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The Trickster Feedback
Comments
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4 blades a second with 6 knives to lacerate would be absolutely HORRIBLE to play against, so having it 3 a second with 6 laceration is a better spot overall.
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To say it was also perfect on PTB is imo ignoring the survivor experience against trickster, because the main event being more often change is still an abject failure and will remain until there's a penalty for missing via charges lost.
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Trickster is better than his worst, but The best time was when I was injured by the previous 6 knives.
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I think Trickster is getting weaker overall.
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I don't think we need so many add-ons that tie in to main event. I'd really like for him to have at least one that makes survivors scream. Its an important part of his lore, and its unfortunate he has no way to do that without using another killers perks.
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My Trickster Version (not including addons)
4.6 M/s, 3.86 M/s while holding knives(ramping slow), 24m Terror radius, 40m lullaby
8 knives to injure | 3 Ramping to 4 Knives per second w/ slowdown(Prerwk) | 44 ammo
15 second decay
12/16 knives to charge main event
base main event duration(6 sec) x1.66 throwrate = 6.4kps Showstopper fatigue set to 4
Combo system (same but improved)
S(8knives) = 6 second extension + 1 bounce
A(7knives) = 5 second extension + 5% movespeed to M.E.
B(6knives) = 4 second extension + bonus 5% throwrate to Main event
C(5knives) = 3 second extension
D(4knives) = 2 second extension
E(3knives) = 1 second extension
+Mapwide announcement of main event charged(for survivors)
+Visual feedback system of the combo system(let people know what combo they are at)
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Since this is an ongoing process of improvement, Im sure opinions are going to evolve. I think mine have some, along with me familiarizing myself with this version of Trickster.
I was trying different add-ons, including Memento Blades. Started formulating Ideas, and shared those ideas with other Trickster Mains....Heres some of my/our thoughts.
- Memento Blades
From what I have seen from both my games and others with different skill experiences, the value of Memento Blades at 10% will vary. I still think at best, baking in half would be better than the whole 10. I dont think this add-on is worth existing as only a 5% increase of blades alone. Im not sure on this one.
A lot of competitive top Tricksters will feel this is an advantage or that it changes the outcome of their game, and is not necessary, because of their accuracy and other skills they can utilize during the match.
Newer players might feel it's essential because they tried it and don’t have experience without it.
While maybe more casual or casual-competitive Tricksters might not think it's necessary, but that it just feels good.
It’s a faster down for sure, more cushion for mistakes in other areas that the player may make during the match.
I think it feels good, but it still doesn’t feel worth running to me. I find it under stimulating. Plus, I find other add-ons more needed. Which brings me to the next add-on…
-Tequila Moonrock
I am married to this add-on. I don’t want to be married. I'd like a divorce….but I can't afford it.
I feel codependent to this add-on because of my play style, which is more of hitting survivors when they don’t expect me to take shots… So more in that mid to just before “You shouldn’t be wasting knives, they are too far, laceration will decay…” kind of distance. Not all the time, but I do like using Main Event in unexpected ways. When they think they are safe, or when they perhaps got a bit of speed boost from injury and I pop it as they run away. It's very risky, but its usually when survivors start running in a straight line, when they they think they are safe to stay in the open, at a distance.
There are certain unexpected ways to use Main Event, but I can't do that without a longer duration. I can’t moonwalk to mindgame with Main Event either, when its too short. Which requires you throwing blades at the ground before turning to surprise them with Main Event. Endzej has an example of that in the Google Doc. Im not sure BHVR ever opened it, but for the communities sake, if you want to know what moonwalking with Main Event looks like, it is there in the Goodle Doc, earlier in the forum.
Even with tying longer Main Event as a reward to Combo system, not having Main Event longer as basekit feels limiting. Moonwalking with Main Event is extremely useful in high tiles, one of Trickster's weakest areas.
Joystick makes Main Event inherently harder to control than on PC (I’ve tested both) too. So naturally you may miss some knives at the start of Main Event before positioning correctly or even if the survivor is weaving. So longer feels better for a controller for that reason, but its nothing I would boycott over, it’s a byproduct win if it was to be extended base kit.
Also, I don’t like the idea of having to only be right on the survivor's toosh to use all of my Main Event on them, it feels cheap. I like the surprise attack or variety use of a bit longer Main Event.
Suggestions:
I know Main Event can't be too long…not with this Trickster.
So how about this:
-Roll some of Tequila Moonrock percentage into base kit
-Some of it into Combo Scoring that makes Main Event longer, based on accuracy
-Then make Tequila Moonrock add-on a lower percentage
This gives an option to run Tequila Moonrock if your aim isn’t good enough to get the benefit from Combo Score as a Main Event extender. While allowing Main Event to feel viable enough without Main Event Extenders, and even if they miss and mess up Combo Score, they still have some extra duration at base kit, and some creative ways to use Main Event.
Tier list of longer main event would be- Best/Longest- Combo score, Second Best- Tequila, Third Best- Base kit
Combo Score- Main Event Extender
With Combo score being incentivized with a bigger payoff for accuracy, like Revvium suggested (he has numbers for this system on his post) this also incentives not having to feel “married” to Tequila, bringing more value to other add-ons that are more creative and promote different playstyles. (If other add-ons are improved than the current state that is... ).
