that doesn't engulf entire loops and cannot injure survivors/put them in deep wound.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    sure, wouldn't mind to zoom more.

    Issue is there needs to be something so survivors can't completely ignore her drones while injured.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    Plague and Skull Merchant are completely different. Let's not go down that alley. With the exposed she did have, you would just W key away unless you were injured because it wouldn't affect you. Now it doesn't matter whether you're injured or not, the drones will have an effect on you.


    Does undetectable not work on certain maps? You might want to report that in the bug section.


    Every killer is balanced around solo queue. If they were balanced around the top 1% SWF, no one would play the game. That's just the truth. Pinhead isn't that crazy to face on solo queue, yes it is boring but I like facing him. I think everyone most would agree that Pinhead is a better killer to face than Skull Merchant.


    The main element of DBD is the chasing. It puts you in a 1v1 scenario vs the killer and its where skill and mindgames come into play. That's not possible with Skull Merchant because there is no skill involved. It makes the most fun part of DBD boring, unless doing generators excites you more. The game also doesn't have to be enjoyable for you so don't come at me with such a remark.


    Also. congrats on assuming my skill and playstyle, was waiting for it. I do leave loops because I know how to waste time with her, my solo queue team doesn't. It's not my only argument, it's just the only part of the discussion you read. Remember when you told me those two counterplays? Those were alreaady mentioned in my discussion. You didn't read it at all, only what you liked.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    you would just W key away unless you were injured because it wouldn't affect you

    suddely it's just W key away... I thought that's your whole issue

    Does undetectable not work on certain maps? 

    No, it doesn't work well on open maps. So what I don't have TR when they can see me... effectivness changes a lot based on specific map

    Every killer is balanced around solo queue.

    and when did you get that idea? What changes made you think this game is balanced around soloQ? Sadako rework seems soloQ friendly to you?

    That's not possible with Skull Merchant because there is no skill involved.

    Her chase is not really that strong anymore, she would not get even into top 5 for 1v1 killers.

    I have played mainly chase merchant before her nerfs, you know why it was way better? Totems. Blood warden, or devour hope gave survivors no chance. Well guess what, she can't defend totems at all now. That was nerfed into the ground -> another thing that got way worse.

    It's not really hard to get long chase against her. She is still just M1 killer, her hindred takes forever to get, unless you tagged survivor multiple times before you commit to the chase.

    She can't bypass pallets, she can't get over windows. All those resources work against her.


    you told me those two counterplays? Those were alreaady mentioned in my discussion. You didn't read it at all, only what you liked.

    Really? You ask the question -> I answer. Then you complain it's something you knew? It's not my fault you don't like the answer :D

    Of course I read your whole post, but you should just ask correct questions.


    congrats on assuming my skill and playstyle, was waiting for it

    When exactly did I say that?

    30 seconds is generic, you shouldn't get down faster than that against most killers. That works for everyone.

    You don't like to leave loop? Well, you said it multiple times. Not really assuming...

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    I'll just leave this here. If she's so perfect as you make her out to be, explain this. Most unfun killer to face, the second worst being Knight at 54% always boring.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,719
    Options

    Every killer is balanced around solo queue. If they were balanced around the top 1% SWF, no one would play the game.

    killer should be balanced around top 1%. if the top 1% can escape skull merchant than you can escape skull merchant because if your a lower % player, you will not face top % skull merchant player. for example, if your 90% player, you will face 90% skull merchant players which makes mistakes. this is refer to as trickle down balance.

    Also. congrats on assuming my skill and playstyle, was waiting for it. I do leave loops because I know how to waste time with her, my solo queue team doesn't. It's not my only argument, it's just the only part of the discussion you read.

    The game is balanced around 4vs1. if your team is no good and plays poorly, it is not killer fault. The killer is just capitalize off weak-links. you only deserve escape if your teammate also play well.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    So what? You think this change anything?

    Boring is not a major issue that should lead to nerfs. It can lead to rework, but not really straight nerfs.

