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The Pig Buff I felt we needed.
Hello, I made a Pig Buff a while ago but never uploaded it or shared my ideas with anyone. But after seeing what BHVR did with The Pig buff and after finally making an account with this site; I would like to share with you all my version of a Pig buff.
1st let me show off what BHVR did in case there are some gamers who are unaware.
The Pig v7.6.0
Basekit
Buffs
1. Increased Ambush attack duration to 2.3 seconds (was 2)
2. Decreased Ambush attack successful hit cooldown to 2.7 seconds (was 3)
3. Decreased Ambush attack miss cooldown to 1.5 seconds (was 2)
4. Increased The Pig’s movement speed while crouched to 3.8 m/s (was 3.6)
5. Decreased the time it takes for The Pig to crouch to 1 seconds (was 1.3)
6. Increased the amount of Bloodpoints earned for Ambush Dash hits to 850 BP (was 500)
7. Increased the amount of Bloodpoints earned for setting a Reverse Bear Trap to 1000 BP (was 500)
Nerfs
1. Increased Reverse Bear Trap timer to 180 seconds (was 150)
2. Removed The Pig’s ability to see Jigsaw Boxes
Now my version
Pig Buff’s
Start’s the Trial with 5 Reverse Bear Traps in her inventory, which cannot be replenished.
The Trial also spawns 6 Jigsaw Boxes placed in random locations throughout the Trial Grounds.
While Crouched, The Pig is granted the Undetectable Status Effect at the cost of moving at slower speed (3.8 m/s) from 3.6 m/s.
Decrease The Pig’s Terror Radius to 28 Meters.
1st Jigsaw Box is a guaranteed failed attempt while the 5th attempt will always be a guaranteed escape.
1. The 5th Reverse Bear Trap is not a predetermined number thus attempts 2 - 4 are random.
2. Any Reverse Bear Trap past the 4th usage will not be a predetermined number.
Active Reverse Bear Trap Timers are armed and on a Death Timer of 180 seconds.
The Add-ons “Interlocking Razor and Razor Wires” are now base kit into the Jigsaw Boxes; with the affects applying. While healthy, survivors failing a Skill Check at a Jigsaw Box become injured. While injured, Survivors failing a Skill Check at a Jigsaw Box become afflicted by the Deep Wound Status Effect.
1. Common Add-on
Add-on “Interlocking Razor” reworked - is reverted back to its 1.9.0 version, “Tremendously increases Regression penalty on Failed Skill Checks at Jigsaw Boxes.”
2. Uncommon Add-on
Add-on “Razor Wires” reworked - is reverted back to is 1.9.0 version “Increases Skill Check Trigger Odds by 20% at Jigsaw Boxes.”
3. Ultra-Rare Add-on
Add-on “Video Tape” reworked - All Survivors start the Trail with Reverse Bear Traps installed, Jigsaw Boxes Auras are only seen within 12 Meters by Survivors with inactive or active Bear Traps. (Overrides the Rare Add-on “Rules Set No. 2” or doesn’t stack.)
As you can tell I centered my version of Pig around buffing the Reverse Bear Traps and making the Jigsaw Boxes viable in not only potently failing attempts at escaping but also punishing the survivors who miss Skill Checks while searching.
BHVR’s version is centered on making Pig greater in her chases thus buffing her Ambush’s attack duration, cooldowns, and crouching speeds.
As much as I like my ideas I do feel if both mine and BHVR’s buffs combined The Pig would be too strong. I don’t prefer mine to BHVR’s I just made mine 1st but I would love to hear anyone’s feedback.
Comments
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I've not seen a "pig got nerfed" thread in a while so I guess they are on the right track eitherway hmm.