You would probably need to still buff the Combo system beyond dividing up Tequila to be honest, to fit Rev's idea, and make it worth the reward of accuracy.
-I think the longest and best way to extend Main Event should be the reward system for accuracy, so Combo Score System.
-Trick blades
They are my new go-to add-on that’s different and exciting among the many flat an outdated feeling addons, with New Trickster. Trick Blades helps save time in chases that inevitably end in a pallet or obstacle that a survivor can use to waste a lot of time… which despite Trickster being 4.6, does not give him a huge advantage when using your power at strong tiles/obstacles.
I saw some suggestions about extra bounces or that the current extra bounce is too op or something like that. I play against Tricksters a lot in customs, and I never felt that the random blade that might have hit me or downed me was too op, just because its rare. Just knowing a Trickster has Trick blades (easy to tell) means I can adjust how I take chase or take cover. A lot of survivors will sit in place even after the first blade bounces off the wall and hits them, until they are down.
It is RNG dependent, it is not always consistent, unless you have it mastered or have tested every specific area of that specific map ahead of time ….It is not even close to being op for 99 percent of Tricksters, except Mr. Meow.
Suggestions:
A little nervous to give this suggestion for this add-on, since it is fine and the best overall add-on.
But like Edge of Revival Album, there is a certain amount of experimentation with these add-ons that you feel less inclined to take, because you are at 44 knives and 8 knives to injure/16 to down.
-Adding extra blades attached to this add-on. Maybe 8, or since it is a purple add-on maybe 10. I will leave that up to debate.
(not too many that might encourage spamming, but enough to allow some experimental shots)
-Edge of Revival Album
I started using this when I first started playing Trickster 5 or 6 months ago. I stopped using it for dumb reasons (Was told it was what you use when you can't aim), but recently tried it again with this Trickster. I really like this add-on, but given that we are at 8 knives to injure, I feel it could use some buffs.
It is actually pretty useful for controller players especially. You are going to miss some shots at tiles and with good survivors, so you can aim near them and the building laceration will push them out from behind an obstacle into the open where you can down them.
You can aim at the feet with weaving survivors, and build up lacerations if you do infact miss some shots. This might pscyhe them out thus straightening them out to make it easier to shoot them. Again good for controller players.
But I do think it could use a buff or some extra flare. I like Revvium's idea, I think it was to extend the radius of the splash damage a bit.
Suggestions:
-Slightly bigger splash damage radius
and/or
-Adding extra blades attached to this add-on. Since it is a purple add-on maybe 10.
Especially since inherently Album is going to use more experimental blades, or blades to push out survivors. I feel more confident about suggesting extra blades here.
-Boa and Trick Pouch
Suggestions:
-I feel like it could use some more knives. The lacerations meter went up, why are these still the same?
This gives these add-ons more value because of the suggestions for Trick Blades and Edge of Revival Album (extra blades).
It also will allow the current default amount to stay at that symbolic 44 Knives, which 4 being associated with death, but offering more blades for this current Trickster who has a higher knife-injure ratio now through add-ons.
It would be cool to see someone run both Boa and Trick Pouch, and forgo any other advantage but just have extra blades. Could be its own playstyle.
-Waiting For You Watch
I didn’t try this one for long with this Trickster, just because I get more value for my playstyle with Tequila. It was usually end game, or with survivors who haven’t learned how to counter Trickster yet, who grouped up for an unhooking (the worst thing you can do) that Stopwatch really shined. But once you start going against people who know how to counter Trickster Stopwatch doesn’t really shine as much anymore. If they are good at breaking LOS, it starts to depreciate its value. But it can be very lethal if survivors do group up.
Suggestions:
During one Endzej’s recent streams, who is a prominent Trickster Main In the Trickster Community, had also Wacek, top winstreak Trickster Player and Revvium who is another well established Trickster main In the community, had a whole podcast brainstorming ideas for add-ons and just creative things to do with Trickster for a few hours.
One of those ideas was assigning different colors of blades to certain add-ons. Apparently, this is something the community has asked for before, for cosmetics having different colored blades.
So….With Stopwatch and its lethality:
-Maybe it would help if the blades were a different color that survivors could at least see visually, and tell themselves “hey, this is that dangerous af add-on that we absolutely can not group up with or need to scatter like rats if we are found.” Then the survivors would at least know they shouldn’t body block based on the color of blades they see.
Maybe then we could be more lenient with Stopwatch if there is more active counterplay. Then its current lethality is less of threat…And a visual que would be fun for survivors to have to look out for. Using more brain and strategy. Maybe it still needs a tiny nerf, but I think with counterplay it could be fine as is.
-Cut Thru U Single
It's not going to get a lot of value as is. Just not that often that you are going to find survivors who body block, and even if you found a match where you got more value out of this…by itself Cut Thru U Single feels meh. I want it to be exciting and worth its weight in slot space….
Again, the knife-to-injure count went up, so this add-on should be adjusted.
Suggestions:
-Revvium suggested a full laceration for the next survivor hit. I would add, that it does an effect as well.
