OhTofu says nothing but facts about SM for 40 seconds
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Unbalanced, yes. Worse design, no.
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I agree, but this is an issue with DBD, it doesn't mean that Skull Merchant is OP.
BHVR should make her counterplay clearer, like providing a better tutorial or making it easier to determine if you can be detected (for example, having your character glow if in a drone AoE and if you can be detected, so it's easier to know if you are or not), etc.
The problem is, BHVR can do all of this, even nerf SM to the ground, but people will keep saying things like "Yeah, she's the worst killer in the game, but she still feels awful to go against" simply because that's what's been repeated since she was released. There's no winning against people with the "SM is OP" mentality.
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Yes this, her counterplay should be clearer. If you're on a gen under a drone everyone think: Ok' it's save but the drone is activated. Maybe the gen is scanned green and while sitting on the gen you're glowing green, too.
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Whats so bad about her design that the massive hate is justified? And im talking about game mechanics.
Does she have AI that hunt you down like Knight? No.
Does she force you to mend over and over again while getting relatively easy injures? No.
Does she hit over loops that can leave little to no counterplay depending on map like Trickster? No.
Is she a walking accessibility issue like Spirit? No.
Does she deactivate most anti-tunnel perks and mechanics like Pyramid Head? No.
Does she overly punish you for minor mistakes? Yes and no, i think the deep wounds is overkill and the haste could be replaced with something more interesting and fun, but you need to trigger them 3 times, Wesker forces you to pick up and use limited items after each M2 or else having hindered and exposed and it happens passively with no real set up, if its THAT big of a problem then why should he get a pass?
There are problems in her kit, i pointed it out in this thread, but i don't see why she gets so much hate while others arguably deserve it more, like Pyramid Heads who tunnel knowing most perks are disabled and teammates can't save for example.Just tell me why you think she is actually so much worse than anyone else gameplay wise.
Post edited by GroßusSchmiedus on6 -
I respect their opinion but a popular streamer's opinion doesn't overwrite the majority of community's opinion. So presenting this as the one and only fact is funny. There were people even defending 3-Gen Merchant with their lives too. Some people loved shaming survivors for wanting to go next instead of staying stuck in a 50 minute match but somehow never judged the "strategy" of a killer keeping survivors hostage. Survivors get blamed for everything.
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Since her changes, she's been fine to face. There's nothing too tasking about her drone and they have been significantly weakened. The Skull Merchant was horrifically and poorly designed at her conception and reveal, but now she's much fairer to deal with.
It still surprises me people still have an issue with her. Before, she was the absolute rare exception to the "disconnecting is for spoilt, little brats", especially when she went for the 3-gen showdown. Now, there's no reason I can think of.
I still don't like her because as a character she's embarrassing. I'd never disconnect nor complain about facing her, though nor be a dick to anyone who plays her.
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For people saying that SM counterplay needs to be clearer: the scan lines become white while standing still or crouching. There's already feedback to tell you whether or not the drones will scan you.
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Most people giving up probably don't even know she was reworked. People play they game not reading patch notes or visit forums like we do.
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- You completely ignore how much of the communities opinion is based around content creators, even those who aren't watching them will likely hear them sooner or later by someone blindly parroting them, i don't really watch any content creators except for a very few and i still hear a lot of others who i seriously can't be bothered to watch their videos/streams like Scott Jund for example.
- The ones defending Skull Merchant were in the extreme minority, and the claim that 3 Genning was never condemned or shamed is COMPLETELY made up by you, just see the community reception on this. Hell its mostly fixed and STILL people associate her with this to this day, proven by your post. The complaints about her 3 genning are some of the most frequent things you can find, still some of the videos with the highest view count on youtube regarding SM, BHVR gave her one of the fastest reworks ever and nerfed 3 gens after. And if your point is that a few ones who defended it were a problem then you're a hypocrit based on the first sentence of your post.
- An opinion isn't more right because its held by a group rather than an individual, thats not how anything works, its the experience and arguments that matter. If only 2-3% play against or as her enough to comfortably say they understand her mechanics than the 97% doesn't matter in any way since they are unable to give any meaningful input, its like saying someones input about treatment of diseases is just as valid as the one of a specialized doctor because he also got a human body even if he doesn't even know what what a skeleton looks like.
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I’ve backed off on some of my SM dislike lately. Been playing as and against her a lot more. Honestly the only time she could have “bad design” is when people ignore her mechanics. However that’s just being bad, that should be expected. When you actually know how to play around her drones she’s quite weak.
I also don’t see the issue with her “3 genning”. 3 genning was killed, it doesn’t exist to any meaningful extent that is an issue anymore. Yeah she can throw drones on gens, who cares, it doesn’t matter. If 3 genning is losing games for people still it’s because they’re playing bad.
She doesn’t require coordinated swf play, she just requires the individual survivors to not be bad, but that’s every killer.
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Ok booping my snoot doesn't deactivate me, but it certainly will buy you some time! 🐷🐽
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Place power at loop, Survivor must leave and take a hit or die.
Punishes you for teammates errors.
Forces you into lose-lose scenarios.