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My 1st ever comment :)
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After all these years, I'm still saying Make the Rules Set No.2 (hides Jigsaw box auras for survivors until their RBT is activated) part of her base kit, Make Amanda's Letter Take current Rules Set No. 2's place in rarity (It doesn't really feel powerful enough to be an Ultra Rare), and replace it entirely with:
Heart Monitor Trigger (UR):
A modification to the Reverse Bear Traps Trigger Mechanism:
Reverse Bear Traps now activate without a timer when a survivor with one is unhooked. If a survivor with an Active Reverse Bear Trap is Sacrificed, all other active Reverse Bear Traps are Triggered.
Increases Jigsaw Box Search time by 8 seconds
Increases Jigsaw Box Skill check Difficulty by 25%
Removes Great Skill Check Success zones from Jigsaw boxes.
"You are not a good listener. I think you missed the part that if he dies, you die." - Amanda Young
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you've been away then
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This is...literally just Tunneling (Patent Pending) the add-on. I think you need to go back to the drawing board on that one.
Rule Set No. 2 basekit really only kills new players, it's a mild inconvenience for more experienced players, which is who she needs hslp with. She already stomps new players.
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Hello, thank you for your feedback. Okay so what you are saying is this Add-on spawns the survivors with the Bear Traps and they only activate either after unhooking or if one dies then they all activate. The idea is there but it might be too strong as the tunneling aspect with definitely arise. Its a start, run more ideas by me if you like :)
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They don't spawn with the traps, You still have to put traps on their heads (unless you use the other useless UR Pig add-on), but they don't activate on a survivor after they've been unhooked, and after activating there's no timer ticking down. If there are more than 1 survivor with an active RBT (meaning each one would've had to have been hooked once and saved once) when one dies with an active RBT, the RBT's kill the others.
Pros:
Potential to kill more than 1 survivor if you manage to sacrifice a survivor with an active RBT.
Jisgaw boxes take longer to search, and have slightly smaller success zones that feature no Great success zones.
Encourages team mates to protect each other until the RBT's are removed since one sacrifice could snowball on the others.
Tunneling 1 survivor doesn't work until you've applied and activated RBT's on 1 or more other survivors, which encourages the killer to get as many traps active as possible before going in for the kill.
Cons:
Because RBT's aren't activated until the survivors with them are unhooked, survivors can counter by leaving another with an inactive RBT on the hook buying them time to try and remove their RBT before unhooking their allies.
RBT's no longer feature a timer, nor do they activate via gens, so there's no gen slowdown due to getting a "friend hat" from the Pig. Meaning they could just rush gens, and only go after jigsaw boxes at mid to end game.
Pig has to fully sacrifice a survivor on a hook with an Active RBT in order to get any other active RBT's to trigger and kill other survivors, Mori's won't do it.
Jigsaw box RNG is still a thing, so it's still highly possible to get the RBT off your head with the second or third Jigsaw box searched.
Basically This has the potential to create a chain reaction of RBT deaths, but in practice, it'll likely only get 1 other survivor at most by the time someone dies with an active RBT, if that. Still, it puts a lot of pressure on survivors to try and get their active RBT off before unhooking someone whose RBT hasn't been activated yet, as well as help each other stay alive until all RBT's are disarmed. I thought this would be a far better alternative for the Ultra Rare add-on slot because it changes up the playstyle for both Pig and the survivors, much like how Hag's UR add-on trade teleports for high Movement speed, or Myers UR allows him to kill without hooking by making him take much longer to Tier up. I Believe that this add-on suggestion in practice will more likely be akin to Hex: Pentimento... sure it has the potential to dominate a match if all 5 totems are re-kindled, but that's so extremely rare to actually happen that Streamers made a "Challenge" out of it.
I've been suggesting these changes since 2019, and Despite the cons which I feel make the potential power of this add-on more balanced, and the fact that it would follow the Saw franchise lore surrounding Amanda (Pig) better, I got slammed with a slew of comments from survivors saying they would DC in droves against Pig if the idea were implemented, and the only thing anyone agreed on was that "Rules set No.2" should be base kit. I believe that the reason they shot it down so harshly is simply because they didn't understand that I had balance in mind when coming up with it, which is why I took the liberty of spelling it out this time around.