-The second knife to hit the second survivor, causes deep wound on them. So if they do get away, they need to mend. Cut Thru U Single is very situational, so I think high reward is okay to have. It also adds some unique pressure for more than just 1v1. As Trickster is strong in 1v1, but if 3 survivors are doing gens at a time elsewhere, it doesn’t matter how strong he is in a 1v1.
-Death Throes Compilation
I enjoy this add-on. It is the one I go to when not using Trick Blades, and works well with Tequila Moonrock.
Suggestions:
You could probably be more creative here, maybe this is where it causes nearby survivors to scream when Main Event is used on a survivor, with this add-on. Maybe it causes blindness too *nudge nudge*.
As an Iri, it just feels like it needs more punch.
-Diamond Cufflinks
Another one of my most used and go-to add-ons that I love, Is Cufflinks. I would use it to make more flashy shots…sometimes longer shots or snipes. But it feels like it has less synergy or maybe it just needs more now with New Trickster (because of knife to injure/knife count/Main Event etc…).
Not to encourage any notion of making Trickster like Huntress, by taking longer snipes and hole shots. I don’t want Huntress 2.0, but the *cool factor* of this character is snipes sometimes. It's what makes him look stronger than he is, and feeds content creators with content with compilation clips. But it's not an efficient way to play Trickster and competitively you probably wouldn’t take too many of those shots. With that acknowledged, I like the idea of rewarded longer snipes. I was talking with Revvium on this one, and the idea of incentivizing snipes through add-ons can nurture anyone who wants to play Trickster that way.
Suggestions:
-Survivors hit at a certain distance away (this needs to be tested) gets 2 laceration meters.
How this would balance out-
If you hit a survivor at a longer distance away, they are going to go for cover of course, but you still need to catch up. If they run to cover (which they probably will) that prevents further lacerations, and by the time you catch up, maybe the second laceration might have decayed, but you will be rewarded with a remaining laceration. So you still have progress on them. And doesn’t feel like the shot is totally wasted for sniping.
If they remain in the open, and you can manage to hit them from far way 3 more times, with them swerving, you down them. Then you are rewarded for the snipe. (This would be a nice flex for anyone not using crosshair)
This could be an add-on on its own, but I thought since Diamond Cufflinks is the go to add-on for hole shots. Maybe it can have an attached incentive for long snipes too.
I am still thinking on the other add-ons...
I think the key with Tricksters add-ons is to actually buff them, be creative, and add some flare while being a functional asset. Being too afraid of being too strong is underserved because this killer is very counter-able, and it will be a matter of time when survivors stop DC’ing and actually learn to counter him. Because again strong in 1v1 doesn’t mean a killer is going to win.
The point of taking chases or being chased by any killer….is not to escape chase. It's to waste as much time before you go down. And that depends on how much you are willing to learn about each killer and each add-on they might have. Creating variety in gameplay and counter-gameplay. The killer needs to be able to down a survivor in a relatively short time because of how quick it can take to do a gen. If every survivor could escape every chase, or waste too much of a killer's time because of their weaker basekit or obstacles/tiles, then this game would fall apart. At the same time, if a survivor becomes skilled enough they should be able to waste a killer's time for a while, but not indefinitely… If every add-on of the killer was nerfed or too safe, then the killer gameplay becomes a one-trick pony and predictable. Not fun to go against either. You might as well just call this game Gen Simulator at that point. I think Trickster's add-ons could use a buff.
Overall, this Trickster may be stronger at finding chases, but he is still as weak as how effective he is at snowballing. He is at his strongest when survivors make mistakes and he capitalizes on people's unwillingness to learn how to counter him and accept that the team might make it out, or two might, but they might not. Not every time. I think too often, over altruism and lack of understanding of counterplay results in misinformed complaints and unnecessary nerfs with this killer especially. Make his add-ons strong, creative for this character, and versatile.
Post edited by FreeKnives on3 -
It's been a while since I posted here, because I wanted to see where the game and the Trickster go and well, I made another video on it, to keep the most pressing points in my opinion.
TL;DR: Trickster right now is more an M1-Killer than a ranged killer.
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Nothing will changes cuz, in developers eyes trickster is alright now.
And no matter if his addons are broken and useless, that ability is trash in most situations.
Main event isnt that thing that u want to see every match.
And trickster shouldnt plays from only main event/
No confirmation, no info, no words.(From devs)
sad
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I think the Trickster community has shown to be extremely passionate. Speaking up is very good in the community forums and especially when it comes to feedback. Would the devs (or community managers) be able to comment on if changes are in the works? a TBD or anything to confirm that there's steps being taken would go miles to help player confidence, especially considering the character functioned very well prior to these changes for a large amount of people and we've had to effectively take a 1-2 month break from some of our favorite concepts about the game after hearing about a supposed quality of life update. It's worrying to hear radio silence on this topic considering how dear this character is to each of us.
Thanks! - Revvium 💖
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Also when are we getting all the sound and visuals de-bugged? watching back original trickster PTB makes me cry, there's so many good visual and audio effects that have been rendered almost nonexistent which is horrific, i fell in love with this character because of his charm, charm given by his insanely good audio and visual design. Some sound effects i go thousands of games without hearing, and his old "HYUH HYUH HYUH" when ramping up is gone too! it so sad!
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I loved originial trickster, I loved him for himself, not for any other character.
