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Developers cater to the minority of their player base
Survivors vs Killer. 4v1. always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to. The people who experience MORE of the game should be getting the 60% escape rate. The justification I have seen around the 40/60 killrate-vs-escaperate is laughable, at best. "We want the killer to seem powerful and scary"... Then make the game more scary and fun? Don't balance the game to be less than 50/50? Why is it that the majority of the player base is experiencing losses more often than wins? This makes no sense to me. This is the only game I've ever experienced where I have put in 1000 hours and my win rate is still below 50% (and will remain so, because the developers coddle the killer player base). Please consider balancing for your majority player base and get those numbers closer to 60/40. If that is unacceptable and you still need to coddle to solo-players with a power complex, then at least make it 50/50.
This game has gotten exponentially less fun for survivors, unless you are coordinated and playing with a team. I have been playing for roughly 2 years and I am so sick of each update making killers more and more powerful with no addressing issues that have been plaguing the game forever. Gen rushing, tunneling, map balance, vault speed, heal speed, slugging, etc etc etc. Not addressing core issues like slugging and tunneling (and even hook camping, still (proxy)) seems to be blatant disregard for the fun and majority of the player base. These are issues that could be at least temporarily resolved with simply adjusting some numbers (such as base kit BT, Base kit unbreakable, and base kit kindred).
These issues are annoying enough for seasoned players, but the fact that perks like bond, unbreakable, and windows of opportunity are not base kit is horrible for new players as well. The amount of times I have tried to introduce a friend to this game only to play for OVER an hour and not get a single escape is not acceptable.
The game has gotten so unbelievably frustrating to play for survivors (but even killers, from some community members, I hear), especially with this new update. Weaving spiders is a joke and a horrible perk design, the double pallets and main building on the new map are horrible, and the new killer is incredibly overpowered (speed, teleporting, etc).
I know for a fact this post will be called out by a bunch of mid-ladder killers who feel the need to "win" every game. 1 kill and 2 kills isn't enough. Gotta get all 4 and then leave the last guy to bleed out on the ground while tea-bagging him... That's the thing, right??? Look - When the killer gets to "win", it's dynamic. It's subjective. You could feel good about getting 1 kill if it was a guy who was really good in chase. But with survivors, every person who doesn't get to escape is a real player who is experiencing a "loss".
The inability to guarantee yourself an escape no matter how good you are vs the ability to get at least 1 kill no matter how BAD you are, is stark and easily observed.
The easiest thing to speak to this is how decent killer players can get 50+ 3k/4k streaks in a row, but there is no way to guarantee a 50 (or even 10) streak with 3+ survivors escaping, even with SWF.
Fix this! Most killer players seem to have an ego and power complex issue. I feel as though they are likely being coddled simply because they are the "powerful" presence in the community. They are the ones who have (more of) the ability to be toxic, dictate the sportsmanship of the game, and be a demanding, loud, and uncooperative presence on the forums.
I totally understand this post has a lot of "us vs them" language, and a lot of visible frustration. While some of this may be me just venting my feelings and frustration as someone who has devoted a ton of time to this game, I do believe some of it is also a fair critique. I hope readers can pick and choose what they believe to be a valid critique rather than writing off the whole post/discussion simply because I've been the victim of some really horrible games tonight, and I'm frustrated with the game, lol.
Comments
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Gave up ready after the 3rd line. You not know how an asymmetrical game suppose to work? The one killer player needs to have more power than the 4 survivor players. If you want a 'balanced' asymmetrical game go play Death Garden and see how that game turned out.
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Death Garden was far from balanced, Veteran killed the game
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Looks like someone just created to an account to complain after they probably deservedly lost a match
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"I an asymmetrical game, one person is supposed to mostly win and the other people are supposed to mostly lose that is the definition of balanced".
I don't agree with op's reverse 60-40 rule but I do agree with the sentiment of the post. Survivor is absolute ass to play. All of the fun of playing survivor just keeps getting sucked away by the devs. They seem to have some fascination with buffing killers even though noone asked for those buffs and taking from survivors.
They say they want a 60% kill rate but I personally believe 70% is the real target.
