The Trickster Feedback

I would like to see more add-ons that give severe bleeding, undetectability, inability to take action, and fatigue, rather than add-ons related to the main event.

I think so too.

New Trickster Feels so so much better!

The one Issue I think would benefit everybody though is to just make Memento blades Base kit. At this point it's a nice add on too have, but yeah it feels like a must have sometimes and limits variety of using other add-ons. If it were removed entirely with no compensation I think Trickster would fall apart honestly. Throwing so slow with 8 knife hits really makes him not just feel worse to play, but a lot more stressful just desperately trying to get those last knife hits in. (However I also think it needs to remain 8 knife hits so it's at least more fun as survivor. I can say from experience it is a lot more fun as survivor, It's super intense!)

I think the only add ons that really need changes are the Fizz Spin and Autograph. They are kind of useless as they are now.

As for the Ammo amount, it was pretty sad to see the increase to 8 knives with no ammo increase, so maybe just make it 50 knives instead of 60? And slightly buff the add ons that give more knives, so like the brown one can be 8 knives and the boa can be 12-14! I think the brown being 8 is only fair since it's only 1 health state AND only if you hit all 8.

I think this patch is successful. And I think 7.4.2 patch is successful patch.

But I concerned about using Memento Blades add-on. When using this add-on, the base time between throwing blades is decreased to 0.27. This means The Trickster throws his blades 4 blades per 1sec.

And considering direction of 7.4.0, The Trickster is too much strong about throwing his blades with base time between throwing his blades is 0.27 so DBD team nerfed his throwing speed. So I suggest Keeping the base time between his throwing blades 0.3 while Memento Blades add-on nerf.

And I still complain about his Add-ons must be reworked.

So I suggest Add-on adjust suggestion. And I'm sure this suggestion will make The Trickster's more funny factors and his ability is more tricky. And I'm sure that users no longer rely on Memento Blades add-on.

• Death Thores Compilation: When The Trickster hits survivors by his blades, survivors get Hindered status effect during Laceration meter. Survivors get Hindered status effect per 1 charges by 3%. After main-event, The Trickster's blades are automatically recharged.(rework)
• Iridescent Photocard: When Laceration meter is fulled, survivors get Exposed status effect.(revert before 7.4.0)
• Waiting For You Watch: Survivors get Exhausted status effect during main-event when they get Laceration meter.(rework)
• Fizz-spin Soda: Requirement of blades to activate main-event is decreased 1 blades.(rework)
• Ji-Woon's Autograph: During main-event, The Trickster's movement speed is increased 0.15m/s.
• Cut Thru U Single: When The Trickster damaged survivors by Blades, Survivors are get Burned status effect. ※Burned: Survivors' acting speed is decreased by 5% while they are damaged. If survivors complete healing, Burned status effect is removed.(rework)
• Memento Blades: Increased throwing speed by 6%.(nerf)
• Lucky Blade: Throwing rate of main-event is increased by 11%.(rework)

So I've played current Trickster quite a bit now, and feel like I can give a proper opinion.

I'll start off by saying that, balance-wise, I genuinely think he didn't change that much. I'd say he's probably a little better than he was before the chaos happened. (So pre-PTB) His minor nerfs at this point are probably less bad than the few buffs he got, but it just feels like his power simply shifted from being an M2 killer to using Main Event as much as possible. Which really is mostly different instead of a huge buff.

However, the main issues that you wanted to resolve IMO both still remain. A long loop with a tall wall and a singular pallet is pretty much his downfall if the survivor knows what they're doing. At the same time, being caught in a bad position a single moment as a surv is simply a guaranteed down if the Trickster is good enough. Now it's for you guys to decide if this is a big issue or not, but I personally think this is an unavoidable part of his power unless he gets an actual rework which I think most Trickster mains really wouldn't want.

Then about fun for both sides; He's fun to play again. He was terrible to play for a while but this version is, at the very least, fun. With proper use of Main Event, it can help him a bit against these tall loops which can catch a surv off guard so that's quite nice. He's really similar to play against, though. Frustrating on some maps, fun on other maps. It's sadly just a bit lame that M1 is so much more viable now bcuz of the 115% that if the Trickster is just not good with bladse, they just resort to getting the Bloodlust down but I guess this is also just unavoidable.

