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BHVR expect us to wait for years for QoL changes
Q: Do you plan for survivors to be able to inspect other survivor's builds before the game starts? Just to make people with less than 4 players coordinate more efficiently?
A: This is something we've also thought about, but are currently restricted due to flexibility in the lobby screens. We are updating these old screens gradually and you should see some improvement over the next years :) -Rose.
Q: Same rotation of the maps can get boring fast, do you plan adding more realms? For the characters that currently have no personal realms especially. Trickster deserves a cool neon-y scene map, or our new Good Guy would be even better with the factory :D Or the survivors’ special maps could have been nice as well, like Nic’s movie-filming stage he kinda had at the trailer!
A: Similar to another question I answered earlier, so please allow me to copy paste a bit: Maps are tricky (for a lot of reasons) and there is only so much we can do in a year (for a lot of other reasons). That said, realms are built with procedural and re-use in mind and thus it is very possible to re-explore these realms with new locations in the future. (this is NOT a promise.) -Dave
No. No, no, no and NO! I will NOT wait years for any good changes. I will not wait years for quality of life features. I will not wait years for improvements to your game. Human life is way too short for this. We had bugs from the time of olds returning this month. We still have lockers flipping over. We now have hag and pyramid head with animation bugs. We can't have updated HUDs. Same billion badham map versions. 7 Years guys. 7 Years. I can't do this anymore.
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"years :)" YEARS!! With a smiley face! That needs to become a meme LOL
Post edited by Foempticol on15 -
"Over the next years" doesn't really make sense. Either they meant "over the next few years" or "over the next year" (accidentally put an s). Hopefully the latter.
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Survivors already got the following for QoL....
SURVIVORS...
1) Survivor HUD
1.5) Additional stuff added to the Survivor HUD
2) Easier flashlight timing
3) Removed hook grabs
4) Anti face camp
5) Upcoming 3 gen "solution"
6) The entire Mangled mechanic being updated in the future, to be less frustrating for survivors
MEANWHILE, KILLERS...
1) Upcoming FoV slider
2) LITERALLY ZERO OTHER THINGS ANNOUNCED
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You could say killers got some things in past:
faster recovery on hit
faster pallet breaking
faster pick up animation
bloodlust
longer gen timer (that got kinda offset by nerfing most slowdown perks)
There is not much you can do for killers on global level anymore, because you have massive difference in powerlevels (Freddy vs Blight etc.)
Next changes need to be mostly killer specific buffs, reworks.
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None of those are quality of life improvements. People don't say "killer feels better to play, because pallet breaking is slightly faster".
And that's the biggest problem. The survivor experience is very important to BHVR, and BHVR is always looking for ways to improve the survivor experience..... but the killer experience is not important, and BHVR would rather give killers generic number buffs, that move the kill rate, but don't actually improve the killer experience.
Yes, you can do quality of life improvements for killers. Like removing the forced short m1 attack bug, that can steal hits from the killer.
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This is genuinely laughable.
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You think faster recovery for everything is not QoL, but fixing bugs is QoL?
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Quality of life are things that make the player experience feel better. Quality of life changes aren't designed to increase win rates, they're designed for the experience. And sometimes quality of life changes increases win rates, but that's not the goal.
Slightly faster kicking speeds was absolutely purposely designed to move the win rates. And it's not anywhere near comparable to the time and effort placed into creating the survivor HUD and anti-camp mechanic. Slightly faster kicking speeds is just changing a number in a code file... that's it. Minimal effort.
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Look my guy, while you only have to worry about your own opinion and quickly decided what games changes would be good/bad for you. bHVR has to make that decision FOR ALL OF US, including those who disagree etc. Even an entire company cant do everything fast. We CAN ask and push bHVR to develop things before others and we should, but it comes with the understanding that bHVR has 117 other things they COULD be doing.
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Quality of life changes are things we are always looking at, for example the FOV slider that's going to be implemented shortly and the Survivor HUD that's currently in the game.