The only fun thing that I can think of that survivors received in years was the HUD addition. Everything else was either a hand holding mechanic that does your job for you or removal of mechanics/fun. All items nerfed into the ground. Any fun perk obliterated into uselessness thanks to their logic if if people use them they must be too strong. Increasing the amount of time doing skillchecks, reducing chase time and removing interactions between killer and survivor.
The long term trend for survivors fun is trending down. Latest patch was a massive amount of killer buffs (see my 70% target above). Not even a single perk buff for survivors.
The trend is your friend. It will only get worse for survivor players.
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I knew there would be people like you! Bummer. Closed minded, loud, and unable to listen to others perspectives. Selfish way to think about the community of the game you love.
Before DBD, asym games mostly consisted of genres where it was "how many (survivors) can you take down before you are taken down, yourself". It was never "the powerful presence gets to kill the entire (survivor) team, almost every time". Think of Halo Juggernaut, Evolve, BO2 turned, Far Cry Instincts: Predator, and even early-day DBD. It's only recently that people (like you) seem to think that "asymmetrical PVP" means that the "powerful" presence should get priority, and be able to get the majority of the "wins" against the larger, less powerful playerbase.
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I agree with this. It'd be nice if they stopped making survivor the most lukewarm, bland, role to play. Adding some more fun items or buffing "fun" perks that add some spice to the game would help me forget about the lack of balance, even for a bit (kinda like the halloween event did, this past year. I loved that month!).
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Lost 11 matches (in a row) actually. 900hrs on survivor. I do think there is a "skill issue", to some extent (i am not the most incredible player out there. probably average). But that's kinda my point. The "average player"s experience as survivor has gotten worse, while killers have had their hand held through countless buffs, changes, and new introductions of mechanics. I just wish survivor (the majority of the playerbase) got the same treatment, like they used to!
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Doesn't matter how many survivor players there are, you guys still need someone to play killer if you want to play the game.
Since the killer is facing 4 individual characters, they need to be slightly stronger. There was a time not so long ago when survivors had long queue times bc the game heavily favored them.
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Also LOL Bond, Unbreakable and WoO should be basekit for survivors? And also "guaranteeing escapes"? Have you ever played killer? I started playing this game a long time ago but I remember how frustrating it is being a new survivor. Brand new solo queue survivor is probably the most miserable position to be in. But you cannot buff all survivors just because of how difficult it is to be a brand new player. As killer, I usually play against what I can easily tell are experienced survivor players. They all know the maps and know how to loop and mindgame. It's already hard enough to beat these players, especially when they're coordinating perks and talking on comms. Giving these players a bunch of free perks means killers will just get stomped even harder.
When you're a brand new player, you just need to accept getting stomped on both sides. I can't think of another online game where this isn't the case. That's the way that I and every other long-time player had to tough it out at the beginning. I'm a very casual, average skill level player and yes solo queue sucks sometimes, but I also have some very fun matches where I and my teammates are able to easily beat the killer. If you're losing every single game badly, it's probably more of an individual skill issue.
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Well said and agree with every single word, at least you had the energy to write it.
Btw, I also played some matches and survivors never won. Never seen any other game that had balance as horrible as DBD. That is so incredibly one sided.
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Please list these "countless" killer buffs. I can think of maybe a couple. I can also think of a few survivor buffs. Both sides have been adjusted over the years, and there hasn't been one side that has seen a disproportionate amount of buffs or nerfs.
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Not really. Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base, and I think right now it's closer to 40-45% if the stats I read were correct (which they very well may not be. I'll admit). If some healthy changes to the game make some people pick up survivor instead of killer, that would be healthy for the game. Decreasing queue times and helping SBMM be more accurate.
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I would like to see you play a game of dbd with no one playing killer.
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We've been there, tried that and it didn't work out.
Back in 2021 we had a time when pretty much nobody wanted to play killer and yet many survivors still weren't happy. And the kill rates weren't that bad either. The queue times for survivors back then however were 10+ minutes (almost all day iirc) but the killer queue times weren't longer than 10 seconds.
