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  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 14,802

    there have been plenty of people in this community asking for Lara Croft to be added though?

    Definitely way more than people were asking for Nicolas Cage and also for a pretty long time already..

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732

    An action hero dying does not mean that they are a horror game character

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732
    1. the T-rex is not a horror character it is a real creature that existed many years ago and has been played up as a predator in action movies such as Jurassic Park
      2. Doesn't matter what kind of 'survivor' she is in lore, the entity isn't real its a video game character.
      3. Im not going over the tired argument of trickster not being horror solely because of his design its pathetic tbh

    4. Again, the entity doesn't actually exist

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 733
    edited June 30

    Right, but making numerous intentionally horrific and scary sequences in said games means it is a game with horror connections, and thus isn't out of place in a horror game?

    Chris in RE5 is one of the most plain examples of an action hero I can think of, should RE as a whole have been discounted because parts of it weren't scary?

    Is the arbitrary label we attach to the game's genre what matters for inclusion or is it the actual content inside of it that matters? Cause you can put footage of Lara and Jill being mauled side by side next to each other and I don't think a lot of people will tell you only one of the images is horrifying.

    Tomb Raider 2013 wasn't trying to be a funny silly action game, it was upsetting, gory, scary at multiples points, and horribly depressing. Regardless of whether anything I just said makes it a 'horror' game or a game with 'horror' connections in your eyes, you can't deny that all of those descriptors are perfect for the world of DBD.

    As I've said before, I would rather we get more pure horror licences that are pillars in the genre. F13, Predator, Candyman, FNAF, Amnesia, Slender, Dead Space, etc. all would bang in my opinion. But no, I don't see Lara pissing off an eldritch deity and getting trapped in a purgatory loop of Meg Tbagging and Blight head nods as out of place for her series or for DBD. In fact, it sounds like Tuesday.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    I have never once seen a person ask for Lara Croft to be added to this game. What would be the point? People will play her, but with a list miles long of iconic horror franchises that could come to this game I feel like Tomb Raider wouldn't even be part of that conversation.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,902

    I haven't seen a single person ask for Lara Croft until this month.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,902
    edited June 30

    I'm still waiting on Frank West from Dead Rising, especially now that Dead Rising 1 is getting a remake. I'll also take Rick Grimes from The Walking Dead, and Dale Cooper from Twin Peaks, and RJ MacReady from The Thing. I'll even take someone from House of the Dead, like Agent G. The list goes on and on and on.

    You know what would be a dream? Ben, from the original The Night of the Living Dead.

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,875
    edited June 30

    As long as they fit into a horror setting without sticking out or seeming out of place, I don't think it matters that much if the character is from a horror franchise or not.

    As I mentioned in another thread, a character like Scarecrow from Batman or the Weeping Angels from Doctor Who aren't technically horror but they still fit the theme of DbD fine and I doubt anyone would claim they don't.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374
    edited June 30

    Yea. There's so many franchises they could try to work with that would enhance DBD's world in the genre of horror. DBD is a vibe check with its characters, and Lara Croft being in the game messes with that vibe. Its like if they tried to put Pokemon into a Street Fighter game. It just doesn't make sense.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,970

    I don’t know if people have asked on this forum, but I have seen her mentioned on Reddit years ago. She was definitely wanted by some people for a long time.

  • IronKnight55
    IronKnight55 Member Posts: 2,970
    edited June 30

    Nope. She was asked for on Reddit (some posts go back 4+ years). Maybe she was asked for on this forum as well… I’d have to do some digging tho. lol @Smoe

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    Yea, but the amount of people who have talked about wanting Jason Voorhees in DBD for example compared to how many want Lara Croft is probably like a thousand to one.

  • Mooks
    Mooks Member Posts: 14,802

    it sadly doesn’t matter, it’s just a moving goalpost. Some people just like to complain and that’s all there is to their argumentation.

    Even if no one asked for Lara to be added, that isn’t really an indication if she fits in or not or if the community like her inclusion. Look at Nicolas Cage - no one asked for him, he isn’t a horror character, but his inclusion was a big success and most of the community liked it.

  • KateMain86
    KateMain86 Member Posts: 2,374

    What? She's my favorite version of Lara Croft. 😁 I still think she's very far at the bottom of the list of characters that fit in DBD's world. The thought of her coming to DBD would've never crossed my mind if not for that thread and she's certainly not a character I'd actively ask for to be in the game.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732

    Well we didn't get RE5 Chris even as a legendary skin and hes still attached to the most popular survival HORROR video game franchise of all time. Its both the label and the content especially for horror a game genre which is sickeningly underrepresented in gaming as a whole. And mind you using gameplay elements in this argument is entirely null and void because again its about the horror genre as a whole. 99% of fortnite collabs dont fit AT ALL in fortnite and they still shove and force them in anyways which is my point that DBD is heading in that same direction

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 733

    RE came with Flashbang, Blast Mine, and later Wiretap along with a guy ripped from the Matrix. Whether the label attached to it or not is horror, RE brought more action to DBD than TR ever will just by the nature of game design. I'm confused, you're fine with Action being included in DBD, so long as isn't coming from an Action series? Am I misunderstanding this?