Closed distance damage, that he could apply very fast, especially with main event it was uncounterable.
And now radio silence from devs, make me think that they just forgot about our cuty k-pop serial killer.
Nah, how obvious that was.
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I don’t think Trickster has been forgotten. I think his kill rates have stabilized to a much better range, that he’s much easier to use for console, and the bulk of complaints about “reworked Trickster being too overpowered” have stopped.
I think the rework was considered to be successful, and Trickster is on maintenance mode right now. And this is why this post isn’t pinned anymore.
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There are no stats to prove any of this and the majority of complaints atm are not at all about powerlevel but about the feeling of the character being lacking compared to previous versions and the horrendous amount of visual and audio bugs. gameplay may be in a relatively balanced state but balance is not the problem with the update imo.
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The majority of the complaints are people just wanting the reworked to be reverted. That's not a valid option. We had current Trickster long enough to know he wasn't a good fit for the game.
And visual and audio bugs aren't feedback... they're bug reports.
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NO. Please don't get me wrong. The current Trickster is weak with poor power levels, so I'm just saying that the previous version was better.
Also, there were too many add-ons that were no longer useful.
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In the first place, I was in favor of a rework that strengthened Trickster, but
The rework done by BHVR was a bit strange, so
I'm just saying that the previous version was better than that. Please don't get me wrong.
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Im Trickster main and after these changes i dont like him anymore. 8 blades for injure is so painful and boring. You are so dependent memento blades add and his movement speed dont help him with his power, just patrol. PLEASE REVERT TO 6 BLADES, make anything about the other changes, but, 6 blades was so much better.
#REVERTTRICKSTER
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It takes longer to injure a Survivor with a knife than before.
Also, using a knife slows down your legs, so you won't be able to feel how fast you are moving.
I no longer feel the benefits of using a knife.
You might be able to feel the speed if you don't use a knife at all.
However, in such a place, it is just an incompetent M1 killer.
I am faced with a dilemma.
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this nerf make him lose his best improvment: down during vault animations ( pallet and windons) . NOW IS SO PAINFUL to down someone in this situations. 6 blades is perfect and this never should change
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I think if you are injured with 8 knives, you can throw 4 knives per second.
If there are 6 knives, 3 knives will be thrown in 1 second.
I don't think it should be slower than this.
I think BHVR is probably thinking that they can do something with the main event.
In the first place, it is activated after the main event is injured and distanced, so unless you add the main event extension add-on, not only will it be worthless, but the cooldown time will be too long, and the survivors will go somewhere during that time. .
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Knowing that 2 months ago 12 of these addons felt good and now they dont feels awful, i would love to actually feel like the addons have a purpose. The only addons I feel powerful with aren't even on this page and on this page I only feel like 3 addons have improved in use.
These addons are:
- Waiting for you watch
- Lucky Blade
- Iridescent Photocard
The addons that still continue to have value despite the changes on this page:
- Trick Blades <3
- Caged Heart Shoes
All of the rest of the addons have become useless due to being outshone completely by addons that solve the base-kits issues, or are just boring and don't have purpose. His best addons aren't even here, they're on the second page and give boring bumps to raw value. Raw value of which should be baked into basekit in some way. but honestly I hate the over-reliance on M1 in every conceivable way, the addons cannot have value if they have to be measured against the m1, because even with the best addon your M1 saves more time in most cases.
Someone playing poorly against you gets punished hardest by not using your power, and that feels awful.
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Well, I Just played against my first Trickster since the rework. If his blades are to stay the way they are, then he needs to be nerfed to 4.4 again. I feel like it was a big mistake to buff both his speed and his knives.
Old Trickster didn't have much counter play to begin with, but now he has absolutely none.
I used to play the odd Trickster Killer game, but now I'll never be playing him again. He's just so utterly miserable to face. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more DCs than The Skull Merchant now.
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As i said this post is forgotten, theres no longer nerf or buffs, or addon changes, or any useful info anymore/
Cuz, trickster killrate is stabilized, and no one cares that his addons are trash ect ect...
Meh, i think they will nerf billy and blight in the same way to turn them into trash.
Cuz as we know, devs dont know how to balance them right, or its just a joke to all killer com...
1st release rework on a ptb (sometimes its truly perfect).
2nd when its releases on a live servers (nerfed all those things that made those characters so perfect on ptb)
3d fotget about it.
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The knives got nerfed by a large degree compared to 6 knife Trickster so idk how you could come to this conclusion, his time to kill and accuracy needed to keep up pressure has been increased. Old Trickster killed dramatically faster if you got caught out in the open. The only thing that is very dramatically increased is his movement speed, which I'd agree is not a fun addition to the kit on either side.
This version of Trickster is very good at tunneling/sticking onto a survivor forever, there's no escape if he knows where you are.
But the solution is not to nerf the blades, the solution is to reduce his ability to keep up back to the old version and make the power feel better to use by making it stronger whilst adding back more dependency on ammo by making main event take longer to acquire. There's plenty of counterplay against the killer- but it does require key insights that aren't always very clear unless you have good understanding of the power. again another issue that the kit has.
