How you would change Decisive Strike?

Yeah, DS needs more than 5 seconds. That’s definitely not gonna stop a tunneler—especially if they’ve zoned a survivor to the increasing number of map dead zones we’re seeing.

A few small changes.

Stun timer back up to five seconds. This one's a gimme, it's pretty obviously necessary to make the perk actually do its job reliably. Sure, right now you can use current DS as effective anti-tunnel if you're skilled and get downed in a good area... but the perk should work for all players all of the time, not just for skilled players some of the time.

Make the skill check bigger. I would honestly suggest removing it altogether, but I suppose there might be some niche scenarios where you want the choice of whether to activate it, so... make it the same as the beginning of the second-hook-stage skill checks. See above, the perk should not only be usable if you can reliably hit small skill checks.

Lastly, not exactly a DS-specific change, but add saves to the list of Conspicuous Actions. By and large it's not actually possible to reliably weaponise DS anymore, not without throwing, but I do think it's a little silly that you can potentially go chase + down someone else and still might eat a DS because you down the person that got a flashlight/pallet save. Small change, won't matter most of the time, just a nice safeguard.

I'm wary of making DS too good, not because I'm sympathetic to the plight of tunnelling killers but because I don't think tunnelling should be "fixed" with a single, paid-DLC perk. More should be done alongside buffing DS, in my opinion.

remove skillcheck

What xEa said, plus the nerf to DS in 6.1, and making it so that endurance doesn't stack. So base kit BT (a camping deterrent) can trigger deep wounds, which now disables both OTR and Dead Hard. And those are literally all of the anti tunneling perks you can bring at this point.

The only hope you have is a teammate stepping in to help you, and even BU+FtP is on the chopping block according to the road map.

I feel it should be either make the DS user totally escape the chase, by a Sprint burst with no scratch mark after DS. Or killer unable to use M2 for a whie. I prefer the 2nd idea, since that would put all killers in line (that Blight cant instantly rush after the stun, which affect him more than Trapper).

If you want to bring it back to a 5 second stun i would change the effect to the following:

• Remove the skill check requirement, have it just work
• Stun buffed back up to 5 seconds.
• During the stun the survivor gets a 200% movement speed bonus. (5 sec background player)
• During the stun the survivor leaves no scratch marks and makes no noise.
• Remove the 60 second timer, it can be used anytime after being unhooked
• Add the following:
  • While DS is active, the survivors items are disabled.
  • Add entering a locker as a deactivation condition,
  • Add getting healed to the healthy state as a deactivation condition.
  • Add taking a protection hit as a deactivation condition (no more body blocking)
  • Add saving a survivor with a pallet stun as a deactivation condition
  • Add picking yourself up from the ground (unbreakable etc.) as a deactivation condition
  • If the perk deactivates by any means other than being healed to a healthy state, the perk deactivates for the rest of the game. Specifically for the rest of the game. If healed to a healthy state, it will work a second time.

This basically makes it completely impossible to use offensively, you can't body block other people, you can't flashlight save, you can't pallet stun and you can't immediately hop back on a gen or heal someone else (if so you clearly aren't being tunneled) otherwise the perk is gone for the rest of the game.

On the flip side, against actual tunneling it is much stronger. You don't have to hit a skill check, and the 5 second stun coupled with the 5 second haste means you can travel a full 40 meters before the killer is even done being stunned. Additionally you are able to hide from the killer because you make no noise, the killer is stunned and looking at the ground so they don't know where you went. There is no more timer meaning that no more 61 second DS pickups. Effectively making it the perfect anti-tunnel perk.

HOWEVER:

I still don't think this is what they should do, they should probably just rework the perk entirely and add a new basekit mechanic for tunneling, and my suggestion has always been to do the following:

• Remove the stupid AFC mechanic, its dumb and confusing and doesn't work.
• Remove the basekit BT
• Make kindred basekit
• Make it so if a killer stays near a hook for more than 10 seconds (with a 10 second grace period right after hooking) that the survivor is automatically teleported to: The closest hook to the furthest survivor from the killer.
• Add a new mechanic called Ethereal that survivors get after being unhooked. Ethereal lasts for 30 seconds.
• Ethereal:
  • While a survivor is Ethereal they gain the following:
    • They are able to see the aura of all other survivors
    • They are completely invisible to the killer
    • They make no footstep noise or grunts of pain
    • They leave no scratch marks
    • They make no collision to survivors or killers.
    • They move at 150% movement speed
    • Other survivors are able to see their aura.
    • They are unable to perform any conspicuous action other than unhooking another survivor.
    • They are unable to use items (no flashlight)
    • When ethereal expires (not deactivated from unhook) the survivor is healed to the healthy state.

Basically, this new effect gives the survivor spirits power from the killer POV with added aura reading. The point is two-fold. Tunneling is now literally impossible, because they cannot even be seen, heard, or collided with after being unhooked. Camping is now literally impossible because if the killer does, they are teleported to the closest hook to the survivor that is furthest from the killer. This means that by the time the killer can walk over to the hook they teleported to, the other survivor should have saved them, giving them the ethereal effect. After the effect ends, the survivor is automatically fully healed and they are able to get back into the game, away from the killer, fully healed and ready for another chase.

On the flip side of it, a killer now knows that after a survivor has been unhooked, they will be put on a "timeout" for 30 seconds, and it is 1 less survivor GUARANTEED to be off a gen for 30 seconds and not making any progress.

