The Trickster Feedback

4 blades a second with 6 knives to lacerate would be absolutely HORRIBLE to play against, so having it 3 a second with 6 laceration is a better spot overall.

Trickster is better than his worst, but The best time was when I was injured by the previous 6 knives.

Since this is an ongoing process of improvement, Im sure opinions are going to evolve. I think mine have some, along with me familiarizing myself with this version of Trickster.

I was trying different add-ons, including Memento Blades. Started formulating Ideas, and shared those ideas with other Trickster Mains....Heres some of my/our thoughts.

- Memento Blades

From what I have seen from both my games and others with different skill experiences, the value of Memento Blades at 10% will vary. I still think at best, baking in half would be better than the whole 10. I dont think this add-on is worth existing as only a 5% increase of blades alone. Im not sure on this one.

A lot of competitive top Tricksters will feel this is an advantage or that it changes the outcome of their game, and is not necessary, because of their accuracy and other skills they can utilize during the match.

Newer players might feel it's essential because they tried it and don’t have experience without it.

While maybe more casual or casual-competitive Tricksters might not think it's necessary, but that it just feels good.

It’s a faster down for sure, more cushion for mistakes in other areas that the player may make during the match.

I think it feels good, but it still doesn’t feel worth running to me. I find it under stimulating. Plus, I find other add-ons more needed. Which brings me to the next add-on…

-Tequila Moonrock

I am married to this add-on. I don’t want to be married. I'd like a divorce….but I can't afford it.

I feel codependent to this add-on because of my play style, which is more of hitting survivors when they don’t expect me to take shots… So more in that mid to just before “You shouldn’t be wasting knives, they are too far, laceration will decay…” kind of distance. Not all the time, but I do like using Main Event in unexpected ways. When they think they are safe, or when they perhaps got a bit of speed boost from injury and I pop it as they run away. It's very risky, but its usually when survivors start running in a straight line, when they they think they are safe to stay in the open, at a distance.

There are certain unexpected ways to use Main Event, but I can't do that without a longer duration. I can’t moonwalk to mindgame with Main Event either, when its too short. Which requires you throwing blades at the ground before turning to surprise them with Main Event. Endzej has an example of that in the Google Doc. Im not sure BHVR ever opened it, but for the communities sake, if you want to know what moonwalking with Main Event looks like, it is there in the Goodle Doc, earlier in the forum.

Even with tying longer Main Event as a reward to Combo system, not having Main Event longer as basekit feels limiting. Moonwalking with Main Event is extremely useful in high tiles, one of Trickster's weakest areas.

Joystick makes Main Event inherently harder to control than on PC (I’ve tested both) too. So naturally you may miss some knives at the start of Main Event before positioning correctly or even if the survivor is weaving. So longer feels better for a controller for that reason, but its nothing I would boycott over, it’s a byproduct win if it was to be extended base kit.

 Also, I don’t like the idea of having to only be right on the survivor's toosh to use all of my Main Event on them, it feels cheap. I like the surprise attack or variety use of a bit longer Main Event.

Suggestions:

 I know Main Event can't be too long…not with this Trickster.

So how about this:

 -Roll some of Tequila Moonrock percentage into base kit

 -Some of it into Combo Scoring that makes Main Event longer, based on accuracy

 -Then make Tequila Moonrock add-on a lower percentage

This gives an option to run Tequila Moonrock if your aim isn’t good enough to get the benefit from Combo Score as a Main Event extender.  While allowing Main Event to feel viable enough without Main Event Extenders,  and even if they miss and mess up Combo Score, they still have some extra duration at base kit, and some creative ways to use Main Event.

Tier list of longer main event would be- Best/Longest- Combo score, Second Best- Tequila, Third Best- Base kit

Combo Score- Main Event Extender

With Combo score being incentivized with a bigger payoff for accuracy, like Revvium suggested (he has numbers for this system on his post) this also incentives not having to feel “married” to Tequila, bringing more value to other add-ons that are more creative and promote different playstyles. (If other add-ons are improved than the current state that is... ).