    Saying Gameplay mechanics are null and void because this is about the horror genre as a whole is entirely what makes me bored of this convo, because it sees licences as posters on a wall and nothing more. This isn't a game where you buy statues of characters and make them look pretty, it's a game, you play it. We shouldn't be adding licences for the sake of arbitrary nonsense like 'representation' because there will always be more to represent. As I've said earlier, I would appreciate more pillars of the horror genre be included. But that's the thing, isn't it? Horror is fluid, what you consider horror and what others do will vary. For instance,

    https://www.reddit.com/r/TombRaider/comments/1dmngh5/tomb_raider_2013_a_horror_game/Do you still want to argue about this being a game with 'horror' connections?

  • AbsolutGrndZer0
    AbsolutGrndZer0 Member Posts: 1,445
    edited June 30

    OMG THAT WOULD BE LIT. Give us "The Parasite" as killer and Aya Brea as survivor. Then maybe if they can get the license, Legendaries of the original two that first fought against Eve.

    (For those that do not know, Parasite Eve the game was based upon a popular Japanese horror novel, however instead of directly making the movie into a game, they decided to do the game as a sequel to the book! The original events took place in Japan, and they are mentioned in the game when you are talking to the guy that came over from Japan to help, he was one of the original humans that stopped Eve.)

    Here is a fan made trailer for the movie, which actually was based on the book.

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732

    Correction I actually hate the action in DBD which is why when more action is brought in IE Tomb Raider it pushes me further away from this game hence why I moved onto TCM mostly. Finnesse alone has brought more action into the game than anything in RE just with that (poorly animated at that) animation. At least flashbang isn't an actual flashbang, blast mine is a trap, and Wesker is a survival horror gaming icon where all of his actual action elements have been essentially removed.

    And yes I do because nothing shown takes away from the fact Tomb Raider isn't horror its an action game. Something having minor horror connections again doesn't make it a horror game like??? Why are you guys so desperate to just suck up anything BHVR puts out its unironically proving my point further that DBD is going down the same path as fortnite where its players will just eat up any forcefully shoved in collab they can.

    Mario has bones is Mario horror eligible? Spongebob has the hash slinging slasher might as well throw in a spongebob chapter since I guess tiny itty bitty horror connections make something officially part of the horror genre and eligible for DBD

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,854

    Surely you wouldn't go so far as to say that Tomb Raider is AS far away from horror as Mario and Spongebob, though?

    The game they're picking from here is pretty heavily steeped in horror inspiration and imagery. Lara spends a fair amount of time in that game fighting for survival against an overwhelming supernatural foe, routinely stumbling across horrifying setpieces and confronting death at every turn. It's basically in the same vein as Left 4 Dead; horror imagery and inspiration while still ultimately being an action game rather than a true horror game.

    Bill has been in the game for a long time, so that baseline has been pretty clearly established for a long while. It's not unfitting for DBD, and not a "forcefully shoved in collab", as long as there's horror imagery and inspiration in the IP.

    That's not to say DBD hasn't been testing the boundaries- the Dungeons and Dragons collab was an interesting look into how DBD would adapt something that wholly isn't horror by teasing out the elements of horror it does have. I think there's a lot of room for DBD being allowed to do that, and to test what fits in the game… but Tomb Raider isn't that. Tomb Raider is just a pretty straightforwardly sensible addition that just fits without too much effort.

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 733
    edited July 1

    Wesker has no action in him? You mean, you think the literal orchestra he walks around with is horror? And you also think his power is more horror than action? Tell me, since Wesker is so scary, how terrified were you when he pulled out a second pair of glasses after having the first one punched off in his Mori? You know, I think a lot of people would find a killer who has infinite supplies of Sunglasses in their back pocket goofy, but to each their own.

    Imma be real bro, saying the bones in Mario are the same as 'Minor' horror connections like 2013 literally being initially designed as a Survival Horror game to the point basically everyone on that thread admitted TR 2013 was horror or horror adjacent really just proves you wanna argue about this more than you wanna make a compelling point. Show Mario falling off a cliff, Lara being mauled by wolves, and Jill being snapped in half by a crocodile and I'm pretty sure you know which two clips are going to be causing more heart rates to rise.

    If you want to go in circles in this, go ahead, just don't pretend this is about what fits in DBD. If none of the Action stuff RE brought matters, there is literally nothing Lara has to poison the game, and pretending that Mr Matrix is somehow more fitting than her despite being patently sillier in design and execution really just says that this is about a genre label more than how scary it actually makes the gameplay.