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They can buff killers sure but they need to make playstyles thay are easy for the killer to force a win down the drain it dont matter if the make killer the most op thing people will still take the most easy way out and try to call it or skill even doe we all k ow it now u can buff the cannibals Cain say all you want but at the end of the day most will still camp and trade hooks because that what easy not about having fun or playing the game it just about winning and that all killer care about these day not about having fun or play the game or getting good plays in it all about winning at any cost regardless of what gets introduced
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I aint reading all that
you need 5 people to make a match, stop arguing that you should only ever cater to survivors because if nobody plays killer you wont be able to play either
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I have ~1400 hours split just about evenly between Survivor and Killer. Doing a spot check of my stats, if I'm reading the DBD info site I have close to a 70% escape rate (personally I'm taking that with a grain of salt as I am skeptical). About 60/40 split for me on solo / swf (typically duos).
While I can understand the frustration at losing streaks sometimes, I just can't see a world where an individual on a team should be capable of guaranteeing an escape. The power of survivors is in numbers and working together - if every single person were able to guarantee an escape for themselves, it would effectively mean that everyone would escape every time.
You mentioned "Gen rushing" under your post in the game issues section but traditionally that refers to survivors rushing generators so I'm not sure what the complaint there is.
All that being said, I'd really love to see some anti-tunneling protection available for newer players without them buying the Halloween DLC / Zarina - losing the Stranger Things base perks really highlighted the need for a base perk overhaul for both sides. Many of them are bad or outright traps. I'd also love a little more 'signaling' for solo queue so you can let people know you're headed for a rescue, but I'm guessing we won't see that.
I don't think that "Git gud" is useful advice. I do however think that it's important to analyze what you're doing in game and whether you could have done anything differently / what mistakes were being made. Sometimes you get hard tunneled or your teammates are having a corner party doing the beckon gesture at someone's butt. Other times it's bad pathing, bad awareness, or lack of killer knowledge.
Obviously I can't talk you out of being mad about a string of bad games, but maybe take a break or take a while and play killer. I promise it is not all sunshine and rainbows on that side of things when you're playing a mid tier killer against decent survivors.
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7.6.0 -
The Unknown is one of the most broken killers ever introduced to the game. Not overpower perks, but really strong map control, chase, and special attack. (both sides agree about this)
unbound, unforseen, undone are all stronger than wicked, weaving spiders, and strength in shadows (subjective)
Greenville Square has bad map balance (both sides agree about this)
Huntress buff
Hag buff
Pig Buff
Doctor buff
Deme buff
Clown Buff
Blight Buff
7.5.1 -
Billy Buff
Onryo Buff
7.5.0
FOV buff
Gen tapping removed
7.4.2
Trickster Buff
Batteries Included Buff
7.4.0
MFT nerf
Stranger things perks removed from common bloodweb (net negative for all players, but 6 perks lost for survivor and 3 lost for killer)
Red Forest map size reduction
Garden of Joy main house nerf
7.3.0
Skull merchant buff
Trapper Buff
Huntress Buff
Deathslinger Buff
Legion Buff
Trickster Buff
7.2.0
Ultimate Weapon introduced (overpowered)
Knight Buff
Demo Buffed
7.1.0
5 killer perks buffed, 1 nerfed
3 survivor perks buffed, 6 nerfed
Cowshed nerf
Spirit Buff
Hag buff
Need me to keep going? In contract survivors have gotten
- anti face camp
- gens can only be kicked 8 times (instead of unlimited)
- Mangled nerf
- background player buffed
Those are literally the only things we have gotten. And most of those things affect literal game-breaking playstyles that toxic killers have tended to use more and more recently (3 gen locking and face camping). Only the Mangled nerf and Background player buff have actually had a positive effect on survivor players that does not directly address a problem with the core playstyles of the game.
Both sides have been adjusted, yes. Survivor mostly Quality-of-life improvements, while killer gets actual movement speed, reload speed, special power, and perk buffs. Hope this helps.
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Hmm. you seem to have not read my post. I said with currently 40-45% of the player base being killer mains, a few could definitely leave and it would be no problem, since only 20% of the playerbase needs to be killer, at any given point. I never advocated for zero killer-mains... You seem to be falling into the "I'm a killer and without me the game wouldn't exist" ego trap. Keep an eye out for that! It's not healthy for the game or the community. :)
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Interesting. This seems mostly anecdotal (I haven't been able to find any stats on this in the few mins I've been trying to research your claim). To counter, I will simply say that, anecdotally, I was getting faster queue times in 2021 and 2022 than I currently am. I am NA West.
