Anti tunnel perks should have exhausted type of effect

So whenever you play against SWF, you are supposed to stand AFK for the whole trial? Because you can't win against SWFs without tunneling.

Other things exist, like playing for fun, or even playing to improve your own gameplay.

Anyone complaining that the other side is sweating doesn't want to play comp. That's the definition of competitive play.

What anti tunnel perk do you deem problematic for you to assume that? It fully depends on the level the players are at, the killer that is in play and the other circumstances, usually players the level of Otzdarva, KNightlight, Hens and so on don't have issues with those kind of swf you describe.. Also I don't think every swf at that level only runs anti tunnel perk... What do you even consider anti tunnel if you run 4 of them? Endurance can be neglected by getting an early hit and then going after them, that also somewhat negates ds, because they cannot locker ds you when in deep wound, therefore they will end up on the floor, that in case you still want to tunnel someone despite knowing their entire load out tries to counter you.

Otherwise just hit into the endurance and then chase the guy who unhooked, then you down and hook him, I fail to see where the issue is.

You still seem to be unable to tell good swf and comp swf apart... That is quite a big deal though...

Also no, not all anti tunnel perks are banned, they are just limited in the amount…

With that kind of "constructive discussion" you might not even bother saying anything to me, I will just continue to ignore you.

Good SWFs can rush gens in a few minutes unless you tunnel one of them out as soon as possible. This applies for both comp teams and ordinary SWFs with good coordination, since coordinated gen spread is not an exclusively comp level skill.

And of course if you are asked to provide any proof of that, you will just disappear, like you always do. Not to mention this topic is completely irrelevant here.

thing is solo can be decent coordination team two men swf team with decent coordination can be a nightmara.

I had a game last night where I took 2 survivors out there was 2 others hiding still doing gens(there was 2 gens left)they some how(even tho I hook each of them 1 time) but was able to some how do both gens and get out.

they had to be a 2 men group because I kept going back to two gens I had to kick and I one point 1 of the gens I couldn't kick anymore so they must of been one on each gen calling me out ever time I was coming back to that gen because I could never find them.

I provided comp games as an example of how things go at the top level. The highest amount of pressure a killer can apply is to keep 3 survivors busy, not 4, unless they screw up badly. So however good you might be playing as the killer, there will always be the 4th survivor slamming gens, and if the survivors are good, they will rotate you for long enough to finish all 5 gens. That's why if the survivors know what they are doing, hook spreading equalizes to 4 escapes. It doesn't take a comp team to coordinate gens and know how to loop and rotate the killer among the team. The fact that in comp it's 100% tunneling and camping just shows what the game turns into when all the players are at the top of the skill ceiling, just the pure and crystalized skill looks like this, and it tells a lot about the game balance.

And once again, all your argument can be summed up as "not all SWFs are that good", so basically the killer is supposed to just hope the SWF they deal with is indeed "not that good". You still never said anything about what to do if the team is actually good and you can't tunnel, because even comp tier killers can't provide a solution to this problem.

I think Ruin should have not been nerfed in the first place in 6.1.0. The combo of Ruin/Undying/Tinkerer was completely unhealthy, but IMO the main culprit was Tinkerer and since this also got nerfed in 6.1.0, there was no reason to nerf Ruin as well.

(But it was mostly done to "shake up the meta"…)

But if you hard tunnel one person then 3 other guys are doing generators, you are intensifying the issue by not spreading pressure... The best thing to do is to chase 2 people while switching between them... Let me explain.

You hook Survivor A, then you go for Survivor B, meanwhile A gets unhooked and healed, therefore two other survivors are busy. You now hook survivor B and go back for survivor A and so on until both are dead and then you basically won the game, this way you don't get affected by anti tunnel perks in the best case and you spread pressure.

If you hard tunnel one person and ignore the unhooker then you will just have 3 people on generators the entire time while you eat DS and OTR like it is a Burger... You also miss the opportunity to go for the weak link. The reason why they tunnel in comp is because anti tunnel perks are limited there, they cannot happen twice, that is however a thing in normal matches, which is why it is not comparable to our situation...