In the end, I still prefer old(Pre-PTB) Trickster. But he's fine now I guess. One thing that everyone does say though is that blade speed addons (Memento blades atm) are just going to be a waste to create. Blade speed is simply going to be the best to use no matter what. I hope you will consider making Memento Blades main kit, and not making any blade speed addons. Or just consider still reverting him to how he was. X3

I disagree with this. Trickster is by far in the best spot he has ever been. They did an amazing job with him. It's intense in chase as survivor, and still a lot of fun as killer.

Okay so after reviewing the add ons some more I think besides making Memento Blades Base kit, there should be some changes to the aura reading add ons.

Similar to Chucky I think they should be green tier at most. Like the Cufflinks add on that shows their aura, it's a nice add on, but definitely a little to expensive. As for the Death Throes Addon perhaps make it so you can hold onto main event indefinitely, and Iri photocard makes you move faster during main event. I think having the iris focused on more useful effects for main event is better.

As for Fizz Spin and AutoGraph, I am unsure what could be done with these.

The speed add ons such as the shoes are probably the worst add ons on trickster period. I think the only way they could be good is if they were buffed to a higher movement speed.

No, u didnt.

Trickster feels better, but we want more throw speed or less Laceration.

Cuz without memento blades its plays like, cutten version of trickster.

I m sure u make a change for his addons that will be great, and fix his power in a good way.

Considering I just noticed this-

If Memento Blades are base-kit and no blade speed addons get added, we get more variety. I used to always run Trick Blades but I don't have addon space for it rn due to Memento, and Waiting-on-you watch just being way too good to pass out on. Combo Addons also suck btw.

If you make him 6 knives or up his ammo capacity, I think it's unfair on the survs. I'm really of the opinion that if you cannot get the down with his current ammo, the surv simply outplayed you and I think that should be allowed.

Well if you need Trickster feedback in general, I really think that you should have given him some more love lore-wise/aestethically. Like, Legion got Addon chase music changes in their rework, why not Trickster? Plus, he should have really gotten a map (Just like Twins and Blight). These things are very important to his playstyle and balance, trust me.

Regarding lore, I still don’t understand the “trick” part of Trickster. The lore and backstory made it seem like he could do all these fun things with knives, but he pretty much just throws knives in a straight line…. And his ultimate move is to throw more knives in a straight line.

And all his “does fun things with knives” addons are purple rarity, which means I would need to invest lots of of bloodpoints to use them, and still might not be able to use them every game.

At the very least, trick blades should be yellow rarity, so people can easily use them whenever they want.

The other problem is that right now, I can’t even use the fun purple rarity addons, because I’m stuck using momentum blades, with one of the addons that extends main event duration, because both those things feel horrible at base kit.

Hello, Revium - Self proclaimed Trickster Enjoyer here

I have a TON of thoughts on The Trickster's addons and i hope that video format works because text is not a very good place to show visual stimuli for my reasoning. Hope this is okay as it is most convenient for myself while I am doing other work.

(I AM PRIMARILY TALKING ABOUT ADDONS AND HOW TO MAKE THEM FEEL GOOD) from the perspective of someone who's mained trickster since his initial release and has played all iterations and seen where he needs improvement in each.

(https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2010834927) In this video i use ms paint to show my feelings.

Thank you for hearing me out - Revium🤩

8 knives to lacerate means that the Trickster changes were closer to a nerf than anything else honestly.

It should be 6 knives to lacerate with a 10 decay (I thought what BHVR intended was to make the counterplay for survivors better, but that's been completely undone), along with a penalty for missing knives before main event is charged, say, 1 to 2 blades lost every time you miss blades, and main event should not be every 8 blades.

It is incredibly unfun and unfair to try to counterplay a main event that is active in almost every single chase and buffing main event at all is still the most baffling change that was made to him honestly.

Main Event would be a better mechanic if it took say, 15 to 20 consecutive hits to activate (blades missed of course making you lose charges, to reward and incentivize accurate players whilst punishing players who lack knife discipline).

To better answer the context of 6 blades vs 8 to injure. With current throw rate it takes 2.4 seconds to take a health state. If this were 6 blades it would instead take 1.8 seconds to take a health state, so making this 3 (6/3 being 2 seconds to take a health state) instead means Trickster gets some of his lethality back but also can play more patient and more accurate because current trickster cannot do that to the level of his pre 7.4.0 version.