Removes almost all skill expression as Survivor.
Still holds down 3-gens extremely well.
Has the most slapped together power of all time. 80% of people have no clue what it does and I can't blame them.
Exemplifies holding W and pre-running playstyle, resulting in drawn out matches.
Completely anecdotal, but every SM I've played against since her rework has been an absolutely toxic human being. I 100% believe she attracts the worst people in the community
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Almost all of your points apply to Dredge as well, he forces survivors to leave loops in a way that mostly removes skill expression, promotes holding W, punishes the entire team with Nightfall (which, unlike SM is also an accessibility issue) and holds 3 gens based on locker positions, his 3 gens don't even need to be close together, just 3 gens close to lockers. And his power also has a lot of moving parts.
Are you gonna be consistant enough to complain about Dredge just as much now? You also DC against most Skull Merchants so how can you tell that most of them are toxic when you aren't even around to see it, it makes no sense.
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what do you mean? the traps are their power, so yes resetting a trap is getting your power back. every single trap-type killer is like this. demo, singlurarity, every single one. to @Seraphor post, I don't think it is the killer. it is the play-style.
I don't really get it. when I play hag, I 3 gen every single game with hag, almost from the beginning. no one cares. only when your skull merchant, you get special treatment. anyhow, my advice is to take Ohtofu advice and play the game out and accept L when the opponent plays better than you.
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Thank you for making this post, finaly someone that doesn't blindly sit on SM hate train. Based clip btw.
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disabling is irrelevant when she puts all her drones in any and every area survivors can run when she arrives at her 3 gen. you can't run around disable drones every 45 seconds.
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Ohtufu is only one person. He said an opinion that aligns with killers where the game is only fun for one person. He said no facts.
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I don't know how, but how 90% of your comments completely repeat my thoughts? I don't really bother to answer to everyone, but i don't really need it, since I would just write almost same things as you. Love you, Birdmate, you are a bright mind, fighting for truth and not for convictions.
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And that's why he saying it after match AGAINST her? Opinion based on many matches AGAINST her? At least biased comments like this make me laugh, even if there is 0 sense in them.
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I do not DC against them, actually. I said I'd RATHER go next and that I don't blame people for doing so.
And yes, I have complained about Dredge, especially as an accessibility monster, since he came out. He really hurts my eyes when I play against him. His power is rather boring and promotes poor gameplay.
The difference is the degrees of magnitude.
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That take was wayyyy before tofu started to meddle in comp.
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But it's not facts. Most people find her oppressive and very unfun. She should be changed.
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Nah, and im not even talking about old slinger, mf thought post-nerf slinger was almost deserving of S tier, literally put him below artist, we are talking post nerf slinger, any person with eyes and ears and more than 100 hours should not get sniped by that killer ever and he is incredibly easy to beat in a swf. yes he will be a nightmare to soloq but with the quality of teamates in soloq even trapper is incredibly effective.
you can find the video on yt were he discusses why slinger may deserve S tier, he unironically almost placed him on S tier. However I want to clarify this is just something I use to poke fun at him (because its an awfull take) but I have not watched tofu recently, and seeing as he has dabbled into comp dbd probably he has more insight than he did before, so maybe eve he can see how funny that take was.
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She's both "oppressive" in chase and in macro.
She's a Killer that you pretty much need to SWF against in order to have the coordination to beat.
Her power forces people to play extremely good macro, which is very difficult, and also has no counterplay during the chase. If she puts up a drone at a loop, you HAVE to leave. You also have to prevent her from holding a 3-gen and also from holding dead parts of the map. You need to be aware of resources and plan accordingly.
She's designed to go against 5K hour comp players and lose, but autowin against anyone who dared to play outside of a competitively minded SWF
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She is fine and even week whe you don't ignore her counterplay - fact.
People exaggerate about her more than she deserve it, because of biases from past they don't want to refuse - fact.
She is not that hard in the chase, there are at least 10 killers, who is more annoying and leave way less counterplay - fact.
Be honest with yourself and accept that exactly this killer will be "fine and fun" only when you can completely ignore her counterplay and won't be punished for it, and in chase she will be Trapper level.
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That’s not the case there are many other killers that are way too oppressive in chase yet many people find them fun
pyramid head being one of them
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Thats how I feel The amount of skill required to play her is miniscule compared to what the survivors have to pull off.
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That... seems a bit extreme, my friend. It is not THAT difficult to escape from Skull Merchant in Solo Queue.
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Who decides if you have a dumb reason for hating a killer or not?
In the end it still all comes down to opinions, even if a majority of people agree that something is badly designed. I also have my doubts that everyone besides the avid SM fan club hates Skull Merchant to be honest. That just seems like a desperate attempt to disregard different opinions.
If you give up against Skull Merchant right from the get go, it really doesn't make you any better than someone who immediately gives up against Trapper, frankly.
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See how you stack up!
Edit: Why on earth is this here? I think I posted this to the wrong thread....