You would probably need to still buff the Combo system beyond dividing up Tequila to be honest, to fit Rev's idea, and make it worth the reward of accuracy.

-I think the longest and best way to extend Main Event should be the reward system for accuracy, so Combo Score System.

-Trick blades

They are my new go-to add-on that’s different and exciting among the many flat an outdated feeling addons, with New Trickster. Trick Blades helps save time in chases that inevitably end in a pallet or obstacle that a survivor can use to waste a lot of time… which despite Trickster being 4.6, does not give him a huge advantage when using your power at strong tiles/obstacles.

I saw some suggestions about extra bounces or that the current extra bounce is too op or something like that. I play against Tricksters a lot in customs, and I never felt that the random blade that might have hit me or downed me was too op, just because its rare. Just knowing a Trickster has Trick blades (easy to tell) means I can adjust how I take chase or take cover. A lot of survivors will sit in place even after the first blade bounces off the wall and hits them, until they are down.

It is RNG dependent, it is not always consistent, unless you have it mastered or have tested every specific area of that specific map ahead of time ….It is not even close to being op for 99 percent of Tricksters, except Mr. Meow.

Suggestions:

A little nervous to give this suggestion for this add-on, since it is fine and the best overall add-on.

But like Edge of Revival Album, there is a certain amount of experimentation with these add-ons that you feel less inclined to take, because you are at 44 knives and 8 knives to injure/16 to down.

-Adding extra blades attached to this add-on. Maybe 8, or since it is a purple add-on maybe 10. I will leave that up to debate.

 (not too many that might encourage spamming, but enough to allow some experimental shots)

-Edge of Revival Album

I started using this when I first started playing Trickster 5 or 6 months ago. I stopped using it for dumb reasons (Was told it was what you use when you can't aim), but recently tried it again with this Trickster. I really like this add-on, but given that we are at 8 knives to injure, I feel it could use some buffs.

 It is actually pretty useful for controller players especially. You are going to miss some shots at tiles and with good survivors, so you can aim near them and the building laceration will push them out from behind an obstacle into the open where you can down them.

You can aim at the feet with weaving survivors, and build up lacerations if you do infact miss some shots. This might pscyhe them out thus straightening them out to make it easier to shoot them. Again good for controller players.

But I do think it could use a buff or some extra flare. I like Revvium's idea, I think it was to extend the radius of the splash damage a bit.

 Suggestions:

-Slightly bigger splash damage radius

and/or

-Adding extra blades attached to this add-on. Since it is a purple add-on maybe 10.

Especially since inherently Album is going to use more experimental blades, or blades to push out survivors. I feel more confident about suggesting extra blades here.

-Boa and Trick Pouch

Suggestions:

-I feel like it could use some more knives. The lacerations meter went up, why are these still the same?

This gives these add-ons more value because of the suggestions for Trick Blades and Edge of Revival Album (extra blades).

It also will allow the current default amount to stay at that symbolic 44 Knives, which 4 being associated with death, but offering more blades for this current Trickster who has a higher knife-injure ratio now through add-ons.

It would be cool to see someone run both Boa and Trick Pouch, and forgo any other advantage but just have extra blades. Could be its own playstyle.

-Waiting For You Watch

I didn’t try this one for long with this Trickster, just because I get more value for my playstyle with Tequila. It was usually end game, or with survivors who haven’t learned how to counter Trickster yet, who grouped up for an unhooking (the worst thing you can do) that Stopwatch really shined. But once you start going against people who know how to counter Trickster Stopwatch doesn’t really shine as much anymore. If they are good at breaking LOS, it starts to depreciate its value. But it can be very lethal if survivors do group up.