My changes would make counterplay better also because missing would actually punish the person into not getting Main Event nearly as often.

I forgot to comment on this earlier. Trickster originally (before he ever went live) had 60 knives, but was changed to 44 when he went live.

• context: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/290-5-1-0-mid-chapter "Now starts with 44 knives (was 60), Trick Pouch: Adds 4 knives to inventory (was 10), Bloody Boa: Adds 8 knives to inventory (was 15)"

A few months later, he was changed from 8 knives per health state, to 6 knives per health state.

• context: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/262994/developer-update-july-2021 "The number of knives required to damage a Survivor has been reduced to 6 (down from 8) 

I really want Trickster to lean into the "lots of knives" and "rapid fire" gameplay, to give him a unique identity, and a reason to play him instead of Huntress (who is still a much better pick, even with her slower movement speed). This requires lots of main events, and for people to acknowledge that rapid fire = not perfect accuracy. Having addons that encourage consecutive hits, is very anti-rapid fire gameplay. Every other PvP game I've played, that involves projectiles, acknowledges that rapid fire weapons don't have perfect accuracy, and can miss a lot if the target isn't in close range, and therefore has very large ammo capacities, so players can actually hold down the fire button without worrying about running out of ammo.

And the new Ji-Woon's Autograph and Fizz-Spin Soda really are garbage. I'm not wasting an addon slot, just to get a bit more bloodpoints, and a slightly longer main event.

We feel Memento Blades makes too much of a difference when it comes to Trickster's lethality. To avoid just nerfing people's favorite add-on on him, we could add some percentage to the base kit again and nerf the add-on itself since 10% is too much of a difference. In Main Event it adds an extra knife a second which could prevent the survivor from running to cover. Also, the memento blades make his throwing animation bugged again.

The add-ons that feel lackluster compared to the rest (especially Watch and Memento) are Edge of Revival Album, Cut Thru U Single, Fizz Spin Soda, Ji-Woon's Autograph, Bloody Boa, Trick Pouch.

Album is somewhat of a beginnerISH add-on. For Good players, the value of it was to 99 Main Event while using your Power and to get hits when survivors camp corners, pallets windows, etc. With the 8-knife Trickster and Main Event change this add-on became way less useful. It completely goes against his current base kit. The 0.5 laceration it provides doesn’t contribute to either the Main Event Meter or The Main Event Combo System. While it has its upside the downside is it nerfes your basekit power usage when going for the Add Ons value. Main Event being so frequent can seem unoticable since Album doesn’t build up Main Event nor the combo score resulting in inexperienced players Wasting a lot more knives for downs and using Main Event way less frequently. But the goal of the Trickster Changes is to make Main Event more frequent and be an ammo saver/ finisher mechanic. This add-on would need some tweaks. Give it a bigger splash radius, make it contribute either to the Main Event or to the Main Event Combo score, or give it an extra effect. 

Single is a very situational add-on. Its value was seen mostly when survivors would be protecting their teammates. The benefits from it were to increase the knife damage per second, damaging the person we were chasing (ignoring the bodyblocks) and filling up the Main Event Meter faster. Now since Main Event comes by way faster single and Waiting for You Watch being in the state that it is right now, there’s no point in running Single. Watch as an add-on gives a little too much time back from a single knife and in scenarios where people body block Watch makes it so survivors allowing Trickster to shoot them makes Main Event not End until there are no more survivors to shoot at. 15 knife hits with Watch give you an entire 6 seconds of Main Event back. 

With all of this in mind, we have to consider that Trickster has to use 2 more knives for a health state which also doesn’t benefit the add-ons much. My recommendation would be to make the add-on deal 100% laceration instead of 50%. Body blocks are way too situational might as well make the add-on stronger for those moments if we want people to consider even running it. 

Soda and Autograph are a cool concept but don’t give any value to the Trickster. Equipping Tequilla with an E combo Score would give a longer Main Event than getting the Supreme Combo Alone. It makes the add-ons pointless to run. The only benefit for them being equipped is to secure more Blood points for reaching a better combo score since the increased combo window allows Trickster to be more careful with his knives. It should Either go back to the 7.4.0. PTB Effect but a bit stronger ( soda 3 knives faster to proc Main Event and AutoGraph 2) or it should have a different effect in total. 

