I am so god damn sick of every game revolving around tunneling
Whether it's me or someone else on my team being tunneled, I'm so Fing sick of it. It is the most boring waste of time ever. Nothing makes me want to uninstall more, and I main killer. Any time I play survivor, it's for the latest Tome, and it is the most unbearable slog of tunneling matches ever.
Killer tunnels the first person he finds. If its you, you really have no chance of even getting your team out because they are casual. If its someone else, oh cool, I get to sit on a gen all match. Or more likely, the guy kills himself on hook, and really, can I blame them?
And don't give me this crap about "YOU NEED TO TUNNEL GEN RUSH TOO STRONG". In these matches, the killer is tunneling at 5 gens. They tunnel, tunnel, tunnel even if a single gen hasn't been done 5 minutes into a match. I'm so Fing bored of having to run a full anti-tunnel build just to be able to do something as easy as "finish 2 generators". And the anti-tunnel build doesn't even work very well.
Okay, maybe the literal 0.5% of killers need to tunnel. But the 99.5% others who are tunneling the first hook with no gens done? Holy crap it is so boring.
When is something actually going to be done about this obnoxious strategy?
Comments
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yeah the games beyond miserable survivor side, especially soloq. 11 games today and minus the three unknown games, 8 were all A/S tier killers slugging/tunnelling/proxy camping and trading at 5/4 gens. games boring, sticking to killer for now as its literally switch brain off mode atm
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It's only going to get worse.
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The most laughable series of changes I saw in recent months was the inevitable nerf to MFT as it punished the killer for doing his job. Okay, fair enough, the perk is now niche and balanced (as much as I hate it as a Legion player). Then, 2 chapters later we get Chucky, and a funny little perk called Batteries Included. This perk allows the killed to move 5% faster around a completed generator, thereby punishing the survivors for doing their jobs. But this is okay, as its on the baby hand-held killer role. The double standards in balancing and the sheer nonsensical killer buffs to killers that DO NOT need buffs (Blight, Huntress, Nurse's lunge addon) in the last 12 months have been comedy. They're sleepwalking into the game being in its worst state for survivors and they're absolutely okay with it. Every time a survivor perk becomes meta or on the strong side it appears on their "watch list". Self Care, CoH, MFT, DS, now Adrenaline is on the watch list. Windows is probably next. The games balancing is a complete joke and the sooner people start voting by not playing the better
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Show us how easy it is to win (or even 2K) consistently without tunneling. Looking forward to seeing your gameplay.
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"look what you made us do"
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You can scroll down for a vid of my gameplay 20/50 Myers. No slowdown, no tunneling, 2nd hook only all get their 1st hook, 3rd hook only all get their 2nd hook.
Let me guess your future comment "they made alot of mistakes"
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I literally agree with everything you said here. I tried to verbalize this in a super long post I made a few hours ago, but this nails it. Well said.
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So 3 survs didnt manage to do 1 gen in the time it takes to tunnel out a survivor? First searchtime + Chasetime + optional camping the first kill should be enough for atleast that much.
I dont get the "at 5 gens" complains either. Is the koller supposed to give you a headstart? If 3 gens are popping within 90s of a trial starting theyre also supposed to just deal with it cuz izs normal gameplay according to this very forum.
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Honestly I'm very fine if BHVR decide to literally just disable survivor hitbox once they are hooked, as more or less they must balance around that afterwards.
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That's the current meta you have to tunnel someone out at 5 gens otherwise 4 gens will pop its a race and that's the meta if survivors can do their objectives asap by bringing multiple bnps and gen perks killers should be able to too if the meta changes then good but you know what they say don't hate the player hate the game
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Batteries is a counter to the survivors basic method of taking killers to completed areas where all the pallets are available. To guarantee that a killer wastes their time.
Batteries will make it so those areas aren’t totally safe. So survivors actually have to use our brain by being attentive of that, and playing around that.
Batteries is nothing like old MFT. Which made us faster as long as you’re injured. For The People + Buckle Up + MFT.
