The Hillbilly Feedback

not a joke. current chainsaw is too map dependent.

TLDR:

1. Addons are too bugged with extra values and powers to truly give feedback.
2. Chainsaw volume amp is #1 priority before anything else.
3. Maps are still the main problem with anyone's enjoyment in DBD.

I watched a Billy player attempt a hud-shrinked, slowdownless streak using:

• Bamboozle, Enduring, Noed, Lethal Pursuer
• Thompson House Mix & Lo Pro chains

This has brought new things to my attention:

Thompson Mix / Greased Throttle need a recode because of the cooldown they give to BUMPS.

There is no reason that this add-on should have a dual effect of bumps and missed/hit cooldowns when there are add-ons specified for bumps at the same rarity or lower. Until these 4 add ons - bump & cooldown - operate as intended with their numbers and effects, any feedback we give is from a tainted sample.

First priority for BHVR needs to be amping the volume for the chainsaw to old Off Brand Motor Oil levels.

Not enough survivors are getting the necessary heads up to avoid the snipes they are raging the most about. People are discussing that Billy is too oppressive in chase when in reality they are having trouble hearing the chainsaw to give themselves proper positioning to succeed in the chase to begin with. Even with the bugged addons, I believe that Billy is still not as oppressive as people think.

Maps are still a problem for Billy even with the best add on combo + unintended buffs from bugged add ons. The map design team has more work to do, alternatively deleting map offerings altogether.

I watched the streak end on a map offering to Gideon Meat. Granted, the expectation of a killer running 0 slowdowns of any kind is a bit of a niche scenario to say the least. But this speaks to the issue still being as it's always been - consistency with maps for either side affecting gameplay enjoyment. I understand BHVR has the philosophy of no 2 matches being the same, which is fair, and the valleys buoyed by the peaks. And the level of engagement by leaving the map generation so varied from functional to broken on either side. But again, the feedback can't be constructive until BHVR makes it clear their stance on the map design.

"I don't think there is a single killer which benefits from using his power the entire match."

I'll start from the entire roster:

• Nurse
• Huntress
• Hag
• Clown
• Spirit
• Plague
• Demo
• Slinger
• Pyramidhead
• Blight
• Trickster
• Nemesis
• Cenobite
• Artist
• Wesker
• Knight
• Skull Merchant
• Chucky

"I don't think there is a SINGLE killer which benefits from using his power the entire match."

I give you nurse and maybe clown but every other killer has a significant power cooldown or downside. Aside from nurse which probably will forever be the exception on everything none of the killers I named in the last sentence are close to the level billy is at in his current overbuffed broken status.

Literally not a single killer on this list uses their power the whole game like Billy besides Nurse....

Oni's power is very limited and got nerfed so no more nerfs for him. He should be buffed to get his power more easily in the beginning of the match.

Survivor main with Plague in profile. Sure.

I play mainly Kate and Felix. I play solo Q about 80% of the time, but I enjoy playing killer about 20% of the time, Plague and Bubba are my two favourites.

I don't have any "one-side" biaised opinion, and I despise the tribal "Us vs them" postures.

Even if you don't trust me, I'm calling for a basekit killer nerf, that is stronger than what the devs applied (add-ons nerf).

Isn't my suggestion ""survivor sided" in your standards, or do you feel the need to contradict yourself ?

I red that Billy main problem back in the day was the "instasaw". Understand the chainsaw charge time before starting to sprint.

It let very few time for survivors to react. And then they overnerfed him with overheat and add-ons nerf etc.

The cooldown is different, it means now he can recover faster after missing a chainsaw sprint.

Instasaw nerf was justified, but they went way too hard on the nerf back in the day and the killer became very unpopular.

The cooldown nowadays needs a nerf indeed, even if you exaggerate when you say dodging his power means nothing and survivors "die 3 secs later".

Damn that's so dramatic, Billy sounds like a monster compare to Nurse.

Billy's shadow nerf and listed nerf is fair and proper.

