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How do people feel about Flashbangs working when facing a wall?

TheArbiter
TheArbiter Member Posts: 2,626

I see that a popular discussion at the moment is blinding the killer and the perks and items that are associated with it. That being said as background player is becoming more and more popular are people okay with this being a thing, or is this the next buckle up and for the people. Curious what the community currently thinks

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Comments

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,129

    It is carried by BGP. The sound bug doesn't help too but sound is always broken in some way in this game.

    I've also had a few occasions where I was looking up when flashbang was dropped and still got blinded, not sure what the counter is if looking up doesn't help too.

  • SolidRazo
    SolidRazo Member Posts: 123

    it’s perfectly fine and works as intended, Flashbang is able to blind while a killer is against a wall because Flashbang gets thrown slightly in front of the survivor because of this when next to a wall it can snug just right in position to blind the killer

    That is perfectly normal and obviously intended mechanic.

    Counters to Flashbang users:

    Flashbang users have to get really close to get a Flashbang save since their window is approximately 1 second into the pick up anything later the killer is able to dodge by LOOKING UP or to the side

    Because of this fact Flashbang users can be easily caught out if you just look around a corner or fake you’re pick ups by just standing there and then quickly walk around you’re surroundings anything to mess with the timing of you’re pick up can make the Flashbang user hesitate and mess up the save.

    This should go without saying that Flashbang saves are not guaranteed and in fact are harder to pull off imo compared to flashlight saves since flashlight saves have a more generous window and such have more wiggle room to get saves consistently but flashlights can’t blind when there’s a wall so Flashbang has its niche when it comes to blind saves and it’s a very easy niche to counter even with background player.

    This should also go without saying but getting caught lacking and getting blinded while picking up is normal, can be annoying but it’s part of the game and the survivors who pulled it off deserve it so suck it up and just try again and be smart if you know there’s survivors lurking around to blind you.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,259
    edited April 15

    It's because the devs designed flashbang to be radius based not visual remember it's an explosion not a light beam shining into your eyes it's always been this way background player has just got more people realizing this , firecrackers do the same

  • AmpersandUnderscore
    AmpersandUnderscore Member Posts: 1,896

    BGP+FB has the same counter as BU+FtP: situational awareness.

    If you can go an entire half chase, at minimum, and not notice that there's a second survivor following you, that's a huge issue with paying attention to your surroundings that the devs can't fix.

    Tunnel vision is literally the problem here, and it's a giant gap in game sense. Especially if you're getting hit with this repeatedly. Turn around once in a while, look around.

  • solarjin1
    solarjin1 Member Posts: 2,232
    edited April 15

    u can be aware of your surroundings but it really in the survivors favor just like ftp combo. Am I surprised? no! the games have plenty of uncountable scenarios on both side.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763

    I'm typically on the same page as a lot of you. But if I may!

    I've been told many times during my complaining about tunneling that 'There are perks to counter your issue. Use them."

    I know Lightborn has been mentioned, but Im gonna mention it again. There is a perk that solves the issue this thread is bringing up.

    No, I dont think this solves 'the issue', but I know how BHVR does things and I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Besides, as a killer, do you really want EVERYTHING to just be safe? Wouldn't that make gameplay repetitive?

    I mean I'm sure someone isn't going to say this is more common than not. Especially when it can be countered with… a perk!

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,888

    Do you think perks are a good counter to tunnelling though? If you don't then this is very hypocritical.

    You shouldn't have to rely on a perk to counter something that is otherwise near impossible to counter. This applies to both sides not just one.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    Don't throw around logical fallacy buzzwords in an attempt to shutdown a discussion without knowing what they actually mean.

    They're simply pointing out a double standard which still to this day happens. Prove thyself was thrown around very frequently for gen regression perks, distortion is thrown around for aura perks, and (don't get me started on this absurd one) calm spirit was thrown around for ultimate weapon. Just because you can't remember them doesn't mean they don't exist.