Again PTB 7.4.0. Soda was not OP. Pairing it with 7.4.0. Death Throe Compilation made people think it’s Too Strong but IT WAS NOT. DTC value could get Triggered just by not missing 39 knives. Soda and Autograph as add-ons went against the combo score itself since the score goes up to 8 knives hit. Getting Main Event against a healthy survivor at 3 knives would not give Trickster a strong Main Event. He could correct it but the Main Event timer would be ticking. There would be a high chance that Trickster popping Main Event on a healthy survivor would result in the survivor losing a health state but reaching cover since the 3 Knife combo score doesn’t give that much extension. It would be a high-risk high reward playstyle either you down the survivor using low knives or you lose the survivor and punish yourself with a stagger since the combo score didn’t give you a strong main event with you shooting 3 knives. 

Main Event at 5 Knives would probably need a main event extension add-on to function at all. 

The Extra Knives add-ons feel underwhelming since they remain the same from his 4.4 version. 12 extra knives are 1 extra health state/ Main Event while before that were 2 extra health states aka an extra down. If those two add-ons together would make Trickster have 60 knives, they’d have a significant increase in usage. 

Love NJ

Now that I have spent more time with this Trickster, and because Dance asked about add-ons and points of frustration…Thought I’d chime in once more. Just wanted to spend more time with this Trickster and talk to other Trickster mains first.

Overall, I think this Trickster does feel good, he has to be played differently from 4.4 Trickster of course, and if you are trying to work that out with your own playstyle, he will feel good to play. But, I do wanna address Memento Blades again….

I think it's clear BHVR is not going to overreact, even if people complain about Memento Blades. But even so it is very strong on THIS Trickster. I see people want it as basekit too......I think trying to alter his throw rate at current, is pushing this Trickster towards making him easier, not in a good way, without meaning to. Or taking away some skill expression that he has at current. I understand the idea of Memento blades being basekit in order to make Trickster feel more M2 driven, to lean into his M2-only playstyle that you could do with 4.4 Trickster. And at first, that sounds true, until watching Trickster mains with practice do mostly m2 with THIS Trickster well enough.

So I have to ask, why does a higher throw rate feel needed then? I realized that we have had this Trickster for a week or two and we are already saying his throw rate isn’t good enough, and yet some already have proven it is. Not to mention you shouldn’t feel like you’ve mastered this character in just a week or two, it's not the same Trickster. This goes for other basekit suggestions...and what I said previously about "having cake and eating too", survivors aside, this is about skill expression....There is some skill expression through his throw rate, and through New Main Event, i.e. going as many as 3 or 4 chases without reloading, for being accurate with Main Event and popping it at the right time. As well as skill expression in being careful to not waste knives when looping, timing your shots, and learning what survivors will do so you can get them in position to use Main Event, even if to just save a few blades. All this plays a part in making THIS Trickster skill expressive. That includes keeping his throw rate from being too fast. Given what he has elsewhere in his basekit.

I think Memento Blades feels good, because you don’t have to think as hard about looping and how best to utilize your knives, and it makes downs faster and looping shorter. I disagree that it is needed, and I don’t want to go back on any skill-expressive parts of this Trickster since his skill expression is no longer obtaining Main Event or the no reload playstyle. Memento Blades feels like it takes away skill expression.

I understand the frustrations of feeling forced to m1 or that this Trickster feels not so m2 friendly, but after talking to different Trickster mains, watching the best of the best Trickster mains mostly use m2, and rewatching my own gameplay…on mistakes. I wonder how much of those frustrations with THIS Trickster are really just… not playing Trickster efficiently. Similar to how 4.4 Trickster was not played optimally and his Main Event was said to be "useless" when in fact it wasn't. Because you can't say it's not possible with THIS Trickster to lean hard into m2, with current throw rate, because when I look at Wacek play Trickster, I know it is. He's still playing mostly m2 and with the current throw rate. Ayano, can do mostly m2 if he didn’t use Memento Blades, Knifyyy is another Trickster main, mostly m2, and Guegjigo can do mostly m2 without Memento Blades and at the current throw rate. And you might say well they are top Trickster players, and that’s why….well isn’t that the point? Wouldn’t it be more of a concern if they couldn’t successfully play Trickster as mostly m2 killers with the current throw rate? I think people are having a hard time accepting that he can be both skill-expressive and beginner-friendly, which is what this Trickster feels like. I think adjusting and taking more time to learn better ways to play THIS Trickster might help with frustrations of the throw rate.