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I think I understand the point you are trying to make? Yes - There are definitely a lot of killers who will try to get a "W" by any means necessary, even if it means toxic and unfun playstyles. I don't think this is every killer though (we don't have 100% of the killer base playing nurse with iri-add-ons, lol). Seems to be anecdotal. Most of my issues with the game right now are direct faults of developers action to cater to the minority of their playerbase. It'd be cool if there was a culture shift and recognizing that this is unhealthy for the longevity of the game.
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You commented on my post where I said that you need killers to be able to play the game.
I get you don't care about the killer experience and you just want easy escapes, but the fact is having those means you'll struggle to get games bc who will want to play killer in that state.
Not to mention the devs do give survivors stuff, it's not like killers are the only one getting stuff. Mangled literally just got nerfed and facecamping was recently killed as a playstyle.
Also for the record despite a new chapter released with a new killer today, and I personally saw a 100% bonus for killer the entire night. So people are still playing survivor in high enough numbers that there wasn't even enough killer players to even the queue times. You don't need special treatment because you lost some games.
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Look at this list and take a step back.
Now tell me how it's not going to get worse for survivor players.
That list shows the trend. It will only continue.
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Bummer you don't want to read the post but still chose to respond! You have time to share your opinion but not try to see from others perspectives! That is part of the problem I tried to highlight in my post...
Your response seems to be mostly "deal with it", which a lot of us survivor players have been doing, for the last year or so as this problem has progressively gotten worse.
If you actually chose to read the post you will see that I am not advocating for "only catering to survivors". I simply think the balance should be closer to 50/50 (kill vs escape), or maybe 60% escape, 40% kill, since more players will get to experience the "winning" aspect of the game, with killers still being able to guarantee secure at least one kill per match.
Additionally, I mentioned this in another response above yours that it seems like you didn't take the time to read before sharing your opinion on the subject... - Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base, and I think right now it's closer to 40-45% if the stats I read were correct (which they very well may not be. I'll admit). If some healthy changes to the game make some people pick up survivor instead of killer, that would be healthy for the game. Decreasing queue times and helping SBMM be more accurate.
Post edited by Rizzo on2 -
I'm not sure there are any official data on that but I'm pretty sure other players remember that as well. It got really bad when they tried hit validation on pallets, windows and worst of all DH. I remember queueing up with a friend and waiting 20+ minutes for a survivor game (admittedly it was at night when survivor queues in EUW are always longer).
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I appreciate the anecdotal stats, I really do! You seem to be very good at the game, and that is awesome. I am not that awesome, and I am making my post mostly as an "average player". The stats that I see of SWF escaping roughly 30-40% of the time posted by BHVR is optimistic. My personal stats post-update have been 16 games played, and zero escapes. Again - anecdotal data. It's just my word vs someone elses, ofc.
I've never had a "streak" I can be frustrated over, on survivor (maybe 3?). My best killer streak for 3k or higher was 14, on dredge, back in December. Again - I am not a "good" killer or survivor player. Just average.
Anecdotal data aside, the 30-40% escape rate BHVR reports for solo queue escapes is just plain abysmal to experience, especially as a newer/more average player. This is raw data directly from them that highlights a problem for the vast majority of their player base (survivors), and doesn't even include games where players disconnect (which is a lot, during solo queue).
Gen rushing is a problem, IMO. Gen rush perks and toolboxes are boring and make the game more about "how quickly can I get back to this generator and hold left click" rather than teamwork or chase, which I find to be more engaging.
I really appreciate your post. You seem to be above all of this emotional gameplay I am experiencing, lol. I wish I could be more like you and share your perspective. It seems very objective. Keep up the level headed approach! It's really a breath of fresh air.
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Your lucky to have 40% win rate as survivor.
Don't spout stats when you can't factor out your own bias.
Survivors have many ways to throw and/or leave the game EVERY GAME. I just listed 8 things a few days ago so I won't now.
