Can we address how unhealthy and unbearable pop pain res is
I can’t deal with pop pain res every single game I had 3 nurses in a row using pop pain res grim embrace it’s always the same stuff it’s making survivor unbearable
give pop 4 stacks like pain res and make it so you need to hook the 4 separate survivors for value
make pop 25-20%
make pain res 15%
its the two strongest most used killer perks in the game and nothing has been done about it and it’s getting so tiresome going against it every game
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Pop does have stacks it has 8 so does every other gen perk also the only time a killer gets value from pop is from hooks so if the same gen is being pop constantly you aren't winning
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There is no reason for killers to run perks other than gen regression.
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Gen regression perks in their current state are only manageable if your entire team is good at avoiding the killer. Seeing that much gen progress lost when you realize how long it took you to repair it is really depressing.
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I'm sure you could decrease their respective regression by 5% and be done with it.
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Fun, Intel, to not be predictable, to have advantages in certain scenarios that can't be solved via regresson.
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As much as I hate this combo, it's pretty funny when the killer stacks four slowdowns and still somehow manages to lose.
But yeah, these perks need to be nuked from orbit.
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5% is heavy handed. Pop saw little to no play at 20%.
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Killers will use what works, and these perks work currently. BHVR is fine with how things are currently, and will be reviewing this in a later update. Source: The Entity®.
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And then you'll complain just like pain resonance and demand it be nerfed again
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I'm really starting to think that survivors just don't want gen regression to exist at all
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You need to hook survivors and different ones for Pain..it's the opposite of unhealthy.
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Pop has had its ass nerfed off and it's not even one of the problematic slowdown perks (DMS, Grim)
PLUS you have to work for it. A bad chaser will get little to no value from pop.
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I’ve played for years. Other perks are too conditional/don’t provide consistent value. Gen regression is always the way to go. I don’t consider having s dead perk slot “fun.”
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Your time doesn't mean much to us. Nothing provides consistent value. If your unable to proc your regression perks, do you get value? Aside from fun being subjective, we gave reasons and they are accurate.
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What is unhealthy is how high tier killers can stack four regression perks. You just can't keep up with it at all in the average solo queue match. There are so many games where you just can't gt any momentum because of how hard regression hits you at the very beginning. Comeback potential always exists for killers and is non existent for survivors if you have a bad start.
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Gen regression absolutely provides consistent value ( and even moreso in the past.) Meanwhile you have bad perks like coup de grace that only work after losing gens.
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Woah there, no need for Coup to catch strays like this. Coup is fantastic and one of the funniest perks in the game.
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Bro says that perks are unhealty that you need work for it to do acutally something, typical survivor main
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That didn't answer the question...
And coup gives value by giving chances of making the next down quicker for that gen. If it does its job and well how is it bad?
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Want to know why Pop and Pain Res are the two most used perks in the game?
Because all other gen regression perks got heavily nerfed with the anti-3 gen system. Eruption will burn through 2 of your limited 8 regressions. You can't fully control which gens surge hits so easy to hit gens with little progress eating up a stack for practically nothing. Call of Brine and Overcharge got heavily nerfed from Eruption meta and now with the limited regression events are hardly worth the slot.
Pop and Pain Res get used, because they actually do something meaningful when the killer has a limited number of times they can damage a gen.
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Now you're just being dishonest because I would trade this iteration in for release pop ANY day
You only get more slowdown if you're kicking a 99% gen, most gens you kick are 30% of 50%, which is like what, 15% of total progress?
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Gens also take longer.
In a vacuum, old Pop was stronger. Outside of the vacuum, new Pop is stronger.
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There will always be perks on both sides that makes the game harder for the other, going down the road of complaining about every perk that is useful till it’s nerfed to the ground is what’s really “unhealthy”. The developers gave us an inch with the first meta shakeup update, how many miles are we gonna keep asking? I understand with actual game breaking un-counterable perk combos like FTP+Buckle where there’s just no counter play it is reasonable and worth to be asking for changes but gen slow downs are such a must in this current climate of the game and it’s necessity rises higher the higher mmr you reach. Please leave gen regression perks alone, last one killers got was COB and that was when I first bought the game. And survivors have been receiving gen progression/speed perks with each update without fail.