Suggestions:

During one Endzej’s recent streams, who is a prominent Trickster Main In the Trickster Community, had also Wacek, top winstreak Trickster Player and Revvium who is another well established Trickster main In the community, had a whole podcast brainstorming ideas for add-ons and just creative things to do with Trickster for a few hours.

One of those ideas was assigning different colors of blades to certain add-ons. Apparently, this is something the community has asked for before, for cosmetics having different colored blades.

So….With Stopwatch and its lethality:

-Maybe it would help if the blades were a different color that survivors could at least see visually, and tell themselves “hey, this is that dangerous af add-on that we absolutely can not group up with or need to scatter like rats if we are found.” Then the survivors would at least know they shouldn’t body block based on the color of blades they see.

Maybe then we could be more lenient with Stopwatch if there is more active counterplay. Then its current lethality is less of threat…And a visual que would be fun for survivors to have to look out for. Using more brain and strategy. Maybe it still needs a tiny nerf, but I think with counterplay it could be fine as is.

-Cut Thru U Single

It's not going to get a lot of value as is. Just not that often that you are going to find survivors who body block, and even if you found a match where you got more value out of this…by itself Cut Thru U Single feels meh. I want it to be exciting and worth its weight in slot space….

Again, the knife-to-injure count went up, so this add-on should be adjusted.

Suggestions:

-Revvium suggested a full laceration for the next survivor hit. I would add, that it does an effect as well.

-The second knife to hit the second survivor, causes deep wound on them. So if they do get away, they need to mend. Cut Thru U Single is very situational, so I think high reward is okay to have. It also adds some unique pressure for more than just 1v1. As Trickster is strong in 1v1, but if 3 survivors are doing gens at a time elsewhere, it doesn’t matter how strong he is in a 1v1.

-Death Throes Compilation

I enjoy this add-on. It is the one I go to when not using Trick Blades, and works well with Tequila Moonrock.

Suggestions:

You could probably be more creative here, maybe this is where it causes nearby survivors to scream when Main Event is used on a survivor, with this add-on. Maybe it causes blindness too *nudge nudge*.

As an Iri, it just feels like it needs more punch.

-Diamond Cufflinks

Another one of my most used and go-to add-ons that I love, Is Cufflinks. I would use it to make more flashy shots…sometimes longer shots or snipes. But it feels like it has less synergy or maybe it just needs more now with New Trickster (because of knife to injure/knife count/Main Event etc…).

Not to encourage any notion of making Trickster like Huntress, by taking longer snipes and hole shots. I don’t want Huntress 2.0, but the *cool factor* of this character is snipes sometimes. It's what makes him look stronger than he is, and feeds content creators with content with compilation clips. But it's not an efficient way to play Trickster and competitively you probably wouldn’t take too many of those shots. With that acknowledged, I like the idea of rewarded longer snipes. I was talking with Revvium on this one, and the idea of incentivizing snipes through add-ons can nurture anyone who wants to play Trickster that way.

Suggestions:

-Survivors hit at a certain distance away (this needs to be tested) gets 2 laceration meters.

How this would balance out-

If you hit a survivor at a longer distance away, they are going to go for cover of course, but you still need to catch up. If they run to cover (which they probably will) that prevents further lacerations, and by the time you catch up, maybe the second laceration might have decayed, but you will be rewarded with a remaining laceration. So you still have progress on them. And doesn’t feel like the shot is totally wasted for sniping.

If they remain in the open, and you can manage to hit them from far way 3 more times, with them swerving, you down them. Then you are rewarded for the snipe. (This would be a nice flex for anyone not using crosshair)

This could be an add-on on its own, but I thought since Diamond Cufflinks is the go to add-on for hole shots. Maybe it can have an attached incentive for long snipes too.

I am still thinking on the other add-ons...

I think the key with Tricksters add-ons is to actually buff them, be creative, and add some flare while being a functional asset. Being too afraid of being too strong is underserved because this killer is very counter-able, and it will be a matter of time when survivors stop DC’ing and actually learn to counter him. Because again strong in 1v1 doesn’t mean a killer is going to win.