The lobby changes will take some time (I don't have a timescale), as things are likely to be reworked. Showing perks loadouts though is not fully part of that, and not decided if that will come into the game for various reasons - lobby dodging would likely increase, you see 3 other survivors with Distortion = Dodge, someone running No Mither = Dodge, someone running a solo survivor build = dodge, as some examples. Things are not cut and dried so before we make changes such as that it has to be considered very carefully both the positives and negatives, and depending which one outweighs the other.
Rather than lobby perks being shown, there's been some great ideas that I've seen recently where you see more in game itself, so for example the aura of a Survivor downed with Plot Twist having a different colour, I think that's something that's far more valuable in game.
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Can you guys at least expand the survivor HUD to show totem cleansing/blessing, chest unlocking, and exit gate opening progress?
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Are there no any improvement ideas for Solo Q survivors planned, like showing AFC bar progress to teammate survivors or basekit Kindred with no killer aura revealing part?
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chest and totems are already shown on the HUD.
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I mean that yellow circle when you do a gen or someone is recovering in the dying state
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Basekit kindred needs to happen, it would definitely help bridge the gap between solo Q and SWF
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Killers also got:
3) nerfed medkits, which significantly hurt solo queue; a lot of killers started using mangled/haemmorhage more after this nerf, instead of the expected less
4) nerfed DS, which won't help the survivor much, unless they are very good, and are not playing against Nurse or several other killers who can catch up easily after the stun
5) disabling DS, OTR and anti-camp mechanic in the endgame, to give killers an (imo) undeserved easy mode, especially if paired with NOED. Again, getting all gens done and having no-one tunneled out of the game at 4/5 gens in solo queue is miracle in itself, and then making killer go into god mode in endgame makes the game for survivors very difficult
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Are there ever going to be more quality of life announcements for killers? We have so many plans for survivors, but killers still just have the FoV slider, and that’s a bit sad.
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out of interest, how do you feel that will help? I can't see any way that can help with solo queue
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Those aren’t quality of life. Just because something is helpful for killers, doesn’t make it quality of life.
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What quality of life options would you like to see?
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I would love to see a progress of how much someone is healed. In solo queue, if someone comes to you and starts asking for heals, people often assume that the person needs a full heal, and reject them, to focus on a gen which might be soon finished. But the person's heal might be 99-ed, and ends up in a down that could have been easily avoided. I've been both in situations where I went down because someone didn't heal me when I was 99-ed, and where I didn't heal someone who was 99-ed.
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I mean that argument would only work if the lobby dodging is a problem in the mobile version of the game as well, since that feature already exists there, and worst case people would need to quick swap to their preferred build in case they run something that gets them dodged several times, therefore I would say it is manageable.
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I personally would like to see hook graps returning in the future. It made the unhook more of an challenge/threat and people didn‘t just run in front of you to the hook without risking much.
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If one survivor is doing the hex totem and another one is close by, depending on the progress of the totem in the HUD you can decide if it would be worth to take a hit for the survivor that is currently doing the totem so he can finish the cleansing or if it would take too long even with that hit taken.
For the exit gates it can be a similar scenario and you might know when you can start to go for the gate that is currently worked on or if you need to take the killer in chase a little bit longer so it can be fully 99/opened.
I think it would definitely help in some scenarios but also make the feature more rounded as it shows progress for all actions.
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you really cannot compare mobile to core version in that respect, totally different player subset
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That is not really quality of life is it? Also it would bring back the issue of de-sync grabs, because on your screen you already stopped the unhooking action and on the killers screen you did not... I think it is good that it is gone.
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I don't know, are there stats on that? I guess the idea of the mobile version was for the same playerbase to basically also be able to play on that device? Maybe an even lighter more casual version? But I have to say I did not expect the mobile version to have more features than the core version in some aspects xD
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Yeah, you make good points. I think like the devs are trying to adjust both of the sides, but it's not as easy as we have thought. The solo queue vs a SWF on the survivor side makes it harder. Balanced against good SWFs means too strong against solo qeueue. And balanced against solo qeueue means too weak against SWFs.
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But we are talking about QOL changes, not balance changes... And about that it should be faster then "years".
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In the pause menu you can look at the perks of your team like after games where you see the points from everybody. The perks of the other side are hidden until the end. Also you could read the description of your and your teammates perks if you forgot what those did.