I would run MFT + Dark Theory with map offerings like Midwich, and Meat Plant. The synergy MFT had was insane, man.
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^^THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I just played a match where there was a baby Leon, now as killer I personally would leave him as he is probably going to hide at the sound of my TR and not present me with issues later on. But of course the killer bravely targeted this poor noob with a heavy proxy and tunnel out of the game.
This is a very bad experience for newer players as they don't even get to feel like they played a match and I do think it is getting to the point where BHVR need to do something.
I had previously said I didn't see that much tunnelling but honestly now it feels that is actually gets worse by the day
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Nobody is asking for a headstart and people are aware that the GP will just do what the game gives them. Right now, DBD is most promsing for killers to tunnel and proxycamp. Isnt it understandable that survivors want to have that changed? Not changing the people, that is hardly possible, but rather the game itself?!
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If killers get an early hook, its a huge advantage to killers. That happen either by the first survivor's mistake, or the team's skill is lower than killer.
At that point, tunneling at 5 Gens is already no more necessary. With fair play against equal skill team, killers still have a high chance for at least 3K even if 5 Gens done. Or 4K / hatch escape if the team's skill is worse.
But here, defend tunneling at 5 Gens when killers already in the lead and have a high chance for winning again equal team or even worse team. That proves "balance around 12 hooks and killers will play fair" do not work. Thank you for the confirming.
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So u want that Survivors can sit for free on Gens when they got unhooked ? yep nice Balance but then plz dont wondering why no1 is playing Killer anymore except Nurse Mains 🤷🏻♀️
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so u are compairing a busted Perk that was active everywhere on the Map when u was injured whit a Perk that is only activate in the radius of a finished Gen ?
No Killer whit Braincells will chase a Survivor on a Finished Gen as a Killer u always need to chase Survivors in the near of unfinished Gens to have pressure
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Just play killer, q times will be horrid and bhvr will have to adjust. It's what I'm doing.
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I have played 3 nights straight of spreading hooks and making the experience enjoyable for both sides. The experience was quite enjoyable. I still gained decent bp. The downside is after the grade reset I will need to stomp some people until grade 1 iredescent again. If it was playtime alone to get maximum reward then some, not all, might just enjoy the game rather than grind for the bp gains.
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They can simple refute your emotions by saying "I'm a killer not a hooker" though. That's the hard counter argument to that. Rushing gens to do your objective is the same as killer kills to do their objective. You can't blame the player for playing that way, they're just doing their objective. The classic "you want me to stand still or something" (when someone says gen rush) can also be said the other way around. Objective is kills, the killer kills, kills kills kills.
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Start running antitunnel peks.
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Tunneling at 5 gens is perfectly acceptable.
Most survivors don’t care if the strategies they do are unfun for killers, so why should killer care if the strategies they do are unfun for survivors?
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Yes, some killers dont care about survivors' experiment, so do some survivors.
But for the most part:
- The survivors that get bad gameplay experiment are the one that casual and newbie. High skilled survivors dont complain on tunneling (those who you're complaining toward).
- The killers that get bad gameplay experiment are the one that sweaty to pull everything to 4K against casual and newbie at 5Gen remain (those who has mindset of tunneling at 5 Gens is perfectly acceptable for example) to gain unnecessary MMR to play against high skilled survivors - who are welcome killers to tunnel them.
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Nah sorry lemme rephrase a little. I wasn't saying MFT didn't deserve a nerf, it did, it was busted obviously. The logic of nerfing it on the premise of "it punishes the player for doing their job" was correct. You hit me in chase, you're punished cos now I move 3% faster, doesn't make sense. My point was they nerfef MFT on this principle, then add perks that contradict this balance philosophy on the killers side (I spend a couple minutes completing a generator, the KILLER is rewarded for me doing it)
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Tunneling at 5 gens isn’t sweaty, and wanting to 4K isn’t sweaty either. You’re just trying to shame people for trying to win. It also doesn’t matter if killers are doing things you think are “unnecessary”.
