The Hillbilly Feedback
Comments
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Thank you behavior you made a great rework for Billy, please give Onryo some love now!
Post edited by jonifire on0 -
Shock therapy doesn't down you if it hits you. It doesn't even injure you. It also doesn't make the doctor run across the entire map in a few seconds. Hillbilly's chainsaw puts you into the dying state after 1 hit. When you're in chase and the only thing you're left to deal with is infinite chainsaw sprints it gets old very fast. Dodging Hillbilly before was meaningful and eventually led to him using his basic attack. Now its just endless chainsaws.
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Even before he was buffed (when the miss cooldown was too punishing) his power was still good for mobility. Rebalancing the cooldown isn't going to change that. It's not a little above average, it's way above average and doesn't leave any room for survivors to take advantage of mistakes.
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He plays the same as before he’s really not that different. The only issue he has is his cooldown recovery addons. Those are what needs to be toned down a lot. They made the overdrive mechanic because they want people to use the chainsaw a lot more.
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Ah yes, before addressing ur comment, I want to leave some stats so maybe u can understand where I’m coming from. Billy was the 3rd least played killer, and had the lowest win rate in game. This has 2 primary reasons. Lack of lethality and Being far too punishing for it to be appealing to newer players. Billy reduced cooldowns help with both of those problems, and since he was one of the worst killer stats wise he should been getting significant buffs. And one more things, yes he always had above average mobility but he still was terrible at catching up thanks to his overkill cooldown, cooldown addons should MAYBE be reviewed but he’s basekit is PERFECTLY fine as it’s stands.
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i faced the new billy today and the team got destroyed in a few minutes. he got overbuffed, running too fast, missing recovery too short and the curve are insane. he can run around a entire loop to get you. he is way too overwhelming now.
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To be clear, I agree the old cooldown was bad and was a little too much. It should not go back to what it was before. I just want a middleground is all.
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As I said. It’s to early to tell, but if anything the addons should be toned down or reworked, let’s just give time to thing settle in before :)
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This is terrible feedback. BHVR made a killer's power viable and the response is to say : "I want the power instead to be useless" without any further elaboration other than you enjoyed things when they were easier for your end.
Basekit, the cooldown is fine. Even with the overdrive window, it's fine. Same with the base collision stun and overdrive collision stun. I suggest that people learn how to play against Billy and keep in mind the changes that were made rather than taking chases like he's still old billy.
If cooldown add ons are problematic, I would suggest BHVR replace them with mother's helpers and black grease. I think that it's important to have a chase style add on to help add variety to builds and playstyles, and reintroducing those would help alleviate the concerns that saws are no longer "rewarding" to dodge.
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I get that he was at a weak state but this is a little bit broken. He should have at least 40 meters terror radius because you barely get a chance to react once overdrive hits
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I think his turning speed needs to be buffed. I'm finding it hard to curve around objects. I ran both of the turning increase addons and I feel like they do nothing and his turning is still extremely slow. That's baffling considering both addons result in a 75% increase, which is a massive percentage. He should be able to turn 45 degrees base kit.
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But he can do 90•, try using Q and E to see if it helps, also set ur mouse sensibility in game to 100%
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This is a change I’m not particularly against, in my opinion Blight, Billy, and oni in power should all have 40m, I would like to see it been made into a pattern. Although I’m not sure on the implications of it, it doesn’t seem to matter that much to weaker, in fact it seems to benefit at times, but Billy is FAR from broken, learning counter play is always important though;)
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I don't know for how long youve been playing but you are quite repetitive. If we would buff every killer to work on his worst map all killers would be absolutely broken. If you're having a hard time with Billy maybe he is just not for you. Sometimes killer and their power do not work with us as a person and the way we play.
His cooldown is too forgiving and the argument that he bumps into clutter on maps does not erease that fact. Once his overdrive hits he can travel the map in a matter of a few seconds. Not even enough time to react/run away if it's a gen in the open.
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Yea, but the Hillbilly's chainsaw feels like his basic attack with how often its used now but it puts you in the dying state instead of injuring you. There doesn't seem to be a balance there. It just seems excessive now.
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90 degrees after the initial window with high turning speed?
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Add cooldown to missing chainsaw hits and remove the addons that reduce the penalty. Even the Xenomorph has more cooldown for missing hits and isn’t an insta-down killer lol
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The cooldown is way to short and forgiving. If you manage to dodge a hit you don't make enough distance to get anywhere. Last game I dodged 3 attacks in a row but didn't gain enough distance to make it to shack even though it was right next to me. I couldn't reach it.
