Feedback and Suggestions

Feedback and Suggestions

Remove Map Variants!

Member Posts: 1,863

Before you start assuming things, keep in mind I mean the ones marked with roman numerals, that only shuffle the map around.

They really, really suck.

First of all, they are yet another thing to learn (as if we didn't have enough maps to learn) and be confused by. I cannot tell Badham II from Badham IV and I don't think anyone does.

As if Badham wasn't enough, they added one to each MacMillan map, 2 to Ormond (so you won't see the new map even if you bring an offering) and one to each Yamaoka maps (even though they are fine).

My suggestion?

Remove Badham II - V and the new MacMillan, Ormond and Yamaoka variants.

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Comments

  • Member Posts: 968

    I agree in some way: in my opinion, the developers should keep the best version (and improve it if necessary) and remove the other varients. For example, I think the coal tower variant is better than the original for both sides while Ormond II can be balanced once they fix the deadzone around the little house. Badham I is the most average one and easier to balance than all five varients.

    Having so many variants is just unnecessary for the game for many reasons:

    • New players have already so much to learn (perks, tiles, maps, addons, gamesense ect.) and adding variants to the game makes it even harder for them, especially when the game is not telling them that it is a variant or not - they get confused but not only new players, even more experienced players get confused by variants and no one can tell which Badham is which based on the numbers.
    • With the upcoming Realm Repeat Prevention, we will see more different maps which means we don't need these variants any longer for more diversity.
    • It is already difficult to balance maps and the variants make it even more difficult. We still live a world where we have extremely bad maps (Eyrie, Badham, Haddonfield) and instead of wasting time by adding variants, they should invest this time in fixing problematic maps. This would help us much more than a new variant that we will see every 200 matches.
    • Some variants are just problematic as hell. For me, both original Yamaoka maps are balanced maps for both sides (still some issues but very few and little). However, their variants can be really disgustion for killers depending on the rng (here are two examples of a match during the chaos shuffle):

    Here we have a Pallet that connects perfectly into a four lane window which should never happen! A pallet should never line up with a window because this is a nightmare for every M1 killer and even stronger ones struggle with it.

    A filler pallet fits perfectly with the shack which is also really problematic because it makes the loop so much bigger and the survivor has much more safety. Shack on it's own is a fair loop with which some kilers struggles but also getting a pallet next to it makes it more problematic because it can make a huge difference between a quick or long chase.

  • Member Posts: 1,863

    in my opinion, the developers should keep the best version (and improve it if necessary) and remove the other varients

    With the upcoming Realm Repeat Prevention, we will see more different maps which means we don't need these variants any longer for more diversity.

    These two points. Agree 100%.

  • Member Posts: 3,888
    edited January 28

    It's not a bad point to be fair.

    I guess the reason is along with all the other spawns in a map, having the variants gives a greater illusion that the game is more random and less predictable...this obviously works less and less the older the community gets.

    I suppose another reason is different killer powers interact differently with how strong or not each map variant is for them, and the sane us obviously true for perks on both sides... it's likely an attempt to mitigate how influential map offerings are for both sides.

    Ideally in a Utopian world all map variants would be equally fun and engaging, however there is an obvious tax of maintenance for that and I suppose the question is are the above 2 points (perceived randomness and map offering strength) worthwhile sacrifices to make the maps more learnable and consistent, as well as easier to maintain?

  • Member Posts: 1,863

    Imo, yes.

    Randomness can still happen on all of these maps (aside Badham) and the confusion caused by the variants hurts players more than it helps (although that is just my opinion)

    The abusability of certain maps via map offerings has a solution, and it's adding new maps into existing realms (now yes, the variants do that, but to a lesser extent).

    Take Greenville Square as an example. After it got added (and people figured out the great 3-gen spawns), I have not seen the offering for the realm at all.

  • Member Posts: 3,387

    I really like that we have map variants, what I would really like is for them to add variants that favour the opposite side. So we get current Haddonfield AND one of the older ones, current Eyrie plus another smaller one that favours killer.

    Then if someone plays an offering they don't know if it will benefit them or not.

  • Member Posts: 751

    I agree makes 0 sense imo why this is a thing and there is 0 differences specially with badham

  • Member Posts: 1,863

    There are differences. The layout of the buildings is different. On the other side tho, who even cares or notices? I certainly don't.