The reason why people don’t care, is because this is always just a one-sided expectation. Where is your list of “unnecessary” “sweaty” survivor strategies, that are unfun for killers, that survivors should avoid doing?
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And this mentality is why unless BHVR steps in, nothing will change, new killers will only get exp via tunneling, thereby not evolving AS a killer, and this is ruination imo. As a player base we SHOULD be better. We all want and love this game. But we're literally making it worse for ourselves. Man we're so awesome!
edit: Grammar
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Does this have any footage? I saw only a spreadsheet and will welcome any footage. For example I have gotten up to 35 wins as slinger (without slowdown btw), and my conclusion was that it took me 35 games to get people who knew how to play because god damn my survivors would struggle against a goldfish in a chess match. Like I got 4ks as slinger in garden of joy, if a team is decent at the very least, a slinger should NEVER get a 4k in GoJ, yet it happened like 3 times. Dont have any footage too but might start recording because I need to show people how bad someone can play, like even after like 5 consecutive wins I still get survivors who get sniped, how on earth do they achieve this? I have gotten to thr point I believe some of them are throwing on purpose.
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For years killers kept saying that they would stop tunneling if they got enough buffs and if they were the power role so they wouldn't have to resort to those strategies anymore.
Now most killers got buffed in some way and killrates are universally higher, escape rate has been lowered and survivors keep getting nerfs but somehow the killers keep tunneling even harder since "it's more necessary than ever" now.
So what we got is, killers getting stronger with each patch but turbo-tunneling even harder anyways since there isn't much you can do about it considering how laughable the "anti-tunneling" perks are.
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I have a recorded of 20# match, you can scroll down in the topic to see the vid.
I mostly meme around when playing killer (means I was probably in low MMR), only start playing serious with 50 matches challenge as Myers, early matches I totally dominate survivors, then the game starts to get harder.
There are alot of RNG in play that affect both sides, and we have to accept that.
Then the first chase cost 5 Gens and 4 escape isnt sweaty, so stop complaining.
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Where is your list of “unnecessary” “sweaty” survivor strategies, that are unfun for killers, that survivors should avoid doing?
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Im saying this again.
Its unnecessary to tunnel lower skill teams, or even equal skill teams. You will mostly get at least 3K in the end with hatch escape. Those are who complain about tunneling.
Those who you are complaining toward are high skill teams, they dont complain about tunneling, they ASK you to tunnel them then run you for 5 Gens and escape.
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No. I’m complaining to survivors of any skill level. I’m complaining about a double standard, where killers are expected to avoid certain strategies for the sake of survivor fun, but survivors aren’t expected to avoid certain strategies for the sake of killer fun.
People don’t care that you personally think tunneling at 5 generators is unnecessary. That’s just an arbitrary one-sided rule. And it doesn’t matter if something is necessary or unnecessary either, because it’s part of the game.
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Oh, don't start!
Tunnelling and camping have been argued against on the basis of them wrecking the gameplay for years.
The only strategy killers complain about is survivors getting to survive.
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Guess you refuse to understand my point, I leave this conversation.
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I understand your point. But I also think your point is wrong. Your fun isn’t my responsibility.
And let’s just get to the actual issue here. You’re upset that BHVR wants the kill rate to be around 60%, and many of your recent complaints revolve around this. You’re upset that the kill rate used to be lower than 60%, and BHVR raised the kill rate.
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GP? (sorry not familiar with that acronym) general populace?
It's understandable , but I think its unreasonable. "We hate it and if they dont stop it when we tell them to, they shouldnt be able to do it" isnt reasonable.
Oh right, I should mention that I belong to "those" people who believe tunneling to be normal gameplay, because it's the same as survivors "just doing" a single generator instead of swapping generators every 33% of progress. Note that the community hypocritically vilifies it if the killer does it. for survivors it's considered the "normal" gameplay.