Case and point! Pulsar doesn't understand that you need to Apply multiple RBT's, they need to be activated by teammate's unhooking, and THEN you have to actually manage to sacrifice one of the teammates WITH an Active RBT in order to get the chain reaction of kills. In other words, There's no point in tunneling anyone if you don't have active RBT's on any of the other survivors, and even then, there's no timer on them, so the only time based condition is: How many survivors can remove their RBT's vs. How quickly the killer can get multiple RBT's placed, Activated, and Sacrifice one of them to trigger the chain reaction.
This isn't Billy, Bubba, Ghost-Face, Blight, etc, Killers with high mobility and one shot-downs... this is Pig we're talking about. No insta-down capability, a special attack that's highly telegraphed, a game slowdown mechanic and otherwise your standard m1 killer. I figured a Playstyle altering add-on with high setup and the potential for high reward would be a great change of pace for Pig.
Rules set no.2 also doesn't do anything significant enough to kill new players, especially with the upcoming 3 min timer change. There's no reason it shouldn't be base kit at this point.
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Oh, good, so you just need two downs to tunnel.
Also, Rule Set No. 2 is basekit, so they aren't gonna get the Trap off quickly.
Yeah, I don't think this addon idea is great. Also, Pig's Ambush was, surprisingly, very good on the PTB. Keep her Traps vaguely non-lethal and for the love of everything holy, do not encourage people to tunnel more.
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Alrighty, I have to admit I wasn't expecting a response like this :) this is my kind of energy. So lets get into it, this idea you have is on a whole different level and for that very reason it cannot be a simple add-on (no matter the rarity) What you are describing is a complete rework of the pigs power and while nothing is wrong with that you would have to go over all the current add-on and either rework or balance them around your idea. I'm sorry you had backlash for your ideas, the slew of comments you mentioned. I don't feel this would be a bad idea, it could possibly make it as a add-on but you would have to figure out one major detail. Is the pig buffed from BHVR or by my version, because just adding your add-on with the pig in her current version. She lacks the chase nor the RBT and Jigsaw strength to get quicker down to make your add-on strong on its own.
Also Rules Set No.2... if you want that basekit then that is fine, but you have to rework the add-on to do something else, any ideas?
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I agree, her reverse bear traps need a rework after all the unnecessary changes. Honestly I think the entire community would just prefer version 1 of her back from when she first got added, her late game- gameplay was interesting and fun, and she's only a shadow of herself made a pathetic killer with a nearly useless (or at least underwhelming) power.
I love her character as a unique and fun killer but she's incredibly weak and as I go higher in my mmr she becomes unplayable, which is rather unfortunate
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I like that they buffed her ambush/crouch, but her traps are her real power and her identity. Nerfing them makes her only a bad Chucky and the traps weren‘t even strong to beginn with.
They should change:
- Skill check perks should work with the boxes (huntress lullaby, unnerving presence)
- The timer should be reduced to 130s or 140s. Head pops are by far too rare and the traps are no threat at all
- Start the Timer through conspicuous actions
- Rule set number two hides the auras all the time
Scream nerf:
When leaving a box or being interrupted the box looses progress over time.
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Hello, thanks for your feedback. To be honest I only know of The Pigs history from this Youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pN4mNqtv_IM But I think her late game gameplay was interesting like you said.
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Hi Jonifire, thanks for your feedback.
The idea of Huntress Lullaby and Unnerving Presence affecting the skill check success zones for Jigsaw Boxes is very good idea and that alone would be a buff. (Jealous I didn't think of it) I would go as far as Gearhead and the new perk from The Unknown - Undone; all it would need is a change in text in mechanics "All actions that require use of a Skill Check (Good or Great)" that could buff all actions and killers that have use of Skill Checks in their powers or add-ons.
I feel the timer being at 150 is good for the current Pig and 180 with my version. 180 after the update is a hard nerf as the survivors will have a easier time finding the boxes while the pig cant see them herself.
