The Onryo Feedback

She was good. Not really strong but good. We all suggested BUFFS on the Ptb to make her feel stronger.

It's the cumulation of none of the buffs happening and unnecessary nerfs being implemented that make her feel horribly undertuned right now.

I hope all the effort y’all are putting in giving this great feedback won’t go unnoticed, it was disregarded last time so I just don’t want people wasting their time again.

I agree PTB Sadako didn’t feel particularly strong either, however it’s better than the dumpster fire we have right now so I guess we can compromise. There are lots of great ideas to make her better on this thread and the previous ones they can look up, if they care to.

She's trash now. BHVR went overboard with the nerfs like they did with Trickster. Remember that the original Sadako was widely considered as one of the weakest killers in the game. She needed large buffs from her original version to be at least decent. The biggest buff in the current version is Condemn on all active TVs, but she received a large nerf with the 10 sec Condemn cd. Base kit (no addons), she is about as strong as the original. However, she lost her strong addons (original Ring Drawing and Iridescent Videotape). Therefore, she is now even weaker than the original version.

I also think BHVR is overrating the Condemn lock in for hooks. It mainly just saves time hooking. The only way to get large value from the Condemn lock in is to hook them with many stacks on their first hook. On their 2nd hook, it doesn't matter how many Condemn stacks they have since if you down them on their 2nd hook, they are dead from 3 hook stages anyway.

My recommendation: reduce TV cooldown to 25 seconds. I actually think the Condemn cooldown would be fine if her TV cooldowns were lower. This change would give her higher mobiliy in exchange for lower Condemn lethality.

Im still pushing condemned. All my games are nothing but pure stress. It's really like back then, just worse. I have ring drawing autolocked because I want to get anything from hooking people.

If you want gameplay of me suffering, I can provide.

i know what the add-on does, my point is for an IRI add-on you are taking away her strongest trait and that is to build condemn on survivors and add pressure to them throughout the duration of the game. I would say by removing this you are effectively removing her power and you might as well play any other teleportation killer in that instance, like dredge or freddy (who at least both have some kind of anti-loop too).

This could easily be one of those meme brown add-ons for extra BP, not her iridescent.

Having access to such high mobility can be 100% worth the trade off in the hands of a skilled Onryo. Its a teleport but unlike the other killers you mentioned, it has no cool-down and can be used at a will. With the proper adjustments so survivors can't just run around rapidly turning off every TV, it is 100% worthy of its place as a strong Iri-add-on that augments her power in a fun and unique way.

I know many Onryo players focus on her condemn pressure, but some of us also know how strong her old map pressure was and know how to take advantage of it. This add-on will be alright if BHVR fixes it so survivors can't abuse it.

Well it technically does have a cooldown, as the TVs will take 20% longer to turn back on if survivors take a tape and as there's no risk of being condemned, there's no downsides to them taking tapes all game and denying your teleports. You are right in saying that you don't have to play for condemns but it's also a built in slowdown without running a full gen regression build as it's a side objective to gens.

I love playing Sadako as a chase killer but I also enjoy the built in pressure / slowdown condemn applies, without this she's just an M1 killer with some map mobility and there's other killers that do that better IMO.

I would also love to see Old Iri-tape. Old-Iri-tape would be stronger than a fixed version of the current Iri-tape simply due to the fact that it gives Onryo control over when she wants to turn her TVs back on.

However I doubt BHVR will consider restoring old Iri-tape back into her kit. Therefore my efforts for this add-on are focused around identifying the issues with the new Iri-tape and providing BHVR with feedback to help make it a good add-on and not the weak add-on it currently is. The new Iri-Videotape has a lot of potential and I love the concept, but as long as survivors can abuse the add-on to quickly turn off all her TVs and completely deny her power without a downside, it will be bad.

I see a lot of people suggesting that they add ticking condemn back to survivors holding a tape. However I think there is a problem with this. This is because BHVR needs to address the counterplay issues in her kit, as a priority but adding ticking condemn might tilt the scale towards the other side and lead to a Onryo where survivors can't effectively engage in counterplay. Right now the counterplay is way too forgive towards survivors and makes it easy for them to deny and punish Onryo without giving her the means to work around it. This must be addressed.

However if BHVR does address the issues regarding her counterplay, and then decides to add ticking condemn to survivors holding tapes, I feel like it is too much for survivors to have to deal with as it would put them more in a lose lose type situation. Survivors would be pushing for grabbing a tape to protect themselves but also punished if they don't grab a tape. This would be a problem. As long as there is a global condemn type system where Onryo can spread condemn on multiple points of the map by teleporting I think ticking condemn is too strong.

I do propose a compromise solution though. There has been talk about making Yoichi's Fishing Net add-on apply ticking condemn by making it look something like this:

Yoichi's Fishing Net:

• Projection no longer applies condemn. Tapes are no longer broken upon being hooked
• Survivors who take a VHS tape slowly gain condemn when not in chase. (22 sec per stack) This effect lasts until they drop their tape off at their assigned TV.

