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Can we talk about how awful reworked coldwind is?
I'd like to present my (crude) drawing of Rancid Abbatoir RNG that a twitch streamer got a few days ago. 8 pallets, 1 breakable wall, 9 windows.
Obstacles unrelated to loops were removed, and what you see here is every (yes, every) resource on the map. I even looked at spots where pallets could spawn to see if any had been dropped but broken, and this is all the map spawned. 4 terrible "jungle gym"s (3 of the somewhat stronger variety, and 1 of the laughably weak variety) and 2 filler pallets. What a laughably weak map.
With better RNG there could have been better jungle gyms here, but this is still pathetic. Genuinely, what resources do survivors have to work with here? Keep in mind that there are no Z wall spawns on rancid or edge map pallets like there were in 2v8. Once the laughable supply of pallets are gone, only shack window, harvester, meat tree, and the 4 L walls can realistically be played. Nothing here is chainable, in fact there are barely any resources for miles. I loaded this map several times against bots in customs to reference while making this image, and although I usually got at least one standard tile instead of these awful gyms, there were always nearly as many deadzones in my variations.
Do you think this map is too lacking in resources? If no, why not, and if so, what do you think should be done to fix it?
Twitch VOD for reference: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2332513216?t=1h14m47s
Comments
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If they're THAT lacking in resources, then raise it by a hair. I personally haven't had any easy killer matches on them. It's all about survivor caliber.
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Rancid Abbatoir is the most killer sided map in the game ever since its rework (more than Haddonfield imo).
The layout/map size is fine and the building is fine, but there are too many deadzones and the pallet count is a bit too low. They just need to fill in some of the empty space and it would mostly be alright, but yeah it's a horrible map right now.
For Coldwind in general: I'd also remove or rework one of the new weaker jungle gym variants, I'm not against introducing new tiles but most of the new ones are notably weaker than the older tiles and that isn't helping either.
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Ngl i think coldwind is quite balanced now
Rotten fields i think it's called with the killer shack in the middle is probably killer sided
But the other ones are actually balanced in my eyes and survivors dont have the option of just dropping pallets willy nilly because theres always like 3 around you at all times
You actually have to outskill the killer at most tiles because as i said before your resources are limited and you best make use of them wisely
Also, rancid Ab was played in comp recently on pinhead and Dracula so it can't be that killer sided compared to something like coal tower and the other maps they use
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If you're referring to the DBDLeague AHL tournament, that one had a special rule where the team who picks a killer also picks the map, so they were picking maps the other team wouldn't have practice on (and iirc, dracula was played on rotten, Mastermind was on Rancid). Not necessarily correlated to how balanced the map is.
Also, would you say the map in question detailed above contains outplay potential in all areas? Specifically the top left area? I find the new jungle gyms and the weaker filler by shack lacking in much meaningful outplay potential against good players without simply holding W, same with the harvester and main building aside from the pallet.
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If you're referring to the DBDLeague AHL tournamentYou beat me to pointing this out. One of the big purposes of the tournament was to play on maps that they don't play as much and it being a surprise.
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I didn't know that about the maps, I assumed it was just handpicked like it is in regular matches
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I've been in genuine disbelief over this map's rework since it was released, and still in disbelief that it hasn't been touched since. The devs are apparently happy with it... why?
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I hate the rework, besides the fact these maps have become very killer sided (except Thompson House Edit: I forgot Torment too), I desperately miss the old dark golden skies of original Coldwind maps. They were my favourite maps and I was absolutely horrified when I saw the new maps and it was brilliant sunlight like it was midday.
I thought the game was Dead by DAYLIGHT? Not Dead in the middle of the day. They absolutely killed the ambience and I so hate what they did with Coldwind.
BRING BACK OLD COLDWIND… please (how could you ruin the best maps?).
Post edited by MaTtRoSiTy on7 -
Most of the cold wind maps are insufferable to play on. Hopefully they revert them and if not, then make the corn more dense and make it nighttime like before. At least it’s nice to look at again.
9 -
Since their reworks;
Borgo, Midwich, Haddonfield and Rancid Abbatoir are terrible maps. They don't have enough loops. Big deadzones. Half of the loops they have are weak and guaranteed hits.
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You know, you having no easy Killer Matches does not mean that Killer is hard. If Killer is hard FOR YOU, this might be a FOR YOU-problem.
But you can objectively say that Coldwind is really bad ressource-wise and Rancid Abattoir is a prime example for that. They made a bunch of super-unsafe Tiles and replaced Jungle Gyms, Longwalls and even T/L-Walls (which were fair to begin with) with those. Obviously the map gets worse with that.
(And especially Rancid Abattoir was quite empty before that)
26 -
I can't stand the bright, happy yellow sunlight on Coldwind either... It totally lost its horror vibe from the original
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I mean, this is a complete different topic, but I think that not many people really like Daytime-Coldwind. Maps got brighter and brighter over time and IMO Daytime-Maps really feel out of place in DBD.
Coldwind was looking so good before the switch to Daytime.
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Not really. Cow tree is still one of the strongest loops in the entire game and some of those windows are vicious.
That said - yes. Coldwind runs the gamut. Rancid is a bit killer sided. Cowshed is a bit survivor sided. It evens out.