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Did the cooldown addons get nerfed? They both say "does not apply in overdrive", but I don't remember them saying that during the PTB?
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I just had 3 matches today. The cooldown is way to forgiving. If you dodge the chainsaw hes right behind you a second later. There is no room to reach a pallet or window. Even if, the pallet cooldown is pretty forgiving too. With the new fov corner techs are harder so thats not gonna work either. I managed to dodge his chainsaw 3 times in a row but he was still so close that I could not reach any tile or resource. So I think it's fair to say, there is no real counterplay besides hiding with distortion.
A pattern for high mobility killer to have 40 meter terror radius is a fine idea
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As a survivor main he is REALLY op, barely any oppotunity to escape him now. I agree he needed a buff, but he got overbuffed to a point where it's unplayable.
He's way to fast even without addons/perks! He misses? dont worry he will down you anyway in 1 second...
He misses his chainsaw? Nah dude thats not possible as it feels like he's just as manouvreble as the survivors while running 3 times the speed!!
No way as a survivor to outplay/escape/counterplay. Thats at least what it feels like now.
He needs some sort of nerf
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I would probably increase his cooldown for chainsaw usage, and make his hitbox a tad bigger. Not as before, but in between so he doesn't get stuck as often but to make it so he doesn't cut corners just as well as a survivor. He should NOT be able to do a 90 degree turn while chainsaw sprinting
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his speed during recovery is much too high and should be reverted back to the slower one from before. currently a survivor doesn't gain any distance after billy misses. The recovery addons for a chainsaw use also need to be deleted
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No offense, but if you're getting downed so easily that it's like his chainsaw is an "M1", you are not experienced at versing Billy. Billy while his c/d after miss is over tuned (I address this), he still is easily counterable once you learn how to verse him.
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Obviously shock therapy does not have the same effect as the chainsaw, but you drew the connection between those two abilities so what is your point even?
I think Billy is one of the most fun killers to play against in the game, and the m2 abilities offer new forms of interaction, I'm glad he is not an m1 killer with the occasional chainsaw here and there... Because that would become really boring... There are so many m1 killers in the game and so few killers that can basically play by only using their m2 ability, so how exactly does m1 gameplay not get old but playing against a curve Billy does?
Besides that, even before the rework Billy's tried to almost exclusively m2 people, because that is what makes him unique, the curves... It just seems like you hate playing against Billy... But that does not change whether it is the old version or this one... It is just that the current version is quite the threat, whereas the old one was rather tame and weak.
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What do you even mean by that? The 90° turn is what enables you to curve? Or are you talking about maneuvering while traversing the map?
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After playing a bunch of matches, I think Hillbilly feels really fun to play as.
Playing against, not so much.
Overdrive feels like an increased threat, which is great! Overdrive chases are a lot more intense.
However, it often feels like I can't get anywhere after dodging an attack. I feel incredibly zoned at all times during Overdrive, and it's not very fun. If I dodge, he can follow right back up with an M1 immediately, or they can just chainsaw immediately and you get no time to run anywhere thanks to the faster charge time. I personally wish for an in-between missed Special Attack cooldown that's somewhere in between where it is now and where it used to be, or what it was before.
I think increasing the terror radius ever-so-slightly during a sprint could be a good idea.
Also, the chainsaw volume is incredibly quiet now? I can barely hear it playing as Survivor, it sounds very unnaturally quiet.
Post edited by NotJared on4 -
It is the cooldown addons. Without them, he feels a lot more fair.
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If anyone wants to see a video of how ridiculous his chainsaw cooldown is with the right setup.
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1afsl7a/am_i_wrong_for_thinking_bhvr_went_a_little
This is absolutely broken and needs to be changed ASAP. This is just rewarding people for missing and not rewarding people for outplaying his ability. The survivor in the video outplays the ability and goes down anyway. What's the point of playing a game where your skill expression doesn't matter?
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Thompson Mix needs to be reworked, i'm even iffy with the cooldown in basekit but that add-on really takes it a bit too far, i had cases where i was still in lunge distance against decent survivors after missing.
Cracked Primer Bulb should just give permanent overdrive, that'd be a fun add-on that would offer an alternative playstyle.
One of the many Overdrive add-ons could be buffed/reworked to have the effect that Overdrive does not dissipate while carrying survivors.