The Timer only stops when either in chase, in the dying state, being carried to a hook, or being on the hook. I'm not sure where the conspicuous actions takes place. Enlighten me please
Rule Set No. 2 being basekit is not a bad idea, but no one has thought of a add-on rework to replace it... any ideas?
Scream nerf??
The progress resets when you stop and start again thus being hit or pulled out would reset the jigsaw boxes progress. Having it slowly loose progress overtime would be a nerf but a buff to survivors but honestly they would never get back to it in time to benefit from the buff.
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Of all reworks to the RBTs I've heard, I think @TWiXT has my absolute favourite. For one, it actually feels like a SAW trap, and two, can give Pig an unmatched kill potential yet requires an extreme amount of work on her end, which I think would be perfectly fair.
She'd probably become one of my favourite killers if she got a rework like that, but until then, I'm likely never picking her up unfortunately.
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Gearhead would also be cool to work with the boxes, but how should undone work with the boxes. It‘s a gen regression perk.
Personally I would prefer when the traps are always active (except of being slugged/hooked:chased) and activating it through conspicuous actions would just be a cool little extra or that it activates after the first search.
At the moment Rule set N.2 only hides the box auras, when the trap isn‘t active and I suggested, that it also works, when the trap is activated. It would also be cool if they make current rule set N.2 basekit and make it the other effect I suggested.
Scream nerf:
When leaving a box or being interrupted the box looses progress over time.
That is my idea to nerf the scream builds, which reset your progress completely. Instead of loosing all progress, it looses progress over time and a scream looses you only 2s for example.
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Hi, I did meantion the use of Gearhead with the skill checks at Jigsaw boxes.
Do you want the traps to be active while being carried by the killer?
So you are asking for Rule Set No. 2 to be basekit with the rework making the add-on - while the Reverse Bear Traps become active the auras of Jigsaw Boxes are hidden? (So you just want the survivors to not be able to see the Jigsaw boxes at all... the timer would have to be 180 and I would argue 210 depending on how the games went. No aura reading on the jigsaw boxes would be crazy lol) If you want to talk more about this I am ready :)
And I finally get what you mean about the Scream Nerf, its a balance for the interruptions and nerf to pig and a buff to survivors... more or less neither a buff or a nerf but a QoL change.
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Hi, I did meantion the use of Gearhead with the skill checks at Jigsaw boxes.
I know, I just repeated and agreed with you.
Do you want the traps to be active while being carried by the killer?
I forgot that, sorry. I only meant, that the timer starts directly after attaching the trap or to the current activation added, that it starts after the first search of a box and through conspicuous actions.
So you are asking for Rule Set No. 2 to be basekit with the rework making the add-on - while the Reverse Bear Traps become active the auras of Jigsaw Boxes are hidden? (So you just want the survivors to not be able to see the Jigsaw boxes at all... the timer would have to be 180 and I would argue 210 depending on how the games went. No aura reading on the jigsaw boxes would be crazy lol) If you want to talk more about this I am ready :)
I don‘t think it would need to be increased, because the jigsaw boxes are very obvious, but I would be fine if they get more 20s to remove it with this addon(170s).
And I finally get what you mean about the Scream Nerf, its a balance for the interruptions and nerf to pig and a buff to survivors... more or less neither a buff or a nerf but a QoL change.
It is a small nerf to the regular gameplay, but it would solve the abuse of scream perks to make searching boxes not impossible.
I would like if they bring back the old boxes and how they worked. Back the there were 4 chests and in one of them was the key, instead of the current rng. Then they would need to solve the box camping situation and it would be fine (they could just make that the key switches the box of pig camps it and then the box gets highlighted).
I agree with your post, that it would be cool to reduce her terror radius back to what it was.
Post edited by jonifire on0 -
Hi...
So do you want the RBT to activation upon the Pig placing it on the Survivors head? or when the begin attempting the Jigsaw Box? (I don't believe that is a conspicuous action).