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From what I’ve seen, and I haven’t seen much I only got on the forums last month, killers’ complains on perks are far more reasonable than survivor’s. And I do not want this to come off rude but your name is literally “nerfpooalready”, seems tad bit ironic but I’m sure you have your reasons and mean well. I’m sorry about your experiences with nurses and blights, and you like running chase perks? Cool good for you, however I’d refrain from virtue signaling and shaming players for running perks of their choosing but that sounds more like an issue with nurse than it is about gen regression perks. A low tier killer like trapper or Myers running no slow downs is just as much or more of a pain than it is when you gen is damaged.
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That's unfair to call for those nerfs. Games are too fast paced and Call of Brine/Overcharge got overly nerfed (they didn't need their regression percentage nerfed; they just needed to not stack with each other).
Until the pace slows down many games will just be a race between can the Killer tunnel someone out before the survivors do enough gens that at least three can escape.
Until there's a mechanic to slow things down in the early game and to speed repairs up after the survivors lose someone I think it's one sided to call for a nerf to Pain Res and Pop and would just make tunneling even worse. The idea of tunneling getting worse due to game changes always has its detractors but it's a valid point. There are only so many ways to slow down the game and give breathing room (ie quick downs, gen regression or blocking, slugging, tunneling) and if one of those becomes less effective another will take up the slack. It's not a coincidence that after tightening MMR and nerfing gen regression the incidences of tunneling rose noticeably.
Given close to even MMRs the only Killers that can get quick downs consistently are Nurse and Blight so what are you suggesting Killers get in return for nerfing Pain Res and Pop? There's always two sides to the game and BHVR is happy with the current kill rates so which Killer buffs would you like to see in return?
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And what would you replace them with? Because DBD doesn't work without gen regression. That's why killers have relied on it for the past 6 years (there wasn't much gen regression in year 1) no matter how good some other perks were.
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That was before they increased gen time yea? It currently does 20 charges worth of damage (25% of 80), in its previous state it was 12 charges (20% of 60), between the gen increase and the pop increase it nearly doubled in value. If they cut it down to 20% it would be 16 charges, a 33% increase from its previous 20% state.
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We're not the developers. We're not responsible for coming up with replacements, just saying what feels fun vs not. If you tell your doctor a medication is causing side effects and I told you 'well what other suggestions do you have' as if it was your job to help the doctor do his job I'd sound like an idiot.
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Nothing.
I would let killrates on weaker killers plummet and then buff those killers.
Like you say, killers spent 6 years inflating the stats with slowdowns and ensured that any buffs trickled out at the pace of a dead sloth.
Imagine what Trapper could have been if killers didn't quiver with rage at the thought of losing a few games.
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I'll trade gen regression perks for gens taking 150 seconds each.
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#NerfPooAlready
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Its the same for survivors though. There's a reason that survivors all run the same 6 perks and its the same reason killers all run the same 6 perks. Most perks are super niche and don't work in every scenario. Better to take the perks that a strong in almost every situation and always get value instead of perks that only MIGHT get value in a given game.
The game is not designed for 4 survivors to be alive. So you nerf gen regression and all you'll get is even MORE tunneling and camping. It is not possible to play killer at a high level without gen defense and not lose most games you play.
This i think is the ultimate solution in some way. Rather than blanket increase gen times again though they should buff base regression. They do this all the time with killer addons that feel "required" to play the killer. They nerf the addon then buff the basekit, so taking the addon is the same as it was before, but without the addon it doesn't feel as bad.
They should do the same with gen defense perks, buff the basekit, nerf the perks. Maybe basekit gen kick goes to 10%, buff regression to 200%. Maybe a basekit mini corrupt that lasts 20-30 seconds. Then go nerf all the gen defense perks by a significant amount (like half, or even more). You would encourage killers to run other perks and then gen defense is less bursty and annoying.
