BHVR expect us to wait for years for QoL changes

Windows of Opportunity/Lithe may indeed lead to a higher escape rate (citation needed), however, it also isn't directly the cause of everyone else dying. I'll wager that no Killer ever has gone, "Hmm, Lithe. I guess I'd better not chase them again." I know I've never done that, nor has any Killer in any game I've ever had.

Killers will, however, say to themselves, "Two people are running excessive stealth perks, I've not even seen them yet, so I'd better put extra focus on who I can find." If you're not being chased, someone else is taking your chases. If you're never getting hooked because you're hiding all game, someone else is taking your hooks and dying. People with Windows/Lithe are at least starting chases and drawing heat from the Killer.

Distortion essentially forces Killers to tunnel even if they don't want to tunnel or forces Survivors to run a perk they might not want to because Blendettes are costing them games on the regular. I don't think, "Oh, everyone can use this perk and we'll all crab-walk around the map and drag the game out for an inordinate period of time" is the answer to excessive stealth, much like how setting your house on fire isn't the solution to your house being on fire.

Perhaps..and I'm just spitballing here..the reason why people don't want to play with "solo" builds because they encourage unhealthy,unaltruistic gameplay and should be looked at? Just a thought.

Either way,if this the reasoning why perk loadouts won't come to core... Lol. I've already stopped playing since Chucky dropped but y'all are making it your goal to see players not return. Hell even Otz isn't behind this "we'll make QoL changes in the next decade or so"... jesus christ way to be out of touch.

I mean, are these builds not disliked for a reason?

Three Distorts make you a tunnel target, No Mither puts you at a grave disadvantage and against killers like Oni can entirely ruin your chances at survival, and Solo Survivors mean pushing a 3v1 from the start.

Fundamentally, if these builds are getting dodged, is that not a sign that those builds and perks are not constructive to you winning or losing as a team, and that they should be changed in some way?

Pain Res is a buff 1-6 hooks, and a nerf 7-12 hooks. At 6 hooks you either have 2/2/1/1, which means you have 2 death hook Survs, or 3/1/1/1, which means you have essentially won since you are in a 3v1. 3v1 is so stacked in the Killers favor, and both scenarios if it isn't possible to win as Killer then old PR wasn't giving you anymore regression.

DMS got temporarily nerfed to not work with PR, but it near immediately got rebuffed to work with it again. PR and Merciless was apparently too 'oppressive' so they instead brought back the problem child combo. (That isn't even bringing up UW combined with it now.)

Pop is also arguably a buff, as it rewards good usage more, and penalizes bad usage. Kicking a 25% gen instead of taking a chase is most often the foolish move, and the shift in Pop's strength accentuates that. Pop is stronger anytime the 4th piston is active, so that means any time someone has a gen ~67-89s completed. That means when you hook and pop it, the Survivors will likely foolishly rush for that gen in a sunk-cost fallacy train of thought instead of healing, causing an easier down+hook+rePop. Easy snowballs into easy victories (at least in most of my games).

CoBruption(+OC) was busted beyond belief, as a spacebar was the only thing needed to win matches. Even then, Eruption still deals 10% max regression per gen kicked, which means you can easily hit 2-3 gens for a better PR/Pop, and know if they plan on sticking to the gen or leaving it due to the aura.

Corrupt is fair to say it got nerfed, but that needs to be measured in comparison to what Survivor got nerfed. DS dropping to 3s near deleted the perk, DH getting nearly deleted similarly, and old CoH was nearly a SWF free win just as CoBruption+OC was for Killer.

NOED I feel is a mixed bag however. It causes people to stay and risk a cleanse or unhook, which often leads to 2-3 extra kills beyond the person already on hook. At the same time, it makes it possible to find and cleanse it in a timely manner to potentially get a 4 escape. Since it can shift 1ks to 0ks or 4ks (and everywhere in-between), I'd say it mostly shifts it in favor of Killer gaining up to 3 at the cost of potentially losing up to 1. +3-1 is still net +2.

1. Hide and seek is a part of normal gameplay. Because you dont like it dosnt mean its not a part of the game. When i was a killer main i found hide and seek games a lot more interresting than constant looping.
2. I would argue that exaustion perks do exactly as you say, hammering the team - for people who are not as good loopers as others.
3. As i said, if you cant find the players because if Distortion then its on you, perhaps you should look inwards instead of pushing blame for your own mistakes onto someone else?? because that is what you are doing right now. - I will not make a build for you, but i already gave you 2 perks that could circumvent it.
4. As already i metioned 3 times already, and you choose to ignore all 3 times, everyone can choose to run the perk, if not running it gives them a problem, its their own fault (puching blame once again here).