They could also start adding perks that change this mechanic in some way. Perhaps a new exhaustion perk that makes this effect last longer (like 45 seconds or even 60 seconds) meaning even more time off gens. But gives some kind of buff after the effect is over, maybe like a boost to gen repair speeds or something.

Disable the killer's power for 10 seconds after using it so it can affect all killers "equally" instead of barely doing anything against strong killers, but hard punishing the weaker M1s.

The thing is, there's no punishment for it.

The 3 seconds is a slap on the wrist and 4-5 seconds won't change that at all. The scratch marks are still there and its almost like you never even lost the chase with them in the first place. It either needs to be a substantial increase like 7+ seconds or there needs to be huge penalties to the killer for tunneling someone whose running DS. Hindered, incap & BP penalties. People tunnel b/c making it a 1v3 as soon as possible helps out a ton. Gotta start giving out actual in-match penalties that make it more difficult to win for killer, not easier.

• 7 second stun minimum. Absolutely no less. 3 seconds is a joke & 5 seconds did very little before as well
• Effects like Hindered, Incap & BP penalties that are severe enough for the killer
• Efffects like Haste, no scratchmarks or blood, no grunts, etc that give the survivor an actual chance of getting away

Make it the way it was before just if you do a Gen or heal etc then it deactivates untill your next hook

I have no idea how I never realized this, I confused this with the endurance you get.

The only change Decisive Strike needed was making it work before you were hooked. The "dribbling" was awful for all involved, including the killer.

Anyway, it needs to go back to 5 seconds and it needs to either work during the endgame OR remove the "conspicuous" action and keep the endgame disabling intact.

Add more nuance to the deactivation condition and move it back to 5 seconds.

It currently deactivates if your character feels a slight breeze, but it's not always readily apparent whether a killer is tunneling or not. This kind of goes back to trial pacing, which I harp on a lot. It currently puts you in an awkward position where you stand and do nothing for a bit because any minor thing you do deactivates DS.

There are lots of reasons you can't or shouldn't heal, but that doesn't mean DS should instantly deactivate once you do anything. If you progress a gen by 5% or complete one, sure. If you actually finish cleansing a totem or complete a heal, sure. Deactivate it once all gens are done too. But don't deactivate it on a gen tap against a high mobility or stealth killer.

There is currently nothing meaningful to prevent a good killer player from tunneling someone out early.

That stopped being meaningfully possible (without throwing, at least) when the Conspicuous Actions nerf happened, though. There was a period of time where we had that deactivation requirement and a five second stun, and during that time, the perk was basically the healthiest it's ever been.

(During that time it did stay active in the endgame, though, which wasn't ideal. I'm not suggesting we bring that back.)

I disagree with that.

Bodyblocking can be annoying, but there are ways around it, there always have been. And that "pickup tech" doesn't even work.

The perk is no longer active at the end game and I don't think this will change. But it needs 5 seconds back because right now there is nothing to stop tunneling. It has to be done.

This.

Well said, my friend.

If you're really going to try and make it the anti-tunnel perk, I'd do it something like this:

45-60 second duration

5-7 second stun

7 seconds of no collision with killer

30 seconds of endurance

150% haste with no scratch marks/blood pools for 5 seconds

Deactivates when performing any action besides self healing. If you perform any other action in that time, you're exposed, scream and reveal your location. You can run, hide, be healed and/or heal yourself for its duration, but nothing else, or the perk turns on you.

Obviously, that's a lot of moving parts for one perk. Too many. But it doesn't have to be all that, just something like it. The takeaway is the perk should really, really effective at helping you escape a directed tunnel, but ONLY that.

If the above doesn't stop a killer from tunneling someone, nothing will. And for some killer players, it won't, even at the cost of throwing the game. But if you're going to try to rework the perk and frame it as the premier pure anti-tunnel measure, don't half measure it, do it.

It’s funny because nobody talks about counterplay. You all want this perk back in the meta by buffing it to narnia but you don’t think for a second about how the killer could avoid it while getting value.

Because right now, going for 12 hooks doesn’t give you any value. At least back in the day you had BBQ for the extra BP but that’s gone.

The counterplay is to not tunnel.

You don't need to tunnel to win, spreading pressure is already comparably strong. Tunnelling is just easier.

I'm not saying it is, I'm saying spreading your pressure is a strong strategy.

People progress hook states all the time, especially if they're sacrificed in the endgame or you get a snowball. Going for 12 hook states is not the only alternative to tunnelling.

But, to be more precise... If everyone is alive, and by default (so not factoring in perks or powers yet), the best scenario you can be in is the following: One survivor on the hook, one survivor in chase, one survivor peeling off to get the save. If you're good in chase and you have good macro strategy, you can pretty reliably keep this going just by default; add in time spent healing, or any perks + powers they might have to deal with (IE, finding + cleansing Devour Hope or running between Jigsaw Boxes), and your basekit pressure is pretty considerable.

Tunnelling is, when it works, easier. It's not at all required.

That doesn't work if you don't spam it. If there is a downed survivor standing close to anything you have to take your time, make sure you know which interaction will happen before you do it.

As for bodyblocking, you can go around them. If there is no way to go around you hit, depending on how long it took there is no more basekit BT to help. If they don't have Unbreakable they now need help to get up, the other two survivors can be those SoloQ teammates that will take time to help.

Meanwhile you are putting the pressure on someone else, that can be a Thanatophobia stack taking effect during that time or a Pain Res after a short chase. There are countless scenarios where bodyblocking fails. Sometimes they don't even try to do it.

I asked several times for BBQ to be reverted, so I'm good.