The ability to change colors of different type of auras and scratch marks. For example make gen auras blue and surivior auras green… and to prioritize auras so that survivor auras aren‘t hidden behind gen auras.
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Solo queue needs help. We need information! Disappointing there's nothing coming any time soon of something like base kindred (without killer aura ofc) or perk loadouts being shown for other teammates, being able to see the difference between a hex totem being cleansed, dull or blessing a totem in the hud, more anti-tunnel perk options, better gen spread on maps... etc.
Dredge needs more lockers on locker scarce maps, hawkins could use an update to balance it out better for both sides. There's a lot to be done.
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Some way to view your currently active tome challenge in a match, so that you don't have to memorize it.
I can't tell just how many times in the past that i've forgotten what challenges i have had active and that i end up either completing it unintentionally or not even attempting to complete it because i couldn't remember what it was.
Would also be nice to have it for daily rituals as well.
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Mid match tab menu / scoreboard where you can see your teammates perks, and which killer it is when the first person enters chase with them. If in lobby is too tough ingame is an option
And more just to add to its potential future
Effects that you receive as survivor in the form of debuffs track which addon / perk that applied that affect on the scoreboard (since it already does so ingame the first time they affect you), and effects as killer that you receive like residual manifest, and some lobby information like items (but not rarity) kept track of for you, and maybe the ability to mark a perk you think might be there as well but its never 100% obvious like if you think a killer has stbfl or if a survivor has lithe
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Every bit of information helps, the HUD feels incomplete only showing generator and recovery progress
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1: Remove the forced short M1 attack mechanic, that can steal hits from the killer. When a killer tries to make a lunge attack, the game checks if the killer is “too close” to a survivor, and if the game decides the killer is “too close”, then it forbids the killer from making a lunge attack, and forces a short M1 attack instead. The problem is that the game then makes a 2nd check, for hit validation, and if the hit is denied because the killer was too far away, but the killer was too far away because the game forbid them from using a lunge attack, then the game stole a hit from the killer.
And anecdotally, it feels like this happens more often when the game is laggy, so I’ve always wondered if the 1st check happens on the killer side, and the 2nd check happens on the server side?
Also, I think a lot of the “auto aim” or “aim dressing” complaints, are really caused by this mechanic. When a killer is chasing a survivor around an object, and holds down the M1 button, and expects a lunge attack that can curve around the object with zero collision, but instead gets a forced short m1 attack… it causes the camera to quickly spin, and the killer to hit whatever object they were trying the curve around. And then people assume aim dressing forced their camera to spin, when in reality it didn’t.
Long story short, the game shouldn’t validate an attack twice, and the game shouldn’t force a killer into a short M1 attack, unless it has already validated that the attack will connect.
2: Reduce the effects of sound occlusion, especially when both players are outdoors, and the sound should realistically be able to travel over whatever object is between the killer and survivor.
3: Make scratchmarks more reliable, as they are sometimes inconsistent on certain ground types or certain ground clutter, or sometimes scratchmarks have random gaps between them, and sometimes a survivor makes a sharp left or right turn and the killer needs to literally guess which direction they went because there aren’t enough scratchmarks.
4: Scratchmarks should glow brighter so they are easier to see
5: Custom scratchmark and aura colors, because they are difficult to see on red maps. And it’s frustrating to try to find a red survivor aura behind a red generator aura.
6: Make footstep sounds more reliable, as sometimes they are just deleted by sound occlusion, or by certain ground types, or by certain survivor cosmetics.
7: Normalize survivor grunts of pain, so that none of them are super quiet like Ace currently is.
8: Somehow nerf excessive hiding. When two of the survivors in a game are excessively hiding, it pretty much forces the killer to tunnel out the other two survivors, which can feel bad for those survivors and for the killer. This is important, because this issue can be frustrating for both sides of the game.
9: (I added this about half a day after making this post, because I forgot this one)..... Lower the volume of the chase music. Chase music volume is currently a very negative player experience, as the volume is purposely high to confuse the killer.