Personally, in every case that I chose to basic attack and didn’t feel good about it, is because I made a mistake somewhere, that made me resort to having to m1 over m2 in the first place. Not necessarily because basic attack was the only choice, and a faster throw rate was needed. I could have done something better to do mostly m2. With all this said, using m1 is part of this Trickster's efficiency and I think how little you are forced to m1 might depend on how well you do with everything else...So while being beginner-friendly, he takes some skill to go for the mostly m2 playstyle.

This is why, I don’t feel the current throw rate is an issue, or use Memento Blades out of necessity. if I saw better Trickster players struggling to play mostly m2 at the current throw rate, and if no one could do it, I would be concerned then.

Just in case anyone forgot….I am a console/controller player (as mentioned for the millionth time) and in theory, whatever pains PC Tricksters feel, I should be feeling it worse or are more sensitive to basekit changes because of well.... joystick….. But I have to say, I’m not feeling throw rate pains. Maybe that’s just me…

I think a better compromise than adjusting his throw rate would be to buff Boa and Trick Pouch to allow for missed blades, zoning blades or breathing room for addons that might require experimental blades... should someone feel too restricted by the number of blades in basekit.

Other add-ons should be adjusted and could use buffs. I like the idea of half-laceration damage becoming whole-laceration damage for some add-ons like cut through single and even buffin Album. I agree with that, it would make them feel worthwhile while I think to experiment with.

Do something with Soda and Autograph, for sure. It's just not even a little enticing, nor am I even curious to try them. Opening the window a little for combo score? Not interested.

Thank you BHVR for taking the time to go through the comments.

Well, if you say so, but I still stand by this opinion. I dont doubt that you feel you need the extra 10% of Memento Blades to succeed in matches. I'm just providing some thought on when it comes to needing faster throw rate on top of 4.6 AND 15s decay laceration. You are saying its because the 8 knife to injure. Yes that does make a difference, can't deny that. I do feel it when I am comparing this Trickster to old Trickster. However I dont find myself comparing this Trickster to Old Trickster like I did in the previous update....There are lots of times in the previous update I would say "Man that would have already been a down...that would have been an injure". I dont find myself comparing out of pain like I did last update. The 8 knife is a new challenge that you need to account for when in chase and looping. When you do that accuracy becomes more important. Mind gaming becomes important, timing shots...everything becomes more important to make sure you injure them. Before you could injure while in animation, and now thats not guaranteed, unless you start sooner, or your accuracy is better. I don't think thats terrible, I just think is a challenge. One of the things that I didn't like, if we are comparing 4.4 with 4.6 Trickster, is people saying this Trickster was for people who didn't want to take the time to learn 4.4 Trickster because he was harder. Its true though, and I think thats why I am wary to remove any of THIS Tricksters skill expressions or difficulties. And I say difficulties not frustrations, not to me at least, because I am learning to work around the 8 knife to injure. 8 knives to injure is what we are saying we need the memento blades for?

I think 10% is a lot to put in his basekit, and it does whether you agree or not about having it, it does make a huge difference and makes him less challenging to use. Maybe 5% but 10? If the counterplay isn't in laceration, or movement speed then where is it? It just feels like we would be making 4.6 Trickster have everything 4.4 did but with 4.6 movement. And 4.4 Trickster was pretty strong, he was just slow as hell (but for a reason). Just an opinion and some thought. I've been running a build without Memento Blades to see if it is in fact only the better players who can manage without Memento Blades...and I am not the best Trickster, but I haven't felt like my losses were because I wasn't running Memento. Usually because I made a mistake or my accuracy. Like I said before. And remember this is all opinion, even your counterargument. Doesnt mean BHVR will listen to it.

I wish that were the case too. I wish survivors would ask for Adrenaline nerf tbh Lol....But if they don't play killer they more than likely will see nerfs as " this game is killer sided" which is very much not true.