  • Member Posts: 751

    Oh yeah I honestly could tell the difference or judt font notice lol. Unlike garden of joy that spawn either a gazebo or a green house

  • Member Posts: 209

    Yes!!! I wrote about this in the most recent community survey. I'm glad to see other people feel the same way. Dead by Daylight feels so "same-y" and boring because of the variants. We have the Blue Woods, the Green Woods, the Orange Farm and 5 versions of Poop Preschool. I haven't played with the Realm Prevention System yet to have an opinion, but the game used to be very stale.

  • Member Posts: 1,863

    Honestly, my dream would be a killer sided map in the Forsaken Boneyard realm that would stop all the toxic people from sending me there.

  • Member Posts: 212

    I only partly agree. My issue is that due to variantions they have a bigger chance of being selected. So like since there are 5 Badhams, the chance of going there is 5/59. However there is only 1 Dead Dawg Saloon. So the odds of going there are. is only 1/59.

    I think they should keep them, but make it so that they count as the same map for Map selection. So instead of Badham 1 to 5 all counting as 5 seperate maps that all have their own chance of being selected there is 1 Badham-option that has the same chance of being selected as one sole map, like Dead Dawg, and if it is selected you randomly get 1 out of the 5 possible maps.

  • Member Posts: 5,498

    I dont hope bHVR stops making Map variants, its great diffrence in gameplay.

  • Member Posts: 968

    No, I rather wanna have one fair balanced map instead of one killer- and survivor-sided map because it is just unfun and means little when you play/win on a map that favours your side. Winning on Eyrie as a survivor means nothing because you get carried by the map. Same goes for killers and their best maps.

    The developers should focus on reworking the existing maps into fair balanced maps for both sides so you can fun and prove your skills.

  • Member Posts: 2,727

    The only even remotely compelling reason to remove them was that map prevention system would not work for variants however now that map protection has been changed into realm protection, this is no longer a reason.

    The maps are weighted to have similar appearance rates to a single map with no variants, badham historally has a weighting that is significantly lower than other maps. These variants create additional gameplay variety, and now that there is realm protection instead of map protection there is pretty much zero reason to remove them, and yes people can tell apart the badham variants, they all have a very distinct shape, just because you haven't bothered to learn that doesn't mean that's the case for everyone.

  • Member Posts: 1,280

    I hate these and REALLY hope they remove them. Just pick the most balanced one of each to keep and axe the rest.

    They're an artificial barrier to entry for new players and make learning maps unreasonably difficult. Heck even as a longtime player, I absolutely could not tell you the differences between Badham I-V. All I know is that the buildings shuffle around, but which is which? Who knows.

    Not to mention it throws an unnecessary spanner in the works of map balance. Issues in DbD get addressed at an absolutely GLACIAL pace. All the variants have done is add more to the backlog with no obvious benefit. Some of the balance on the variants is just way off.

    It's another in a long line of examples of BHVR making changes noone asked for.

  • Member Posts: 1,280

    These variants create additional gameplay variety

    Which would be fine if it didn't come at the cost of map balance, but this is DbD we're talking about and they never get this right. There's so many maps in dire need of changes that they should not be wasting time making variants and instead focus on making the maps we have good. We can add all the variants we want AFTER we no longer have disasters like Haddonfield (which is on it's 3rd? iteration and is still horrible).

    people can tell apart the badham variants, they all have a very distinct shape, just because you haven't bothered to learn that doesn't mean that's the case for everyone

    These forums never miss an opportunity to try and pull a "skill issue" on casual players. Please, this is tired. 99.9% of players do not know the difference between the Badham maps and they're never going to. The game needs to be balanced with the majority in mind.

  • Member Posts: 2,727

    The map balance ship has already sailed, maps are never going to be balanced in DBD. New maps are added faster than they rework old maps and even when they do rework old maps half of the time they create new problems or fail to resolve problems that previously existed. BHVR's mapping team either doesn't care about or doesn't understand enough about balancing to reliably improve the balance of these maps. Look at haddonfield, how many times have they had to go back and update it, and it's still a terrible map.

  • Member Posts: 1,863

    The gameplay variety they give is not that big, imho.

    I mean, who asked for MORE MacMillan maps when there are 5 already?

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