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Another interesting insight i've noticed is people I play against have no idea how many blades it takes to get main event, and it requires them to pay attention to laceration # applied in order to reliably keep track of the killers power spikes. I've been told multiple times that it seemed i have "infinite ammo" and that i think comes from a major misunderstanding of how main event works from a survivor perspective.
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What part of Trickster's knife is strengthened?
I hope I heard it wrong.
When playing Trickster, I often see Survivors get so focused on dodging knives that they crash into objects, walls, etc., but I think they're just in a hurry because they don't know how to chase. Masu.
You wouldn't know it just by playing against him once.LAMO
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My issue with rework Trickster is that he gets the main event so incredibly quickly and often, it feels like it's more or less what he's all about now. And since he's so fast, he can easily close the gap around loops enough to get an injury with his knives and then he's more or less straight into main event. If you stay at the loop, he'll either smack you with his bat and you're dead, or you leave the loop and get shredded by main event anyway. He can get some really fast downs. Old Trickster could do the same, but at least you felt like you had a chance to gain some distance around corners with his slower speed and the fact that his knives took time to ramp up to full speed. It's entirely possible I'm just hopeless at versing this Killer (I've never had much chance against this Killer), but judging by my teammates, they're not much better either.
All that said, I think they probably did need to buff his main event in some way. It felt kinda useless. I would get main event maybe once or twice in a trial and never when I actually wanted it. But this feels like a little too much to me.
Old Trickster's increasing knife speed is one thing I especially miss about him. I really liked how his blades would gradually pick up throwing speed as he sounded more and more excited. It was such a great combination of sound design and game play and it enhanced the experience of playing him. Now they're a steady speed and it feels kinda... bad? I don't know, I can't really articulate what my problem is. I just feel like he's lost something in this re-work and I can't fully explain what it is.
I'm not knowledgeable about this Killer or good with numbers and I was never very good with him (had plenty of 0-2K games). He's just one that I would occasionally play because he had a fun power and I like his vibe, look, lore and sound design. So I don't know how to fix him or buff him in a way that is fun for both sides. I just know that I don't find him fun to verse or play as anymore.
I think I would have been happy with old Trickster's throwing knives (minus the recoil), a slightly easier to activate main event and a 4.6 movement speed. Whether that's too strong or too weak a change, I don't know.
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I agree with pretty much all of this, in addition Trickster feels like he's simply lost his identity as a ranged killer. His overall sound design seems to have been lost to time and eradicated with bugs. Ramping i believe had a soundfile attached to it that gave the huffing sounds associated with the ramp up.
Its not very clear what the goal is in 1v1 from survivor besides focusing on either one of the options, but eventually the opposite side will always kill you in the end. 4.6 feels less interesting for a variety of reasons but mostly it just feels like he's lost his overall character identity for the sake of forcing his kit onto a wider audience that I don't believe ever wanted to play the killer in the first place.
I'm a ranged killer enthusiast, and Trickster no longer feels ranged.
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This isn't even just frustration from the survivors perspective btw, if you want to choose the "correct option" as Trickster, whether that be m1 or m2, you first have to go through a 10 page checklist to determine if the knives lose value, if they do then you have to m1 or concede that you're playing inoptimal because you like the knives.
I love using the knives, and having to force myself to give up on them should never be where we are on the design. If a survivor runs a shack or main building tile at peak play then you cannot use your power and that's such a bad feeling. It gives you the feeling of that survivor having taken your power from you.
Not just that but if you accidentally make the wrong choice, you have either lost a main event or you have lost distance. There's zero incentivization for being really good at knives if you can just bait people to focus on adjusting for knives and then forcing an m1. This is the core of why the addons now feel lackluster. The base-kit relies on m1 or optimal main event usage, which creates a "samey" gameplay loop which deteriorates any hard work that people had previously put into making the base power good based on love for the kit.
Main event happens too much, the non main-event knives feel weaker than m1 and the killer never ever can be lost in chase barring a stealth perk. Enabling a tunneling machine of a killer with no soul left to speak of. I have thousands of hours in Trickster and I play this killer 10+ hrs a day and have whenever I am not taking a break. This design came at a time where I felt really hyped to come back to DBD and I've been trying desperately to like this version as much as the old version - I cannot enjoy this version nearly as much as I enjoyed 6 knife or even 4.4 8 knife trickster. This is for a variety of reasons, but ultimately the knives have lost their oomph. I no longer feel like the knives have any heft to them and that makes them feel meaningless to throw.
I wish I had the energy to keep ranting about how much I dislike not being able to pressure people at range anymore but I'm just tired and I've been posting on the forums almost every day in hopes that we get changes that bring him back in line with what we were originally given a few years ago. I'm losing hope on any changes coming, and I may have to just shelve Trickster - It's devastating.
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Main event is how Trickster is supposed to pressure survivors at range. Against survivors that know how to micro dodge knives, main event is the only practical way to do this because it doesn’t use up ammo.
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Popping main event at range is a death sentence barring very very restricted cirumstances, you lock yourself to 3.86 m/s with a required 3 second buffer if you want to stop it for any reason. I'm referring to his default pressure and the fact of the matter is needing main event to actually pressure 20-24 meters with no guaranteed injure is overtly restrictive and prevents them from allowing 4.6 to have strong knives.