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Hillbilly seems WAYYYY too buffed out rn, he just downed 4 of us in like 2 matches in less than 2 minutes each and while i am relatively new and noob-ish at the game, im playing with real good players and we just cant catch a freaking break. its demoralizing tbh
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Exactly this. I don't mean to sound rude to the people in this thread, but it is very obvious how rarely Billy was seen (so people didn't learn how to verse him), and not being able to just pre-drop every pallet and win has people claiming OP. Billy is a chase killer, his power is meant to have lethality and he has a high skill floor to do well when playing as him. If people are all getting 4 man slugged in seconds, or they're upset that the killer is using their power constantly instead of M1ing, they simply don't know how to verse Billy. THAT'S FINE, but don't request a killer that still requires a lot of effort to do good with be hard nerfed, because you're getting wrecked by them. The truth is, you guys just need to learn how to verse him.
The only "OP" thing about Billy right now is the double stacking cool down recovery add-ons / Thompson's mix+LoPro combo. Base-kit Billy is COMPLETELY FINE lethality-wise, but could still use some tweaks to make him feel better to play AS. Such as nerfing Tmix, but bringing back his ability to move while recovering from bonk. The only reason this felt STRONG was because of Thompson's Mix.
I have played about 16 hours of Billy over the last two days and I'm going to be honest with you guys. The vast majority of you just act like actual goobers when you verse him and die so easily. Like, you make it so easy to kill you, because you just run into him, or don't run to a tile and you just die in the open. MMR isn't that reliable, but I do win the majority of my games and the clip below has been COMMON today and yesterday.
Please Devs, be careful and review the feedback myself and other Billy mains have posted, because 90% of these posts are truly just inexperience. The other 10% are people that have genuine concern about his cool down add-ons + LoPro/TMix combo. He still requires so much skill to do well with and is still easily counterable if you UNDERSTAND how to verse Billy.
EXAMPLES 👇🏻
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if you miss multiple attacks and the survivor still can't get anywhere then i would say according to your argument the billy should not deserve a down because he does not master his skill yet (he is inexperienced). So if even unexperienced billys can down people easily although missing, then the cooldown is indeed problematic.
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But at what point should a missed attack be game changing punishing, and what point should it be a bump in the road?
We have 0 criteria for what's considered "easily", other than that people are just giving vague examples with no standardized data. There's no footage showing actual tiles in question, perks or add-ons by either side, or even what particular mistakes are being made.
You have a clip here where someone has a 4 lane with a pallet facing outside, with a window into a pallet tile, next to a generator, and instead they chose to crouch and walk away and take an m1, AND AVOID THE PALLET TILE. That shows you the average survivor's familiarity with how to play against Billy's new stats.
The 2nd survivor then chooses to greed a toba window right next to a pallet, and crouch techs me, has enough time to get up and drop a pallet EVEN WITH T-HOUSE MIX to get distance! But instead they get 2 tapped by enduring backside stun because they wanted to make a flashy play. Even if I had...double recovery with overdrive active, the feng had plenty of time to get to the window or pallet before I ripped saw.
Please start posting actual clips instead of imaginary anecdotes.
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Again, I agree with Jukies. While I do 100% feel that TMix is over tuned, there is a certain point where people have to realize the amount of stuff that has to go RIGHT for Billy to get downs with his saw and that is usually the survivors doing things WRONG. It's also massively dependent on map RNG/Collision. Billy is NOT BUBBA. While Bubba deals with collision it's not the same way as Billy. There is so much room for Billy to be robbed of downs when using his saw and it requires very good precision that an unpredictable survivor can easily take away. If Bubba is 2 feet from you, he's downing you.
THIS IS ESPECIALLY relevant with the addition of Overdrive. Controlling Billy in Overdrive is a massive learning curve even for experienced BIllys and it makes using his saw very hard at so many places it used to be EASY. The truth is the majority of players are just not used to versing Billy and aren't aware what he was capable of even pre-buff. Most people that played Billy pre-buff used their saw 90% of the time already unless smart survivors forced them to M1. This didn't happen TOO often, because...well...Billy was painful to play, to be honest and they probably rarely versed them, because of it. Every match was constant pre-drop every pallet and you were forced to either back rev (getting right behind the survivor to use the chainsaw) which required them MASSIVELY messing up, or hit them with LoPro through a pallet, then M1 them. If you were versing Billys that only used their saw for mobility 90% of the time and M1'd you the rest of the time, then they weren't actual Billy players and were probably just trying him out or doing a challenge/achievement, so that's why this is such a shock to most people.