    When Wesker stops saying one liners and Lara starts falling through warp pipes, then you'll have a point about what fits. But for as long as I hear "Seven Minutes is all I can spare to play with you." in a match with no seven minute timer whatsoever, you'll never be able to convince me RE hasn't brought more goofy action to this game than the traumatized Island Survivor who cauterizes her own wounds with heated arrows.

    Post edited by ArkInk on
  • arcaneGospel
    arcaneGospel Member Posts: 243

    Lara's only a problem if Jill Valentine is. Lara seems perfectly fine as an adaptation, let's be real—If Vecna and Wesker were allowed in DbD, Lara feels uninteresting rather than offensive. Vecna and Wesker make it clear to me that the problem is how a character is adapted, and they—to my knowledge, I can't play the PTB as a console player—didn't make Lara Croft half as much of an action-centric character as they did Wesker.

  • Cryptikk
    Cryptikk Member Posts: 419
    edited July 1

    Damn, you ######### destroyed them in a few paragraphs 😀

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732
    edited July 2

    The difference here is L4D those are just normal people put into a situation against their will. Laura knowingly throws herself in these situations and is a badass action hero who can backflip pistol shoot her way out of damn near anything😭

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732
    edited July 2

    Help since when was chase music what made a characters genre LMAO and I'm sorry that I dont agree with random redditors and take their word as gospel, a lot of which admitted they dont play or touch horror as a genre period.
    And dont act like the sunglasses thing isn't from BHVR being lazy and not just having him be without glasses after he does a mori like be real its not meant to be a cool action thing its literally just BHVR not wanting to create the code to keep his glasses off his face.

    "when lara starts falling through warp pipes" I mean we have several in our latest map that DnD brought us so??? And again you guys loooooooooooooooooove missing the entire point huh? One of the worst things about Lara coming is that it shows DbD is moving away from horror in favor of seeing what they can jam into DbD to make the most money which is my point. I don't like the direction they're going in and have been going in this past year of blatantly disregarding horror in favor of money and crossovers.

    (Adding, one liners that mind you I'm not a fan of either vs doing a horribly animated leap over every obstacle…I can ignore the one liners I cant ignore the horrid leap lol)

  • HamsterEnjoyer
    HamsterEnjoyer Member Posts: 732

    Tbf I have a HUGE problem with Vecna too and I wouldn't have wanted Wesker regardless. I would've rathered an Re1 chapter with chris, jill, and Tyrant/Lisa Trevor then an Re2 chapter with Leon, Ada, and either Mr X or Birkin (I dont like Claire but love Ada lol)

  • jesterkind
    jesterkind Member Posts: 7,854

    I feel like you're not considering WHICH Lara Croft we're getting, here, because the version we're getting very much didn't throw herself into her respective situation, nor is she a particularly bombastic action star. In fact, to my recollection, the closest Lara gets to really being an empowered action hero is when she gets a grenade launcher and pushes her opponents onto the back foot for a short section.

    We're not getting the action hero version of Lara, we're getting the survival horror version. Or, at least, the version that's very close to a survival horror protagonist.

  • arcaneGospel
    arcaneGospel Member Posts: 243

    I really don't think non-Nemesis tyrants would have worked. They'd be bland, really. Birkin would also be pretty limited. My problem with Wesker isn't that he could never work, but that he could never work if they went with his RE5 appearance. His earlier appearance in RE1 would have made for a very interesting setup killer with zombies as enemies and traps, kind of like in REsistance. But, really, I think Nemesis is the only truly good pick for a killer in the first few games, and then the best otherwise is Jack Baker.

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 733
    edited July 3

    Alright sure man. Coding error is why Wesker has an infinite supply of sunglasses on him and the loudest and most action sounding tr, clearly now it can be entirely overlooked how utterly cartoonish a concept it is that he has them on him. Lara jumping a window differently is action hero garbage but Leon throwing a Flashbang is perfectly on brand for the game? Right. Tomb Raider fans all say 2013 was basically horror? You wanna pretend it's a Mario game in disguise, okay. Idk what to tell you other than there's a reason the devs haven't followed your needlessly arbitrary line of thinking.

    Leon is an badass action hero throwing out round houses, so is Lara. The difference would be in tone, if Tomb Raider 2013 wasn't designed to be horror adjacent. So now you're forced to either recognize that you simply have an opinion on Tomb Raider 2013 most don't share, or you could simply keep denying that Tomb Raider 2013 has any horror in it, and I think I know which route you'll go.

    If you wanna pretend I'm asking for Mickey Mouse to be added because I don't think a character whose swam through a river of blood to get here is out of place, then I'm sorry, I disagree and I'm glad you don't design the game.

    Post edited by ArkInk on
  • Coriander
    Coriander Member Posts: 1,119

    As a licensed character, she's on the fringe of horror, but she's been there nonetheless. As it stands, none of the original survivors (maybe Sable) are tied to any sort of horror, and they're in the game. I think the horror-only characters should remain Killers, and we can get any Survivor we want, because they would also try to survive a nightmare realm, even if they came from a cartoon.