Can we address how unhealthy and unbearable pop pain res is

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Nerfpopalready
Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
edited March 12 in Feedback and Suggestions

I can’t deal with pop pain res every single game I had 3 nurses in a row using pop pain res grim embrace it’s always the same stuff it’s making survivor unbearable

give pop 4 stacks like pain res and make it so you need to hook the 4 separate survivors for value

make pop 25-20%

make pain res 15%

its the two strongest most used killer perks in the game and nothing has been done about it and it’s getting so tiresome going against it every game

Post edited by Rizzo on
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Comments

  • MalekithHatesSnow
    MalekithHatesSnow Member Posts: 216
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    Pop does have stacks it has 8 so does every other gen perk also the only time a killer gets value from pop is from hooks so if the same gen is being pop constantly you aren't winning

  • Optx
    Optx Member Posts: 50
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    I'm sure you could decrease their respective regression by 5% and be done with it.

  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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    No pop needs 4 stacks and it needs to be each individual survivor instead of them tunneling popping the gen then going back to hook and getting another pop after tunneling yet again makes solo queue unbearable

  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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    4 slowdowns is just hand holding to the extreme but the devs just don’t care and I’m saying that as someone who plays a lot of killer lmao

  • Optx
    Optx Member Posts: 50
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  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    Killers will use what works, and these perks work currently. BHVR is fine with how things are currently, and will be reviewing this in a later update. Source: The Entity®.

  • MalekithHatesSnow
    MalekithHatesSnow Member Posts: 216
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    And then you'll complain just like pain resonance and demand it be nerfed again

  • DBD78
    DBD78 Member Posts: 3,454
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    You need to hook survivors and different ones for Pain..it's the opposite of unhealthy.

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
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    I’ve played for years. Other perks are too conditional/don’t provide consistent value. Gen regression is always the way to go. I don’t consider having s dead perk slot “fun.”

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,543
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    Your time doesn't mean much to us. Nothing provides consistent value. If your unable to proc your regression perks, do you get value? Aside from fun being subjective, we gave reasons and they are accurate.

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
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    Gen regression absolutely provides consistent value ( and even moreso in the past.) Meanwhile you have bad perks like coup de grace that only work after losing gens.

  • Nebula
    Nebula Member Posts: 1,394
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    Woah there, no need for Coup to catch strays like this. Coup is fantastic and one of the funniest perks in the game.

  • MissiCiv
    MissiCiv Member Posts: 41
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    Bro says that perks are unhealty that you need work for it to do acutally something, typical survivor main

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,543
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    That didn't answer the question...

    And coup gives value by giving chances of making the next down quicker for that gen. If it does its job and well how is it bad?

  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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    Yeah but it’s seen in every game the meta is stale now we need a new one and it’s not healthy when used with pop grim embrace DMS is it

  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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    I mean I play both sides and pretty good at that no one is gonna take you seriously with that outlook on weak killers it’s fine but when this combo is used by the strongest killers in the game it’s so unhealthy and you can’t justify it being as strong as it is

  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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    Pop got buffed and it’s basically stronger than it was when it first got introduced to the game you are forgetting it always hasn’t been 30%

  • Snowbawlzzz
    Snowbawlzzz Member Posts: 1,419
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    Now you're just being dishonest because I would trade this iteration in for release pop ANY day


    You only get more slowdown if you're kicking a 99% gen, most gens you kick are 30% of 50%, which is like what, 15% of total progress?

  • concubined
    concubined Member Posts: 140
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    There will always be perks on both sides that makes the game harder for the other, going down the road of complaining about every perk that is useful till it’s nerfed to the ground is what’s really “unhealthy”. The developers gave us an inch with the first meta shakeup update, how many miles are we gonna keep asking? I understand with actual game breaking un-counterable perk combos like FTP+Buckle where there’s just no counter play it is reasonable and worth to be asking for changes but gen slow downs are such a must in this current climate of the game and it’s necessity rises higher the higher mmr you reach. Please leave gen regression perks alone, last one killers got was COB and that was when I first bought the game. And survivors have been receiving gen progression/speed perks with each update without fail.