    • It's not hard to win against her
    • She can't lock you in game for 1 hour


    Most if it is still after effect from her previous version anyway.


    It's simple, do you have any solution how to make her fun for you while still keep her viable?

    I haven't seen any suggestion how to change her except you wish to delete her...

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    edited November 2023
    Options

    If they were balanced around top 1%, tournaments wouldn't exist. Killers would win each, and every, time. They are balanced around solo queue as the killer needs a optimal 60% kill-rate which solo queue provides. This is common sense, clearly not here.


    The game is balanced around 4v1, yeah. My solo queue games are fine against other killers, yet not with her. Even the better players struggle against her.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Never heard term "trickle down balance" before, but it was interesting to look into it. Thanks for that.

  • mikewelk
    mikewelk Member Posts: 1,669
    Options

    You haven't asked for any. Funnily enough I mentioned a change with the lock on meter requiring an extra token but that went over your head. It is hard to win against her, unless you have a SWF then that's another story.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Yeah, I mainly talk about SWF, because that's what you should balance around in my opinion.

    If SWF can do it, then you should ask how to improve soloQ in away that it can also win more reliably.

    Solution is not to nerf any killer you don't like to face as soloQ.


    requiring an extra token

    That doesn't fix any of your chase issues, It also doesn't make it more fun in any way. It just makes her power worse.

    How is that good change exactly?

    But sure, we can make it require 1 more token, but display number of tokens each survivor has so Skull merchant can play around it.


    You haven't asked for any. 

    I have asked so many questions to be ignored. You even denied to want her deleted at start...

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    tournaments wouldn't exist

    tournaments exist because they limit perks/items/addons and sometimes killers on both sides. It's rare to see norule tournament and even there they manage to be around 60%, which sounds like it is balanced around them...

    if it was around soloQ, then killers would get absolutely destroyed against tournament squads. Well, many killers do... but that's usually issue with whole power of that killer, not really balancing.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 6,719
    Options

    BVHR has never revealed kill-rate of skull merchant. I don't get where you get any of stats because there are no official stats for skull merchant. the only official stats were last september 2022 when Wesker was released.

    The game is balanced around 4v1, yeah. My solo queue games are fine against other killers, yet not with her. Even the better players struggle against her.

    My soloq teammates struggle vs blight. Does that mean that blight deserves nerf? no, because in tournaments, blight performs perfectly fine. It is same for skull merchant.

    It just means that something that is balanced for top 1% is also balanced for top 90%, top 70%, top 50% because the player with lower level are worse players playing vs worse players that are not playing to the highest potencial.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Dota use same logic, but I don't think it can be applied for DBD in same way.

    Issue is worse you are, easier it is for killers, but with more experience except few killers it shifts towards survivors.

    This balancing logic doesn't work that well for assymetric games.

    I would still balance around better players, but probably not tournament level.

  • gnehehe
    gnehehe Member Posts: 510
    Options

    Skull Merchant needs .... a second complete rework from scratch 😏

  • okaayletsgoo
    okaayletsgoo Member Posts: 146
    Options

    Her speed bonuses + hindered makes her impossible to play against. The fact she can keep pace with a lithe or sprint burst just from the drone scan haste alone is ridiculous. She really doesn't have counter play other than hold W but that doesn't get you far for long against her. If she had one or the other haste or hindered from scans it would feel less ridiculous to go against. Both is way too much imo from playing against her a lot.


    My only other change is the 8 seconds of undetectable she gets per trap. That combined with her add-ons that increase the duration and haste make her impossible to see coming in anything other. I truly don't see how she can have so much going for her just by preswing 1 button.

    My suggestion would be a survivor can only gain one claw trap PER trap. To gain another trap they would have to run through a different trap scan. Undetectable duration is 4 seconds and add-ons can increase this.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,069
    Options

    Damn, you really want her useless.


    If you get tagged by her drone with Sprint burts, something is wrong with your pathing...