I've heard the arguments that Survivor players should know the location of gen spawns, totems spawns, window vaults, pallet spawns, chest spawns, and even the exit gates locations. The Pig is a rare killer thus is even rarer if players remember her jigsaw boxes spawn locations. No aura reading on the boxes basekit or add-ons is very strong. It's a conflict of interest, I can't truly get behind it because without the aura reading survivors would struggle a lot. A beta test would be needed without aura reading and the timer staying at 150 then trails at 180, and maybe even trials at 210.
My version of Pig the timer being 180 makes sense because the 1st jigsaw box is 100% a failed attempt, with the added penalty if missing skill checks while healthy or injured cost them a health state. (Deep Wound is a Health State)
Start’s the Trial with 5 Reverse Bear Traps in her inventory, which cannot be replenished.
The Trial also spawns 6 Jigsaw Boxes placed in random locations throughout the Trial Grounds.
1st Jigsaw Box is a guaranteed failed attempt while the 5th attempt will always be a guaranteed escape.
1. The 5th Reverse Bear Trap is not a predetermined number thus attempts 2 - 4 are random.
2. Any Reverse Bear Trap past the 4th usage will not be a predetermined number.
Active Reverse Bear Trap Timers are armed and on a Death Timer of 180 seconds.
The Add-ons “Interlocking Razor and Razor Wires” are now base kit into the Jigsaw Boxes; with the affects applying. While healthy, survivors failing a Skill Check at a Jigsaw Box become injured. While injured, Survivors failing a Skill Check at a Jigsaw Box become afflicted by the Deep Wound Status Effect.
I know you mentioned putting the Jigsaw boxes back to how they were... it was still RNG the boxes now are not RNG it is a predetermined number. if you want me to explain that more in detail you can ask me :)
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I appreciate you backing me, especially when everyone else seems to believe that I only want to make the pig OP as hell, and must've ate many lead based paint chips as a child.
That's honestly how it feels most of the time when I make perks or suggestions. Try as I might and despite their claims, I do have balance in mind, and TBH, the one I suggested here, if it were truly balanced, would activate traps the moment they were put on survivors. As it is, It has 5 requirements for the killer in order to work:
1. the killer downs, sets an RBT, and hooks the survivor.
2. The survivor is rescued.
3. More than 1 other survivor has been downed, trapped, hooked and rescued to activate their trap(s) too,
4. a survivor with an active trap is sacrificed to get a kill chain reaction
5. none of the other survivors with active traps have disarmed them by the time the survivors with an active trap is sacrificed.
If anything, this is honestly a ######### useless add-on, now that I think about it! At least all Myers has to do is spend a combined 3 mins of Stalking to kill everyone without hooking them! FFS, I dunno why everyone complains about My idea(s) when what the game already has in it is far worse. If anything, My idea is too nice/coddling to survivors by comparison to what the devs have already created.
@Pulsar was actually right! I need to go back to the drawing board and make this add-on more streamlined/brutal so that it's an actual threat, and not a majorly convoluted add-on with so many excess requirements that are nigh impossible to achieve in order for it to work! If Myers can provide so much more threat with much less requirements, and still achieve changing their whole playstyle, than this add-on needs to do the same!
Thanks @Mentally_Mechanical , You've motivated me to see where I've been wrong in my suggestion, and I promise Heart Monitor Trigger 3.0 will be much better!
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So do you want the RBT to activation upon the Pig placing it on the Survivors head? or when the begin attempting the Jigsaw Box? (I don't believe that is a conspicuous action).
Yes and conspicuous actions are doing gens, healing and maybe opening chests.
I've heard the arguments that Survivor players should know the location of gen spawns, totems spawns, window vaults, pallet spawns, chest spawns, and even the exit gates locations. The Pig is a rare killer thus is even rarer if players remember her jigsaw boxes spawn locations. No aura reading on the boxes basekit or add-ons is very strong. It's a conflict of interest, I can't truly get behind it because without the aura reading survivors would struggle a lot. A beta test would be needed without aura reading and the timer staying at 150 then trails at 180, and maybe even trials at 210.