  • Nerfpopalready
    Nerfpopalready Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 87
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    I don’t want killers to have 0 slowdown perks that are viable trust me I play a lot of killer I think if nurse and blight didn’t exist basekit corrupt would be a great thing but all I’m trying to say is going Against pop and pain res every single match on top of grim embrace being used by the most oppressive killers in the game when quite frankly they don’t need it is so draining and just sucking the life out of the game atm

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,232
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    That's unfair to call for those nerfs. Games are too fast paced and Call of Brine/Overcharge got overly nerfed (they didn't need their regression percentage nerfed; they just needed to not stack with each other).

    Until the pace slows down many games will just be a race between can the Killer tunnel someone out before the survivors do enough gens that at least three can escape.

    Until there's a mechanic to slow things down in the early game and to speed repairs up after the survivors lose someone I think it's one sided to call for a nerf to Pain Res and Pop and would just make tunneling even worse. The idea of tunneling getting worse due to game changes always has its detractors but it's a valid point. There are only so many ways to slow down the game and give breathing room (ie quick downs, gen regression or blocking, slugging, tunneling) and if one of those becomes less effective another will take up the slack. It's not a coincidence that after tightening MMR and nerfing gen regression the incidences of tunneling rose noticeably.

    Given close to even MMRs the only Killers that can get quick downs consistently are Nurse and Blight so what are you suggesting Killers get in return for nerfing Pain Res and Pop? There's always two sides to the game and BHVR is happy with the current kill rates so which Killer buffs would you like to see in return?

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,327
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    And what would you replace them with? Because DBD doesn't work without gen regression. That's why killers have relied on it for the past 6 years (there wasn't much gen regression in year 1) no matter how good some other perks were.

  • catnip18
    catnip18 Member Posts: 149
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    That was before they increased gen time yea? It currently does 20 charges worth of damage (25% of 80), in its previous state it was 12 charges (20% of 60), between the gen increase and the pop increase it nearly doubled in value. If they cut it down to 20% it would be 16 charges, a 33% increase from its previous 20% state.

  • catnip18
    catnip18 Member Posts: 149
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    We're not the developers. We're not responsible for coming up with replacements, just saying what feels fun vs not. If you tell your doctor a medication is causing side effects and I told you 'well what other suggestions do you have' as if it was your job to help the doctor do his job I'd sound like an idiot.

  • not_Queef
    not_Queef Member Posts: 793
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    Nothing.

    I would let killrates on weaker killers plummet and then buff those killers.

    Like you say, killers spent 6 years inflating the stats with slowdowns and ensured that any buffs trickled out at the pace of a dead sloth.

    Imagine what Trapper could have been if killers didn't quiver with rage at the thought of losing a few games.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,130
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    Its the same for survivors though. There's a reason that survivors all run the same 6 perks and its the same reason killers all run the same 6 perks. Most perks are super niche and don't work in every scenario. Better to take the perks that a strong in almost every situation and always get value instead of perks that only MIGHT get value in a given game.

    The game is not designed for 4 survivors to be alive. So you nerf gen regression and all you'll get is even MORE tunneling and camping. It is not possible to play killer at a high level without gen defense and not lose most games you play.

    This i think is the ultimate solution in some way. Rather than blanket increase gen times again though they should buff base regression. They do this all the time with killer addons that feel "required" to play the killer. They nerf the addon then buff the basekit, so taking the addon is the same as it was before, but without the addon it doesn't feel as bad.


    They should do the same with gen defense perks, buff the basekit, nerf the perks. Maybe basekit gen kick goes to 10%, buff regression to 200%. Maybe a basekit mini corrupt that lasts 20-30 seconds. Then go nerf all the gen defense perks by a significant amount (like half, or even more). You would encourage killers to run other perks and then gen defense is less bursty and annoying.

  • wydyadoit
    wydyadoit Member Posts: 1,132
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    I think it's unfair that survivors can have 12 gen rush perks AND 4 toolboxes with brand new parts.

    But what do I know?.

    Deja vu, friendly competition, overzealous, potential energy, prove thyself, quick gambit, deadline, hyperfocus, object of obsession, resilience, scavenger, spine chill, this is not happening, technician, stake out, and toolboxes probably don't even stack...

