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Player Safety Issue That Needs Addressed
Yesterday in a match my character, a female, was in a dying state and instead of picking her up and hooking, the killer instead attempted to simulate sex on her. And did not stop despite male character teammates coming in to try and get in the way. I botted, and the killer then proceeded to do the same to the other female character in my SWF.
This isn't the first time it's happened when I play female characters. I'm a Twitch DBD streamer, so fortunately I was live at the time and could reference timestamps in my stream when I reported, and similar past incidents have had action taken on them.
But this shouldn't even be happening. It isn't funny. It is gross. It is violating. It is taking advantage of another's helpless state, and it isn't even in the list of ban-able offenses for the game.
I would love to see Behavior take some kind of action here. Personally, I'd love some kind of timer where if the killer stands over a prone survivor for a certain period of time, that survivor is teleported to a random spot on the map and only in an injured state instead of a dying one (would also help instances where killer is just following a survivor around, watching them bleed out). But, at the absolute least, collision should be adjusted so that a killer cannot stand on top of a prone survivor. They can grab/mori as usual being next to the survivor, there is no need to occupy the same space.
Comments
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I'm very glad to see a discussion starting on this. I have also been subject to the killer simulating sex acts in the past, and I primarily play female characters. I could not agree more that it is not funny, appropriate, or acceptable.
It's very disheartening and disappointing to be playing a game for fun and escapism only to face this harmful and non-consensual behavior. It is equally disturbing and distressing to witness it happening, even if it's not happening to me. As a sexual assault survivor, these acts are triggering and unsettling. There is simply no place or reason for these actions, ever, anywhere. At the very least, I would appreciate action being taken even without video evidence to point to. I've submitted reports in the past that have seemingly gone nowhere.
I love this game and I have long been impressed by how deliberate Behaviour has been in their efforts to be inclusive for all gamers. I echo the sentiments above that there must be some sort of solution implemented to counter this genuinely toxic gameplay.
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Take action on what exactly? The killer moving over a downed survivor isn't against any rules.
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I do agree - but I also think there is no chance of anything being done about it, simply because it's not feasible. The difference between a killer struggling to get the pick up prompt and doing this purposefully with malicious intent is always a judgement call; needs a human to review and eveluate on a case by case basis.
The only way I see this getting addressed in an actually actionable way is if killers physically couldn't walk over a surv like that. Which would create a whole host of other issues when it comes to picking a survivor, especially when other survivors try to bodyblock, pick up of save one way or the other.
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But simulating sex over them should be, which is the entire point of the post.
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Survivors have been teabagging at killers for years. Are you going to suggest we also start banning survivors for crouching in the vicinity of the killer, because it's simulating a sex act?
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The OP specifically said taking action on a killer standing over a prone survivor for a certain amount of time. That amount of time could be set at a length that makes it extremely unlikely that it's just a newbie killer struggling to get the pickup prompt.
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I don't think you really understand how silly it is to ban people for using basic controls.
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There is a very big difference between crouching in the vicinity of a killer who is able to walk away or hit the survivor and a survivor laying on the ground who can do absolutely nothing to remove themselves from the situation.
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If you don't understand the difference between simulating sex on the body of a downed survivor who cannot get away, and crouching up and down a few feet away from a perfectly able-bodied killer, then this post is not for you.
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Both are pretending to be engaging in a sex act. If you really care about this issue you should be against both teabagging and walking over a downed body.
But at the end of the day enforcing any rules against either action is just not going to happen, because both situations are people using controls in game.
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That's kind of a silly way to discount that. That's like asking why someone got banned for throwing slurs in the end game chat, they were only just typing on their keyboard after all.
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There's a quite a difference between using slurs at people in end game chat where there is a clear log proving it happened vs proving movement controls of a character were being used nefariously.
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If someone is "humping" a downed Survivor for an extended period of time maliciously and there is video evidence of that, then I'm pretty sure that's easy to prove.
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As a matter of fact, I am also against teabagging, so your false-equivalency logical fallacy doesn't work against me. Both are disrespectful, but only one is disrespectful AND predatory.
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At the end of the day, it's just the killer moving over a downed body which can happen for many reasons. I don't see this being anything that will result in bans, because otherwise we would have seen bans for survivor teabagging.
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I don't think support will ban people when there's any doubt that the player is acting 100% maliciously. When this is done, it's pretty clear when the killer is doing it deliberately.
I've seen a few sexual assault survivors weigh in on this issue in various different places, and this is a different deal than just teabagging. The connotations of W-Sing on a downed Survivor are a lot more serious, and consistently triggering.