Chases also still aggro while people use Distortion lol, what kind of false claim is it that they dont?? i think i die 50%-75% of my games with Distortion.

When i ran Sprint Burst i could avoid a lot of chases, killer simply found someone else, so what is your point exactly? also again, stop pushing blame.

1. Hide and seek hasn't been part of normal game-play for a long time, especially not to such an extreme extent.
2. You could argue that, but it would also be a very poor argument, as you've evidenced by your less than brilliant attempts to argue it. Exhaustion perks do exactly the same as Distortion, "hammer the team"? Because some people aren't as good at looping as others? If you're making the exact same argument as me (your words, not mine), but for Exhaustion perks, and I'm pushing blame...
3. Did I say I had problems? I was talking about the game-state as a whole. Attempting to establish superiority by misrepresenting me won't get you anywhere. Get off your high horse. Hilariously, this is also more of the "blame pushing" you're fond of accusing me of.
4. No, I chose to ignore you twice. I addressed that point the first time. If the game-state becomes stale, unfun and anti-participatory, more people doing the thing that caused that game-state won't make it better.

And what kind of sentence was that? I'll respond to the bit that makes sense to me. You die in 50-75% percent of your Distortion games. This implies you have a higher win-rate when you're not using Distortion, also implying Distortion to be the cause of your increased losses. I will speculate that it's because it forces even Killers that don't want to tunnel to do exactly that. Your team-mates die because of the increased aggro while you hide and do gens; avoiding chases, avoiding hooks, avoiding interacting with the Killer. There is then nothing to stop that Killer from devoting the required time to find you. Like I said, pure speculation, but this is what makes the most sense to me.

I already addressed this. "Abandoning a chase because someone uses an exhaustion perk in an advantageous area doesn't mean Killers will choose to never chase those people again under any circumstances. That Survivor is still actively participating and taking some of the strain for their team. It is not the same as never being able to find someone and having to go after more visible players more often, or being targeted more often because of the selfish, non-participatory play-style of your own team-mates."

You accuse me of pushing blame, yet your main response has essentially been, "lol if they don't want to get tunnelled because I'm hiding, they can run the same perks!" or, "If you have an issue with this, you're bad." What's that if not pushing blame? You're accusing me of what you yourself are doing. Ignoring what I've said, ignoring the points I've made while accusing me of ignoring the things you've said, accusing me of "blame pushing" while doing the exact same thing, etc. None of this makes for a great conversation I'm afraid. It's deeply, profoundly tiring and, if you're not going to stop it, then this conversation should stop.

I disagree with you on every argument you come with and i really dont hope bhvr listen to your arguments, i die more with out distortion and if they removed it, it would mean i would have to stop playing.

I will not waste time on a big argument this time.

Lets just agree to disagree.

When I say 2 more 100s, those were bolded, to indicate they are the total regressed value, and the bold to show still higher than 15 per hook. The 6 more 100s are unbolded, so they are less than the 105+. I was trying to be space efficient instead of typing

'25/50/75/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100/100' - The number is the total regression the perk granted compared to

'15/30/45/60 /75 /90 /105/120/135/150/165/180' - Being old PR's total regression numbers.

Essentially what I am saying regarding PR is that you get regression during the point where Killer is weakest and in most need of regression, the start. The fewer Survivors, the lower the chance of anyone getting out.

3v1 in general means Surv 4 is dead. If Surv 1 gets hooked, then Surv 2 has to attempt a rescue while Surv 3 is in chase. That leaves no Survivors to repair gens, which makes it a death spiral for Surv team. If Survs 1&2 attempt to pump gens instead of heal post-hook, then they also risk going down all the quicker if the Killer drops chase on Surv 3. Also they likely will have ~2-3 gens remaining at that time, which means they need a hefty chunk of time to not be forced to rescue Surv 3 when they inevitably go down in chase (assuming the Killer didn't swap to chase Surv 1 or 2).

As far as DMS custom lobby, I don't care enough to test. If I'm wrong so be it, and we can drop it in this thread under the assumption you are correct. I am fairly certain PR can DMS combo, but I won't bring it up again, as it isn't the focal point of my posts.

The point of my original post was that most of the listed 'nerfed' Killer perks had their strength shifted, and when playing into the new strengths they are (imo) stronger than before. I would easily take Ruin/DS/Calm Spirit/Thana to all be their pre-6.1 forms, although I personally prefer Pop and PR's current iterations. I have been consistent in saying (most of) the perk nerfs in 6.1 were mostly bad/misguided, especially since they all encouraged healthier gameplay.