The issue is without knowing what is JUDGED as a "miss", Billy cannot use his saw for zoning if he "misses" to do so, which would greatly nerf him if the change isn't done carefully. It is very common for good Billys to sprint past you to cut off a strong loop to ZONE you and technically that's considered "a miss". Previously he was massively punished for this (and just about everything else in his kit, not specifically this) and he shouldn't be, because his mobility is what makes him strong. This is a very DELICATE line that has to be adjusted, or he'll go back to being absolutely terrible. This is not Billy that is the issue, it is his add-ons. When survivors LEARN how to verse him, they will learn how to force him to M1 them, or he will waste massive amounts of time. He is extremely fast + Overdrive speed, so he can take advantage of one mistake INSTANTLY if the Billy is good.
You also have to remember that the VAST majority of Billys that are playing right now were mains before his buff. Many of them struggled through old Billy and had to adapt to become decent with a killer that was extremely hard to get good results out of unless you were INSANELY skilled at him. Those same Billys are now playing a killer that isn't broken, but actually DECENT and because of that, they're doing VERY well. If you're getting slaughtered quickly, good chance you're versing someone with MANY hours in Billy. The average person will not pick Billy up and instantly get insane results.
As for moving after bonk, there was nothing wrong with that on PTB, and it made him feel much less jarring + new player friendly. The only reason it felt over tuned at all is...you guessed it THE ADD-ONS. You weren't fast while moving after bonk, you were slow, but not stuck with a still camera, so it made it feel less punishing, even though the survivor barely lost any distance from being able to move during it.
Bottom Line, this is a learning curve + add-ons issue that needs to be adjusted. It is not a nerf Billy back into the gutter issue.
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I love the state that billy is now in after the rework but I would like to ask for a small quality of life tweak, when billy misses the saw currently the camera jerks down to his feet and having that happen repeatedly starts to make me nauseous so it would be much appreciated if that could be toned down in the future.
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I have 5 games today with Survivors DCing against Billy. And 5 others where Billy downs three survivors before the 2min mark.
How can this possibly okay gameplay?
100% you needed to make Billy easier to play for the general community, but the Billy mains have lied about his weakness. He did not need the overdrive at all and he was super strong already and you made him even stronger. hes worse than skull merchant.
The only suggestions I can give is making Billy blind to auras in Overdrive, so he cant instantly find people using BBQ all the time, cause him with auras in overdrive is just unfair.
When survivors LEARN how to verse him,...
Right now they are DC'ing against him, Great job guys.
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100% this
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Well Im glad YOU are having a great experience then but I certainly didn't.
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I dont like this rework. I dont have time to react to him in chase.
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one thing i forgot to say that i hate about the new billy is that he doesn't have cooldown or charges on he's chainsaw. leatherface have charges to prevent the spam making him too strong so why not billy. he can just spam he's chainsaw for a unlimited amount of time during the entire match, there is zero point for him to use a m1. giving a killer the ability to spam the m2 over and over is not the solution for balancing the game.
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Yeah, you felt the need to contradict my personal experience with your own subjective experience. But its not like its new here, if I had a dollar for every user Ive seen not giving a hoot about other people's experience playing this game, idd be a rich man.
Carry on.
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In my opinion Hillbilly's Basekit is mostly fine, his add-ons need to be looked at (missed chainsaw cooldown add-ons and useless add-ons)
My goal is to make all add-on have an use while making the strong add-on no too strong.
The problematic add-ons
-Greased Throttle, The Thompsons' Mix: The missed Chainsaw cooldown is already low on basekit and these add-ons make it almost a guaranteed m1, making it uncounterable. Rework these add-ons (like Leafy Mash or Mother's helpers).
LoPro Chains: this add-on feels cheap to use and a little unfair for survivors when dropping a pallet. Give it another drawback (like increased chainsaw Charge time)
Iridescent Engravings: This add-on is mostly fine, only problem is that it stacks with Overdrive at a ridiculous speed. The time to react is small. Maybe make it only increase movement speed when not in Overdrive.
The terrible or unneeded add-ons
- Counterweight: this add-on is terrible, make it atleast have something little like +5% charge reduction (in Overdrive)
-Cracked Prime Bulb: this add-on is a bad give-take add-on. Make it an actually speed limiter: e.g. it increases the Charge rate of the Overdrive Meter by +50% and decrease the movement speed of the chainsaw by -10%
-Steel toe Boots: make one bump-addon and rework the other one (e.g. 5% chainsaw movement increase).
-Thermal Casing, Discarded Air Filter, Ragged Engine, High-Speed Idler Screw: these add-ons do the same thing, delaying the decay of the Overdrive meter is not necessary and the time is too long to make a difference with add-ons. Have 1 decay add-on and rework the rest (e.g. old Big Buckle, Pighouse Gloves, Mother's Helpers and Black Grease combined or Leafy Mash etc.)