Whether this is something that can be feasibly actioned is up to BHVR, but it's quite clear that this is in a different ballpark than just teabagging.
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If you go back and read the original post, you will see that OP is suggesting gameplay fixes that will discourage the toxic behavior without resorting to banning. It doesn't have to be any harder than the face-camping self-unhook timer. The self-unhook timer activates regardless of whether the killer is purposefully griefing the player on the hook or "accidentally" staying nearby. By putting some sort of timer in the game that gives a killer in-game consequences for standing (or humping) over a prone body for an unreasonable length of time, it eliminates the need for video evidence or for someone to decide whether it was humping, slugging, or "just moving". Everyone got used to the self-unhook timer; everyone can get used to a standing-over-a-prone-body timer too, if BHVR would do it.
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Appreciate you and thanks for weighing in!
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Both are BM and both are innately representing sexual acts. They really aren't that different.
Ultimately there's really nothing that will be done about this. BHVR can't just remove the killer's ability to walk. You can't just dish out bans for reports that basically boil down to "the killer moved" since most people don't record their gameplay and many likely aren't aware support tickets can be used to submit evidence of an in-game report.
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This. Exactly This.
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The fact that you think that BM'ing and ######### simulation are identical makes it clear that you do not understand sexual assault, trauma triggers, or making an inclusive space, and therefore you cannot meaningfully weigh in on this discussion.
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This isn't the first time someone has brought this up and it likely won't be the last, but ultimately there's just not really anything you can realistically expect the devs to do about an issue whose core is from basic killer movement controls.
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It doesn't look anything like humping. It looks like the dude is walking on your character. It's dumb as hell but I had to be told that's what it was to even figure it out. It's happened like twice to me.
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Perhaps you could try to imagine how it could feel to someone with sexual trauma in their history. Understand that, just because something is not a problem for you (and I am very happy that it isn't), that not everyone has the luxury of feeling as you do. Failing that, perhaps you could imagine what it looks like if the killer can crouch, like Ghostface, or is already very close to the ground, like the Vampire's wolf-form. And if that doesn't work either, perhaps your time would be better spent engaging with other posts.
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yeah idk, I think there's a clear difference here between what is being perpetuated via the 'basic movement controls' in both of these situations
at least online player reports w/ video attachments of these types of actions should be dealt with differently than their usual 'slugging is not a bannable offense' response. Not to mention you they're not progressing the game and it's borderline holding you hostage but bhvr refuses to acknowledge it for what it is when it happens because they can't deduce 'intent'. I guess..
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Slugging a survivor to death isn't holding the game hostage since the game will end once the slugged survivors' bar drains to 0.
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I'm sorry that people in a video game are rude sometimes. There's never a time when I'm not going to engage with a post trying to police cringe but ultimately harmless behavior.
Seems to me that you're angling for basekit unbreakable with this as an excuse anyway.
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Seems to me there are a number of SA survivors here trying to explain that triggering a (sadly pretty common) trauma is in fact not "harmless". I agree with the commenter above who compared this to using slurs in end-game chat. Just because slurs or violating behavior aren't harmful to you doesn't mean they're not harmful.
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There's no special control for the killer to move over a dying survivor's body. It's all basic killer controller movement.
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Then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Thank you for helping bring more attention to this very important issue with all the comments.
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If they are going out their way to objectify you and harass you in chat I'd be agreeing, but if it's just ingame actions I bet you it's the slugging you on purpose and wasting your time which is being taken action upon, but I could be wrong.
I think your discomfort is valid, but I think you need to disconnect reality from the game a bit with your assumptions, if they are going out of their way to harass you then absoloutley it needs dealt with, but someone t-bagging or "air humping" as its called in gears where it originated from, I've had it happen when I play male characters too, just people wanting to act bigger than you.
I have had it happen to me a few times when I play, worst case of it was Dracula on the dog straddling my character using the pounce over and over to look questionable. But the player is wasting their own time doing that and you have to make that disconnect, or you're going to make the game miserable for yourself.
I hope you have better experiences in the future.5 -
I do play killer. I play about 50/50 survivor/killer. (I've also experienced sexual violence, for the record, although it isn't necessary to be a SA survivor to still be able to understand and support people who are.) Moving back and forth over a downed survivor is NOT my way of teabagging. If I'm particularly annoyed with a survivor, I might nod at them after I put them on the hook, and then go about my merry killer way, because I have better things to do than go out of my way to violate and upset another player in a video game.
My feelings are completely in check, and I am calmly pointing out that it is valid to call out toxic behavior that is harmful to a large proportion of DBD players, and to suggest ways to discourage or curb it.1