    It is a skill issue if a killer can't pick up a survivor when background player and flashbang are in play.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    You hit the nail on the head.

    Also killers fearing Background Player and flashbang 60 seconds in the trial when it's extremely improbable to be in play that early without items (surv needs to be on a gen since the second the trial started and has 15 seconds to collect the flashbang and run to the killer). They aren't just making a mountain out of a molehill, they're turning it into mount everest.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,112

    Not throwing around anything, I point out issues on both sides so it was indeed an attempt to strawman me. No double standards were coming from me.

    Oh and no, it isn't a killer skill issue regarding flashbang pickups, the timing is ENTIRELY on the survivor not the killer. Killer is locked in animation and has no control once that animation starts.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763

    When 'the other side' decides this is the case, I will bend. Until then, fair is fair, and BHVR clearly thinks this is fair.

    I use to dislike the 'us vs them', but when you dive in, things become a lot more fun lol

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,640

    It has nothing to do with background player or flashbangs, it is a bug that has been around since unknown released that allows survivors to walk through killers when they pick up a survivor. It creates a ton of other problems, for example if someone was at a pallet, you could pick them up on one side of the pallet to body block a potential save, forcing someone who is saving to go around the other side. But now they can just walk through you and drop the pallet anyway.

    I reported it here:

    I'd suggest upvoting/posting in the thread to get more traction on it.

  • Azulra
    Azulra Member Posts: 504

    I've always felt that Flashbangs should've had a minimum range restriction added onto them that required the Flashbang to be dropped at least one meter in front of the killer to blind them so it couldn't bypass the only counter to blinding saves of facing a wall.

    Currently the only reason killers are still running Lightborn when they don't see any flashlights in the lobby is because of how unfair Background Player + Flashbang is and how common it tends to be. Plus, unlike with a flashlight, the killer can't see if a survivor is running Flashbang until it's most likely too late.

    Flashbangs in their current state with Background Player on top of them, in my personal opinion, are just as "balanced" as the original version of No One Escapes Death.

  • o7o
    o7o Member Posts: 335
    edited April 15

    I mean, that’s intended? Flashbang isn’t a flashlight, don’t know how flashbang is becoming a problem all of a sudden when there are ways to counter them and that’s how they work.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    I again will urge you to actually look up the definition of a strawman, because based on that response, you still don't know what it means. Also the person who responded to you was pointing out a double standard in the community based on the situation you described, it doesn't mean you necessarily hold to it.

    If the Killer is picking up in a lose-lose situation, that is a skill issue. Flashbang plays have to be done within 12 meters of a pickup, flashlights require you to be even closer in most cases. A killer can see scratch marks or hear running from that distance very easily. It is a skill issue if the Killer suspects the other side to make a play, and not adjust their strategy accordingly.

  • Pit_Bull_Love
    Pit_Bull_Love Member Posts: 59

    Stop acting like killers haven't received anything basekit over the years. Killers get bloodlust, 2 tiers of speed boost. It was given to help killer until map reworks (infinites).....yet here we still are, with primarily killer sided maps. What about mini pop? When kicking gens was introduced, it just began gen regression. Then it gave a 2.5% regression (percentage may be slightly off), and now it removes 5% every time a killer kicks a gen, basekit.

    These are both quality of life changes, although one could argue that killers got the better end of this deal.

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,475

    It obviously shouldn't work while a killer is facing a wall. Anyone arguing it should is obviously trolling.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    If you are not slugging in situations that would benefit you, i.e. free health state, game ending play, survivor rescue imminent, that is a skill issue.

    As sad as it is to admit, knowing when to slug is a skill. Saying lightborn is a "must have" could not be further from the truth. There's a reason lightborn is never seen in high rank gameplay, and it's not always because the killer wants to run 4 slowdown perks. It's because the killer has the skill and knowledge to render lightborn useless in 99% of cases.