Survivors want to be inefficient, survivors are inefficient. One totem, one archive, one rift, one corner map self care, one fruitless flashlight save, not splitting.
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I appreciate the points you bring up here. I addressed them all in some other replies, as well.
I never advocated for "easy escapes". I simply think the stats of the game should reflect a positive experience for the majority of the player base, rather than the minority. This is currently not the case, and i am feeling it, tonight. lol.
A few minutes before responding to you, I posted the last 5 major updates and shown just how much killer has been prioritized over survivor. It's been pretty rough. Check that post out, if you have the time.
I had a BP bonus for survivor, all night ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. It's anecdotal data, just like yours. My problem isn't with anecdotal data (me losing 16 games in a row tonight. I understand that can "just happen" sometimes, and I am OK with that). My problem is with the actual official stats of the game (patch notes, escape rate, balance, etc) catering to the minority of the player base. I hope that makes a bit more sense.
I do understand where you are coming from. Killer players are really important. It would be cool if there was a way to adjust these stats and balance the game more towards the majority of the players having a good time, without making it un-fun for killer. I think this is possible, still. Getting 1k or 2k should feel more rewarding, and not baseline/expected, like it is right now. The way it is right now (statistically) relies on more than half of the player base "losing" and getting removed from the game more than half the time, and I think that's unhealthy and unacceptable. What do you think?
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No it's true back when the game was easier to data mine it got revealed the ratio was something like 4 killers for every 100 survivors much below the ratio needed for a reasonably fast queue and it was the closest DBD ever got to actually collapsing and dying and is IMO what spurred the massive 6.1 changes.
This was back when hatch spawned with 2-3 people still in the game DH was the most broken perk in the game and the DS/Unbreakable combo was rampant. Killer was miserable to play at that time as it felt like you needed permission from survivors to play the game as you had so many perks to deny hooks and downs.
Is the game too far in the other direction now? Hard to say I do well in both roles so I have a hard time thinking it's that horribly balanced although killer is undeniably the easier role now IMO I don't think that's the worst thing in the world given this is a horror game. The ease of killer should probably be toned down but I have zero problem with killer being the "power role" so to speak as a threat should have teeth to it otherwise it's not worth overcoming.
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While I do understand where you are coming from, I think the "you're* lucky to have 40% win rate as a survivor" is not a healthy statement for the longevity and community of the game. This is textbook patronizing and condescending language. Why do you feel survivors are "lucky" to have 40%? Don't you agree that "balanced' would mean 50/50 on both sides? My personal opinion (as stated in the post) is that survivors should ideally be slightly more catered to, since that would mean more players are having a positive experience, in any given game.
Lastly, you listed off a few survivor-objectives that you seem to have a negative opinion of. Why shouldn't survivors be able to do totems, self heals, rifts, objectives, etc? Shouldn't we be encouraging more playstyles rather than just "m1 on generator"? It'd be cool for survivors to be able to experiment with different gameplay like this without it being excruciatingly punishing for the rest of the players in the match. Especially with newer players who are still trying to figure the game out and will likely spend more time cleansing, exploring, hiding, etc. These are valid playstyles, even if they aren't yours (or mine, either, lmfao).
What do you think? Interested to hear more, of course
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I do think that killer should remain the "power role" it would be cool if this meant that survivors could still escape and/or not be removed from the match so quickly. For example, digging more into the "horror" aspect, making chase more lucrative and rewarding, and truly surprising, scaring, or catching survivors off guard. It would be cool if it could be more like that rather than controlling gameplay styles of survivors, and getting 3k average against solo queues. I have a big issue with the fact that, if a killer wants you out of the game, you will get out of the game, no matter what. That's a bummer.
I believe you about the queue times. That is interesting. That sounds like a problematic time to be playing as killer, for sure. If i recall correctly, they released the "target goal" of 60% win rate around this time, and posted (happily) that they achieved this in September of 2022. Sept 2022 balance felt much better than it currently does, IMO. What do you think?
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Yes, the one player needs to have more power then a single survivor, but not more power then all 4 combined.
And thats the issue.
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You know what, unless there's something really crazy here, I'm gonna sit this one out.
Seems like this one is gonna be fun to watch.