The point of taking chases or being chased by any killer….is not to escape chase. It's to waste as much time before you go down. And that depends on how much you are willing to learn about each killer and each add-on they might have. Creating variety in gameplay and counter-gameplay. The killer needs to be able to down a survivor in a relatively short time because of how quick it can take to do a gen. If every survivor could escape every chase, or waste too much of a killer's time because of their weaker basekit or obstacles/tiles, then this game would fall apart. At the same time, if a survivor becomes skilled enough they should be able to waste a killer's time for a while, but not indefinitely… If every add-on of the killer was nerfed or too safe, then the killer gameplay becomes a one-trick pony and predictable. Not fun to go against either. You might as well just call this game Gen Simulator at that point. I think Trickster's add-ons could use a buff.

Overall, this Trickster may be stronger at finding chases, but he is still as weak as how effective he is at snowballing. He is at his strongest when survivors make mistakes and he capitalizes on people's unwillingness to learn how to counter him and accept that the team might make it out, or two might, but they might not. Not every time. I think too often, over altruism and lack of understanding of counterplay results in misinformed complaints and unnecessary nerfs with this killer especially. Make his add-ons strong, creative for this character, and versatile.

Nothing will changes cuz, in developers eyes trickster is alright now.

And no matter if his addons are broken and useless, that ability is trash in most situations.

Main event isnt that thing that u want to see every match.

And trickster shouldnt plays from only main event/

No confirmation, no info, no words.(From devs)

sad

Also when are we getting all the sound and visuals de-bugged? watching back original trickster PTB makes me cry, there's so many good visual and audio effects that have been rendered almost nonexistent which is horrific, i fell in love with this character because of his charm, charm given by his insanely good audio and visual design. Some sound effects i go thousands of games without hearing, and his old "HYUH HYUH HYUH" when ramping up is gone too! it so sad!

I don’t think Trickster has been forgotten. I think his kill rates have stabilized to a much better range, that he’s much easier to use for console, and the bulk of complaints about “reworked Trickster being too overpowered” have stopped.

I think the rework was considered to be successful, and Trickster is on maintenance mode right now. And this is why this post isn’t pinned anymore.

The majority of the complaints are people just wanting the reworked to be reverted. That's not a valid option. We had current Trickster long enough to know he wasn't a good fit for the game.

And visual and audio bugs aren't feedback... they're bug reports.

In the first place, I was in favor of a rework that strengthened Trickster, but

The rework done by BHVR was a bit strange, so

I'm just saying that the previous version was better than that. Please don't get me wrong.

It takes longer to injure a Survivor with a knife than before.

Also, using a knife slows down your legs, so you won't be able to feel how fast you are moving.

I no longer feel the benefits of using a knife.

You might be able to feel the speed if you don't use a knife at all.

However, in such a place, it is just an incompetent M1 killer.

I am faced with a dilemma.

I think if you are injured with 8 knives, you can throw 4 knives per second.

If there are 6 knives, 3 knives will be thrown in 1 second.

I don't think it should be slower than this.

I think BHVR is probably thinking that they can do something with the main event.

In the first place, it is activated after the main event is injured and distanced, so unless you add the main event extension add-on, not only will it be worthless, but the cooldown time will be too long, and the survivors will go somewhere during that time. .

Well, I Just played against my first Trickster since the rework. If his blades are to stay the way they are, then he needs to be nerfed to 4.4 again. I feel like it was a big mistake to buff both his speed and his knives.

Old Trickster didn't have much counter play to begin with, but now he has absolutely none.

I used to play the odd Trickster Killer game, but now I'll never be playing him again. He's just so utterly miserable to face. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets more DCs than The Skull Merchant now.

The knives got nerfed by a large degree compared to 6 knife Trickster so idk how you could come to this conclusion, his time to kill and accuracy needed to keep up pressure has been increased. Old Trickster killed dramatically faster if you got caught out in the open. The only thing that is very dramatically increased is his movement speed, which I'd agree is not a fun addition to the kit on either side.