-Tuned Carburettor: this add-on is scary to buff/change, but the 4.4 m/s movement speed is most of the time a hinderance. It has a hidden downside of making the chainsaw speed slower because of the movement speed multiplier (4.4*2*1.1): 9.68 m/s instead of the normal 10.12 m/s. Give it less chainsaw charge time (20% --> 15%), decrease the movement speed of the chainsaw by 10% and remove the 4.4 m/s movement speed penalty.
TLDR: Billy is mostly fine, but has overlooked/bad add-ons while some are problematic.
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That sentence does not mate a lot of sense mate. Why would I be crossed by people who agree with me? You don't seem to understand you replied to me with your personal experience. So you are saying there are people who reply to me, saying they agree with me, and you want me to say to them that they shouldn't simply contradict others personal experience on here? I guess you are right you don't see that happening cause why would that ever happen? Why would my experience be crossed by someone who agrees with me? Strange suggestion you give me.
But if you mean to say that I should not say I'm against people trying to disregard or contradict others, even if I don't agree with them. Then yeah, you would be right so if you catch me letting that slide in a response in a thread I'm writing, You can certainly call me out if you wish or call them out myself. I'm fine with that.
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damn billy really gonna get nerfed because people can't pre-drop a pallet to stop him from curving
nerfing billy tbh is like nerfing legion cuz the survivors grouped up and gave him a down in frenzy
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My point is a killer's power shouldn't be so good that it becomes their basic attack the entire match.
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No, I'm trying to understand. But I think I got the problem, You don't want to be contradicted, that is why you replied to my personal experience. I didn't reply to your personal experience my guy so why should I be mindful of telling people don't care about other's personal experiences? It does not make sense, I think you just wanted me to shut up and didn't much care how.
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they made him do that because they want billy to lose "LOS" on survivors, meaning it gives survivors a better chance from breaking chase from billy.
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At this point just remove overdrive and make him how he was back before overheat just without busted addons then everyone will be happy.
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You are claiming a lot of people are now DC'ing against Billy (If I misunderstood. I apologize. End of discussion).
Its not a claim, I saw them do it, its an observation. I don't DC myself. Unless you are like other Hillbillys, I've met today who wont believe people DC against Billy, I have met three so far today. I didn't record it, but you are really skeptical of the wrong things, if what you say about not caring about being contradicted is true.
Like Im not going to ask for proof of your experience, Im sure you had some nice games. That is completely possible to me and not something I have any need to question. But you have a need to question me, to ask me to prove my experience? Why.
All I wanted to say in my reply to that was that it's been different for me. Nothing deeper nor was I invalidating your experience.
See here is where I think your narrative breaks down because what would I do with your experience? Its completely inconsequential to me. What in your mind did you think I could use your personal experience for? Furthermore when you respond to me again you say your point was that I said 'YOU' meaning my subjective experience, meaning that your responded to my subjective experience.
Like there is no way I believe that was not what that was about, but if you wanna say now that it was not, then I ask you to not be cryptic with your writing and tell me what you wanna say- You say you are bad with writing, but you don't seem like it, other than you don't always explain fully what you mean so you leave others guessing. We probably come from each other side of the planet, least we can do is be clear? don't you agree?
I found that rude, insulting and dismissive. I'll be honest it got my back up. It comes off as you were dismissing my personal experience but at the same time it was fine to share yours.
Okay, now look at that from my point of view. I wanted to make sure bHVR takes notice that in my neck of the MMR system things were disconnecting fast last night, then I get a reply to my post from someone saying basically, "No I didnt see anyone disconnect last night." Then when I respond to him, he tells me back its just my subjective opinion, when I saw it with my own eyes.
How do you think I feel? that I have to prove now what my own eyes see? Yeah, rude, insulting and dismissive that's exactly it.
Hell, if you had data to back it up I would even admit I'm wrong. But, no I'm not going to sit back and let someone tell me my experience doesn't count and I should accept theirs. At the end of the day unless we have data on this we don't know.
This is where we split, cause I was giving my feedback to bHVR, but you replied and quoted your feedback to me. bHVR keeps an eye on the DC and they will know if there is a major problem. But I wanted to give my feedback to bHVR not you, that is why I didn't quote you when I made my first post. But you did, you wanted to discuss all of this with me. For what purpose I still dont see, but lets take it of forum if you wish.
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