But since that would require you to both play as survivor, and challenge
your core belief that SWF is the devil, that will likely never happen.

Ah, finally, that "you are just a killer main" gotcha. Sure, but everyone here already knows that I play both roles, and I used to play survivor much more than killer, mainly because killer queues are usually longer. Later, though, indeed I try to play killer more, but only because soloQ survivor is as completely hopeless experience. But anyway, telling me I am wrong because I'm a "killer main", even though I'm clearly not, is not a constructive argument. Moreover, I can use the same ad hominem against you and just say "you are just a SWF-main" and be done with it.

Practice tells that if you hard tunnel one person while losing 3 gens, it's generally worth it, because playing 1v3 at 2 gens is much easier that playing 1v4 at basically any number of gens. If you are decent and play as a mobile killer, you will be able to finish the survivor while eating all their OTR's and DS's, that's why tunneling still worked well even with all those perks. The new Babysitter, on the other hand, gives the survivor an unconditional speedhack for half a minute, which you won't be able to swallow anymore. Now the whole paradigm is falling apart, and the only reliable counter against decent SWFs stops working.

You don't have to tell me how the pressure works. I know it well, the highest pressure a killer can achieve is 3 people busy not doing gens. It goes like this: you hook a survivor, chase another one, and a third one is going for unhook and heal. So, 3 people not doing gens. That's how you play once one survivor is out of the game. If the 4th survivor is still alive, they will be pushing gens while you are juggling survivors. And if they are good, they will do it for long enough to finish the gens.

Your example with targeting 2 survivor usually works well, but only against SWFs who are not coordinated enough to counter that. If they are good, once one of their teammate is on the death hook, you will not be seeing that survivor until the end of the trial. They will force you to rotate them, basically spreading hooks, so that the total rotation of 8 hooks gives them more than enough time to finish all the gens. And hiding one dead on hook teammate when you are rotating hooks even just between 2 survivors is much easier than if you are focusing one player, because the dead on hook survivor will not go for unhook and for aggro attraction, you will lose them and probably never find them again until they tbag you at the gates.

I agree that in comp that 100% of killers have to tunnel. At the top levels of this game, it's heavily survivor-sided and forcing the 3v1 as early as possible/chewing through the least number of health states to get to it is the only way to play.

But the problem is that almost all matches - including SWF matches - are not at the top level of the game. And tunneling defenders, for all that they cite comp matches and stacked SWF, rarely care about the actual skill level of the survivors, or the speed at which gens are moving, when they tunnel. They just do it as a dominant strategy and claim their 4ks at 5 gens aren't overkill because the survivors might have been good.

Because yes, I've also seen your many posts that solo is miserable (I wonder why), and also the posts about how survivors deserve to be tunneled and slugged with extreme prejudice because they might tbag you if you don't kill them all ASAP. Personally I think it is possible these two things may be related.

Anyway, OP is ridiculous. Anti-tunnel perks are some of the best and healthiest kinds of perks to verse because they don't require perks or communication as counterplay - you can dynamically change your strategy on the fly once you recognize the perks are in play. And in comp, where this actually matters as opposed to moving the EZ win button slightly further out of reach, those perks will be limited anyway.

The game should never be balanced around SWF

They need to remove collision from a survivor while it has endurance / OTR. That's the a change i think its needed so people don't weaponize anti-tunnel perks.

I do think it should, but only under the circumstances where solo and swf have the exact same information... If you have the same tools on all players that makes it far easier to balance.

Well technically it is 50 50 between swf and soloQ. Just not 4 men swf, but swf in general.

Better idea is the perks disable if they're healthy. The problem is not they body block with endurance, its they body block being healthy and with endurance.

For now, if survivors body block with OTR, just tunnel them because they ask for it. Lucky that body block with healthy + endurance are rare.

Not really, they can still ds you then, but they cannot bodyblock at all if their anti tunnel perk is still up, which is Allright.

I recomend you to do that then when seeing high prestige survivors... I won today 5 in a row in soloQ with them and most games killers had couple hooks.

Meanwhile I played swf and we died every game and not any killer tunneled and even they played for 8 hooks. Competent teammates in soloQ are much better than average swf.