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Not really. Cow tree is still one of the strongest loops in the entire game
Really? I wonder about that. The pallet is pretty good and you can usually loop around it a bit, but with just the window I don't find the loop that strong, and I think it's not even as strong as shack or most main buildings. Since it was made a bit shorter some time ago, what would you say keeps it up there with the other strongest loops in the game?
Some of those windows are vicious.
I think the shack window is pretty powerful and a good resource in that area of the map, but I question how much you could accomplish with most of the other windows in the other sections of the map. The weak jungle gym windows are basically secluded L walls. Maybe I'm just not creative enough to see the vision?
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I also prefer the look of nighttime Coldwind. It would be neat if that was at least included as a variant of the maps if the devs don't want to remove the daylight version, but I know I'm being way too optimistic.
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maps should take place at nighttime
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rancid is such a bad map. Everytime I load into that map I expect to die. Too many dead zones and the pallet in that main building is a joke
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As a Survivor, Rancid is bad.
As anyone other than a high tier, LOS needing, mobile, or ranged Killer, Rancid is bad.
As Ghostface Rancid has always sucked. They all sucked. How do I stealth in this?
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Yep they absolutely should, making them middle of the day completely killed the horror ambience.
I feel like a lot of it has to do with the reworked graphical style creating some extremely dark shadows at ultra in some areas. It can be hard to make out details on things, even gens lose definition without filters if you're an ultra settings no filters gamer like me.
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You're right, the killer just has to not continually respect the cow tree pallet and get rid of it early. Then it's just another dead zone. They also make the tile spawn in a useless corner so it's impossible to get out of the area without getting hit if the killer zones properly.
The rest of the windows in that diagram are certainly not "viscous". Shack is shack and the rest of them are terrible.
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People complaining about cow tree is a pretty big tell imo. It's only strong if looped so the survivor gets the fast vault every time, and it's relatively easy to get the pallet dropped by looping the other way (i.e. the correct way).
Since the killer completely determines if this loop is run clockwise or counterclockwise, this is one of the most basic skill checks in the entire game. Just don't run it so that you give the survivor a guaranteed fast vault every time.
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Said before and ill say it again all cold wind and 90% of the maps is now killer sided, i mean its so clear as day when you have someone like huntress picking cold wind. Am about to just farm so much the game maps and spam it none stop.
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I hope they never revert Coldwind back to that god awful night time variant old dbd had, especially with its crappy yellow piss filter.
Post edited by Smoe on2 -
Why though?
I very much enjoyed the griddy esthetics and found it very fitting to the games overall atmosphere.
The bright coldwind feels like a weekend trip to your grandparents. Tbf, that can be horror for some I guess.
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Imo the new coldwind works better than the old one since you could tell they were trying to go for that sort of Texas Chainsaw feel with the nastiness of everything, and I absolutely love it.
All the guts and blood everywhere... you can almost smell that through the screen with how well they portray the horror that went on inside those buildings.
I know its an unpopular opinion, but the Coldwind maps are the best maps aesthetically.
3 -
- Because daylight can exist in horror while still being gritty and like Shroompy mentioned in their reply above, Daytime Coldwind very much gives off the same vibes TCM had in the original movie, something i much more prefer over the yellow night sky old Coldwind had, however i would generally prefer to have both night and daytime maps to exist in dbd rather than just having either a night or daytime map varient only, as having both would give better variety. (Although a night time varient of Coldwind in which the sky is pitch dark instead of yellow would be preferable imo.)
- As i mentioned in my initial comment, i hate the old coldwind's yellow filter with a passion, more so than what i do with all of the other color filters old dbd had and i'm incredibly glad they're all gone. I found Coldwind's especially ugly and generally unpleasant to look at whenever i played on it back in the days.
- It's just my contrarian opinion in a long list of other hot takes i have about this game.
The bright coldwind feels like a weekend trip to your grandparents. Tbf, that can be horror for some I guess.
Which is exactly why i usually take issue with sentiments such as this, because it's in the same vein as whenever people claim ''Horror can't take place during daylight'', which is objectively incorrect.
Post edited by Smoe on2 -
Definitely agree with the sentiment that Coldwind at Night should return, maybe with a rework or new variant that changes the scene. The corn maps have never been a high point in map design for me, and it's kinda shocking they haven't gotten more adjustments.
Kinda unrelated, but one thing I thought would be cool would be making a new cosmetic offering that adds some new aspect to each realm, like changing the time of day on something like Dead Dawg or making it rain on Autohaven. Could be a solid place for Night Coldwind, among other neat additions.
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No it isnt.. you force the survivor to run window short side and its an easy down.
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Good points!
I guess it sometimes comes down to preference though. I liked the old ones more despite the awful graphics.
I can absolutely see why you like it.
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Dude. Even comp level players regard cow tree as a hell of a loop. If you're an M1, you've got a decent vault, a very tight angle and a great pallet.
What?
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I'll see if I can find you a clip from Otz's stream a bit back where he explained just how nasty it is as an m1.
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I actually agree with this. Yes, it sucks for my Main - but horror is allowed to take place during the day too. In some cases it can be even darker than if it occurred at night.
That said, I want day and nighttime variants of EVERY map. I wanna see dark Ormond outside of Lights Out once in a while, please.
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yeah the cold wind maps are rly bad for both sides tbh.
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