"Would you kindly stop genrushing at 0 Hooks?" How do you think this forum would react if I opened a thread like that? I'm pretty sure I'd be ridiculed and told to git gud. "Stop doing your objective effectively just because I didnt progress mine yet" isn't reasonable.
People often tell killers to consider the survivors feeling. my answer is simply that survivors dont care either, so why should killers?
(Yeah i know, ancient history and bad taste example, anyways...)
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Don't bother. People on this forum confuse Killrate with Killer winrate all the time.
Unless the devs show us how often 3k and 4k happen, we won't know how big the difference between survivor wr and killer wr is.
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Easiest way is bhvr just nerfs the ######### out of tunneling which will happen eventually then killers can actualy learn to get good at the game.
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people complain all the gosh-darn time about survivor strategies they dislike on the forum. in fact, in my experience complaints about specific survivor play styles are more likely to garner positive attention than complaints about killer play styles. There is absolutely no double standard here
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It's understandable , but I think its unreasonable. "We hate it and if they dont stop it when we tell them to, they shouldnt be able to do it" isnt reasonable.
Why? Its a game, and it should be fun, right? Most survivors dont have fun when someone is getting tunneled, at least when we believe what they say on forum and social media. And from my perspective, i dont have fun tunneling as killer, because i personally feel like i make them a horrible experience and i make it to easy for myself. I always, since 2017 run this motto: If i have to camp and tunnel, i am not good enough.
You do what you do and thats fine. In fact, tunnel more, this will only speed up the process devs come up with a solution. Eventually, something will come that ruins tunneling and it does not botter me the slightest, since i never need those tactics to get my wins.
Oh right, I should mention that I belong to "those" people who believe tunneling to be normal gameplay, because it's the same as survivors "just doing" a single generator instead of swapping generators every 33% of progress. Note that the community hypocritically vilifies it if the killer does it. for survivors it's considered the "normal" game.
You dont like when survivors finish generators, and that is a topic we can discuss. But what has this to do with tunneling? There is no "tunnel gens". Tunneling is a tactic out of many, gen rush is the only tactic survivors have.
No second object, nothing else to do then running killer, hanging on hook, unhooking, healing and simply doing generators. And since healing speed is slow now, many dont even do that anymore.
"Would you kindly stop genrushing at 0 Hooks?" How do you think this forum would react if I opened a thread like that? I'm pretty sure I'd be ridiculed and told to git gud. "Stop doing your objective effectively just because I didnt progress mine yet" isn't reasonable.
You tell me in all seriousness you would look silly? Most topics back in the days beside Noed/DH op were exactly that. Thats why there are a trillion powerful regression perks and even genspeed and toolboxes got nerfed significantly. But if you still think genspeed is to fast, go for it and complain. I personally disagree but there is defenitly room to discuss.
People often tell killers to consider the survivors feeling. my answer is simply that survivors dont care either, so why should killers?
I actually said, this has nothing to do with the people, its the game itself. But to give you an answer why you should care about other peoples feeling: Because its the most normal thing to do? When someone gives you #########, you give it back? Is that a great philosphy?
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IMO: not really. Killer complaints aren't usually about strategies or tactics, but more about survivors running away or completing gens.
There's startlingly few complaints about bully squads, but that might be because it's a topic with no meaningful discourse because pretty much everyone agrees that it's garbage.
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I am confused as to how this became a thing that “needs a fix”. I play mostly survivor and have the games where there is the bloodthirsty killer and sometimes the friendly one. I do not get the reason for an outrage on not surviving as survivor. It is the point of the game to try and survive with a low chance of success scenario. The game length on average is meant to be less for a survivor than a killer. The issue, that most likely cannot be helped, is that the wait time to get into a survivor game is longer than a killers most of the time.
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Any survivors that whinge about tunneling, go and play killer yourself and try and get 10+ hooks 👍
As for being tunneled, preventing it and resisting it. What are you doing about it? Run anti tunneling perks such as OTR, ones that hide scartch marks, wear darker cosmetics to try and hide instead of bright neon clothing, break LOS, become a better looper or just plain and simply, stay away from the area the killer is playing in to avoid being caught again.