A few of the things I noticed:

1. This is the only change listed on the patch notes: cooldown add-ons no longer give bump reduction NOR do they function in overdrive any longer. Meaning when a killer is in overdrive, their cooldown will be buffed from basekit, but they will not outpace Thompson Mix..... So the mythical "spam saw and tailgate" tech you all cried about is no longer as viable because:
2. NOT listed on the patch notes: the missed cooldown saw movement speed got a nerf as well. There was a very small "catch up" boost you got after a missing a saw that put you briefly faster than 115% for like a quarter of a second. That's' gone now. Missing a saw is tangibly more punishing than it was prior to the hotfix.
3. NOT listed on the patch notes: chainsaw audio is fixed. Old off brand motor oil volume is now basekit for survivors, and the volume is fine on the killer side.
4. NOT listed on the patch notes: collision zone was also readjusted to be slightly bigger. This again is a map team problem to help fix, and not just those working on the killer code.

As such, most people are getting used to Billy and making far less complaints, based on how inactive this thread has gotten.

BHVR has fixed the main 2 problems I had with Billy prior - cleaning up his code and fixing his audio cue for survivors. Combine that with the removal of the cooldown movement speed, and slightly enlarging his collision zone, this is a good nerf.

My newer concerns/requests now:

1. BHVR can double the values of his overdrive and collision add ons without issue. If not, combine the values of them and bring back mother's helpers, black grease, big buckle.
2. There needs to be some type of FOV hit box adjustment. The 103 max FOV isn't scaling as well to the hitbox as "default" 87 FOV is. I'm not suggesting to buff the hitbox, but it's not lining up as well with the saw as it should with lower FOV.
3. PLEASE reconsider doubling the values of collision and overdrive values PLEASE.

Excellent job taking the feedback with a grain of salt, BHVR.

Can we bring back his original chainsaw animations?

They looked a lot smoother and better than his current ones?

Here are GIFs of how they looked from Billys and Survivors POV:

Chainsaw Miss Animation:

Chainsaw Hit Animation:

Revving Animation from Survivor POV he used to lean to the side and walk normal when he revs the chainsaw:

Also can his weapon be raised up a bit more from Billys POV especially when he's moving it used to be a bit higher up:

87 FOV:

103 FOV:

Please BHVR do some polishing on his animations thank you.

I fixed it. Also yea I’ve been writing posts about his animations for years and will do more in the future lol. It would probably have a better chance in a separate feedback post because I think they are done with billy.

Billy really can't be expected to be able to M2 survivors outside of the curve range. So if he isn't allowed to zone survivors with his M2, then we're back to Billy only using his chainsaw at close range, unless Billy is trying to travel long distances.

I get why the changes were made, but Billy is boring now, because I would be spending most of the time just walking around in chases, unless I need to travel long distances. At this point, I'd rather just play Wraith instead, since Wraith can travel across indoor maps way easier than Billy can.

THIS UPDATE IS FANTASTIC. I LOVE IT. The new curve window is SO NICE.

But you guys are late to the party and barely figured it out. His cooldown walk speed was shadownerfed last hotfix last week. They just published the changes in this week's patch. And this week they brought back the ability to move after bumping into a wall. I'd say it's a great lateral move that evens the playing field between bumping and cooldown, making it so we're not so afraid to full send saws anymore.

Addons wise, cool down finally got a nerf to where it's not "insufferable" to most people and it doesn't stack anymore with the rest of his code. It's only dissipation that needs to be reworked. Which I'll keep saying:

BHVR can double the values of the idler screw, kickback chains, ragged engine, clogged intake, and off brand motor oil, and they'd be okay. Rework the lesser tiers of those add-ons and we're in business.

The issue was that people were having difficulty making meaningful curves happen with such a small margin for error in overdrive or doom + overdrive. By adding an extra .25 seconds to the curve window, there is now a much more comfy curve frame for all speeds to hit. It's SO good. You just have to practice.

And if you're refusing to practice at this point, you're a being pretty petty about it. We got a massive buff to him with this latest patch, because his extra curve window allows for so much room to correct in overdrive. We now have a more level playing field with his kit to survivors having a louder saw (thankfully) and also an audio prompt as to when his cooldown is up.

All of these updates have made Billy far more viable across different maps, and BHVR is doing an excellent job tuning him down fairly while rewarding us who can adjust on the fly. Sorry that you can't adjust to new things.

