Revert the POST-PTB changes to Sadako

Need a tl:dr and why it should be reverted. I don't want to give unnecessary views on a video.

stated by the developers:

One of the awkward playstyles we wanted to address with this update was the dominant strategy of teleporting as much as possible to quickly spread Condemned. We had hoped that limiting the range of Condemned to powered TVs would address this and allow us to remove the projection cooldown. However, some crafty Onryō players discovered that they could intentionally teleport to the wrong TVs first in order to spread more than one stack of Condemned to Survivors near/heading towards a powered one. Clever!

yeah this makes no sense at all, sadako players cleverly condemning survivors so they decide to nerf it

At the very least, please revert the nerfs she was just given. They were highly uncalled for and only punished survivors who refused to counter her power, and countering her power was only made easier in the 3.0 version of her. That's why it was generally thought that she was in a healthier state to being rather weak against competent players.

Nowhere in the Onryo Feedback thread did anyone suggest that she was overtuned in any capacity. Of course it didn't live up to expectations.

The PTB version of Onryo was in a pretty good spot but still needed a few buffs, not nerfs as she was noticeably weaker. @Peanits I see that you acknowledged that you heard the feedback and will be hotfixing Onryo after the midchapter goes live. We appreciate that a lot. Using the PTB as the baseline, here are my suggestions:

Make the new ring drawing add-on basekit. I think this is the most critical change that needs to be made. Making it so when you hook a survivor with a tape, the other survivors get a stack of condemned encourages Onryo to both hook survivors and to go after other survivors who now have an extra stack (instead of tunneling the hooked survivor). It also adds an actual risk to carrying a tape. This is such a healthy change it should be strongly considered.

Improve the killer's UI elements. Make it so when survivors gain a stack of condemned, their ring flashes a different color. Make the holding a tape indicator a different color as well. Since hooking now locks in stacks, it would be nice if the UI can tell us what survivors are worth hooking. I'm not asking to see the survivors' stacks. Just a generic indicator that lets the Onryo know that a survivor has passed a threshold of new stacks that can be locked in. I'm thinking it should show up when a survivor has 2 or more stacks not locked in.

Remove the ability of survivors to see the auras of nearby active TVs. This kills her teleport surprise stealth potential as survivors can just watch the nearby TV aura and run early when it vanishes. Survivors can still see the icon of the TV they need to deliver their tape to.

And that's it for me. I know many others have also mentioned wanting the tape insertion time to be increased, but I'm not sure how badly that would affect her tunneling potential so I'm not going to weigh in on that. Thanks again for listening to the feedback!

Thank you so much

Again thank you so much! ❤️

Please bring back Old Video Tapes that passively condemn! ❤️ even if the timer got increased! It was a great feature that allowed for pressure on a survivor to do the gen or go turn the tape in

I’m open to iri video tape. Just not what’s going to be released on the 30th. :)

Agreed! I too love that combo. 💕🥲 however, there’s just no reason for her to have four purple add-ons, and only one of them is barely useful, after January 30. It will no longer be useful at least not for the element of surprise. (VCR)

Tape editing deck used to be my all-time favorite add-on. I loved slowing survivors down in the beginning to give me a slight Headstart but now it’s effective in doing that, they see a tape in their hand automatically and they say OK no problem. Thanks for the tape early…. 🙄 I would settle for passive condemn to build up on their tapes just for that add-on, even if it wasn’t granted for regular tapes pulled out of TVs. (I hope that makes sense)

No clue why they thought it was a good idea, I hope they revert the nerf entirely and not adjust it

I updated my suggestions regarding our well baby’s addons. Will you take another look for me?

I forgot some important details. @radiantHero23 Will you check too? What am I missing?

I understand, but at least I tagged the Developers in it, and I am doing my part as a relatively new member to this forum to help shed some light :)

I never commented much in the past on the forms, if anything at all, but lately, I feel my voice needs to be heard.