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I truly don't understand why people defend hard tunneling so much, I truly don't.
Why would you, as a player of this game, intentionally want the most viable and efficient gameplay to revolve around a strategy that is almost universally agreed upon to be extremely un-ejoyable, low skill expressing, and one of the easiest things you can do with counterplay that requires much more skill and teamwork (that the average game does not achieve) to counter?
It baffles me quite honestly. Why would we, as a community, not want to push the game into a healthier, more enjoyable state for everyone involved? The "Us vs. Them" stuff should have been left years and years ago. The games almost 8 years old. The vast majority of people play both sides. Why not push for an experience for both sides to be enjoyable?
I've now had two friends quit within their first two weeks of playing the game because they're simply not allowed to have fun in the average match. So many people forget that the new player experience is just as important as the veteran experience. How will the game grow if new players are getting hard tunneled out of their matches with almost zero clue how to effectively counter it?
Both sides of this game should be pushing for a more healthy state of the game where tunneling is disincentivized. Balance it however you want, but the average game should not turn into a 3v1 4-5 minutes into the match.
Making the game more enjoyable for everyone involved should not be a controversial take or one that is met with "just get better", "just run anti-tunnel perks", "it's the only way to win", or "it's your teammates fault". None of these are valid excuses for a strategy that requires very little skill for such massive rewards.
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Been getting 10+ hooks for six years now. This is the easiest it's been for me. Take that as you will.
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You know that most people play both sides right? I for one don't tunnel and camp and consistently get 2-4ks in the vast majority of my matches. I think quite a lot of people in this game and on this forum never actually question how they can get better, and instead just blame all their losses on the other side, forgetting that the vast majority of the time, there's always a semblance of control you have over your matches.
Why should a strategy that requires little to no thought, no perk requirements, no specific killer, and a noticeably less amount of skill to pull off compared to surviving it be healthy for the game?
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Wow this was a hell of a turn around for accusations. I'd leave the chat too, C3.
While its not your problem others aren't having fun, it is BHVR's. You ruining the game for others and knowing it just shows a bit of personality type and lack of empathy for your fellow gamer. Thats totally fine btw, we are who we are.
Tunneling will be dealt with because they are a company. YOUR responsibility doesn't really matter. Respect is cool, but not necessary. Playing a game is supposed to be fun, but its not necessary. And i don't even know why you threw out that last bit about the 60/40 kill rate. If you truly think thats what any of this is all about, then yeah, definitely nothing more to talk about here lolol.
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I'm sure there's plenty of examples even on this forum that make you totally incorrect. I main Trapper and get 3-4k's plenty. I enjoy SWFS because I know they'll be keeping me on my toes most likely. Come at me.
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My experience as a killer main who plays survivor only for the tome challenges is, the average killer does not play like I do. I run 2 slowdowns max and never tunnel. The vast majority of my games are 3ks where I let the last guy go. I played the new killer for around 4 hours yesterday and got two 1ks. Every other match was a 3k letting the last guy go. Meanwhile, when I switch to survivor, not only did I have to play 5 blights, 2 pigs, 2 billys, and they all tunneled, but the only 2 matches I played against the new killer, they both tunneled the first guy at 5 gens.
If you are hooking a survivor you tunneled for the 2nd time and a gen still isn't done, you have no excuse, you are not "being forced to tunnel because gens are too fast". You are doing it because it's way too strong of a strategy that can only be punished by good players, of which the average survivor is not. The effort it takes to tunnel is insignificant to the effort it takes to counter tunneling. If you have a guy who needs to cleanse 3 totems or find memory shards, guess what, he's not going to be slamming gens and trying to take hits/trade hooks just because a guy is tunneling.
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Tunneling is losing bhvr money I have cashapped 20 of my friends money to buy the game and only 2 have stayed the other 18 returned and refunded the game before the two hour mark because they got tunneled out of the game every time.
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