Nerfing all Gen slowdown won't shake up meta for Killers
"Pain Ress is in 40% of loadouts…" (from dev update)
Yes, I wonder why? Maybe it is because gens are too fast without gen slowdown on any killer who isn't in the top 3.
Nerfing all gen slowdowns won't change the meta. People will still use Pop and Pain, Grim sometimes, Deadlock sometimes, etc. Because there is simply no other option if you want to win the game.
M2 Killers (Killers who use mainly their power to down Survivors) have it even worse because their build diversity is limited by many "with basic attack" perks making them only run slowdown or aura reading (usualy both).
What's worst is that killers who are allready strong won't be as much nerfed as the bottom line/mid line of killers.
Nerfing Deadlock on Nurse is no big deal but for someone like Trapper who needs every second it is.
Comments
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at this point, just remove all gen slowdown and make 200% ruin basekit and not a hex or something. Better than having the meta cycle itself out every few months.
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Come PTB, we'll see how they interpret the data and go from there. (Unless they have pre-planned changes…)
Still hoping they're going to address gen progression somehow, I will forever cope.
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I would imagine most people are going to slap on Grim or DMS in place of Pop and call it a day tbh. Pain is still efficient enough to be run. Ruin might creep back into the meta but probably not.
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Does bhvr really expect there not to be more used perks then others when most are trash and need synergy from others to be effective. How about adressing the massive problem of survivors killing themselves on hook
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Truth right here. I’m tired of perks being basic attack only. Can someone explain why Surge is basic attacks only? Gens are limited to 8 regression events anyways.
It’s rough being a Huntress main, can’t use exposure perks, can’t use stealth perks, can’t use basic attack perks, and haste perks aren’t as good compared to a 115 killer using them.
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Unfortunately this doesn't change the meta at all. The rest the perks are still terrible. All this is gonna do is make people tunnel and camp more. Wrong direction for changes to go.
The game needs more built in slow down and then we can gut all the gen regression perks. Make base kicks 10% and base regression 200% and then nerf everything heavily.
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They didn't need four gen regression perks, most people just want the easiest possible match.
Nothing will change except more bad Killers will complain after having crutched on gen regression perks.
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"Because there is simply no other option if you want to win the game." … Here we go again making false claims.
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same
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G'day Mr Singularity! How's your evening?
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Some games are literally unplayable without some form of gen defense. Can we stop blanket calling killers "bad" who use it. That's a load of nonsense. Streamers with thousands of hours have killer games that last 4-5 minutes when they don't use slowdown, it's not because they are bad. Stop that. Its called wanting to actually play the game and have more then 2-3 chases before the game is over. You play against a 3-4 man who is efficient on gens it doesn't even matter how quick your chases are without slowdown.
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The funniest thing the DBD community has decided is that by choosing to use the best perks, you are actually bad. Even though intentionally handicapping yourself for no reason is not something people do in any pvp game.
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You still dont need 4 Slowdown-Perks.
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Gen slowdown is a crutch that gets you undeserved wins, which then catapults you to high MMR where you can't cope without gen slowdown because you haven't developed the skills to play without slowdown. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I've never needed significant gen slowdown. At most, Thrilling Tremors or Call of Brine, which come with info attached so I can pressure gens myself, which is how you're supposed to play.
Meanwhile every game I play against a killer with significant slowdown (usually Pop Pain Res, like 90% of the time) is an absolute massacre of a game that they probably would have done well in without the slowdown.
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Pain res & pop are still the top gen regression perks even after these nerfs everything else was heavily nerfed because of gen kick meta on top of the 8 regression events. Ruin is still an option I guess, but I don't think it's worth running on a majority of the killer roster.
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Tho I agree with you, you don't need four slowdown perks but one or two still feel require if you want a chance to win consistently on low tier killers esp if you just a average or casual player. The reason I say average or casual is I sure your come back will be "well I don't need slowdown to win my matches." I wouldnt consider you a avg player either base on how much I seen you on here and how you reply to threads. I believe you probably a really skilled killer but not everyone is as skilled as you or others and how MMR system is in this game we rarely ever go against ppl similar in skill level. DBD isn't like games like ow2 or other multiplayer games where MMR systems are finely tuned to try to pair others of similar skill sets. I have mentioned in my past posts that matchmaking has been miserable for me and is the main reason Im not playing right now since my matches have been completely one-sided(I either win at 4 gens or lose miserably with just few hooks) and not fun. Personally I have to run at least two slowdown myself, if I don't my games always go way to fast and I usually I'm lucky I get one or two hooks
Anyway I got little off topic. Imo the real issue is the fact that gap in killer strengths is to wide where multiple slowdown perks on a Freddy or Trapper doesn't feel all that bad but multiple slowdown perks on a nurse or blight is way too oppressive. That why balancing regression perks will always be the hardest thing to do in DBD and like it or not the game is balance with the idea a killer is running at least one or two of them.