Post edited by Rizzo on1 -
You know what, that's a fair point, so I'll open my mind. Let's address both your original post and your response to me. I'm not going to respond to every line, mostly due to overlapping responses, so if you don't have a speciifc point get it's own address it's probably addressed somewhere else. I also cut any paragraphs that I think were addressing specific games you had played that day.
Survivors vs Killer. 4v1. always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to.
No. You shouldn't be catering to either side. Argue you think the game is catering to killers all you want, but "they should cater to survivors instead" isn't a point you should be making.
The people who experience MORE of the game should be getting the 60% escape rate.
Doesn't the killer technically experience more of the game, given they're the only participant essentially forced to be present for all of it?
Why is it that the majority of the player base is experiencing losses more often than wins?
This fundamentally depends on your definition of a win. From my own data (~500 games played over the last two months, split 60/40 survivor/killer) 0/1/2k matches are equally likely to happen compared to 3k/4k matches. From the perspective of "2 escapes = win", the game is balanced.
[Issues such as] Gen rushing, tunneling,
Both are just pushing your objective optimally, and shouldn't be addressed. If you dont want to get gen rushed apply pressure better, if you don't want to get tunneled loop better.
map balance,
A lost cause. Making every map equivalently balanced would mean you'd have to make them the same. I prefer map variety, to be honest.
heal speed,
Heals are currently well-balanced, and we just got a nerf to mangled to buff healing slightly.
slugging
Was attempted to be fixed by basekit unbreakable but was poorly recieved by basically the whole community.
and even hook camping, still (proxy)
Proxy camping leaves openings for unhooks to happen. Your team being less skilled than their opponent is not a problem the devs should fix for you.
the fact that perks like bond, unbreakable, and windows of opportunity are not base kit is horrible for new players as well.
Basekit windows would be horrible for me as an Object of Obsession player - more visual noise to contend with isn't what I want. I can see the benefit of basekit Bond, though.
The game has gotten so unbelievably frustrating to play for survivors (but even killers, from some community members, I hear), especially with this new update.
Which at time of original posting had been out for... less than 12 hours! I've heard of not giving things a chance to settle but this is a new level of instant-reaction.
The inability to guarantee yourself an escape no matter how good you are vs the ability to get at least 1 kill no matter how BAD you are, is stark and easily observed.
You are part of a team. You will obviously, then, lose as a team. Your individual skill is 1/4 of the puzzle. And as I said earlier, your team's failings are not BHVR's job to fix.
Your response seems to be mostly "deal with it", which a lot of us survivor players have been doing, for the last year or so as this problem has progressively gotten worse.
I know. I mostly play survivor. My response to the way the meta has shifted (ever so slightly towards killer but still on the whole balanced) has been to improve. I started 1v1ing recently to get more direct feedback, even. It's been fun.
If you actually chose to read the post you will see that I am not advocating for "only catering to survivors".
So when you said "Survivors vs Killer. 4v1. always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to." That... wasn't you saying the game should be catering to survivors?
Killer players think they are super important but in reality they aren't (again, back to that ego/power complex thing. It's real!). They only need to make up 20% of the player base
And if they make up 0% of the playerbase, nobody gets to play! Both sides of this game are important.
I look forward to your snarky response of "I aint reading all that".
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The justification I have seen around the 40/60 killrate-vs-escaperate is laughable, at best. "We want the killer to seem powerful and scary"Well, its a little more than that. The tension from playing survivor comes over the escape. There is lots of deadtime as survivor where you are on a gen, on a hook, etc. where the excitement comes from wondering if you can actually escape. I love survivor and even when I'm on a gen I'm really tense because I know it doesn't take much at all to swing the game in the killer's favor.
I think the game is too tilted in favor of the killers at the moment, but I feel like if I was winning more than 50% of my games as survivor I'd probably find something else to play.
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always 4x more people than killer experiencing any given match. THESE are the players you should be catering to
I'm sure sitting in queue for 10+ minutes would be a lovely experience for them just to go against the few remaining killers who are guaranteed to be sweating for the win. Not sure if you played dbd a few years ago but survivor queues were miserable.
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If you make killer weaker than survivor, noone will want to play killer, and then you don't have a game.