Needing to unlock your ranged ability prevents this killer from pressuring multiple survivors, thus people can just do gens near chase so long as they have a strong tile nearby and the Trickster is required to stop pressure on chase in order to swap. Previously popping a survivor with a few knives was enough to threaten an injure state, not so much anymore as even with 2 knives hit on a survivor you're unlikely to grab a health state if they have cover. Then you're left with a decision, let survivors do gens near you and attempt to create a snowball (of which you are not the best killer to be creating due to main events time efficiency being poor in terms of math) or let people do gens in your face because the target swap is an inherent timeloss as-is.
Meanwhile any other ranged variant killer snaps a shot up at a high gen, for example dead dog main gen, and gets an injure off of it with very meager time investment. Trickster needs to run all the way up and then he's in one of his weakest tiles in the entire game, in my opinion that means he isn't able to pressure ranged because the sunk cost of main event usage is overtly punishing if it doesn't kill.
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I watch you on Twitch, im sad about Trickster, and im genuinely thinking stop to play him. im trying a lot but, before the rework his power was very fair and solid, now hes lost his identity and 8 knifes is so much paiful to play. Im thiking stop play as Trickster and back only hes back to 6 knifes to injured ( that was perfect). This rework was a mistake.
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I'm honestly also at a point where my thoughts are going all over the place.
I consider to stop maining Trickster. Yesterday I played some games on him again (after a 5d break of DbD) and noticed a lot more, how his knifes are basically not useful/fun anymore. But I also honestly have no idea what to opt for yet.
Somehow I'd love to go for nurse, just because so many Survivors I faced are like "Trickster is trash, play a real killer", but at the same time I'm still more interested in ranged killers, so the ones that are left now, Huntress, Artist, Slinger.
Or maybe I just stop playing DbD at all. Trickster was the reason I started playing it at the first place.
Nothing set in stone yet, but as he is now, he's literally relying on addons on a level that's not okay. But hey, took Onryo mains only 6 month to get their main rolled back...
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Sadly trickster has kind of fell off for me. It's back to feeling like how trickster was originally when his knives took 8 laceration, his power doesn't feel worth using most of the time.
4.6m/s and no recoil were great changes that made him much less frustrating to play but his power feels weak again. Except for main event but survivors are getting better at playing around it now.
Not sure what to suggest but i hope to see more changes for him in the future.
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Hey Trickster Community and BHVR,
So...I made another forum post. Actually 2, one to go to bug reporting, but one for open discussion, and because its feedback on the sound quality of Trickster at current versus Trickster at launch, and just an overall how I feel about the sound quality for Trickster at current. I wasn't there for Trickster's launch, but from watching videos, there's a lot that it feels we are missing out on sound-wise. I just wanted to share the comparison I did. I made some very short clips into a playlist on Youtube.
Here is the link to the Feedback and Forum post I made: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403285/tricksters-sound-and-audio-design-the-good-the-bad-and-the-bhvr-what-is-this/p1?new=1
It shows clips for different sound designs that I think are missing or that are better. How sfx's was affected by animation and basekit changes. If you have opinions or clips of your own to show anything to do with comparing old Trickster audio and sound design to now...feel free to check the forum out and add to it. I tried to look at everything people have been complaining about.
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But, if you have clips of just audio bugs and dont really care about the sound design of old or current. I did also post a version of this post in the bug section, to focus on bugs rather than the feedback.
If you want to add to just bug-related issues and not feedback related then this is the link for that post: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/403289/current-trickster-audio-and-animation-issues-this-is-a-mixture-of-feedback-and-bug-reporting#latest
(I mentioned the wink being missing from lobby)
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I'd much rather have the current Trickster's sounds, than previous Trickster's sounds. I absolutely hate hate hate when killers have loud noises, that make it difficult to hear survivor noises, and previous Trickster was all that.
It's bad enough we have to suffer through purposely loud chase music, and purposely bad sound occlusion. I don't want to hear killers make unnecessary noises, that might make it more difficult to hear other nearby survivors that might be running around with flashlights or flashbangs. Or if survivors break line of sight while a knife is in the air, I don't want Trickster (or his knives) to make unnecessary noises that might make it more difficult to hear where the survivor is going after they break line of sight.
If I have to choose between "killer immersion" and "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight", then I'm absolutely choosing "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight".
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The forum is deleting comments as I try to post them. So this may show up 3 times. Let me try posting it this way:
So no voice lines, and no feedback loop for you? I mean I guess, but I'm also not asking for anything crazy like flashbang noises lol. We are talking about fixing his voicelines, syncing animation, and feedback sfx. If you need to hear where survivors are and you are in the middle of Main Event....I would say maybe you are using Main Event too early? If you dont see them right in front of you and need to hear where they are.... I cant think of any reason why you need it quiet to hear a survivor while using Main Event. Also the Reverb wasn't loud...it was subtle and eerie.
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Anything that adds extra noises, or more variable noises, is a nerf, because it makes it more difficult to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight. It doesn't matter if it subtle... it's still an extra layer of noise that hides survivor noises. And I don't think killers should talk at all during a game, because that can hide survivor noises too.