Post edited by Coffeecrashing on10 -
Grunts of pain should be audible behind an object, even when the chase music is happening. Killers shouldn’t be forced into a guessing game, just because a survivor ran behind a line of sight breaker, especially when there are now so many line of sight breakers in the maps.
If there is a volume, that’s quieter than Jeff, but still reasonably audible behind sound occlusion, then that should be fine.
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Just show the damn perks in the lobby, Mandy.
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I don't know, I would just say that if the problem existed it would have been fixed or at least the community would have been loud about it and I have heard of neither of those things...
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Stealth perks should have a limited duration, so they are only used as anti tunnel, or only to help escape a chase.
There should never be stealth perks that can have such a massively high uptime, that survivors can use them to excessive hide from the killer for large portions of the game.
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The survival rate isn’t important
The important part is those perks can be massively unfun for the other survivors and for the killer.
If killers are expected to avoid tunneling survivors, then there needs to be a reasonable expectation that all 4 survivors are findable. And when survivors are excessively hiding with perks like Distortion and Calm Spirit, it’s not reasonable to expect a killer to find those survivors, when there are other survivors that aren’t excessively hiding.
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Eruption got nerfed, because some people were using it to excessively defend a 3 gen situation. It didn’t matter that some killers weren’t doing this with Eruption.
Similarly, it doesn’t matter if you personally aren’t causing frustration with your SWF when you use distortion and calm spirit. What matters is that many solo q survivors are causing frustration for the rest of their team, when they excessively hide with perks like distortion and calm spirit.
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Windows of Opportunity/Lithe may indeed lead to a higher escape rate (citation needed), however, it also isn't directly the cause of everyone else dying. I'll wager that no Killer ever has gone, "Hmm, Lithe. I guess I'd better not chase them again." I know I've never done that, nor has any Killer in any game I've ever had.
Killers will, however, say to themselves, "Two people are running excessive stealth perks, I've not even seen them yet, so I'd better put extra focus on who I can find." If you're not being chased, someone else is taking your chases. If you're never getting hooked because you're hiding all game, someone else is taking your hooks and dying. People with Windows/Lithe are at least starting chases and drawing heat from the Killer.
Distortion essentially forces Killers to tunnel even if they don't want to tunnel or forces Survivors to run a perk they might not want to because Blendettes are costing them games on the regular. I don't think, "Oh, everyone can use this perk and we'll all crab-walk around the map and drag the game out for an inordinate period of time" is the answer to excessive stealth, much like how setting your house on fire isn't the solution to your house being on fire.
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Perhaps..and I'm just spitballing here..the reason why people don't want to play with "solo" builds because they encourage unhealthy,unaltruistic gameplay and should be looked at? Just a thought.
Either way,if this the reasoning why perk loadouts won't come to core... Lol. I've already stopped playing since Chucky dropped but y'all are making it your goal to see players not return. Hell even Otz isn't behind this "we'll make QoL changes in the next decade or so"... jesus christ way to be out of touch.
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No eruption also got nerfed because being incapacitated for half a minute with no warning is idiotic design.
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I mean, are these builds not disliked for a reason?
Three Distorts make you a tunnel target, No Mither puts you at a grave disadvantage and against killers like Oni can entirely ruin your chances at survival, and Solo Survivors mean pushing a 3v1 from the start.
Fundamentally, if these builds are getting dodged, is that not a sign that those builds and perks are not constructive to you winning or losing as a team, and that they should be changed in some way?
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It's not about strength, though popular doesn't always mean strong and unpopular doesn't always mean weak. It's about forcing a stale game-state, it's about your team-mates having to run perks because your choice of perks and play-style are negatively impacting their game experience and harming the team overall. It's about Killers having to run perks to counter the fact that you're refusing to participate in normal game-play as much as humanly possible. So yes, if it became meta, it would be a problem, because every game would become massively tedious for everyone involved and would lead to the game being unplayble without 100% of players running the exact same required perks.
Your false equivalency isn't proving anything. Flashlights are nothing like people hiding all game and painting a target on everyone else by refusing to participate as much as possible. Lightborn doesn't discourage you from participating in chases, body-blocking, drawing aggro, etc. By its very nature, with a stealth build, you're going to be avoiding those things as much as possible, increasing the pressure on the rest of your team significantly. If you're not taking chases, hooks or body-blocking, you're a dead-weight to your team.