    The "solution for this mess" already exists: increase your game sense and be mentally present in all the trials you play in.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763

    lol here's a hot take: Killers staring at walls has no counterplay. Now there is one.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    You can only get a flashbang save from 12 meters away with background player. I have said this in both threads recently that this discussion has occurred in the past week. Slugging in the way you are hyperbolically suggesting is not how a good player would play.

    If you are making an entire build centered around denying a flashbang + background player play when all you have to do is be aware of your close surroundings and go after a survivor if they are close by, that is 100% a skill issue.

    Here is your step by step guide:
    1) Hop into a game vs bots as your favorite killer
    2) Press W and hold for roughly 2.6 seconds (115% killers only)
    3) Draw a mental circle around where you are, where the radius is where you started the 2.6 seconds prior
    4) Realize that's how small of an area you have to quickly check by panning your camera or walking around any line of sight blockers in order to successfully counter a flashbang + background player play
    5) If you see another survivor in that area, chase them and hopefully get a hit. If they are ever farther than the radius you memorized earlier, it is safe to pick up as that specific survivor won't be able to get the save. If there are multiple people going for the save and there are still a good amount of gens remaining, realize you've won the game because most of the survivors are not doing gens and you have effectively stalled the game.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    A counter that requires:
    1) 45 seconds minimum on a generator for each use
    2) No exhaustion status applied despite the plethora of perks and addons that apply it
    3) 2 perk slots that don't guarantee success

    All that to counter looking at a wall. Let that sink in, it's getting cold outside.

  • goodfriday
    goodfriday Member Posts: 209

    Lightborn😆

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763
    edited April 15

    There ya go.

    Lightborn exists. It squashes this threads 'problem.' Not going to use it? Then enjoy the wall light show.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    You can only get the flashbang save between 1 and 1.5 seconds of the pickup animation. 1.5 seconds being the longer time means 1.5 seconds * 8 m/s = 12 meters. If you took off lightborn and played the game without it, you would know that flashlights and flashbangs do not immediately get the save the second you click them into action.

    You're well within your right to question my math, but before you go disproving it, I suggest you actually know what figures you're talking about because you would arrive at the same conclusion I did. I don't know what version of dbd you're playing where flashlights are instant, because that has been patched out of the game for the past 4 years now.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763

    I would like the resolution of this cosmic mathematical debate. What is the right time? I NEED THISSSssss…..!

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    I've mostly heard between 1 and 1.5 seconds depending on ping and the flashlight grace period, which I will apply to flashbang for the worst case scenario. Realistically, it is closer to 1 second, which would mean between 8 and 12 meters and not 12 meters radius. In practice, 10 meters is more likely the correct radius in which a survivor can make the play.

    However, the right time is… insert famous doctor who quote here.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,887

    The flashbang takes about a second to explode. If you factor in that the killer actually has to look away from the flashbang too, 2.5 seconds is pretty reasonable. Let's say you play on a high DPI though, so you can move your camera even quicker and make it 0.3 seconds. Just to give you a bit of ground here. Then you have 3.3 seconds - 1 second = 2.3 seconds. This is faster than a console player will be able to move their camera but for the sake of this argument we consider a pc player.

    That's still 18.4 metres of distance you cover during that time. So my previous calulation would still be very accurate. See how that goes? I chose numbers that favor you and it's still not working, while you chose numbers that heavily favored your own point even though you admitted, that you don't know the exact time. This only shows me that you are willing to hold onto your opinion no matter the facts. Even if I were to magically summon a spreadsheet with proof, you would still not be willing to admit you're wrong.

    On that basis, I am no longer willing to discuss this with you because it leads nowhere. I am willing to admit when I have been proven wrong (like about Skull Merchant) but it seems the same cannot be said for you, so I honestly don't think this exchange is of any value.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    No, you are wrong on all accounts.

    If you use flashbang too early, the killer is still within the pickup animation and will not be affected. It MUST be thrown between 1 and 1.5 seconds of the killer's pickup animation depending on ping. Also, unless you're playing on 5 dpi, a simple mouse flick is more than enough (less than .1 seconds), so there is essentially no camera move time.