  • GeneralSkien
    GeneralSkien Member Posts: 118
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    I can’t believe Pop is catching a stray cause his older sister is too strong. I was going to say that adding perk conflicts might be good, but the idea of stifling perk combos is very uninteresting and very boring.

    I hate to be the worlds most laughable centrist, but there are 1 types of perk the other side hates

    survivors hate Gen slowdown perks, and killers hate second chance perks. Both these types of perks are so strong and hated because they impede the other sides goal. Second chance perks prevent or delay the killer from killing, while gen slowdown slows generator completion.

    while an argument can be made that pain res is strong, pop is an insanely balance perk, that frankly doesn’t really need any strays

  • coolgue1
    coolgue1 Member Posts: 84
    edited March 12
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    for 1 everyone one and their mom was using pop and pain res way before the 8 gen kick limit sir that bull and lets get real here killers only want to use ground breaking perks and try to pass it off as if they did something to win the game main example STBFL everyone ran that perk until the itty bitt nerf because it was groundbreaking guess what, over a itty bitty nerf that made it actually balanced everyone stopped using. it's not about the only can kick gens 8 time that bull it all about what is over powered that will win them the game with least amount of effort that why everyone tunnels and camp and sluggs then they are pushed to high mmr then they complain that their match are too hard because they don't even belong half the mmr they the forced their way into

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,543
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    I guess that doesn't make us survivors then since we do not run the same 6 perks. Supose though your right in its the same that survivors dont run the meta for the reasons of fun, Intel, to not be predictable, to have advantages in certain scenarios that can't be solved via the meta.

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,677
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    I only play with 2 slow downs max because I find it boring, but honestly I can’t blame others for running them. There’s not much else to run.

    Chase perks are usually minor benefits or too niche, and they still give less pressure than regression. The only really good one was STBFL and that got nerfed.

    Tracking isn’t really needed when survivors aren’t really hiding anymore, and Distortion just makes auras useless.

    Stealth perks have too many conditions, and if you are already a stealth killer why do you need it?

    Why run anything else when everything else so outclassed by slowdown? The best fix would be to nerf all regression perks and give their strength to the other perks.

  • woundcowboy
    woundcowboy Member Posts: 1,994
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    It’s bad because it is predicated on losing gens. It’s better to not lose gens/lose them slower than to hope you’re in a position that coup gives you value. One of the reasons I think gen regression is in a poor place is because the devs have made gen regression more conditional than they used to be. Still, a small amount value is better than nothing, which is what you can get with most perks currently in the game.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,543
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    ok first the question was "If your unable to proc your regression perks, do you get value?".

    Second depending on our situation one is better for us than the other, we'd rather have those stacks of coup than a gen in the aft end of nowhere. Couple of examples being garden of joys manor and Hawkins portal room. Defiantly would rather the stacks than have that gen for last or somethin.

    Third, its getting more conditional because people keep stacking regression (yes, this is probably not the whole reason, but its way more than likely a factor) and if your getting no value out of anything but regression we dont know what to tell ya.

  • GeneralSkien
    GeneralSkien Member Posts: 118
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    There is a lot to be said here, but the main thing I wanna touch on is STBFL, it was too strong, but not for the intended reasons. Just 4 stacks was enough to turn camping from a trade, into 2 hooks, and in endgame that perk alone was way to strong.

    Many people still run STBFL to this day, mainly clowns (for some reason every clown runs this, no judgement but I am curious why) The usage rate didn’t drop because of an 8% reduction, almost all people were completely fine with that, killers and survivors. What caused to perk have it’s usage dropped by 50% is the special attack change, that made it weaker on demo (one of the killers that used it the most, although with the recent demo buff, this really isn’t too bad) and became absolutely useless on Slinger, because the act of downing the obsession effectively reset all your tokens by having the redeemer pierce itself count as a special attack, and not the damage.

    STBFL was problematic but for all the wrong reasons, it is in a balanced state now, but does need slight tweaking. A lot of People still use STBFL because it’s a good M1 killer perk