I'll end this with one last thing, personally I'm fine with these nerfs since most of them are really minor. I do think pop is getting over nerf but it most likely going to be fine. My biggest complaint this update is fact killers didn't get any compensation for these nerfs. Killers didn't get any buffs to thier weakest perks or anything. Meanwhile every change to survivor perks(outside DS) was either a buff or side grade. Take BGP sure it's getting nerf to 150% but it also has it CD halved meaning you get to use it more. Some even saying it could better and stronger now. Sorry for the long reply.
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The problem i have with your post is your assuming everyone can achieve your level of skill. I can tell you right now as someone who plays this game casually and consider myself a average player I have honestly reached my perk on skill for this game after 1400hr of playtime. Also you talk like the MMR system is some super accurate system that pairs ppl of similar skill levels. As a savage killer main who at max uses only two slowdown perks and try to never tunnel, slug or camp that my matches never feel like they are even matches. 90% matches of my matches are completely one sided where I either get a 4k at 4 gens or I get my butt handed to me and at most I get maybe 1-3 hooks. In fact that is one of major reasons I stop playing bc almost all my matches for a long time was miserable and not fun no matter what killer I played.
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Notice how I said "bad Killers will complain after having crutched on gen regression"
If you actually need gen regression, just for example, in a tournament setting, that isn't crutching on it.
If you are stacking four slowdowns to make up for bad gameplay, that is crutching on it. I did not say "all Killers who use regression are bad" and that was very deliberate, I assure you. Likewise, I specified stacking regression perks. I really don't have much of an issue with PR or Pop on their own. It's when they are used in conjunction with other slowdown perks that things become nasty and oppressive very quickly.
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Your long reply is warranted, as it is a nuanced topic. I appreciate you giving it the attention and thought it deserves.
I intentionally specified four slowdown perks. The average player, ideally, should be playing against the average Survivor. We must assume as much or else things get….very messy very fast. Realistically, you do not need four slowdowns, you should probably be bringing one regression and one perk like Corrupt or DMS; then an info or a chase perk or whatever you want to bring and I think that's totally fine.
Killer strengths do vary wildly, but I actually find that to be fairly endearing. I love playing low-tier Killers and getting good enough to win most of my matches. Granted, I'm clearly a psychopath; who else would have spent 6 years on DBD lmao, but I do genuinely enjoy playing Killers like Freddy or GF or Myers simply because it's hard-mode.
I don't think BGP is stronger now. It essentially functions as Sprint Burst, same speed and everything. The halved CD isn't gonna matter unless the Killer is stomping you, two downs in twenty seconds or less is insanely fast.
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Womp womp; I've got almost 14K Killers on a single account.
That's about 13x the amount of escapes lol, but yes, I clearly only play Survivor.
In truth, I have a unique viewpoint. I'm a pretty average Survivor, but someone who has played Killer for the better part of six years and someone who has pushed themselves as far as they can. Dabbling in comp did me wonders and kept my interest in DBD alive for another year.
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I think if they buffed the numbers on other regression perks like surge by like 2-3%, the nerfs to pain and pop wouldn't be interpreted so negatively.
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old ruin should come back
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Even if these changes don't come to the live servers just the fact that they are being speculated makes me to give up and kneel to the mighty Gen Rush.
I'll go back to use my fun Hex build and hope for a miracle of a 3K to happen.2 -
People need to understand that feedback comes with a side of *be careful what you wish for.* The standards you want applied to one side will also be applied to the other. If you want the survivor meta tackled, you can bet the killer meta will be on the line too. If people want their stuff left alone then leave other people's stuff alone. It's why I've been saying repeatedly that we should be asking for improvements to bad perks, not just filling the forum with "nerf this, and this!"
People already talking about survivors gen rushing because regression perks took a slight hit, yet in the same vein people want every other decent survivor perk that keeps them off gens nerfed. Be careful what you wish for. That applies across the board.