    This is the second time you are "no longer willing to discuss" the topic of flashbang + background player because the facts simply aren't on your side. There are youtube videos, steam guides, and more showing how to correctly time a flashbang save, and they are all between 1 and 1.5 seconds of the killer's animation starting. I am more than willing to admit when I am wrong when there is proof that disproves the facts that I am presenting. You are simply ignoring what the proven facts are because you don't like them, which isn't helping this discussion at all.

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,888

    But by this logic, the same applies to the other side, and they won’t bend for the same reasons. And now it’s just a cycle.

    You’re using the same logic and justifying it very hard, yet don’t agree with it when it affects you. If you think it’s not fair to run a perk just to counter tunnelling but then provide the exact same logic and justify it hard, then sorry that’s just hypocritical and petty for the sake of being petty.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763

    The issue is they both claim they are using 'facts'. One has to be false, so…

    How to fix this?

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,888

    Often times both have some merit but each side refuses to admit it, or they are both completely wrong and twist everything to suit their narrative.

    In this case though, no matter which side it is if you shouldn’t have to run a perk just to counter something that is otherwise near impossible to counter. This isn’t just BGP flash bangs I’m talking, this applies to everything from tunnelling to Ultimate Weapon.

    How do you fix it? You can’t really. There will always be some form of Us vs Them in an asymmetrical type game. Only thing you can do is try not to resort to Us vs Them to not make the issue larger. If you know something is an issue, then you should agree to solve it rather than use the unrelated opinion of someone (who probably isn’t worth listening to in the first place) to justify it being unfair.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,763
    edited April 16

    Im all for solving things, but this is the internet. There is no way the ego's who lie within will ever work towards this lol.

    However, the 'us vs them' can be a fun and immersive experience. Its not exclusively toxic like a few here would have you believe. Like everything, it's how we use it.

    That said, Im gonna hop on and start flash/banging only the walled killers. I'm not naive enough to think this won't eventually get patched. But its here now, and I just watched a few randoms get tunneled two outta my last three games. It really does make it more pallet'able lol.

    edit: a lil inebriated, all over the place.

  • burt0r
    burt0r Member Posts: 4,163

    PEOPLE stop your bickering, the time has come to fully embrace the glory of our Lord and to be protected by their shades.

    Bask in the love and protection of our Lord and savior..…LIGHTBORN 😎

    May we be born in the light so it may never blind us again. Amen.

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 2,112

    They were attempting to make an argument based on arguments I had not made, in other words a strawman.

    I don't hold a double standard here as I see faults on both sides, I am not making a one sided argument.

    You clearly don't play killer if you think this is a killer skill issue, BGP can put you in situations where you literally cannot pick up and the only out is the survivors screwing up the timing, which they admittedly do.

  • Valuetown
    Valuetown Member Posts: 488

    That is not what they were doing. They made a tongue-in-cheek comment about how killers would react to survivors complaining about an issue similar regarding running a perk to counter it. That's pointing out a double standard. If they would have said "you (specifically) don't care about the survivor experience at all" that would have been a strawman. It is simplifying your argument, and by doing so, can be extended to looping, tunneling, camping, etc. Do you see how that is different than "Funny now it's unfair. Back then killers were fine telling a survivor to run x perk?" They never said anything about what you thought or changed any argument. They are introducing the nuance to the discussion about if the shoe was on the other foot.

  • NekoGamerX
    NekoGamerX Member Posts: 5,298

    no matter if you play killer or survivor when one side has a broken combo of some kind they want to keep it like flashbang+BGP and FTP+buckle up and yes there broken.the different is killer don't keep broken thing for long like gen regression perks combos and starstruck nurse but I know they needed to go so does Flashbang+BGP and FTP+Buckle up.

    anyone who say tho combo are fine either don't play killer or care about the killer have a good time.

  • WolfyWood
    WolfyWood Member Posts: 488

    I think its funny that people are so against using Lightborn but then will run the same four boring slowdowns every game???