Thanks for the heads up! Let me read through this and type in live time here.

• Tape Editing Deck: Passive condemned on this addon specifically is a bold step, and I endorse it because it's an active choice to run and could lead to experimenting with it alongside certain builds for slowdown and hindering survivors to gain condemned. I like it.
• 100% agreed with the VCR, don't even need to ask me twice. Always has been my favorite addon for mindgames.
• Telephone: I'm not a major fan of haste/hindered to be completely honest, but telephone has always been extremely weak for a purple addon regardless. I think your suggestion is a step in the right direction.
• Funnily enough, Photograph is my second most run addon. Why? I demanifest/manifest frequently during chases to do mindgames, and due to this I learned I can use it as a pseudo 'I'm All Ears' if I do it correctly at window mindgames or as they turn corners. It's difficult to learn when and how to time manifest for it, but it's very rewarding to see if they double back or hold W. That said, I do agree it could be tuned up and I like your suggestion. (Also fun fact you can interrupt actions with the scream, even unhooking if they look at you. The hate messages I've gotten...)
• Clump of Hair/Mother's Mirror/Newspaper basekit: I can't say for certain if this would be overkill or not as a lot of invis can be quite strong. However considering the circumstances with Sadako, I think it should at least be considered. I'll probably think this one over more but I'm not opposed to the thought.
• Pinwheel/Cloth: When I first played Sadako years ago I was going mad trying to figure out why these weren't effective. Now looking back, I was mostly suffering from 'new player in DBD' syndrome. Blindness doesn't do much for Sadako except counter WoO or other kinds of aura reading, so mainly SoloQ information and Pinwheel seems redundant since Sadako can demanifest, granted it hides her lullaby if you don't demanifest and they ignore the TV. The issue is, nobody will ignore the TV for those effects to linger (unless they also want tons of stacks) and the only combination I can see being useful is Iridescent Tape and Pinwheel, which I shouldn't even need to explain why that's a bad idea with this update. I could rant forever about them, but your suggestion to have them active when the TVs are off is good. May need to adjust range depending on effectiveness but that would need to be tested.
• Fishing Net: On paper it sounds great. 4 locks on stacks = permenant blindness. But as I said before, blindness on Sadako is a moot point if she can demanifest. Aura reading perks are already weak against her power. I agree with you on that fully. I have two suggestions for it: 1. Your suggestion with it being tied to condemned gain and 2. If they double down on hook lockon condemned being capped, have it raise the cap by 1 stack. (Even if gaining condemned will be harder to apply, at least it would be something I guess?)

While I appreciate your thoughts, I don’t know if a 3rd thread is gonna be needed or appropriate. Your concern and ideas are welcome but I would move them to an existing thread where we are talking about this already. 💕🙏🏼😁

I figure the window where the Devs would seriously consider any more significant changes for Sadako is rapidly closing, so why not just suggest more ideas for that 1 additional good add-on that would help her tremendously.

The nerfs to the PTB version need to be reverted. Capping Condemn stacks that are locked in with each hook at 3 is reasonable, but 2 stacks is not a lot of extra incentive to hook for a Killer that struggles in chase. A 10 second cooldown to when her projection spreads Condemn significantly slows down the rate Sadako can apply her Condemn pressure, particularly when the counterplay for survivors has never been easier.

I was thrilled by the PTB and only have 1 thought about her kit besides not nerfing it. If the new Ring Drawing effect was basekit (survivors hooked that are holding a Tape have their Tape destroyed and a stack of Condemn is spread to their teammates) that would be a big bonus for hooking, even if locked in stacks of Condemn are limited. That would free up an add-on slot for... something good that we might brainstorm right here!

A Tier add-ons: Iri Remote Control.

B Tier add-ons: Distorted Photo, Ring Drawing.

C Tier add-ons: Bloody Fingernails, Old Newspaper, Yoichi's Fishing Net.