This change would provide a means for Onryo to work around survivors doing the counterplay of turning off TVs and denying her mobility. It would also discourage survivors from touching her TVs like in 1.0 to avoid a condemn threat as they would become cursed for grabbing a curse tape (lore accurate!).

The result would either be survivors let her have free control over her mobility or take the risk of getting caught with a tape and getting condemned.

It might need some tweaks but I think it would be a fun add-on to play with. I'd love to hear what you all think.

I agree! :)

As long as the condemn is a bit more threatening! I do enjoy your thoughts and ideas around this. I’ve read your post a few times.

A lot of people including myself I think at this point are getting confused on how her power works because it’s been altered and changed so many times 🤣

Thankfully, I’ve been playing her from the beginning, so I pretty much remember how it worked. I really miss the old tapes though.

That’s fair! I like your changes. A lot actually.

I just hate hate hate hate the Cooldown timer on condemn. If it stays I accept it on 1 condition. The TV 📺 I come out of ppl get condemned within your mentioned parameters. 😍

Agreed. It shouldn’t be completely free. My counter to that was bring back passive, condemn, but don’t give them the initial condemn act when they turn the TV off/take the tape.

I personally believe they are going to get it right this time. I do, within two hours of the update they mentioned they were going to fix things.

I think a lesson was learned here. They realized it pretty quickly. I have to believe that this is going to be good. I have to. I refuse to be stuck like this in this condition for the next four years, like it was done to Freddy.

They will make it right in a few weeks, and who knows it might even be better than what we saw in the PTB.

I will remain hopeful, but let’s cross that bridge when we get there. we did our part, they have all the feedback and information necessary to make the appropriate changes at the end of the day. I can’t choose for them to do with their game and how they want to spend their money.

I have got a good feeling they listened. I will prove you wrong when the official changes come out. I’m determined. 😅😊

(After it’s all said and done, not just what hits the ptb if it does)

Yes this is a big issue in any version of her where the survivors are encouraged to engage to grab tapes as part of her counterplay. When this is the case, survivors will grab tapes to avoid condemn, while also denying her mobility in the process. Any system with global condemn (2.0 and 3.0) forces these changes though because survivors have to address condemn aggressively and turn off TVs.

As such, I much prefer it when the condemn threat comes from only 1 TV upon Projection with a higher threat to carrying a tape like in her release version. It was harder to build up but her mobility was not punished nearly as badly. Her release version was fine perfectly balanced in this aspect; to avoid condemn survivors would have to run away from TVs if she teleported in chase. If their condemn got too high by constantly working gens in high traffic areas she teleported to, then they would have to be smart and do a tape run without getting caught. Grabbing a cursed tape (watching it) and then dropping it off (copying it) was a good counterplay mechanic and was very true to her lore. Survivors would be at the most risk of condemn when they touched her TVs.

This resulted in Sadako having a good balance of condemn pressure and mobility since her TVs would almost always be on by survivors where she needed them; this is in contrast to her reworks where TVs are almost always off where she needs them. In 1.0 if survivors really needed a TV off at a critical area to deny her power, such as an almost completed gen or to get a safe unhook, they could always take the TV tape first to deny her mobility and assume the new condemn risk that comes with it. Her release power in my opinion really was the best in terms of risk reward counterplay for her.

The Onryo in the PTB was a step in the right direction but she was still a little weaker than she should be. She just needed a few small buffs to be perfect but instead she got nerfs. Here's what changes should happen to get her to a great state.

1. Revert all nerfs to bring her back to the PTB version.
2. Make new ring drawing (hooking a survivor with a tape gives everyone else a stack of condemned) basekit. This is the most critical change I think needs to happen. This incentivizes both hooking survivors instead of slugging them and chasing other survivors instead of tunneling since you're spreading pressure. It also creates an actual risk to carrying a tape and gives her condemned power a little more teeth. It is such a healthy mechanic that it should absolutely be incorporated into her basekit.
3. Remove the ability for survivors to see the aura of powered TVs when they're close to them. This completely destroys her surprise teleporting stealth potential. Now survivors can just watch the nearby TV aura and prerun when it disappears.
4. Improve her UI. Make it so when survivors gain a stack of condemned, their ring flashes a different color. Make the holding a tape indicator a different color as well. Since hooking now locks in stacks, it would be nice if the UI can tell us what survivors are worth hooking. I'm not asking to see the survivors' stacks. Just a generic indicator that lets the Onryo know that a survivor has passed a threshold of new stacks that can be locked in. I'm thinking it should show up when a survivor has 2 or more stacks not locked in.

That's everything from me. Hope this feedback helps and Onryo gets the changes she needs to be fun again because right now, she's miserable.