I really hope not. I don't think I'll be playing him until this is reverted. If it's not reverted, I guess I no longer get to play my favorite killer.

I'm a surv and Billy main, I've been playing billy for over 2 years and I agree with a lot that's been said here. the inital turn rate increase is problematic.

my biggest issue with this change is that it removes the majority of counterplay that Billy had (and honestly should have), pretty much every loop in the game is unsafe against this version of Billy no matter how you play it. It makes him feel unfun, even unfair to play against. Playing as him also doesn't feel much better, you now require less precision, less timing, less skill to pull off good chainsaw hits, it just doesn't feel rewarding anymore.

Billy was in an almost perfect spot after the 7.5.0 update, all he needed was a little nerf to his cooldown, changing the initial turn rate window was never necessary in my opinion. If you really think buffing this aspect of Billy is a good idea and don't want to revert it then maybe consider making it 0.80 or 0.85 seconds, this would still be a decent buff but it wouldn't be so overtuned.

I honestly think if this change stays it has potential to ruin Billy for a lot of players on BOTH sides and that would be incredibly sad. Billy is one of the most beloved killers in the community, for the people who play him and the people who play against him, please don't take that away from him.

I feel like I've said almost everything I can within the posts I've put here, but I wanted to add some final thoughts, because I've realized what frustrates me most about these changes.

By increasing Billy's turn window, you've given him an "identity crisis". That sounds a little crazy, so let me explain. Before this change, Billy was and always has been a back and forth killer in chase that requires precision and mind games to achieve downs. The buffs you gave him (besides turn window increase) were very needed and much appreciated to bring him into 2024. However, the turn window increase changed how you play vs him and as him.

He is no longer a killer that requires precision / mind games, he is a killer that with barely any practice will achieve most things that GOOD Billy players could do pre-turn window buff and extremely skilled Billys will make him feel as if you are playing verse an insta-down Blight. This is what I mean about identity crisis. I no longer feel as if I'm playing against or AS Billy, I feel like I'm playing as or against Blight. If I had to compare it to something, it's a lot like Adrenaline Vial/Crow Blight (before the nerfs). Use 5 dashes and miss all of them, but you have 2 more + speed to correct your mistake and get a hit. Pretty much everyone hated versing that. With the turn window increase you've effectively removed Billy's skill floor, but gave him "2 more dashes" to correct with if a survivor out plays him, so they are forced to act as if they are versing Blight. This will stop survivors from actually playing tiles, because the most effective way to verse him is pretend to play the tile and disconnect or "crouch tech" him until he either M1s you or walks you down for a back rev.

I did not sign up to main Blight, I mained Billy through all of his suffering, because I enjoyed the satisfaction of being greatly rewarded for precision and mind games, but you've essentially turned him into Blight.

While I know many people that play on Controller are probably celebrating this change, because it makes him insanely easier to play, that's not an excuse for changing Billy's killer identity. This is a band-aid fix that 100% should have been tested on the upcoming PTB and definitely should not be accepted as okay, just so Billy is overall massively easier. I am not trying to gate-keep Billy, I am simply saying that Billy should require skill to do well with, because you have made him strong. Even if you nerfed the rest of his kit, but kept the increased turn window, you do not give him his identity back, because he STILL wouldn't require mind games/precision to get downs and would still be played the exact same way as Blight, but garbage.

I know MANY very skilled controller Billys that could do pretty much every single thing that PC gamers could do with practice, so being on a controller honestly is not an excuse for needing an increased window. While I know that Overdrive is probably much harder to handle on controller, it's not an excuse to completely change how Billy plays / interacts with survivors. This should 100% be addressed with an actual FIX and not a band-aid, so we can work on the sensitivity being more consistent between Overdrive / Non-Overdrive to help everyone, including controller players, but Billy should not lose what makes him BILLY, so another band-aid can be applied like the beamer buffer, because desync caused Flashlights to be almost useless for ages. MOST OF US were getting used to the changing sensitivity. Even if it was a bit frustrating at smaller loops, we were getting muscle memory for every other loop. I don't speak for everyone, obviously, but the vast majority of people I have spoke to would be fine with you going through trial and error to FIX the sensitivity between the two until you find something that works, instead of doing THIS.