With exhaustion perks, chases still happen, aggro is still drawn, participation still occurs and other team-mates have a chance to recover. Abandoning a chase because someone uses an exhaustion perk in an advantageous area doesn't mean Killers will choose to never chase those people again under any circumstances. That Survivor is still actively participating and taking some of the strain for their team. It is not the same as never being able to find someone and having to go after more visible players more often, or being targeted more often because of the selfish, non-participatory play-style of your own team-mates.
There's a difference between perks and items limiting particular instances of how the player participates and interacts with others and reducing your own participation and interaction to almost zero, much to the detriment of your own team.
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Pain Res is a buff 1-6 hooks, and a nerf 7-12 hooks. At 6 hooks you either have 2/2/1/1, which means you have 2 death hook Survs, or 3/1/1/1, which means you have essentially won since you are in a 3v1. 3v1 is so stacked in the Killers favor, and both scenarios if it isn't possible to win as Killer then old PR wasn't giving you anymore regression.
DMS got temporarily nerfed to not work with PR, but it near immediately got rebuffed to work with it again. PR and Merciless was apparently too 'oppressive' so they instead brought back the problem child combo. (That isn't even bringing up UW combined with it now.)
Pop is also arguably a buff, as it rewards good usage more, and penalizes bad usage. Kicking a 25% gen instead of taking a chase is most often the foolish move, and the shift in Pop's strength accentuates that. Pop is stronger anytime the 4th piston is active, so that means any time someone has a gen ~67-89s completed. That means when you hook and pop it, the Survivors will likely foolishly rush for that gen in a sunk-cost fallacy train of thought instead of healing, causing an easier down+hook+rePop. Easy snowballs into easy victories (at least in most of my games).
CoBruption(+OC) was busted beyond belief, as a spacebar was the only thing needed to win matches. Even then, Eruption still deals 10% max regression per gen kicked, which means you can easily hit 2-3 gens for a better PR/Pop, and know if they plan on sticking to the gen or leaving it due to the aura.
Corrupt is fair to say it got nerfed, but that needs to be measured in comparison to what Survivor got nerfed. DS dropping to 3s near deleted the perk, DH getting nearly deleted similarly, and old CoH was nearly a SWF free win just as CoBruption+OC was for Killer.
NOED I feel is a mixed bag however. It causes people to stay and risk a cleanse or unhook, which often leads to 2-3 extra kills beyond the person already on hook. At the same time, it makes it possible to find and cleanse it in a timely manner to potentially get a 4 escape. Since it can shift 1ks to 0ks or 4ks (and everywhere in-between), I'd say it mostly shifts it in favor of Killer gaining up to 3 at the cost of potentially losing up to 1. +3-1 is still net +2.
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Personally I love the way everyone complains that the game is buggy, and breaks with every update, and always throws out the 'spaghetti code' insult like its nothing, and yet will also demand a feature be implemented quickly and get really mad about it not being at the front of the list.
People have been playing soloQ for years without this viewing loadouts feature... why all of a sudden is everyone so mad about it? It's not enough that BHVR confirm they are considering such a feature?
It's almost like BHVR have started listening to player feedback, and now suddenly everyone feels like they're owed something, and can make demands as they see fit.
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- Hide and seek hasn't been part of normal game-play for a long time, especially not to such an extreme extent.
- You could argue that, but it would also be a very poor argument, as you've evidenced by your less than brilliant attempts to argue it. Exhaustion perks do exactly the same as Distortion, "hammer the team"? Because some people aren't as good at looping as others? If you're making the exact same argument as me (your words, not mine), but for Exhaustion perks, and I'm pushing blame...
- Did I say I had problems? I was talking about the game-state as a whole. Attempting to establish superiority by misrepresenting me won't get you anywhere. Get off your high horse. Hilariously, this is also more of the "blame pushing" you're fond of accusing me of.