I always want to be aware of any survivors that might be near the killer. Maybe I'm chasing someone, and another survivor is hiding nearby. Maybe they're hiding nearby with a flashlight, and I need to be aware someone might try to interrupt me picking a survivor up. Maybe they're just plain hiding, but they are in a worse spot than the person I'm chasing, so I might want to switch to the hiding survivor. Sound occlusion is way overtuned in this game, and can extremely muffle noises... and any sort of extra noises from Trickster might mean the difference between hearing a survivor, and not being able to hear a survivor.
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Well, that sounds like a more competitive type of gameplay... I understand what you mean about some noises overturned, like the bloodweb, but thats not gameplay, or Spies of the Shadows notification being the same as an unhooking notification....but thats more of "why are all notifications the same and same volume?"..... I can't comment on your opinion being wrong or right, but you are the first person Ive heard say they'd rather Trickster be silent.
This game is still a horror game. I know it has a very competitive side, with people calling out sectors that gens are in or changing the brightness so they can see better, just to be more competitive, and I guess we can include sound in that now. Maybe you would prefer to only hear survivors breathing and footsteps nothing else, but I definitely would not like that...I think Call of Duty has an "addon" that gives the player an advantage of muting all other sounds in the game except the opponent's footsteps........Again, its not that type of game, unless you are doing comp.
Say you could adjust sounds, which Im not saying is a bad thing, but could be an extreme advantage if overturned. I have to admit playing a game purely for competitive reasons is not that appealing for me personally. I enjoy the aesthetics and feel of a game just as much as the gameplay. I enjoy the sound of blades landing on a survivor (its music practically) I enjoy Tricksters laughter when he downs more than one person (I literally laugh every time I hear him laugh that way)....and his voice lines after being stunned, when he calls someone a motherf*cker (takes the words right out of my mouth), as well as other killers voice lines too. Singularity has good ones, and Chucky is kind of funny. I love the chase music of some of these killers too, from their POV and survivor POV. Sound design is just as important as character design. IMO.
Again, it sounds like you want no immersion sound, only competitive-driven sounds...even if you weren't asking for that extreme, most of the people I know enjoy Trickster sfx and voice lines. Luckily his music isn't too loud when you are chasing someone, unlike some killers, like Ghostface. So at least there is that. I dont think it should all go away but I am sorry that it's an annoyance for you.
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I literally just want BHVR to stop making chase music purposely loud to hide survivor noises, and for them to stop make sound occlusion hide survivor noises as much as they do...... and for survivor noises to actually be consistent, because we all know some survivors make quiet vocal noises, and some cosmetics make quiet footstep noises, and it’s awful.
This game has such a garbage quality of life for killers, with anything involving hearing important noises, and we don’t need to make it worse just for the sake of killer immersion.
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So no voice lines, and no feedback loop for you? I mean I guess, but I'm also not asking for anything crazy like flashbang noises lol. We are talking about fixing his voicelines, syncing animation, and feedback sfx. If you need to hear where survivors are and you are in the middle of Main Event....I would say maybe you are using Main Event too early? If you dont see them right in front of you and need to hear where they are.... I cant think of any reason why you need it quiet to hear a survivor while using Main Event. Also the Reverb wasn't loud...it was subtle and eerie.
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What I'm about to say is gonna sound very controversial and might not be the most fun idea for everyone here but I wanted to suggest it nonetheless, so basically...
one big knife.
as an add-on :)
The more elaborated idea is that it replaces main event with a high wind-up singular knife that full injures or just downs (idk im not an expert in game balance so i'll leave that up to whatever they think is best), like it's just so silly to me that I'd like to see it be implemented as a funny little add-on you could run.
Also I think it would help a lot if main event didn't just spring on people with no warning that the trickster was holding it, maybe some map-wide sound clip that plays when he finishes charging it?
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I thought I would also take a second to break down VISUALLY exactly what I find as a missed opportunity with Laceration meter decay and what gives so much negative feedback on a system that could be elaborated on without TOO MUCH WORK.
Video of my visual description: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2050469846
BHVR please consider that this meter could be changed without any unwanted balance problems on the side of Trickster or the survivors, QOL is the name of the game with the figuring out of what can be done. I want to do my best to elaborate on how to play against Trickster without removing the guts of this character.
The big problem that this would solve is the misunderstanding of "Dodging knives" as opposed to breaking "line of sight" I acknowledge that Killers aren't going to be super known about in all cases but I believe a utilization of visuals that shows survivors when they are doing the correct thing more clearly would give a better "evergreen" experience for people who might not understand how EXACTLY the knives work.
This is accompanied by a bugfix to the laceration screen effect on survivors end, but also has design implications talking about WHEN Tricksters meter goes down, as well as how long it takes to reach 0 after the decay begins. Thanks!
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BHVR, to go along with this...there are quite a few BUZZWORDS that people are not articulating well and I am afraid will be misinterpreted. For example "spamming". A lot of people dont understand Tricksters power or how to counter it. So what Rev is suggesting is not about nerfing or taking time away from laceration decay overall, hell you can add to the time to decay overall, if there is meaningful feedback a survivor can use to counter like what Rev is suggesting.