Yes they should test it. They could make it one of those negative trade addons, which adds 20-30s, but I don‘t think it should be more than 180s. Maybe the time increase isn‘t even needed, who knows?
To your idea:
I would like if the make Interlocking Razor and Razor Wires basekit. 5 traps also good.
I can‘t say why, but I don‘t want to have 6 boxes and up to 2-5 searches and 180s timer.
I know you mentioned putting the Jigsaw boxes back to how they were... it was still RNG the boxes now are not RNG it is a predetermined number. if you want me to explain that more in detail you can ask me :)
It wasn‘t really Rng, you just had to decide to run to the right box with the key and with a bit of luck you found it. Currently the pig can easily focus on you, when she knows the others removed their trap fast, which then says you have to search 3-4boxes and that can make it really difficult.
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Searching a Chest isn't a conspicuous actions, and gens completing should be well enough to activate the RBTs, DS, BT and OTR would be trash against a tunneling pig.
You say 5 traps is good... but don't want the idea of 6 boxes... there has to be more boxes then traps... 2-5 searches is to give the RBT and the Boxes a actual slow down.
I don't really know what to think of this... "It wasn‘t really Rng, you just had to decide to run to the right box with the key and with a bit of luck you found it."
The whole point of me adding a 5th RBT was to put a lil more pressure for the traps, making the timer to 180 seconds was to accommodate the fact that I made it where the survivors had a chance to search up to 5 boxes. The 1st search was going to be a 100% fail rate so why no add additional time already knowing that from the jump. I prefer balanced buff or nerfs, (idk why everyone feels a long timer is always bad... a lot of things could happen before or after the timer starts.)
People think too much of a straight line when it comes to the timer of RBTs. What if you got the trap on and give up on gens and look for a box but then someone is hooked and you need to go for them, someone is slugged and you need to go for them, you're healing yourself, or healing someone else, or someone is healing you. What if the killer sees you and begins chase, what if you see a hex and need to cleanse it, what if its ruin, devour, blood favor, etc... All of this can happen with your trap active or non active. Everyone thinks the timer is a hard nerf but never think when they ever have a match play out the way they were expecting it to?
Honestly I will search 1 or 2 boxes and if it doesn't come off I will do a gen because I know that it come off either on the 3rd or 4th.
The boxes were complexly RNG back then, each survivors had a 1-4 chance of getting the trap of. meaning
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 1 = 1 - 4
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 2 = 1 - 4
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 3 = 1 - 4
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 4 = 1 - 4
Each survivor could possibly get the trap off on their 1st attempt or on their 4th attempt.
DbD's current version is this
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 1 = (1)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 2 = 1, (2)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 3 = 1, 2, (3)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 4 = 1, 2, 3, (4)
If the 1st attempt takes the survivor 4 tries then the 2 survivor has 1-3 chances to get their trap off. if the second gets their trap off on the 1st attempt then the 3rd survivor has to either get theirs off on the 2nd or 3rd attempt.
My version with 5 RBTs
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 1 = 1, (2)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 2 = 1, 2, (3)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 3 = 1, 2, 3, (4)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 4 = 1, 2, 3, 4, (5)
Survivor Reverse Bear Trap 5 = 1, (2), (3), (4), (5)
The Pig has two add-ons which could add 2 more RBTs, the attempts on those boxes would be the same as the 5th RBT. My version is a guaranteed slowdown and a buff to the Pigs RBT and Jigsaw boxes.
BHVR took away the RNG and made each box set with a RBT set with a predetermined of how many boxes the survivors had to search with no survivor having the search the same amount as the other. some would search more and some would search less.
Currently the pig can easily focus on you, when she knows the others removed their trap fast, which then says you have to search 3-4 boxes and that can make it really difficult.
The pig can do this playstyle in any version of her history as this is just a players playstyle.
Post edited by APOPALYPSE on0 -
I like how the pig is now but they need to increase the speed when she is using the ambush, it is long enough just not fast enough.
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