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Ahh, but with your doctor you wouldn't have a discussion. We are literally in the forum section labelled as "General Discussions". I'd say that's a little different from a visit to the doctor.
That is not going to work. Because buffing killers to the point where they can play normally without any gen regression is next to impossible, if you want the game to remain fun. Chases would need to be so short that there really isn't much fun to be had in the interaction between killers and survivors.
The alternative is to slow the game itself, which also has the same issue. Survivors already don't like side objectives. Any more complexity added to gens to slow their progress isn't going to work out much better.
Both also have the unpleasant side effect that killers would lose by default until the buffs are implemented. You can't do both at once because then it's close to impossible to find the right balance and killers sure won't like feeling like the next 3 months are going to be horrible for them. The same would happen, if the roles were reversed.
Imagine what Trapper could have been if killers didn't quiver with rage at the thought of losing a few games.
I honestly have no idea, what you'd do with Trapper. His kit lacks the complexity to ever bring him up to par with the more balanced killers. But BHVR want Trapper to remain simple. So there is not a whole lot you could do.
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I think it's unfair that survivors can have 12 gen rush perks AND 4 toolboxes with brand new parts.
But what do I know?.
Deja vu, friendly competition, overzealous, potential energy, prove thyself, quick gambit, deadline, hyperfocus, object of obsession, resilience, scavenger, spine chill, this is not happening, technician, stake out, and toolboxes probably don't even stack...
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I can’t believe Pop is catching a stray cause his older sister is too strong. I was going to say that adding perk conflicts might be good, but the idea of stifling perk combos is very uninteresting and very boring.
I hate to be the worlds most laughable centrist, but there are 1 types of perk the other side hates
survivors hate Gen slowdown perks, and killers hate second chance perks. Both these types of perks are so strong and hated because they impede the other sides goal. Second chance perks prevent or delay the killer from killing, while gen slowdown slows generator completion.
while an argument can be made that pain res is strong, pop is an insanely balance perk, that frankly doesn’t really need any strays
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for 1 everyone one and their mom was using pop and pain res way before the 8 gen kick limit sir that bull and lets get real here killers only want to use ground breaking perks and try to pass it off as if they did something to win the game main example STBFL everyone ran that perk until the itty bitt nerf because it was groundbreaking guess what, over a itty bitty nerf that made it actually balanced everyone stopped using. it's not about the only can kick gens 8 time that bull it all about what is over powered that will win them the game with least amount of effort that why everyone tunnels and camp and sluggs then they are pushed to high mmr then they complain that their match are too hard because they don't even belong half the mmr they the forced their way into
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Surge was used quite often before the 8 gen kick when it got changed to cause survivors to scream. I even saw a few people using Overcharge + Call of Brine. Even an occasional Eruption after it's nerf. These perks are dead with the 8 gen kick.
Also STBFL never deserved the nerf it got. It was a perk that helped M1 focused killers to shorten their chase times and it was a perk the best killers were already not using since they couldn't get value from it. It was never too strong.
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I guess that doesn't make us survivors then since we do not run the same 6 perks. Supose though your right in its the same that survivors dont run the meta for the reasons of fun, Intel, to not be predictable, to have advantages in certain scenarios that can't be solved via the meta.
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I only play with 2 slow downs max because I find it boring, but honestly I can’t blame others for running them. There’s not much else to run.
Chase perks are usually minor benefits or too niche, and they still give less pressure than regression. The only really good one was STBFL and that got nerfed.
Tracking isn’t really needed when survivors aren’t really hiding anymore, and Distortion just makes auras useless.
Stealth perks have too many conditions, and if you are already a stealth killer why do you need it?
Why run anything else when everything else so outclassed by slowdown? The best fix would be to nerf all regression perks and give their strength to the other perks.
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It’s bad because it is predicated on losing gens. It’s better to not lose gens/lose them slower than to hope you’re in a position that coup gives you value. One of the reasons I think gen regression is in a poor place is because the devs have made gen regression more conditional than they used to be. Still, a small amount value is better than nothing, which is what you can get with most perks currently in the game.