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
im not a fan of how much it requires to understand and counter from the survivor side, her kit is super overloaded imo.
if they took her old kit, and got rid of the obnoxious addons that made 3 genning super strong, and keep the change where her drones dont work if you dont move, she would be fine
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Why are you so defensive? Gosh, what's up with people on this forum? Did everyone here forget how to socialize? Do you realize some of us don't care that much? I just left a short random comment and you gave me a page-long analysis telling me I'm making stuff up, implying I'm lying, also calling me a hypocrite over one comment I made and a weird disease analogy. Some of you really need to take a break either from this forum or game. Sorry, I don't care that much I just wanted to leave a comment. Fine, I'll be forced to like Skull Merchant if that makes you happy and not call me names I guess. This community is doomed.
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"Completely anecdotal, but every SM I've played against since her rework has been an absolutely toxic human being. I 100% believe she attracts the worst people in the community"
As you said this is anecdotal so why even bring it up? Doesn't prove anything. I can say the same thing about Billy Mains. Every Billy I have ever gone up against has been some of the most toxic players I have come across yet Billy mains are some of the most loved kill mains by this community. This is one of many reasons why Billy has been my most hated killer in the game ever since I started back in 2021. At the end of the day, I don't see the point of bring up an anecdotal statement esp when you even said it yourself that it's anecdotal.
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How others feel about SM, i feel about Hag.
And I don't DC or throw tantrums.if I can play against a Hag, nobody has any excuse.
And nobody hates Hag more than I do.
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I would say she's A. Drone has no penalty spamming for it and is nothing but benefits even having Survivor constantly waste time interacting with it is a time waster throughout. It also makes survivor movements much predictable if say you lock the middle part of the map so they have no choice but to hug a part of the map you want them to.
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It is an exaggeration to prove my point, I'll admit.
It's possible to beat anyone in Solo Q. SM is one of the least likely due to the coordination required to effectively counter her.
It does seem more and more that Killers are designed around SWF and Survivors communicating.
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Because I wanted to bring it up.
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I hate Trapper because my feet and his traps have an intimate relationship. They always seem to find each other and they never want to separate.
That's a dumb reason.
A good reason would be hating Dredge because of Nightfall.
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Why do I get so many comments just saying that I don't understand tactics? There is already a counter to SM, and it seems that there are many people who run away with nonsense, pretending that it is completely impossible and not being able to put it into practice is just a skill issue. In my eyes, they are only trying to defend themselves because they want to escape but don't want to be seen as weak.
And this is what I say over and over again on the forums: There are so many people who always feel like they can't get out of the gate because they can't escape the killer, but that's just a fantasy that's far removed from reality. If you truly believe that you are a decent survivor, no matter what kind of killer you are facing, if you can escape for at most 40 to 50 seconds, you should be able to survive more than half of the time. If not, one of the survivors is either slacking off on completing the gen or is just crouching in the grass in fear of being spotted by the killer.
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In what world do you call a 70% killrate a "worse than some other killers"? She is the first placed by Killrate, the second one is Onryo with 67% and the third place is Cenobyte/Freddy with 63% based on January 2024 stats. Even top tier killers aren't even top 5-10 by killrate.
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Honestly considering every time I attempt to play a full match against skull merchant they usually use super unfun tactics so there’s always a sour taste in my mouth it’s like people play her because she is the most hated killer
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Same here
had a skull merchant use knockout + third seal and bled me and all the survivors out
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Wait until you play against me, my friend.
I'm a nice Skull Merchant, I promise!
I think she is far easier to beat than killers like Cenobite or Xenomorph, to be honest.
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I think she relies less on teammates than they do, but more on every Survivor having good macro sense.
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Stepping in here for a moment; please remember to keep the discussion civil & respectful: towards others, other players, and their thoughts and opinions.
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Honestly they need to completely rework her just take away the drones and give her a new power, change her aesthetics while they're at it. It's a lot of work but they're only cleaning up the mess they created.
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Pretty much, I agree with this dude's sentiment. If everyone involved is just going for a normal game and isn't giving up or griefing in some way, Skull Merchant matches are perfectly fine. The few I've gotten to play on the survivor side were even pretty fun, dodging her drones can be pretty engaging.
I do feel for BHVR, because they kind of have to do something in response to all this, but 90% of the feedback they get is completely unusable. How the heck do you balance your way out of a community perception issue? I don't envy them the task, that's for sure.
Hopefully whenever SM inevitably does get changes, they're sensible ones that alleviate the few actual problems she has.
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Glad to hear my friend. I will definitely try it when I meet you 👉️🐽
BTT:
I'm glad to hear that there are still some people who don't share the hatred of SM, regardless of whether they like the killer or not. Unfortunately, some of the arguments here in the forums are very unobjective and emotional. It feels like it's always the same people who express their dissatisfaction with SM. Saying SM is the worst designed killer in the game because you don't like them is just childish and doesn't bring about a serious discussion.
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The thing is she's had such a bad reputation for so long I don't see anyone's opinion changing.
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A lot of the angst against SM is leftover from previous versions of her. I'm not saying it's fun to verse her now, it's not really, especially when your solo teammates don't/won't do what's needed against her. But it is ever so slightly better now, a lil. Maybe. 🤪
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