This version of Trickster is very good at tunneling/sticking onto a survivor forever, there's no escape if he knows where you are.

But the solution is not to nerf the blades, the solution is to reduce his ability to keep up back to the old version and make the power feel better to use by making it stronger whilst adding back more dependency on ammo by making main event take longer to acquire. There's plenty of counterplay against the killer- but it does require key insights that aren't always very clear unless you have good understanding of the power. again another issue that the kit has.

What part of Trickster's knife is strengthened?

I hope I heard it wrong.

When playing Trickster, I often see Survivors get so focused on dodging knives that they crash into objects, walls, etc., but I think they're just in a hurry because they don't know how to chase. Masu.

You wouldn't know it just by playing against him once.LAMO

I agree with pretty much all of this, in addition Trickster feels like he's simply lost his identity as a ranged killer. His overall sound design seems to have been lost to time and eradicated with bugs. Ramping i believe had a soundfile attached to it that gave the huffing sounds associated with the ramp up.

Its not very clear what the goal is in 1v1 from survivor besides focusing on either one of the options, but eventually the opposite side will always kill you in the end. 4.6 feels less interesting for a variety of reasons but mostly it just feels like he's lost his overall character identity for the sake of forcing his kit onto a wider audience that I don't believe ever wanted to play the killer in the first place.

I'm a ranged killer enthusiast, and Trickster no longer feels ranged.

Main event is how Trickster is supposed to pressure survivors at range. Against survivors that know how to micro dodge knives, main event is the only practical way to do this because it doesn’t use up ammo.

I watch you on Twitch, im sad about Trickster, and im genuinely thinking stop to play him. im trying a lot but, before the rework his power was very fair and solid, now hes lost his identity and 8 knifes is so much paiful to play. Im thiking stop play as Trickster and back only hes back to 6 knifes to injured ( that was perfect). This rework was a mistake.

Sadly trickster has kind of fell off for me. It's back to feeling like how trickster was originally when his knives took 8 laceration, his power doesn't feel worth using most of the time.

4.6m/s and no recoil were great changes that made him much less frustrating to play but his power feels weak again. Except for main event but survivors are getting better at playing around it now.

Not sure what to suggest but i hope to see more changes for him in the future.

I'd much rather have the current Trickster's sounds, than previous Trickster's sounds. I absolutely hate hate hate when killers have loud noises, that make it difficult to hear survivor noises, and previous Trickster was all that.

It's bad enough we have to suffer through purposely loud chase music, and purposely bad sound occlusion. I don't want to hear killers make unnecessary noises, that might make it more difficult to hear other nearby survivors that might be running around with flashlights or flashbangs. Or if survivors break line of sight while a knife is in the air, I don't want Trickster (or his knives) to make unnecessary noises that might make it more difficult to hear where the survivor is going after they break line of sight.

If I have to choose between "killer immersion" and "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight", then I'm absolutely choosing "being able to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight".

Anything that adds extra noises, or more variable noises, is a nerf, because it makes it more difficult to hear survivors that aren't in line of sight. It doesn't matter if it subtle... it's still an extra layer of noise that hides survivor noises. And I don't think killers should talk at all during a game, because that can hide survivor noises too.

I always want to be aware of any survivors that might be near the killer. Maybe I'm chasing someone, and another survivor is hiding nearby. Maybe they're hiding nearby with a flashlight, and I need to be aware someone might try to interrupt me picking a survivor up. Maybe they're just plain hiding, but they are in a worse spot than the person I'm chasing, so I might want to switch to the hiding survivor. Sound occlusion is way overtuned in this game, and can extremely muffle noises... and any sort of extra noises from Trickster might mean the difference between hearing a survivor, and not being able to hear a survivor.