I no longer enjoy versing Billy, because I don't feel I'm actually versing BILLY. I have advocated for Billy buffs for years and I fought IN THIS THREAD to stop you from nerfing him, because most of the complaints were people that just did not understand how to verse him, but the turn window is not balanced against the average survivor, and overall just makes him require very little skill while moving him into a top 3/4 killer by those that are medium skill with him. This change in a few weeks will take Billy from a beloved killer to one of the most hated killers and the people that enjoyed playing him, because of the interaction in chase will no longer enjoy playing him (myself included).

Below are some clips of Lynn, a very skilled Billy main with multiple types of add-ons, etc, showing how insane Billy is by increasing this turn window.

I'd also highly suggest reading her replies under it, because she explains why she feels how she does / why this is a bad idea. While people have berated me all weekend on Twitter for saying this, I'm going to repeat - yes, a lot of these could have been "Crouch Tech'd", but an unintended mechanic should NOT be a solution for balancing a killer and even if it was, it does not change that you have 100% changed Billy's game play and skill expression. I know there is probably no chance of you guys ever fixing "Crouch Tech" for Billy/Blight/Demo, but just in case you ever do, I do not want it to be taken into consideration, so he is considered "BALANCED".

Also, I don't know if you're familiar with "DeadlyNaya" on Twitch/Twitter.

She is a survivor main that has spent years advocating for Billy buffs and he has always been her favorite killer to verse. She also has a stream team on Twitch called "Overheated" with literally nothing but skilled Billy mains. She also used to host a podcast on her stream with multiple Billys from different play styles, Base-kit, Competitive, Curve (Doubles Billy), etc, so they could discuss Billy and where he was / what he needed to bring him into 2024, etc. This was HER POST on Twitter earlier about the Billy changes. I don't know how to say this any other way, but when Naya no longer enjoys versing Billy, when all she does is fight for him, perhaps this change shouldn't have happened. PLEASE LISTEN TO YOUR COMMUNITY that just wants Billy to be strong, but balanced and skillful.

In closing, once again, these are the most important things that should happen.

1. Revert the turn window change. It makes him feel unskillful, removes survivor agency in chase due to how early you can curve, and overall is not a good band-aid fix for the sensitivity changing in Overdrive / out of Overdrive
2. Either revert the movement slow down after "miss" & delete a cool down add-on, or keep it how it is, but it does feel pretty bad. C/D add-ons should NOT apply to LoPro pallet break.
3. Revert the new bonk animation, it looks horrible and feels terrible.
4. Make his add-ons not be useless - the only GOOD Overdrive add-on is Off Brand Motor Oil. We don't need a billion add-ons around Overdrive, he needs variety now that we are no longer tied to add-ons. Replace them with older add-ons like, Leafy Mash, Big Buckle, Pig House Gloves, etc. Another suggestion mentioned was making "Cracked Primer Bulb" one health state, but permanent Overdrive.
5. Continue to work on consistent sensitivity between Overdrive/Non Overdrive - again, if you don't want to make Overdrive an ACTIVATION like Main Event, perhaps it's time to consider, especially for our console gamers something like a "power sensitivity" slider, so they can adjust things like Saw Sens/Oni Power during Demon Dash.
6. Please never make a base-kit change like this again without a PTB. I don't know if there are people on the dev team that main/actively play Billy, but if there are, they should have known how absolutely nuts it would be to increase his sensitivity window.

I really hope that I haven't wasted hours upon hours writing feedback and fighting for Billy, so this thread can disappear into the ether, because it's "no longer pinned", but I can't say I'm feeling confident anymore.

Again, thank you for your time, Slow Loris

Is there a way to LOWER the sensitivity when about to sprint?,

Im a new player but i ususally play with very low sensitivity and literally when i rev up and gonna start sprinting if my mouse moves an imperceptible ammount, Hillbilly moves sideways out of control. Is not that I am unable to curve or anyhting, is that it curves on there own if the mosue laser is over a spec of dust :D