- No, I chose to ignore you twice. I addressed that point the first time. If the game-state becomes stale, unfun and anti-participatory, more people doing the thing that caused that game-state won't make it better.
Chases also still aggro while people use Distortion lol, what kind of false claim is it that they don't?? i think i die 50%-75% of my games with Distortion
And what kind of sentence was that? I'll respond to the bit that makes sense to me. You die in 50-75% percent of your Distortion games. This implies you have a higher win-rate when you're not using Distortion, also implying Distortion to be the cause of your increased losses. I will speculate that it's because it forces even Killers that don't want to tunnel to do exactly that. Your team-mates die because of the increased aggro while you hide and do gens; avoiding chases, avoiding hooks, avoiding interacting with the Killer. There is then nothing to stop that Killer from devoting the required time to find you. Like I said, pure speculation, but this is what makes the most sense to me.
When i ran Sprint Burst i could avoid a lot of chases, killer simply found someone else, so what is your point exactly? also again, stop pushing blame.
I already addressed this. "Abandoning a chase because someone uses an exhaustion perk in an advantageous area doesn't mean Killers will choose to never chase those people again under any circumstances. That Survivor is still actively participating and taking some of the strain for their team. It is not the same as never being able to find someone and having to go after more visible players more often, or being targeted more often because of the selfish, non-participatory play-style of your own team-mates."
You accuse me of pushing blame, yet your main response has essentially been, "lol if they don't want to get tunnelled because I'm hiding, they can run the same perks!" or, "If you have an issue with this, you're bad." What's that if not pushing blame? You're accusing me of what you yourself are doing. Ignoring what I've said, ignoring the points I've made while accusing me of ignoring the things you've said, accusing me of "blame pushing" while doing the exact same thing, etc. None of this makes for a great conversation I'm afraid. It's deeply, profoundly tiring and, if you're not going to stop it, then this conversation should stop.
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If a Killer is tunneling out a Survivor and needs the extra help, I'm sorry but that has no need to be supported. The act of tunneling in and of itself is such a free win against soloq lobbies that I assume the Killer player has enough self-respect to at least attempt to spread hooks to express their skill instead of taking the easy low hanging fruit.
With a self-respecting player in mind, everything I said regarding PR stands true. Apologies for not clarifying self-respect among all players. I believed that was covered in the '3v1 is a free win' styled statement, as that would cover the unmentioned 3/3/0/0 and 3/2/1/0 '6 hook' cases.
Old PR vs new PR would stand to be (bolded for better) 15/30/45/60/75/90/105/120/135/150/165/180 | 25/50/75/100/(2 more 100s)/(6 more 100s). Like I said, better 1-6 hooks, worse 7-12. If you need gen regression on the 10th-12th hook... well I just don't know what game you are playing. If a Killer needs gen regression in 3v1 (attainable with the current 3/1/1/1 6 hook spread, or attainable as the 7th hook from a 2/2/1/1 spread), then I'm afraid their skill is so lacking that words and tutorials cannot help them, without them putting in a Doctorate level of work put in.
As far as DMS, I stayed on the gen in a soloq game earlier this week when PR procced and DMS activated (more accurately it was the first hook of the match, so I always test staying on the gen to gauge the Killer's perks). So I tested it, and it worked. I don't know if it is bugged to work in this event patch, or you are unaware that people can let go before the hook (which people did before it got nerfed from 45->30s, and still do if they care to try hard enough).
Also with DMS it appears we are talking different 'old'. 3.6 DMS that you linked is also arguably weaker than the current version since it only worked on Obsession being hooked. I was talking about the 5.5 DMS that you omitted, because I believed this conversation to be the immediate rough past changes, and only using old Moris as an extreme example. (Strangely not met with old Keys/Hatch for comparison as well, as they were both majorly planned to be nerfed in the same announcement [but knowing BHVR that means it takes at least a year aka 4.4.1 Mori and 5.3 Hatch nerfs respectively].)
The only reason PR didn't work with DMS was, as I alluded to in the prior post, PR lost the scream feature. Once the scream feature of PR was brought back in (because of the Merciless Storm+PR combo), it re-enabled PR+DMS, negating the entire purpose of the removal of the scream in the first place.
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