remove and/or stop making unfun killer designs

I wanna know what killers were "designed" to camp and tunnel.

It seems like such a nonsense claim when most killers can't use their power around hooked survivors.

I'd actually relent on bubba and pyramid head because they are the best at camping and tunneling respectively but they said recent killers which is why I don't know what they're talking about.

So every Killer released after Pyramid head (and including)???

What about their design makes them bad???

Also there was a Killer that "broke the mold"

The best killers are high-mobility killers. Pyramid Head and Deathslinger aren't viable at competitive levels.

The only thing im reading is " Remove Killers Who has Antiloop and Map Control make more Killers i can loop for ever so i hv easier Chance to escape whitout any Skill "

Anti loop and Map control is the thing that makes some Killers good at against highrank Survivor and even then there are Killers who have both and are still Bad against Highrank ( like my 2 Mains Dredge and Singularity )

And whit all of the 2nd Chance Perks Survivors have u need a Killer whit a decent Anti loop or Chase Power look at the god Window at Garden of Pain or Haddonfield a M1 Killer like Sadako cant do anything against it

To be honest, I still don't get what people find fun about Wesker. Except his chase music, but that could have been given to any other killer.

To me he is a contender for worst killer to go against, and I was really surprised when I learned most players do not hate him.

Other than Spirit this is a great list of killers that are unplayable on console.

The thing is is that they physically NEED killers that have kits designed to require less skill to use and be more suited for casual players. As of right now these killers are one of the things keeping the game alive because having a game that is WAY TOO competitive-based makes the game not very accessible to casual players and casual players are always the majority of players in any game. If they made it hard for killers to win chases for casual players due to everything requiring pure skill then a lot of players are just gonna start leaving and the only other ways to prevent that would be to either just make more of these killers or just start gutting a ton of stuff from the survivor side even more so that it's easier on those players.

TLDR: These kinds of killers are sorta needed just so that casual players can actually enjoy an overly-competitive game.

Nurse does shut down loops, though. You don't conventionally loop Nurse, and you usually don't end up using pallets against her.

Similarly, windows and pallets are some of the easiest places to get hits with Huntress and Plague (with Corrupt Purge up).

I am genuinely having a hard time getting a read on what you want killers to do. There's basically no killer in the game right now that really makes looping obsolete except Nurse, so I guess you're referring to the issue of some killers being able to use their power to force you away? But at that point, there's only three of those in the game (Artist, Knight, Skull Merchant) and none of them are designed to do that, it's a flaw in their kit.

Maybe it'd be constructive to ask for a list of the killers you think epitomise this 'unfun design', if you're willing?

I would agree my friend! :)

Killers have had anti-loop since the beginning. Nurse, the first DLC killer, is the physical embodiment of anti-loop, and that's probably why she's the best killer in the game. She's designed to be un-loopable. Beyond her, though, we have Hag, who can use her traps to bodyblock pallets and windows and get hits on top of that; Doctor, who can make Survivors scream and thus block them from using pallets and windows; Pig, who has a dash attack; Spirit, who can turn invisible and zoom around a loop; and Demo, who can Shred to break pallets or catch survivors from a distance. These are all killers with anti-loop built into their kits.

On average, Anti-loop killers also have very high capacity for skill expression and techs, which killer players are drawn too. Artist has bird-sniping, Dredge has Remnant games, Wesker has a number of techs like the rebound and hug tech, Singularity has mid-chase tag-and-teleport (which activates his anti-loop), Xeno has the "fishing" tech, and Chucky has his dashes. Is all anti-loop good? No. Knight's and SM's anti-loop are bad because they are both fire-and-forget. No skill expression there. Their skill expression comes in other parts of their gameplay. However, anti-loop killers generally have more skill expression than non-anti-loop killers. Where's Trapper's skill expression? The only skill expression Trapper has is where he sets his traps, which is at best an educated guess that may never pay off. What about Legion? Do they have much of any skill expression?

I don't understand the argument of removing anti-loop killers from the game. That feels like saying exhaustion perks should be removed because they give a survivor a "get out of jail free" card to either get out of a deadzone that THEY let themselves be caught in, or because it allows them to chain loops they would not be able to otherwise. The whole point of exhaustion perks and anti-loop is to add variation and uncertainty into the gameplay loop. They keep it fresh instead or formulaic. Killers have to play around survivor tools for extending chases, and survivors have to play around killer tools for shortening them.

The truth is that, because of how the game works, chases can't be long. If a killer is getting into a bad first chase, then the optimal thing to do is drop the chase and go for someone else, because, if they don't they could lose 3 gens in one chase. They shouldn't but it can happen. Survivors typically spawn on their objective, while killers usually spawn across the map from them and have to search. There are also toolboxes and gen speed perks, which make gen repairs take less than 90 seconds. When we put all of this together, a "good" first chase for survivor, or a "bad" one for killer, doesn't have to be 90 seconds.

The three main ways that chases are shortened is make the killer stronger, make the survivor weaker, or give the killer a power that fundamentally alters how loops work, usually anti-loop. BHVR usually goes for anti-loop, probably because any basekit or perk buffs to killer buff Nurse and Blight, survivors don't like nerfs (understandable), and new powers with anti-loop keep gameplay fresh. It may not be fun for survivors, but it is fresh.

Edit: Forgot to add that the stats published recently also show that comms don't necessarily make a team more likely to survive any killer, except at High MMR. Mandy confirmed that "High MMR" is referring to a really low number of players above the soft cap. https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/405429/which-percentile-is-considered-high-mmr-by-bhvr

Not really? The only examples I can think of is Freddy and Singularity.

Unless it's a hardcore 3-genning Singularity. Then it's as fun as dentistry. Haven't encountered one since the anti-3-gen nerf but I bet they still exist and I bet they're still horrible to deal with.

It's fitting to point out how fun is subjective in a thread about unfun killer designs. It just hammers home the point that no one's going to be happy with every killer, so the best BHVR can aim for is balance, which includes a Freddy rework.

A good Freddy rework.

I do not quite understand what you mean with "press 1 button and win mechanic"... what killer has this in your opinion? Why are there so many people in this threat who just cant do anything but complain. Do you realise that many of the recent Killers are not amongst the best Killers? Why do you say that Wesker is so good because he has fair counterplay, if there are Killers like Dredge and Artist who also have fair counterplay?

I know and you know where I stand my friend :)