The game already forces you to play pretty hardball on Killer if you don't want 5 gens to pop in 4 minutes, 1 inefficient chase and you're in a desperate scramble from that point on. Literally every killer build, regardless of skill or chill will have AT LEAST 1 slowdown perk, because otherwise you are quite likely to get smashed even if you're super efficient on downs...
I eventually realised playing this game, you can't really enjoy it if you go hard on playing to win. I could take Sprint Burst, WoO, OTR and Distortion with Commodius + BNP + max charges, or I could play Blight with Pop, Pain Res, GE and No Way Out... but why would I?
Neither of these things are fun or interesting, but there are people who run these kind of builds, and you have to accept you'll face them time to time. Taking this game too seriously will kill your enjoyment faster than anything any other player will ever do.
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No side is more important than the other BUT you do need more players on the survivor side than killer side. Also this game is very unwelcoming to new players and if you want to have a healthy successful game you need to keep your veteran players and also welcome new players. For my area the BP is on survivior 90% of the time which tells me less people are playing survivor, hmm wonder why? 🤔
For me personally I don't think 60% - 40% is balanced, why would players want to play a game where you die majority of the time and the devs actually encourage it.
I play mostly solo q but I have been trying to put together a 4 man SWF group because I'm sick of playing games where it's basically pointless unless I just expect to die in the majority of my games.
I have seen the last few patches are giving buffs to killer while the survivor role is left (unless it's a very well coordinated swf) to suffer.
We've got a serious problem with tunneling yet any perk to help counter it is nerfed (DS, MFT) which just makes the act itself easier to do. We've got a horrible meta now of gen regression and gen blocking but is it seen as a problem by devs? Nah 🙄
But ultimately the biggest issue is MMR, average players should be paired with other average players, new players should be paired with new players and highly skilled players should only be paired with highly skilled players. I genuinely think the survivor role is losing players and MMR are mixing the groups together more rather then separating them which is what is causing so many issues (that and buffs to killers that no one asked for looking at you Huntress and Hag).
That's my take, thank you for coming to my Ted talk 😁
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if i remember correctly the times of long survivor qs arent gone for too long. i dont want to say that right now everything is fair and bhvr still needs to do stuff cause i can see why many survs are not happy but just saying: "we are four so we should matter more" is pure bs
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And what about those who play both sides?
Maybe you should play some killer until the good players are going against you. Then tell me again if survivor is hard or not.
I have 7k hrs and have played for 5.5 years. True tunneling and camping were getting more popular over the time (I guess also some famous content creators are to blame for that). And it is also true that if you are the one who is geiing tunneled it is frustrating as it is almost a guaranteed loss unless your team is good. But on the other hand 3 gens pop as you get your first hook, because you spent 30s looking for someone, 40s chasing, 10s hooking and then walking to a Gen. If you encounter this you want to tunnel to even have a chance at getting anything done. So most killers just default to tunneling.
Tbh I think you should take a break from the game if you are this frustrated. It will only get worse if you continue because you are focusing on your anger.
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Something you seem to either be forgetting or just ignoring is that a buff to say Pig isn't a buff to all killers. It's a buff to 1/67th of killers where a buff to survivors is a buff to 100% of survivors so of course killers are going to get more changes since they're not just skins of each other like survivors are.
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Well we had catered to them for looong time, and result was a disaster of non-horror game.
And on top of that it's not like escaping by itself is that fun, boring genfest is more of a chore/job than the game.
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This is incredibly false. Just a few years ago survivors had amazing things going for them and it was pure agony for the person playing killer.
Survivors are finally getting balanced out so of course people are going to complain.
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I think you got something twisted here, YOU have to get a killer to play this game as survivor. In my region killers have it feels like 70% uptime for the 100% bloodpoint-bonus means the ratio is off by quite a bit, so even with your "unbearable killerbuffs" (thats at least what it tells me) no one wants to play killer. So they are absolutely right with the 60% killrate.
And we are already talking about killerbuffs, most of it was just straight up fixing messed up perks and items/addons by survivors (at least are that the things I care mostly about): dead hard was a joke, ds was just used for a free-escape or as timewaste, coh was broken as hell because injures didn't mean anything anymore, same with medkits that added way too many selfheals, bnp's were broken if more than one had it, gen time was too low, mft was broken because it carried survivors at its own.