I literally just want BHVR to stop making chase music purposely loud to hide survivor noises, and for them to stop make sound occlusion hide survivor noises as much as they do...... and for survivor noises to actually be consistent, because we all know some survivors make quiet vocal noises, and some cosmetics make quiet footstep noises, and it’s awful.

This game has such a garbage quality of life for killers, with anything involving hearing important noises, and we don’t need to make it worse just for the sake of killer immersion.

What I'm about to say is gonna sound very controversial and might not be the most fun idea for everyone here but I wanted to suggest it nonetheless, so basically...

one big knife.

as an add-on :)

The more elaborated idea is that it replaces main event with a high wind-up singular knife that full injures or just downs (idk im not an expert in game balance so i'll leave that up to whatever they think is best), like it's just so silly to me that I'd like to see it be implemented as a funny little add-on you could run.

Also I think it would help a lot if main event didn't just spring on people with no warning that the trickster was holding it, maybe some map-wide sound clip that plays when he finishes charging it?

BHVR, to go along with this...there are quite a few BUZZWORDS that people are not articulating well and I am afraid will be misinterpreted. For example "spamming". A lot of people dont understand Tricksters power or how to counter it. So what Rev is suggesting is not about nerfing or taking time away from laceration decay overall, hell you can add to the time to decay overall, if there is meaningful feedback a survivor can use to counter like what Rev is suggesting.

His Main Event being called spamming concerns me, which people dont understand that is his snap pressure, one in which he needs. Especially to deal with shack, and strong tiles. They say spamming, but its really his insta down thats not instant it. Its his Overdrive, his rush, or iri hatchet, that can down you very quickly but not as quick as other killers with one shot. It still provides people with an opportunity to get away, while being still lethal enough to be a "special" power. So when people say spamming I think they are lacking understanding in how Trickster works in general. Which is why I urge you to take a look at the Audio and sfx bugs/feedback I reported. Some of those subtle things like Laceration lines appearing one at a time and falling off one at time, on the survivor hud is crucial feedback for the survivor and can even be improved like Rev said. Hearing his knives that feint subtle whoosing through the air, can tell a survivor hey...this guy is missing a lot, without having to look behind them. Main Event with its distinct reverb that it had before, was an indicator in itself. Subtle, and not obnoxious either but distinct. So fixing Tricksters audio is important for balancing not just quality of life for the Trickster main. You can give indicators to survivors and that wouldn't hurt the Tricksters ability to remain lethal. For other complaints about Trickster from survivors, like how Trickster mains play ruthlessly, honestly, Trickster basekit being strong, is what alleviates the pressure to play the way survivors complain about. But survivors panic when they hear "buff" and dont realize that is to make it so the killer doesn't feel they are locked into certain perks and a set way to play. This isn't just a Trickster issue though Im sure you are aware.

I also think that there is a reason we pick Trickster and not any other character. Everybody who mained him before his recent PTB did not pick him because he was the strongest character or because we cared about winning. We would learn Blight or Nurse then. We picked him because of this character's feel, how it feels to play him, how exciting it is...that includes things like audio and animation bug fixes....that includes his Main Event feeling like a Main Event. The heart and soul is his knives, his flair, and because he was challenging and rewarding character to learn. 4.4 Trickster definitely had that despite frustrations. 4.6 version is easier to use yes...but he is missing something 4.4 had. So making sure that changes stay true to the character and what we love about him is important. Understanding what we love about him is important.

Just wanted to say that since Mandy mentioned they haven't forgotten about Trickster and were still considering things about him.

This is a PvP game. Yes I'm trying to win. There's nothing wrong with trying to win in a PvP game.

I'm not trying to "rip the guts out of the game". I'm wanting this character to be as good as he can be, for actually winning games. Yes this is a valid viewpoint.

You should look into Playstation's playtesting. The passionate feedback you give would be wanted, and they pay pretty good for it. Ive done it many times. I dont know...but it just dawned on me. lol