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ok first the question was "If your unable to proc your regression perks, do you get value?".
Second depending on our situation one is better for us than the other, we'd rather have those stacks of coup than a gen in the aft end of nowhere. Couple of examples being garden of joys manor and Hawkins portal room. Defiantly would rather the stacks than have that gen for last or somethin.
Third, its getting more conditional because people keep stacking regression (yes, this is probably not the whole reason, but its way more than likely a factor) and if your getting no value out of anything but regression we dont know what to tell ya.
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There is a lot to be said here, but the main thing I wanna touch on is STBFL, it was too strong, but not for the intended reasons. Just 4 stacks was enough to turn camping from a trade, into 2 hooks, and in endgame that perk alone was way to strong.
Many people still run STBFL to this day, mainly clowns (for some reason every clown runs this, no judgement but I am curious why) The usage rate didn’t drop because of an 8% reduction, almost all people were completely fine with that, killers and survivors. What caused to perk have it’s usage dropped by 50% is the special attack change, that made it weaker on demo (one of the killers that used it the most, although with the recent demo buff, this really isn’t too bad) and became absolutely useless on Slinger, because the act of downing the obsession effectively reset all your tokens by having the redeemer pierce itself count as a special attack, and not the damage.
STBFL was problematic but for all the wrong reasons, it is in a balanced state now, but does need slight tweaking. A lot of People still use STBFL because it’s a good M1 killer perk
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A lot of these arguments go to extremes really fast for some reason, people view the act of having perks as a cardinal sin, and all rational thinking gets though gets thrown out of the window and the argument always will get to a point where it’s just “My Side should be allowed to have perks, the other side shouldn’t cause of X, Y, and Z!” Always, people go way to far and it ends up like this, to be fair I did this too at one point, but it’s easy to get emotional when talking about this game. For some reason….
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you can buff stbfl and I'll stop using pop.
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Although you might have said it as a joke, it does bring to mind a main problem when a killer picks perks. There is no reason NOT to bring slowdown perks, because slowdown is just a necessary evil. Gens will Fly without slowdown, so fun builds get kinda crushed under the heel that is good survivors or SWFs. I personally love to run spirit fury and enduring cause it’s fun and funny as hell, but I can’t get consistent wins because gens flyby so fast in higher MMR it’s absurd. If these non slowdown perks were stronger, more people would use them?
Post edited by GeneralSkien on4 -
"Its in every game" ask yourself why that is instead of just knee jerk "IT MUST BE NERFED!" instead
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Maybe Repressed Alliance should be used more. When triggered before Pain Res, the -25% cannot affect the blocked gen. If multiple ppl ran it and use it right before a PR hook, the effect might be transferred to a gen with just a few progress, waisting one of the PR charges.
RA could really use a buff, though. Reducing charges required to activate, maybe even adaptable. So you get 5 seconds base time, can charge it up like normally through gen repair, but activate it at any time.
RA could be a really solid anti-pick against PR and gen-kick regression perks (most notably pop), if the devs just gave it a bit of love.
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I think we will end up seeing Pop get stacks in the future and yeah it is incredibly tedious to go against but honestly it isn't anywhere near as unbearable as the old Eruption/COB gen kicking meta was.
I actually stopped playing DBD for months as the Eruption/COB meta was so unbearable for me and while this current meta is annoying, DBD moves from one annoying gen control meta to the next and it will probably continue
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Gen regression will ALWAYS be the best perks to run you'll always get value from them because survivors will always do gens and on every killer you're always gonna have to defend gens. It's nice to play with niche perks from time to time but you almost never get value from a lot of perks especially totem ones undetectable builds can be made useless by SWF same with Oblivious perks and if you run purely chase builds you're gonna need to play "scummy" since gens will go by really fast.
Until Survivors get a secondary objective/the game is changed to be based more around chases there will always be a meta gen regress perk and there'll always be a gen regress perk that is complained about
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Make Base kicks do 15% and Gens take 120 seconds and you can nerf Pop/ Rez. Until then they are fine.
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