I don't know what you even want to change about vaultspeeds, they already were buffed accidently some time ago and it was broken af, you could stand in the survivor and swing and you'd miss.
Slugging is not an issue, if your entire team gets slugged it's an missplay on your side, slugging 1-2 survivors is even less of a problem. If were talking about bleeding out it's a big big subject that would take a while to fix.
No survivors don't need more basekit-perks (im okay with kindred and bond if you will, but windows should stay a perk), I really don't want to play against 4 "second chance"-perks every round.
In the end everything I have to read is the sentence "1000 hours and my win rate is still below 50%": exactly 1000 hours in dbd isn't much, you don't have a high escape-rate because you don't have enough experience and I think that's a wonderful aspect of this game. You have to play the game for ages to learn everything: I think in my first 300 hours as killer I got mostly bullied by survivors, that were sometime in 2021, i'm sure my killrate wasn't nearly 50% and that's how it should be.
Talking about survivor: I don't have your problems, I don't feel survivor is too weak. Most of the time when I loose a game I'm 100% sure that it was ether me failing to loop properly or my mates that just don't know what they are doing. Sometimes I loop the killer for minutes and every single one of my mates goes down in seconds. Other reasons could be 3 genning ourselfs (our own fault) or we just have a killer that's straight up better than we are (and it's deserved then).
Your entire post is the same post that you see now and then and it's everytime the same logic: you think survivors should win more often than loose because they are more, and I think killer should win more often than loose because you can't play without me lol. Get over it and take a break or something, they already commited and I don't think they will change their path so quickly.
Winning as killer btw:
0-1 = loss
2 = draw
3 and above = win
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... Did i really just read that killers should be happy with an 1k?
A draw isnt a win and who is the killer even suppposed to draw with? The two survivors who won or the two that lost? In reality 2k and below are a loss. It doesnt work in dbd as the survs arent judged as a team. Example Identity V: survs get 30% bonus score for 3+ escapes, killer for 3+kills. The end screen displaying the win/loss/draw for both sides.
Also as expected the people are confused about the dev stats. 40% escape rate is easily converted into a 40% winrate for survivors.
Now how many of those 60% kills are actually 3+kills wins?
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Every day more and more I find myself not wanting to play survivor. And I've only been playing since Christmas.
Yeah killers are supposed to be powerful, but of there's not really a chance for survivors guess what? It's gonna get to the point where it feels like there's no point in playing survivor.
Just like killers wouldn't want to keep playing if they kept losing, same goes for survivors.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe September 2022 we were on our way to experiencing the gen kick meta with Eruption/CoB/Overcharge when killer was the most autopilot it ever was and kicking gens and holding a 3 gen was often prioritized over chasing.
I actually think things are better now as killers are actually required to get hooks to get their gen regression and in a vacuum pain res, pop, grim, DMS these perks are fine on their own but I think what's just naturally happened over time is we've hit a critical mass in gen stall and regression and it's just too much to handle all at once but if BHVR somehow split the perks into pools and you could only take 2 at most from a particular pool I think that would feel much better to play. So IMO the problem is oversaturation rather than the actual balancing itself.
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You don't remember pre 6.10, I see. The only reason I picked up killer was because queue times were 10+ minutes after like 7pm est on surv. Playing killer like felt like a community service with how unfun it was.
It's wild to see the occasional mask off "survivors are more important and deserve preferential treatment" posts. How do you identify so so strongly with one half of the game? Play both sides.
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Not all sides agree that Unknown is broken. TBH, most of people say he is fine.
Sorry, but aside from SoloQ lack of info on other teammates and anti-tunneling, i think the survivor role is mostly fine. Also, the basekit BT is one of the STRONGEST Buffs survivors had in a long time (i remember being farmed in front of the killers, downed and put in the hook again before this happened). Really, survivor role is fine aside from the issues i listed above.
Like people said, if you are that mad about DBD, maybe you just should play another thing.
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I know this voice will not be heard by anyone in this forum. That's really unfortunate. People who say something reasonable are always viewed with suspicion and are not evaluated fairly.
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