D Tier add-ons: Well Water, Rickety Pinwheel, Mother's Comb, Tape Editing Deck, Cabin Sign.

Telephone would be worth running if the hindered or the range were stronger. VCR could also work if it were more convincing like Freddy's add-on. Well Stone could be buffed to 10 seconds CD reduction when survivors turn off TVs.

I feel like TV auras are too strong to leave basekit if they keep a 10 second CD on projection spreading Condemn, so remove them or give them a smaller 6-8 m range. But if kept, an add-on could hide the auras of TVs and Tape Editing Deck could use a buff, so it might work there.

Personally I think Sadako's stealth is a little underrated, but an add-on to lean into that would be great. Remove her lullaby and make projection silent.

Give us back that serotonin inducing 'bong' sound from old Iri Tape. Make it reveal a survivor's target TV when you hit someone holding a Tape. That's strong enough to be considered an Iri. Alternately, the TV the survivor turned off could turn back on.

Considering how easy it is to turn off a TV, would an add-on that exhausts while in range, like Rickety Pinwheel, be too strong? It might even prove useful in chase if Sadako can force survivors to path close to a powered TV. Conversely, survivors could be exhausted for 30 seconds after picking up a Tape. This would give Sadako enough time to find the survivor and take advantage.

A small buff to vaulting might help her in chase. It could be tied to how many TVs are powered or how many survivors are holding Tapes. So when survivors limit her power to project to a TV, Sadako can get something in return. Maybe vault speed is 2.5% faster for every survivor holding a Tape. Noticeable but not strong by itself, but it would stack with Bamboozle or Fire Up.

When all TVs are turned off, all TVs are reset and turn back on. This effect can only trigger every 2-3 minutes.

Again, the PTB was a 9.5 / 10. The nerfs should not go through. The new Iri Tape could be a Yellow meme add-on and one of these could be a strong additional option for Sadako. Going back through her add-ons, Sadako has a few options at least, but I thought I'd toss out one last Hail Mary for a stronger new Iri Tape.

This isn't about live Sadako. PTB Sadako couldn't spam nearly as well, and taking a tape had no downsides as they don't break on it or give you condemned in any way, just disables the TV for 70 seconds per interaction.

That was exactly my reason too when I joined this forum. It was Sadakos first rework.

But maybe I have gotten myself too involved into this...

Count me in!

I'd love to play customs!

I’m reading this as we speak I will edit this response. Thank you so very much for taking the time to read my post and adding your own thoughts as well!

I love your ideas on these add-ons! Very creative, indeed! I don’t feel like any of them would be too overpowered. Either, it’s not anything that we don’t already have for other killers, and they still have a stronger add-ons. It’s definitely doable to say the least.

in terms of tape editing deck, you’ll have to show me how you get used out of it, I’ve never been able to get used out of it because they hold onto the tapes before I can find them and then they go cleanse once the TVs turn on and then I’m out three or four TVs from the beginning of the match, and that kills me. It’s very frustrating.

It used to be my favorite add-on because it started them with condemn and passively grew, it gave them the choice of work on the generator, but your condemn goes up or waste time and go to the TV furthest from you to put your tape up but you also risk getting spotted by sadako for an early chase. It was a great beginning of the match time waster for survivors.

The OG Tape Editing Deck was front loading the match, assuming you could capitalize early. If you hard commit in order to deny the turn in, the passive Condemn can lead to an early mori. On Live, it strikes me as decent if you can get a faster 2 stacks from an early hit than from multiple teleports. Plus, the survivors aren't able to turn off any TV right as they turn on b/c they already have a Target TV to go to. On the PTB Tape Editing Deck seemed the weakest. No passive Condemn, and no 2 stacks when you win a chase.

2 Blindness add-ons are terrible but I'd keep Yoichi's Fishing Net, because you have the possibility of locking in permanent blindness. It's worse with a 2 stack maximum lock in, though. Has slightly better potential than Sea Soaked Cloth, though, IMO.