Hey Mandy,

I understand what you mean with the dodging problem, but don’t you think that maybe such selfish perks should be looked into to begin with? These players don’t plan on going team oriented, so why punish people that want to play as a team just because you want to reward selfish people with no team mentality? The amount of players that would get a more team oriented playstyle and would synchronise their perks with each other outweights those who just want to play with themselves in a corner or from locker to locker. And about this issue aw well… There are already perks that counter each other withing the same team (Inner Strength Vs Boon totem perks), and in the future there will probably be more of these and will push back ideas for new perks or reworked perks that could be amazing and fun. Can the dev team really not see the enormous problem that limiting this kind of information is causing to the game and playerbase (solo Q one in this case mainly)?

Please… Really reconsider a lot of things and try to get a new approach in regards of solo Q mainly and how to push it the closest to Swf level with in-game tools such as the loadout being shown to team mates. I am very concerned and worried for the direction and effect this game is getting (especially after the last unfortunate AMA)… Feels like the priorities are twisted in order, at least we as players feel that way.

I hope I was respectful with this comment, and my point was well understood, and if it was not I really apologise beforehand.

The people in this thread and on social media that we are sharing the same point of view. Don’t worry, next time I will add “not Dead by Daylight forum user Smoe tho” at the end.

Except i ain't the only person who don't want it, mainly because it exactly is going to lead to more dodging or dcing depending on where you put the information, you already have people who dodge others based on their prestige, uses anon mode or if they get a map or killer they don't like, not to mention you already have people who have vocally expressed that they're going to dodge others who runs any meme builds or any perks that aren't meta.

Also the only people who's going to benefit from it is SWF, as most solo players will most likely not bother synchronizing their perks with others or just utilizing the feature in general.

Most solo q players will not care about it because team play comes as 2nd or no priority to them, the people that focuses on team play are for the most part are swf and sweaty tryhards.

and again, since people already dodges others because of the other reasons i mentioned before, people are also going to start dodging others over the perks they run just as much, which in return is just gonna cause more backfill lobbies to occur and thus worse games for more people, to pretend otherwise is naive.

Anyone running anything that isn't considered meta are gonna have a harder time finding any games.

Fair enough I guess, even though with the current status of the game making selfish playstyles as rewarding as they are is harming the situation of solo queue and more and more frustrations are rising. Isn’t the argument of the existence of perks countering each other within a team good enough of an argument still though and enough reason to reconsider adding this at a closer time period? It will also affect creativity for design of new perks. Nobody wants to play survivor if they possibility of your own team mates countering your perks is there (happens already with Inner Strength and Boons). I see it very counter productive, imo.

Exactly this. Also selfish and hidey playstyle could not be a problem before when there was arguably not even a winning condition, mmr wasn’t a thing, and yada yada yada… Like how is the idea of good team oriented players dying and losing mmr (therefore eventually meeting killers that won’t be ready for that) and survivors who choose to hide with builds that completely validate that and allow it effectively to raise their mmr? It feels like a joke. The game has changed a lot in numbers, winning condition and viable strategies with the addition of perks that defeat playstyles, others that reinforces them, etc, new killers, new maps… Just add the hide and seek mode for players who want to play like that, but trying to push selfish me-do-nothing-me-hide-me-takes-hatch-and-win style is… disappointing to say the least.

I am so disappointed with the recent takes and information shared by devs about the game on Reddit. Like some content creators said it feels like there is no ambition to make the game smoother and it takes years to make the smallest move and more years to tweak said move because they got the wrong approach… So stale and slow. Like how are permanent broken hooks after a sacrifice a thing to make it so a survivor could not be hooked still a thing 2 weeks away from 2024? How is it that you can’t see your team’s builds to synergise well all be on the same page (add queue up restriction like Overwatch just did if you leave too many lobbies in a row. Every pvp game has this, DbD needs it too)? Why is the chance of cornering a survivor as killer and holding them hostage until the server closes still a thing? 6 years to change Dead Hard and 4 to change Blight addons? Lack of ambition to make the game better and poor order of priorities, and as a player it’s so sad to see.

You are right, that would be being able to play the game without it taking away one of my senses artificially so I can locate my targets better, which would be super premium quality of life!...

Now seriously, I don't think it would make that much of a difference except cases when many sounds overlap each other (like reworked Red Forest on launch... my entity, I couldn't even hear my own thoughts in that map) where is virtually impossible to distinguish a burning barrel from a survivor running. You also have to take in count killers should many times lost line of sight with a survivor to mindgame thanks to that red light we unwantingly have attached to our heads, so it would be nice if you can rely on sound in those cases.

It took them almost 8 years to think of adding emblems and banners. Big meaningful updates will probably take decades.

I mean yeah sure, but I guess it won't happen since they created the chase themes basically just for that goal ^^ And it would be quite the big buff to spirit tbh, even bad players could perform a lot better with her.