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Something has to be done about slowdown stacking regardless. The real issue here is people bringing four strong slowdown perks on upper tier killers who typically fall into the S or A tier. A Billy, Nurse, Blight, etc stacking four slowdowns is just unfair. I have a lot of experience in this game relative to the average player and I can tell you that most killers I see stacking slowdown are higher tier killers. Seeing a blight or hillbilly with 3-4 slowdowns is more common than seeing a Freddy or a Legion doing it.
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I think having weaker regression perks will be a good base to start buffing weaker killers.
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The issue is I dont think the average killer is always playing against average survivors in this game at all. I agree killers should be fine with one or two slowdowns as long as they pair with ppl equal to their own skill but there lies the biggest issue I have with dbd, its mmr system. I have been saying for over a year now that the MMR system is too lax when pairing players and most games are completely one side and rarely even.
As I said tho, Im fine with the nerfs since yall pretty minor but if this is supposed to change the meta it's not. Ppl will always run slowdown and just nerfing slowdown is only going to force players like me to run more than two slowdowns since its going to feel like we have too to make up for the nerfs. I just wish the weaker killer perks were given some love or reworks as well.
I don't consider myself a great player, I see myself as an average player who just wants to log in once in a while and play a killer I enjoy. Im not looking to master any of them or get too "high" mmr. I believe I reached my skill cap and Im happy with that. Im not once who wants to stress about such things, I play games to have fun and relax. I just don't want to lose matches so badly that Im not having fun. Getting completely stomped and only getting 3 hooks before all gens competed is miserable
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Killers get catapulted to high MMR on ez wins against soloQ, and then they meet SWFs who can do gens in seconds, and so start crying about gen speeds. Gen speed has never been a problem, the problem is always in SWF. No matter how hard you try to defend gens against SWF, they sill will fly, while soloQ won't be able to genrush you even if you don't equip any slowdown perks. Ridiculous 90 second gen time is one of the reasons why soloQ now is unbearable. This huge difference in efficiency between solo and SWF is the core reason of most of the game's problems, introducing some gameplay differences between SWFs and soloQ, like increasing gen time for SWF proportionally, would be the only way to even start addressing the issue.
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In the first place
trying to adjust perks by weakening them is a mistake in itself.
Instead of making strong perks weaker
weak perks should be made stronger.
Even if we make adjustments to narrow down the options
it will only lead to player frustration.
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remind me the time that even surge could become meta.
Pathetic.
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Have to agree here.
Nobody NEEDS to run pop and pain res. Im playing without them on Pig and Sadako for months and i perform absolutely fine. Not just these two. Plague, Nemesis, Singularity, Xeno and Legion have also worked out absolutely fine so far.
People are just tooo afraid to go out of their comfort zone.
If slowdown doesnt help you, maybe take aura and chase? Natural slowdown does exist.
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Surge is a really good perk. What are your standards???
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I don't know where the "Surge is a really good perk" come from.
But before the day, the day when killer still have the choice to choose perk.
Surge was a garbage perk that no one want to use.
But after patch after patch, not sure the fourth or fifth patch that nerfing killer's perk.
killer literally have no perk to use that even surge become a meta perk.
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As I said to pulser and someone else, these comments come from a place of "well if I can do it you can too." Which isn't true at all. Not everyone is at the same skill level and perform the same. Everyone has strengths and weakness when it comes to gaming. Just because you and pulser can win games with little to no slowdown means I can or someone else can. I don't believe everyone can achieve the same level of skill. There to many factors like physical and mental states, time, and overall mind set. Some of us don't eat, drink and breathe DBD. The avg player will most likely only play few hours and night or week.
Here the bestest issue and I will continue to say this, the MMR system doesn't not allows pair you up with similar skill players. In fact in my case MMR system barely works because 90% of my matches are completely stomps. Very rarely I get a match that feel good and fun.
Ultimately my issue with comments like yours is that they seem to come from a idea that everyone can achieve the same level of skill and play as you and I honestly believe that simply not true.
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I understand your point in MMR being inconsistent, and because of that it feels unfair to gauge certain things. But I think the problem with that reason is that it completely shuts down any hope for compromise, understanding or conversation. It feels like a way to shut down anything. Someone could say "Well MMR doesn't work" as a justification for literally anything in the game.