His Main Event being called spamming concerns me, which people dont understand that is his snap pressure, one in which he needs. Especially to deal with shack, and strong tiles. They say spamming, but its really his insta down thats not instant it. Its his Overdrive, his rush, or iri hatchet, that can down you very quickly but not as quick as other killers with one shot. It still provides people with an opportunity to get away, while being still lethal enough to be a "special" power. So when people say spamming I think they are lacking understanding in how Trickster works in general. Which is why I urge you to take a look at the Audio and sfx bugs/feedback I reported. Some of those subtle things like Laceration lines appearing one at a time and falling off one at time, on the survivor hud is crucial feedback for the survivor and can even be improved like Rev said. Hearing his knives that feint subtle whoosing through the air, can tell a survivor hey...this guy is missing a lot, without having to look behind them. Main Event with its distinct reverb that it had before, was an indicator in itself. Subtle, and not obnoxious either but distinct. So fixing Tricksters audio is important for balancing not just quality of life for the Trickster main. You can give indicators to survivors and that wouldn't hurt the Tricksters ability to remain lethal. For other complaints about Trickster from survivors, like how Trickster mains play ruthlessly, honestly, Trickster basekit being strong, is what alleviates the pressure to play the way survivors complain about. But survivors panic when they hear "buff" and dont realize that is to make it so the killer doesn't feel they are locked into certain perks and a set way to play. This isn't just a Trickster issue though Im sure you are aware.
I also think that there is a reason we pick Trickster and not any other character. Everybody who mained him before his recent PTB did not pick him because he was the strongest character or because we cared about winning. We would learn Blight or Nurse then. We picked him because of this character's feel, how it feels to play him, how exciting it is...that includes things like audio and animation bug fixes....that includes his Main Event feeling like a Main Event. The heart and soul is his knives, his flair, and because he was challenging and rewarding character to learn. 4.4 Trickster definitely had that despite frustrations. 4.6 version is easier to use yes...but he is missing something 4.4 had. So making sure that changes stay true to the character and what we love about him is important. Understanding what we love about him is important.
Just wanted to say that since Mandy mentioned they haven't forgotten about Trickster and were still considering things about him.
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Tricksters sound design was probably the best sound design that this game has ever had, trying to entice sound design bugs to remain (while unintentional) for the sake of winning? It's fine if you don't want to be immersed in this game but trying to say that Trickster saying 2 syllable phrases is "hurting your chances of finding a survivor" feels contrarian and along the lines of a hypercompetitive-only-wants-to-win-mentality. You will not always win games, so ripping the guts out of the game just kills the overall atmosphere and enjoyment.
Respectfully I'm a fan of my killers having sound depth, personality and artistic design. I don't remember ever losing a survivor because I got a voiceline while stunned, reloading, or having someone wiggle off my shoulder. and I play this game a lot and watch a ton of VODS of this character in competitive settings.
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This is a PvP game. Yes I'm trying to win. There's nothing wrong with trying to win in a PvP game.
I'm not trying to "rip the guts out of the game". I'm wanting this character to be as good as he can be, for actually winning games. Yes this is a valid viewpoint.
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Yes but our point is that you are trying to prevent something that gives enjoyment and soul to the overall character, not touch his basekit, at the 1% chance it give you an advantage. And thats why we are saying this.
I would watch vods of competitive Trickster Mains then. Maybe ask Wacek if he ever felt the sound got in his way of his 252 winstreak....as 4.4 Trickster. It didn't seem that he had issues with winning when Tricksters sounds were present. And Revvium here has been playing Trickster so long, that he can listen to music while playing him and still win. I cant do that, because Im still learning and inexperienced, so I need to focus when playing Trickster, because I'm in experienced. But for me, no immersion is soul-sucking and voicelines and sfx depth with this character are what made me and many Trickster Mains I know fall in love with this character. Hell you can even hear Otz excitement when this character came out, and when he heard him laugh. It was an overall feel of the character. So yes everybody's opinion is valid, but maybe your opinion is coming from an angle that you dont realize is the issue. Maybe as you go and learn, you will be able to predict survivor movement and wont feel you need any and every advantage to get the wins with Trickster. Cause you could always get wins and do well with this character even as 4.4, you just needed experience to do so. But even if you dont have the experience, and lose a lot, most people love this character, for the feel of playing him not because hes a winner. We all played him as 4.4 Trickster, some played the original launch Trickster...lol, you had to love more about him than wins cause if that was the case...why didn't we just learn and main Blight, or Nurse then?
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You should look into Playstation's playtesting. The passionate feedback you give would be wanted, and they pay pretty good for it. Ive done it many times. I dont know...but it just dawned on me. lol
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Streamers are sometimes the worst people to ask for opinions, because many of them are dramatic on purpose, and release dramatic clickbait videos, just to get clicks. And some of them throw entire games away for Youtube montages. And saying words like "most Trickster players" is misleading, because you really don't have a representative sample of the players.
If the sound really is just a "immersion experience", then give me a volume slider to turn off voice lines, and give me a volume slider to lower the volume of killer sound effects.
Also, I'm still a Blight and Nurse main. And yes, their repetitive noises are obnoxious too, and I wish I could volume slider them much lower. The difference is that Blight and Nurse are currently stuck with their garbage loud noises, but Trickster currently isn't stuck with garbage loud noises. So there is actual hope BHVR can keep Trickster at his currently good sound levels.
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