So I ask, in your opinion, If solutions can't be accepted to problems with reasoning being the inconsistency of MMR, how could the game or the people that play the game move forward?
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I used surge since I bought dbd, which was twins release. I bought it with demo, so surge was literally my first regression perk. Still my favourite.
What are your standards?
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"People are just tooo afraid to go out of their comfort zone"
This is exactly what it is. I purposely change up my builds every now and then so I don't get too dependent on any one perk. I have constantly come across perks where I'm like 'wow, I cant give this one up' But I always do, and it's always fine. I think some people just use the same perk/s for so long and they've convinced themselves of something that's not true. People don't give their game sense enough credit.
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I don't breathe dbd. I just played it for a long time at this point.
I have reduced the time I put into dbd a lot recently because other games felt more rewarding for the free time I spend to play (which is often limited).
Mmr does often not work properly. However, you also have to take into account, that in dbd, your load out regulates the outcome of a match a lot. People can be at your skill level (whatever that means) and completely stomp you. Not because they where better than you (again, whatever that means) but because they braucht way better stuff than you.
This way, one can be beaten by people that are a lot worse at the game. Dbd is not balanced around "skill". It's balanced around kills and escapes and however these come to be. These kills and escapes often have nothing to do with skill.
If slowdown becomes more in line with other perks and other problems are also looked at (toolboxes, early game for killer, huge power gaps between killers). Then mmr would probably work a lot better because people would not get carried this hard.
What you want is for everything to remain the same because you want to consistently win. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I want that the game is in a better spot, where the outcome is not decided by the preequipped load out and more one the plays that happen in game.
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Agree!
I'm not taking myself out of this. I'm addicted to Stbfl on pig for over 2 years now.
I know that I could use other stuff. But I'm refusing to do so.
However, I think it's fine when it's one chase or aura perk (BBQ for a lot of people). It becomes a problem when it's 2-3 slowdown perks that are equipped on every killer, every single game.
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Totally agree.
People have different talents/skills. Some are good in reading others. Another players have ninja-like reflexes and so on…
Assuming all people have the same skills is stupid to say the least.
Not anyone can live in DbD and/or maybe have some kind of issue that compensates for good game skills.
Also this is the second time I try to edit my comment and it simply vanishes.
Even DbD forums are infested with bugs.😂1 -
I would have no choice but to continue to use it even if the numbers were nerfed because there are no other decent options. You may want to put an aural reading perk or other perk on it to make it chase, but it is useless because the distortion blocks the majority of the search perks.
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surge only hit 8%/gens.
Even if it hit 3gens (24%) it is still weaker than other meta gen perk in that moment.
And most of the time it only hit 1 gen sometime 2.
And because the survivor usually will want to loop the killer away from the working gen so teammate can do the gen ⇒ your surge won't hit the target gen you want.
⇒so when the perk come out every body call it a garbage perk and nobody use it for a really long time.
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"Wonder why" all killers stacking all these slowdowns? Because they're super strong and a easy way to win without even trying basically because the value is insane. Not because the gens are going fast. From super strong down to strong.
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What about survs stacking 2nd chance perks?
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There's no survivor strong perk combination that is even close to value and strength to a killer one.
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Surge is free though so you don't have to go out of your way to use it. It's maybe one of the best slowdown perks against bully squads since their usual strategy of goading killers to waste time often blows up in their face. I especially like it on stealth killers because of how frequently you can catch survivors around gens.
It's not at the level of any current meta slowdown perks, but it's not bad and hasn't ever been on the right killers. Now that the meta is shaking up, you might be seeing it a bit more often if you play survivor.
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Yes, but surge inflicts regression and if there are no survivors nearby, that gen starts to regress. Why people forget about that?
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I used it. And am still using it. Yes. It's worse than pop and pain res. That's good. Not bad. These perks are too much.
What I like about surge is:
- Works better on all m1 killers than m2 killer (the only really strong killer that benefits is spirit)
- It works completely passive (I don't have to kick gens)
I would use this perk if it where only 2% regression out of these reasons.
I play the match out normally and this perk gives me valuable regression without me doing much except what im good at.
That's a good perk in my book.
What are your standards for a good perk?
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Nah, you're right.
I must be seeing things. There's no way a combination of perks would make the killer get a 2nd hook on a surv only after hitting them three times while they are injured.6 -
Sorry that's ridiculous
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